Education Still Remains a Priority in Davis –
Education Still Remains a Priority in Davis – But within the vast wilderness of California not all villages are equal. If you want to know why Davis still has good schools, why Davis’ children will not be thrown into the water without a life preserver, swimming lessons and at least a fighting chance, look no further than the support we have given our schools above all odds.
In the fall of 2007, in what seemed like just a routine election, the Davis voters with about 70 percent of the vote approved the renewal of the parcel tax, Measure Q. Little did we know at the time, there would be nothing routine about the next two years plus.
Measure Q had barely been certified when the district realized it was in deep trouble and facing a $4 million deficit. There was not another time yet to pass another parcel tax and the district was facing deep layoffs, school closures, cuts to the core of its educational program. The people of Davis said no, not here. And miraculously the Davis Schools Foundation raised $1.7 million which coupled with a better May revise from the state and better than projected enrollment numbers led us to surviving without those deep cuts.
To make that money raised permanent the district put Measure W on the ballot just a year after Measure Q. The polling was ambiguous and it looked like an uphill fight. The naysayers, myself included, questioned whether it could be done and pondered what would happen if it did not. What happened instead is that it did not get 70 percent of the vote like Measure Q, it got 75% of the vote, well past the two-thirds marker. The result was never in doubt on election day.
However, once again, Measure W was barely certified and once again the district faced a multimillion deficit. This time the district was ready for it, but they still had to lay off personnel.
Despite all of this, despite the bad economic times, despite the much lower profile campaign this time around, and despite the seemingly much lower stakes, the Davis Schools Foundation has raised another $643,000 for Davis schools.
The foundation and the district will have to determine how to use this money as the district once again will be facing a budget deficit that only figures to get worse with the budget deal expected to see the short-term cuts for education even as they promise to restore that funding for the long run.
The Davis school district is reluctant to use one-time funding to support ongoing programs, and certainly relying on the continuance of one-time funding has in the past brought about problems, on the other hand, it almost seems like the schools of Davis could raise this money every year.
At this point, the foundation and school district are looking at things like K-6 schools, 7-12 schools, and school safety and support. That seems to cover everything. They mention things such as classroom teachers, teacher’s aides, class size reduction in secondary math and English, counselors and programs that reduce or eliminate the achievement gap.
The Davis community ought to celebrate their commitment to education, but at the same time, one has to add up all of these numbers and then ask yourself, what would have happened without the community support? What will happen to the districts that cannot raise $7 million locally to keep teachers and programs?
Mr. Anderson mentioned the achievement gap–an issue that unfortunately has taken a backseat to the budget crisis. But it remains very real even in Davis.
Earlier this week, a report came out on the achievement gap and found that despite years of expensive academic reforms in California and nationwide, the achievement gap remains. African American students fall well short of academic parity. The gap in 8th grade reading, considered by many to be a bellwether indicator, has stagnated over the past decade although overall African American students across the national have narrowed the achievement gap in math and reading over the past 20 years.
In California, the state did make some gains in close the achievement gap, but the overall score were lower and the size of the achievement gap was wider than the national average.
State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O’Connell recently commented on this problem.
“Ensuring that our economy can thrive once again depends on us having a well trained, analytical and critical thinking workforce. But such a well skilled workforce will be sorely lacking if we don’t take the fundamental step of closing the achievement gap in our schools which leaves far too many of our Latino and African American students academically behind their peers who are white or Asian.”
Mr. O’Connell believes that the achievement gap reflects a failure of our schools rather than a failure of our students. He argued that this gap is a threat to our economy in addition to a threat to the economic future of these students.
“The achievement gap is a real threat to the economic well-being of millions of students as well as to our state and national economies. We have put ourselves in a permanent national recession by failing to close these gaps. A recent study by the consulting group McKinsey & Company found that the loss of economic output due to the achievement gap is greater than all the revenue lost to our economy in the current recession.”
And while we remain in difficult economic times, we cannot allow the current budget crisis prevent us from addressing our educational priorities.
It is here that Davis stands out above all else, because we have not allowed the current economic downturn prevent us from putting money into education. And yet, even in Davis, African-American and Latino students have done considerably force than their white and Asian counterparts. The startling fact is that gap holds even when controlling for education of the parent, which is generally the best control variable in such models. Thus even the children of college educated African-American and Hispanic parents perform worse than white and Asian children of the same background. That is a vexing problem and one that we must collectively solve.
