The other day I overheard part of an interesting conversation about the possibility of moving the Amtrak train station from its present location in downtown Davis to the Nishi property, which is being discussed as a possible location for housing or a small business park.
One idea apparently would be, instead of attempting a Measure J vote which would be fraught with risk – particularly along the lines of Richards Blvd. access, to give the land to UC Davis and part of the use would be a train station at that location.
There are a number of potential advantages there. First, a large percentage of the Amtrak station users are either people who commute from out of town to take advantage of the parking or people connected with the university – students, staff, and faculty. This would be a tremendous advantage for them, they would simply be able to enter the university near Mondavi and the Hotel and Conference Center, and do their business.
While the area would be difficult to access from Richards, commuters and the buses would have easy access through the University I-80 off-ramp.
Nishi remains easily within walking distance of the Davis Downtown.
The only really notable downside for the Davis community that uses the train station is that they would have to access the station from the UC Davis campus rather than the downtown.
However, there are also advantages for Davis. First, it would free up the huge area that is presently the train station. Parking has long been a concern in that area as many commuters drive to Davis to utilize its free parking. There has been talk about a new downtown parking facility, and this could be the location for that parking facility.
There might be additional space for some development of new business and entertainment locations, as well.
Having good transportation near the campus would enhance the area as a place for business startups. There would be additional space to build out research and other facilities associated with the university, with easy access to both I-80 and the train lines.
The Nishi property has long been a temptation to the city of Davis – nestled on the north side of Richards Blvd. between I-80 and the railroad tracks, the project is enticingly close to the city.
However, within that temptation are pitfalls, particularly since the property is outside the current city limits and thus requires a Measure J vote. Traffic issues plague access on the Richards Blvd. side, and access via UC Davis would require some sort of crossing above or beneath the railroad tracks.
In November, the council approved funding for half of the costs for predevelopment work for the Nishi property.
Some have seen this as an ideal location for high-density housing with close proximity to the downtown and university. Others see it as less amenable to housing, as Richards Blvd. presents access problems, and more appropriate as a location for some economic development, with it being across the street from the emerging area where the university houses the hotel conference center and the Mondavi Center.
In November, the council stopped short of committing fully to spending more than one third of a million on predevelopment planning for the Nishi property, and instead agreed to check in with staff at $100,000 or six months – whichever comes first.
The city would spend up to $350,000 for environmental planning and public outreach processes.
The city staff argues that funds would come from already-budgeted monies from the Downtown Area Revitalization Fund.
Staff wrote, “The current budget includes an allocation for core area parking improvements that will not be expended this year. Staff anticipates that the City Council will evaluate options for core area parking with the 2013-14 budget, upon completion of the downtown parking task force effort, or as other opportunities arise.”
The costs for infrastructure will be shared equally. The city and developer “will work together to explore financing alternatives, including alternatives for construction and maintenance of infrastructure” and “will work together with UCD in all planning efforts including negotiating access to UCD sewer, water, fiber optic, fire, and, if applicable, drainage services.”
If residential density is greater than 30 units per acre gross, there would be no affordable housing obligation or fees.
But the approach of moving the train station to the university might allow the city to both develop Nishi in ways that do not impact the already heavily-congested Richards Blvd. area, allow for modest economic development at Nishi, and allow the city to redesign the current Amtrak train station to provide for parking and additional business.
Is there a downside to moving the train station to campus, other than affecting the convenience of those who utilize the station and who would have to go to the university campus for access?
—David M. Greenwald reporting
My initial thought is that another downside would be the loss of the train station as a direct access to the downtown area and businesses for people entering Davis by train. This might represent a loss in terms of the overall integration of the City of Davis and the University. I am saying this as a resident of Old East Davis seeing this as a major shift in the nature of the downtown and surrounding neighborhoods.
Obviously this is a reaction off the top of my head and I would be interested in the thoughts of downtown residents and business owners.
This is a very creative idea. It would finally provide access to the Nishi location in a way that would establish a transportation hub exactly where it is needed, i.e. at the nexus of rail and vehicular traffic with immediate access to campus and downtown. This would then draw in appropriate development. It would also expand the core business area in an attractive location – at the current station – which could generate much needed revenue for the city. It does raise a question about the ongoing use of tracks currently in use and the possibility of diverting that traffic from the station area.
I don’t think the property owner would be interested, since I believe development plans are going forward. So the real question is: [quote]I overheard part of an interesting conversation[/quote]
–who did you overhear having this conversation? Was it a person relevant to the development of Nishi? If not, what’s the point of this conversation?