Unlike the bleak picture however across the state, this morning I have hope and confidence that in Davis we will find a way to do so. We will lead the way on education. At the same time, we must recognize that many in the rest of the state are not so fortunate and that we must find a way to educate all of our children if we wish for them to have a fighting chance at success in life.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
What’s the state of the achievement gap in Davis?
“African-American and Latino students have done considerably worse than their white and Asian counterparts….that gap holds even when controlling for education of the parent… Thus even the children of college educated African-American and Hispanic parents perform worse than white and Asian children of the same background..”
Those are very strong allegations to throw around. Do you have any data other than anecdoatal heresay that will support this?
David: The “achievement gap” remains a quandry nationwide,and I certainly don’t have a ready-made solution. What piqued my interest on the local level, though, was your link to Davis citizens’ support for our schools.
At some point (and maybe we’re close), we must ask ourselves whether it is better to support our schools by pouring taxes into a black hole (mined by “middle-men” administrators and “trustees”) or stop the taxes and donate equal amounts to an independent body, such as the “Davis Schools’ Foundation.
Even as we read daily about the financial perils facing our schools, we see entire schools shut-down, huge numbers of “temporary, portable” classrooms abandoned, and teacher lay-offs.
So, what is your solution? We all pay more? I don’t think so. Sooner or later, we will all reach the limits of what we can pay. One of the biggest problems among the City, State and (in this case),the School District is “compartmentalization” of funds.
Have you ever wondered why, even though we pass one tax after another to support our schools. we never seem to have enough tax dollars to pay our teachers, counselors and groundskeepers? In my opinion, it’s quite simple (there I go again). We should not be passing our taxes into the hands of “trustees,” who aspire to build buildings. Rather, I think we should donate our money directly to a “cause,” such as the Davis Schools’ Foundation” to be sure our money is spent to improve our schools.
Perhaps this seems dramatic, but maybe it’s time to make a dramatic change. Think about this quote @ the City level by a local politician, asked to summarize the tenure of passed-Mayor, Julie Partansky: “She never built anything.”
Can you imagine such a mind-set? Well, that’s what we’re facing here and now. Julie built something much more enduring than a damn building; she built a VILLAGE.
So, perhaps we should just vote NO on the upcoming school tax renewals and give our money directly to the School Foundation. I’ll certnly pay my fair share, and possibly more if I know it’s being spent on teachers & students, rather than unnecessary, abandoned buildings and structures.
Jim: here’s a link to the recently released study from IES
Achievement Gap Study ([url]http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/studies/gaps/[/url])
“At some point (and maybe we’re close), we must ask ourselves whether it is better to support our schools by pouring taxes into a black hole (mined by “middle-men” administrators and “trustees”) or stop the taxes and donate equal amounts to an independent body, such as the “Davis Schools’ Foundation.”
The typical, mythic, and blind “schools suck, blame it on a bloated administration”. Some folks have a pathologically negative view of the world.
DSF’s own research info pointed out that California already has one of the lowest ratios of administrators to students (few administrators to a whole lot of students), and Davis has an even lower ratio.
If you’re looking for a place in America where things are any better in this respect, you’ll be hard-pressed to find it.
The Serrano v. Priest CA State Supreme Court decisions from 1971-1977 were meant to equalize school funding – taking it from a property tax base to a per-pupil base so rich districts would not out spend poor districts in facilities and programs. From the 80s on, however, as state funding was cut, districts that could raise their own funds, like Davis, did. What do we do about this larger issue of fairness and democracy in education?
Nancy Price
I totally agree with David that Davis has one of the nicest school districts in the state. It has a great commitment to public education. Whether that commitment is optimally directed is a question, but there is no question that the commitment is there.
If I had to name what I like best about the Davis school district, it is that older students can enroll in so many classes by qualification rather than by grade. Mathematics is done by readiness tests from grade 7 onward. The high school schedule is as flexible as a university schedule, and it has a great list of AP classes. Giving students choices within each school — more so than the all-or-nothing choice of switching schools entirely — is essential to educational fulfillment.
If anything, the district could benefit from even more mix-and-match choices. More students could bicycle between the junior high schools and the high school, or between the high school and the university. And the junior high schools could have more options and readiness tests, following the lead of the high school.