The Davis Amtrak station stands proudly and beautifully in its historic location facing Second Street. It is a major reason the “Davis Downtown” is a downtown at all. As a working connection to the rest of the world it predates the University Farm that became UCD. It is a key landmark representing of the heart of Davis. The transport hub of which this station is a vital part should remain right where it is, the comings and goings of passengers feeding immediately and directly into the vitality and economy of the city. Moving the Davis station away from the city core to a spot adjacent to the expanding UCD hotel and conference center would be a monumental mistake, exacerbating the original unfortunate decision of UCD in the late ’90s to build these economic generators away from the Davis urban core. NOTE: UCD talked of a shuttle between them and the downtown but it never happened. Relegating the Davis train station to a southern outpost in the shadow of the I-80 Freeway would be regretted forever. Those whose conversations about such a travesty are “overheard” and now bandied about by anonymous bloggers should step forward into the full light of open debate and identify themselves.
Ken Wagstaff
David wrote:
> The city would spend up to $350,000 for environmental
> planning and public outreach processes.
I would be interested in getting the details on what the city is getting for our $350K (and the names of the people/firms getting the money to do “environmental planning and public outreach”).
When I was involved with politics in the Bay Area it was amazing how many times I saw a $50K EIR report given to a firm that would kick back half of the money to the people that approved it (and have some $1K a month interns do the new report in a couple weeks).
Is UCD probing for a land handout to continue their construction orgy?
And on the comment about Nishi being at the nexus of transportation, why would the Train Station move out of the Nexus of the Three Train Tracks in Davis?
I totally agree with Ken Wagstaff. I can’t tell you how many times I was sitting outside at the pizza place or the mexican diner and saw families and couples getting off the train and walking straight to the downtown core area who had obviously just rode the train in to enjoy our beautiful downtown.
Moving the train station is a great idea if and only if it would have a new highway exit. Trying to direct all train commuter traffic through the existing surface roads on the south edge of campus would be a disaster. But, with a dedicated exit and a PAID daily parking structure (perhaps only for non-Davis residents?), the city could mint a small fortune by making it easier for area commuters to get to and from the Bay.
As for the argument that the train is a hub encouraging shoppers to go downtown, I can virtually assure you that is not the case any longer. My former employer owned the Gallery at Market East in Philadelphia – a three story shopping mall directly above the subway AND commuter light rails. Only the shops that stood between the trains and the parking/street access made any money – literally 100 yards farther away, or one story up, had exponentially less sales. The third floor of the mall got no traffic whatsoever, and it was only two escalator rides away. Commuters don’t go out of their way, even a little. But commuters will pay for convenience, and for parking!
[quote]Should the Davis Amtrak Move to the UC Davis Campus?
Written by David Greenwald [/quote]
No.
[quote]Is there a downside to moving the train station to campus, other than affecting the convenience of those who utilize the station and who would have to go to the university campus for access?[/quote]
Yes, many.
David, please answer this question when bringing up any issue on your blog: “What is the problem that we are trying to solve?” Then, write your articles with your point of view. It enhances the discussion.
1. Is the problem that we need more parking downtown so you see the Amtrak parking lot as a solution? I see another parking structure as yet another opportunity to have my car broken into and burgled. If the parking situation is problematic because of out-of-town parkers, then let Yolo County residents pick up a resident parking pass at the Amtrak station to park free and require any car without a sticker to pay the same fee as charged in Sacramento. That is a cheaper solution than moving the station.
2. Is the problem that most riders have UC as their destination and they don’t like the short walk to campus? Those people should feel fortunate they have a built in daily exercise and be appreciative of the current location. I have observed those folks buying stuff along their walk like coffee, pizza slices, dodging into a shoe store, waiting for the next train in a bar or restaurant, etc. Moving the station would likely result in a reduction of downtown commerce.
3. Is the problem the development of the Nishi property? The Nishi property is “enticingly close to the city” and thus within easy walking distance of the current Amtrak station. The owners of the Nishi property need to figure out what development works on their parcel that takes advantage of city services, including the Amtrak station.
The Amtrak station is one of the few things downtown that is exactly placed where it should be at the intersection of three tracks.