Minimizing the achievement gap obviously isn’t an overnight endeavor. But I think the state of California and many other states have moved backwards from any gains with recent budget cuts to education. We won’t know the full effect of this for the next two years when standardized tests are compiled and analyzed nationwide.
But if any district has the potential to reduce the achievement gap in coming years, I would think DJUSD would have to be it.
Assuming that the school experience in Davis is roughly equal for all students, then one element of the achievement gap could be attributed to differences in the students’ daily after-school experiences.
It’s not rocket science to see that a student who has a full time parent taking them to classes, tutors, music and sports, is likely to achieve more academically than a student whose family doesn’t have the resources or time for all that enrichment. This isn’t about how great the school system is here. It’s about the capacity of Davis parents – or at least some of them – to maximize what the schools offer through after school enrichment. This also isn’t about knocking working parents (I am one) – it’s about realizing that schools cannot and do not do it all. The day that the Davis school foundation can fund similar after-school experiences in sports, music and tutoring for ALL Davis kids will be the day we see the achievement gap narrowing quickly.
Putting more money into the schools is not the answer.
Hey, “Bubba,” think you’re a bit short of paddles in the canoe, or maybe you just can’t read. I’m not opposed to school funding in any way, and I certainly don’t have “a mythical or pathologically negative” view of my life our City or our schools.
I merely suggested that we need a dramatic overhaul in how our taxes and donations are being used @ the local school-district level. Seems to me we’ve been closing schools, abandoning “critically-needed” temporary classrooms and reading one story after another about teacher layoffs and increasing class sizes. That doesn’t seem to be a good use of our money.
Well, Bubba, if you have a better solution or proposal, then let’s hear it. I gave an opinion, and you responded with nothing but a personal attack on me. That certainly solves our funding problems, doesn’t it?
You must be one of the smartest people in town. Attack anyone who offers a different view and eventually you’ll wear them down & silence them. Sorry, “Bubba,” but that won’t work with me. I have lived here and helped fund our schools for 34 years, and have no intention of leaving.
On the other hand, if you feel threatened by mythical, “pathologically negative” citizens in Davis, who care enough to voice an opinion, perhaps you need a furlough. Might I suggest Fresno? There you can link with your original namesake “Bubba” (Skinner, aka Alan Autry) and perhaps fill his shoes by becoming the next mayor of Fresno. (I’ll donate a portion of my school taxes towards your one-way bus ticket.) Have a great trip!
Some of us have been saying all along that the community should be focusing on DSF and raising money to make up for the budget shortfall, rather than attempting to strong-arm teachers into taking pay cuts, or just giving up, or promoting refurbishment of the DHS athletic fields. I don’t really understand why you would twist this article, which is an opportunity to create more support and enthusiasm for the DSF fundraising activities, into being about the achievement gap. We have more direct and solvable issues to deal with in maintaining Davis’s high qualit of education right now.
It’s still not enough money to save jobs, so I don’t see that this vindicates your view. Teachers were not strong armed into doing anything, they had a choice, they chose their own pay over other people’s jobs. I don’t consider that commendable. I lost a lot of respect for teacher’s unions this year and I have traditionally been very sympathetic. I still support education very strongly, but you should remember that in the future, it might come to bear.
[quote]From the 80s on, however, as state funding was cut, districts that could raise their own funds, like Davis, did. What do we do about this larger issue of fairness and democracy in education? [/quote] I’ve looked into this question and from the data I have seen, the presumptions in your question are untrue. With very few exceptions in California — really, only 3 wealthy school districts — the education funding tends to favor (on a per capita basis) the lower-performing, poorer schools. The two largest factors for this are 1. Federal Title I funds and 2. Much, much more in Special Ed categoricals.
Second, you write that state funding for education “was cut” in the 1980s and beyond, but that is incorrect. If you adjust for inflation, the per capital funding in 2005 in California was more than double the per capita funding in 1988. Keep in mind that we have much higher tax rates, (up until the recent recession) much higher real-dollar incomes, and because of Prop 98, we have had a very long period of prioritizing K-14 education funding in California.