Ken Wagstaff said it so well, above, I’d like to repeat it:
[quote]The Davis Amtrak station stands proudly and beautifully in its historic location facing Second Street. It is a major reason the “Davis Downtown” is a downtown at all. As a working connection to the rest of the world it predates the University Farm that became UCD. It is a key landmark representing of the heart of Davis. The transport hub of which this station is a vital part should remain right where it is, the comings and goings of passengers feeding immediately and directly into the vitality and economy of the city. Moving the Davis station away from the city core to a spot adjacent to the expanding UCD hotel and conference center would be a monumental mistake, exacerbating the original unfortunate decision of UCD in the late ’90s to build these economic generators away from the Davis urban core. [/quote]
[quote]–who did you overhear having this conversation? Was it a person relevant to the development of Nishi? If not, what’s the point of this conversation? [/quote]
Don: I think you know me well enough to know that I intentionally phrased it to be vague on this.
[quote]David, please answer this question when bringing up any issue on your blog: “What is the problem that we are trying to solve?” Then, write your articles with your point of view. It enhances the discussion. [/quote]
In this case, I overheard the discussion and wanted to see how people reacted to it.
Many people bike to the train station to commute to Sacramento or the Bay Area. Being out in the Nishi boonies may discourage a lot of them, or at least send them into their cars to get to the train station, which then becomes less appealing. While buses go to Sac they have to be subsidized, are largely full at their current levels (at least the ones near me), and do not appeal to people who get bus sick or who prefer a 20 minute train ride to a 50 minute bus ride.
I guess you could survey train riders about where they live and what they would do. I like it where it is because I live in East Davis and can walk to the train in half an hour, very convenient for visiting and receiving family without organizing a driver to drop off or pick up people.
Plus I love the historic train station building being used as a train station.
” Being out in the Nishi boonies “
Just to clarify, Nishi is less than a mile from the current train station by bike.
From what I have read over the years, working with Southern Pacific can be as difficult as trying to “turn the Titanic”. Good luck on that!
[quote]Plus I love the historic train station building being used as a train station. [/quote] Me, too. 🙂
I’m not going to pretend to know what’s best for Davis…all I do know is I love that building, and it’s such a special way for people to arrive into Davis.
That being said, I’ve always thought that triangular bit of land there created by the railroad tracks would be a fabulous place for a European-type town square—err, triangle. I imagine the interior dotted with umbrellas for outdoor dining while the buildings around perimeter architecturally mimic the gorgeous train station.
In my fantasy world, parking isn’t an issue. 🙂
What if the northern line gets re-routed out of Davis? Why not add an amtrak stop with a side track and extra parking at Nishi providing easy access to UCD and making the new development train centered while keeping the downtown station? Two stations could be better than one. What about security/public safety? What about moving PG&E to Nishi and developing housing at PG&E? Of course i have no input to what the owners do so it is obvious that whoever happened to blab around David wanted this to get out as some sort of trial balloon. Its an interesting idea but what would we do at the existing train station? Are we going to pave paradise and put up a parking lot? That is the one outcome I would oppose.
“From what I have read over the years, working with Southern Pacific can be as difficult…”
Of course Union Pacific the company that took over Southern Pacific in 1996 isn’t easy to negotiate with either.
Mr Toad wrote:
> What if the northern line gets re-routed out of Davis?
Has anyone heard anything about the idea of moving the Northern Line east of town and turning the current right of way in to a bike lane to Woodland?
I don’t see any benefit in moving the train station. A lot of money was spent adding art, landscaping and renovating it a few years back.
It is an iconic structure set within an important historical location in town. Google “Davis, CA” and you’ll likely see images of the train station.
I don’t anyone egotistical enough to try and attempt something like you have suggested.
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“Is there a downside to moving the train station to campus, other than affecting the convenience of those who utilize the station . . . “
The question is the answer. In 1925, Sacramento moved their train station platforms 1000′ closer to downtown so passengers could walk easier. In 2012, Sacramento moved the platforms out to where they used to be, adding over 1000′ to the walk. This caused connecting buses to add 5-20 minutes to their schedules to give passengers time to make the walk, connecting trains to be moved 5 minutes in their schedules, the distance to light rail transfers increasing from 200 feet to over 1000 feet, etc. The result is a 5-10% decrease in ridership at the station and the associated loss of revenue along with some of those people transferring back to automobiles for their transportation. Increased transfer times, inconvenience and increased overall trip times decrease ridership.
Davis has a centralized downtown station. Some cities would love to have this. “Nishi is less than a mile from the current train station by bike.” Many people would still make the bike ride, but some would not, and it does not take a large percentage drop in ridership to render a service less economical and return some people to automobiles. The point is, convenience is THE POINT in public transportation planning, not ‘they should still be able to do it’. As convenience drops, so does ridership. For the disabled, convenience is not optional, it is essential. Meeting ADA requirements does not equal convenience for the disabled.