ANON writes: [i]”This isn’t about how great the school system is here. It’s about the capacity of Davis parents – or at least some of them – to maximize what the schools offer through after school enrichment.” [/i]
ANON, in my opinion, hits on the largest factor which differentiates achievement among students: the parents. However, it’s not just enrichment activities, which favor those who get them; it is parental involvement in the child’s schooling as well. Parents who act as overseers to their children’s teachers don’t have kids who fall behind because their kid got stuck for a year with a crummy teacher. Those parents figure out what is wrong and sometimes move their kids to different classrooms. They pay attention to their kids homework assignments. They help their kids with homework or find tutors who can. They sometimes use professsional services like Sylvan Learning Centers when their kids are struggling in some area. If their kids are lazy — which I certainly was and probably most kids would be if allowed — they push their kids to give a better effort in school. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, those involved kinds of parents have higher expectations for their children and their children’s schools, and the kids and the school often follow by achieving up to the levels of expectation.
By contrast, uninvolved parents will often do none of those things or only hapnazzardly pay attention and in cases where they don’t have high expectations for their kids or the schools, the kids and the schools only reach levels of achievement which are what is expected of them at a lower level.
Because it is (in my opinion) largely a byproduct of the culture and behavior of parents, and not just the schools, the so-called achievement gap* is impossible to solve by school changes alone.
*I don’t know if it has been studied well, but my anecdotal observation is that if you look at the achievement of “black” children whose parents were raised in some Caribbean countries or in many African countries and compared that with so-called white Americans, I bet you would find the achievement gap is just the reverse: the black children from those cultural backgrounds do better in school than the whites, because those immigrant parents (generally) have higher expectations than most white Americans have.
“The day that the Davis school foundation can fund similar after-school experiences in sports, music and tutoring for ALL Davis kids will be the day we see the achievement gap narrowing quickly.”
I don’t think that DSF is focusing on trying to add after school experiences. But there are plenty of parent and civic groups who are trying to fill in the deficiencies you mention — Davis Bridge Foundation offers after school tutoring to at risk students, at least one music booster group funding private lessons to those who can’t afford it, many sports and music groups offering scholarships/funding to group/team members who can’t afford the full expenses, etc. They are programs that are always seeking ways to be more accessible. It won’t all happen overnight, but there are signs that it is improving student access and success.
“With very few exceptions in California — really, only 3 wealthy school districts — the education funding tends to favor (on a per capita basis) the lower-performing, poorer schools.”
There are school districts where property tax assessments are high enough to fund the entire local education system without any additional “revenue limit” money provided by the state government. Those districts receive no additional money from the state, but get to keep all of the property tax revenue they’re entitled to, even if it gives them extra money. Those districts are described as “basic aid” districts (the term “basic aid” almost suggests some sort of struggling district, but that’s definitely not the case). There are about 60 such districts out of ~1000 in California. ~Half are in the Bay area; I know of none in the Sacramento area.
They are usually smaller, more affluent communities with a relatively low percentage of students attending public school. Almost all of these fund at a higher than average rate per student, and many of them have no problems passing school parcel taxes on top of that. These districts are not so vulnerable to the state budget as DJUSD is. Some examples of such districts are Palo Alto, Los Gatos, Piedmont, Carmel, Bolinas, Orinda, and Woodside. I concede that DJUSD is privileged compared to most other districts in California, but Davis is middle class compared to these other communities. These districts don’t have the same kinds of funding anxieties that most other districts have.
I wonder exactly what the money the DSF raised is going to be spent on? Remember, it is the DJUSD that gets to decide, not DSF. And as we have seen, in the middle of an economic crisis, DJUSD decided to give Colby a raise and refurbish the DHS stadium. Personally, I did not give a dime to DSF. My three kids graduated from UCD with science degrees IN SPITE OF the Davis public school system, NOT BECAUSE OF IT. Why? Because my kids had learning problems and did not fit the Davis “norm”.
I’ll tell you why there is an achievement gap. If your kid fits a preconceived norm, has no learning disabilities or other such problems, and are of the proper socio-economic class w parents that are “properly educated”, your kid will do just fine. If not – your kid will be warehoused in special classes with all the other “troublemakers”, and be left in the dust.
I’m a former teacher, and was not rewarded for good teaching – even tho my kids tested considerably higher than those of other teachers who had supposedly smarter kids. To teach kids, it takes going back to the old tried and true method of drill, drill, drill.
“To teach kids, it takes going back to the old tried and true method of drill, drill, drill.”
Maybe that’s what Sarah Palin meant when she said, “drill, baby, drill!”
“in the middle of an economic crisis, DJUSD decided to give Colby a raise and refurbish the DHS stadium. “
They chose at the beginning of the economic crisis to extend his current contract with the annual inflator and then had him take a pay cut.
The DHS stadium bid has been repeated and refuted so many times to the point where you are now being dishonest.
“To teach kids, it takes going back to the old tried and true method of drill, drill, drill.”
Drilling has its place, but to think that will solve all your problems in education or that you can ignore any other teaching strategies is narrow-minded.
Along the same lines as the previous poster, what evidence do you have–empirical evidence–that drill, drill, drill is “tried and true.”
“My three kids graduated from UCD with science degrees IN SPITE OF the Davis public school system, NOT BECAUSE OF IT. Why? Because my kids had learning problems and did not fit the Davis “norm”.
Well, you are to be congratulated as a parent, because I am certain that your positive influence in their lives probably had something to do with it. Parents should be advocates for their kids in school, and you find a lot of that in Davis. If that went on with all kids and parents, then the number of failing kids would be very small.
I got my learning problem kid through the Davis schools by making sure that the school worked for him the best that it could. He was in other school districts before Davis, but we had a much better experience here.
So I’m sure it feels good to trash the Davis schools for your bad experience, but I’m inclined to think that most other school districts would have given you reasons to appreciate Davis schools a little more.
Oh you people are so ignorant. Let me give you an example. I taught many years ago in a tough school. It had kids whose parents were from a shoe factory, a military base, and worked for the gov’t – quite an incongruous mixture. I was fresh out of college and waiting to hear if I would get a job teaching math at the local junior college. Meanwhile I signed up for substitute teaching just in case. I was offered a job on the spot as a full time eighth grade teacher, no training. Since a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush, I took the eighth grade teaching job (I ended up teaching junior college later.) I earned my teaching credentials at night, while I taught school during the day. I taught math to 42 kids at a time in a portable classroom.
I was not allowed to teach the brighter kids. Other more experienced teachers were given the “algebra kids”. I used tried and true methods my grandmother suggested to me – drill on the math tables, mental arithmetic, practice problems. My kids loved my class, because for the first time they began to actually understand math, bc I started at the beginning when necessary. 2/3 of my 8th graders didn’t know their math tables. My slowest class didn’t know their subtraction tables. We drilled on the math tables, and did mental arithmetic at the end of every class.
I was given the slower kids to teach math – 120 of them in all. At the end of the year, I was given 25 tests to give my students (sent over from the high school), to see if they were capable of going on to Algebra the next year in high school. I demanded to know why all my kids couldn’t be tested, and raised a stink. With much grumbling, 85 tests were handed to me – enough to test my top 3 out of 4 math classes (I taught 2 special classes in addition to the core math course). Out of the 85, 82 scored high enough to go on to Algebra – much, much higher than the teachers who had the brighter kids!
However, I had to find out surreptitiously, how my kids did in comparison to the other teachers’ students. Not a single other teacher would talk to me about it, and a special meeting was held about the matter, that I was not invited to. However, a friend of mine did attend, and made the discovery that my kids’ scored significantly higher than the other teachers’ children, and reported this remarkable discovery back to me. All the other math teachers were privy to my kids’ scores, but I was not allowed to see theirs. Why? Because the other teachers were embarrassed as all get out, and could not figure how it happened. I was not praised for my success, just as Escalante was not for his success in teaching inner city youth Calculus.
Three years later I began teaching math at the local junior college. I was also asked to man the math lab one to two nights a week. Students would wait until it was my night to man the lab to come in and ask questions. In consequence, students would be lined up out the door, through the lab and out into the hall, sometimes waiting an entire hour for help. No other instructor garnered this kind of attendance record. The junior college management was devastated when I had to leave.
When my kids went through the Davis school system, I had to constantly supplement at home, bc they were not even getting the basics. By the time my eldest daughter reached senior high school, she could not tell me what a paragraph was! My son, who had learning disabilities, was just warehoused w the troublemakers, and then picked on. He was beat up on graduation day by gang members who constantly harassed him in school.