Nishi is not convenient in any way. Past proposals to move the station to a UC Davis location at least had the station on the campus side of the tracks. Any access to Nishi will now require an over-or-under-crossing, at considerable expense, and adding time to access to campus. A look at a map shows Nishi is no longer centralized to Davis, but adjacent on the south mostly to open fields. Access to east, north and west Davis requires additional mileage. Those arguing the additional mile by bike is no big deal may try riding a mile by bike in the rain and answer again. Many who will ride in the summer will not ride in the winter.
While commuters may have a set pattern and leave downtown without buying a donut, the trains serving Davis also serve many people visiting Davis on pleasure trips or one-off business trips. These people often pass through downtown and leave some dollars in the pockets of downtown businesses as they walk/bike/taxi through downtown on the way to campus or elsewhere. Much of this benefit to downtown would be lost with this remote station. Shuttle buses use fuel. Longer driving for those driving the extra distance uses more fuel. Driving to the Bay Area or Sacramento by those who find the station inconvenient increases the use of fuel. Taxis for those who can no longer walk to their final destination use more fuel. Remote stations are therefore less green. (1 of 2)
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Any new station will require implementation of the new station specifications which require overhead or underground access to all tracks and platforms for passengers, and ADA spec elevators to reach these remote platforms. There is also a need to move the tracks, as specs require all new stations must allow for a future four-track railway. These requirements mean that any new station will be extremely expensive. For example, the Peabody Road station near Vacaville that will meet these new specs is estimated to cost in the $40-$55 million range. Pause for effect. Still want to consider this new station? Unless the unduly-influential-powerful-politician-with-access-to-federal-funds fairy blesses Davis, this station will never be built.
About parking: much of the Nishi property would need to be reserved for parking for train riders. Alternatives to driving? Less likely at such a remote location for many. Parking structure at Nishi? Look at the cost-per-space of parking structure spaces. Not likely. Therefore, much of the Nishi land would be unavailable for other development, and thus lost to economic opportunity. As for using the parking lot space at the old station for a parking structure — it is not going to happen. The station is not moving — it is historic. Therefore, the only land available is the parking lot itself, an odd shape on a small block of land. Due to the limited size and odd shape, much of the structure would be ramps and the cost-per-space likely much higher than a block oriented structure. A good location only in theory, not in practicality.
Union Pacific would probably support the station, as it would take the station platforms off the curve in the main line, which is potentially a safety issue. However, Union Pacific would probably not give much in the way of any support for this position besides supporting someone else paying for the station, their usual corporate stance. Two stations in Davis rather than closing downtown? Not going to happen. There is not going to be a second station less than a mile from another intercity Amtrak station. Intercity rail does not work with such close spacing and it goes against new-station protocol for the Capitol Corridor.
Bottom line is, a centralized transportation center is ideal for Davis alternative transportation, and this we have. Sacramento has demonstrated for us what happens when a station is made even mildly more inconvenient for users. Convenience is everything in public transportation. Spending tens of millions of dollars to move the station to this less convenient location would not benefit the traveling public nor promote an increase in green transportation infrastructure.
Leave the station location be. Davis should focus instead on improving access to the existing station by shuttle, improved bike access, bike-sharing stations here, adding adjacent parking along Olive Drive, and finding funding for safe pedestrian, bicycle and passenger access to Olive Drive and East Davis.
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Has anyone heard anything about the idea of moving the Northern Line east of town and turning the current right of way in to a bike lane to Woodland?
See April 7, 2013 Davis Enterprise
http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/sunday-best/plan-to-take-the-train-out-of-town-and-the-tracks-with-it/
“That being said, I’ve always thought that triangular bit of land there created by the railroad tracks would be a fabulous place for a European-type town square—err, triangle. I imagine the interior dotted with umbrellas for outdoor dining while the buildings around perimeter architecturally mimic the gorgeous train station. “
That sounds really nice. I’m onboard:-)
“However, there are also advantages for Davis. First, it would free up the huge area that is presently the train station….There has been talk about a new downtown parking facility, and this could be the location for that parking facility.”
David, are you really recommendiing that we bulldoze the beautiful, historic building pictured above in order to put up a parking lot? Or, was that the idea of the folks you overheard?
Sometimes you suspect you know what the answer is going to be but the powers that be need to see it for themselves.
Gandhi?
The way the property is positioned makes it nearly certain that access would have to be via university property. If I owned that land I would be looking to have it removed from the city limits of Davis and try and sell it to the University of California. Those opposed to working with the current owner to develop it within the city should, IMO, be mindful of that possibility if current in city ideas for the property fail.