Yet all three of my children graduated from UCD with science degrees, DESPITE THE LOUSY EDUCATION THEY RECEIVED IN THE DAVIS SCHOOLS. And they succeeded bc I DRILLED THEM AT HOME, SOMETHING THE SCHOOLS REFUSED TO DO. Practice problems, teaching the basics, mental games are one of the best ways to teach kids just about anything. Try it sometime. You might be amazed at how well it works.
And sorry, but I don’t think giving Bruce Colby a raise was the right thing to do in the beginning of an economic crisis. Nor do I think renovating DHS stadium was the way to spend facilities money. IMHO, it was a collosal waste of scarce funds. There are many in Davis who agree with me, and many who don’t. So when did it become a crime to express an opinion contrary to your own?
“I’m inclined to think that most other school districts would have given you reasons to appreciate Davis schools a little more.”
I used to have friends who taught in inner city LA and I have spent some time in the classrooms here, no comparison.
I was “A Former Teacher”:
“I was fresh out of college “
No offense but how long ago was this?
“And sorry, but I don’t think giving Bruce Colby a raise was the right thing to do in the beginning of an economic crisis.”
He wasn’t given a raise.
“Nor do I think renovating DHS stadium was the way to spend facilities money.”
Really–you’d let your children run on that field?
“No offense but how long ago was this?”
Now what possible difference could this make? If drill on math tables, mental arithmetic, practice problems worked in my grandmother’s day, worked in my day, why would it suddenly not work now? Have you tried it? Maybe you should. You might learn something.
“He wasn’t given a raise.”
Yes he was, then had it taken away bc it looked bad to be giving out raises as teachers were being laid off.
“Really–you’d let your children run on that field?”
In my day, there was no stadium, and the fields were in no better shape, and we did just fine. Kids these days are spoiled rotten, and so are their parents! I taught 42 kids in a portable classroom, and thought nothing of it.
“Now what possible difference could this make?”
What makes you think that practice problems are not being used now? How do you know what I have or have not tried? Every math course I have taken and every statistical course I have taught uses practice problems. But memorization is not the same thing as understanding math. I would probably suggest there is another reason for it.
Moreover, you seem to suggest that because we have gone away from this method (I disagree that we have), that we have worse outcomes. I disagree that we have worse outcomes.
“Yes he was, then had it taken away bc it looked bad to be giving out raises as teachers were being laid off. “
He was not given a raise, his contract was extended for three years.
You didn’t answer my question which was whether you would allow your kids to run on that track. It is irrelevant that you did not have a stadium when you taught and that you did just fine with that. These days a track team is required to have a track, thousands of children ran on it each year, hundreds of children played football on the field each year, thousands of fans go into the stands each year, and they are patently unsafe. Why would you put someone in danger?
“Oh you people are so ignorant.”
“Practice problems, teaching the basics, mental games are one of the best ways to teach kids just about anything. Try it sometime. You might be amazed at how well it works.”
“So when did it become a crime to express an opinion contrary to your own?”
No crime, but with ad hominem and snarky comments like above, you won’t get many sympathetic readers, and you will certainly provoke response.
I agree with anonymo, I don’t it’s a crime to express an opinion contrary to your own, but the snarkiness is going to provoke a response. I would also suggest others may take a similar approach, disagreeing with your view. For my money, I’ve never seen a math class taught without problem sets. However, I also think it’s a bit naive to think that’s the end of education. I’m far from convinced that the quality of education has declined over time, in fact, I would suggest two things to the contrary.
First, the range of people with access to education has vastly gone up over time. That is no small feat, and it also explains a decline in scores. The more access to education, the more people taking the tests, the lower the scores are likely to be.
Second, our range of knowledge and tools has expanded greatly in just the last twenty years, let alone the last fifty. There is simply more things to know and more ways to learn it. That has a good and bad component to it, but I might suggest that we are only now starting to tap into that potential. In fact, I think we need to change the way we educate people even more rather than going back to the way we taught fifty years ago.
“Now what possible difference could this make? If drill on math tables, mental arithmetic, practice problems worked in my grandmother’s day, worked in my day, why would it suddenly not work now? Have you tried it? Maybe you should. You might learn something.”
I spent the last year drilling math tables to my third grader who goes to Davis schools. I guess it hasn’t gone out of style.
Drill is good for Knowledge and comprehension the lowest most elementary form of learning. But what about the higher levels once those skills have been mastered; application,analysis, evaluation and synthesis? Drill only gets you so far.
Of course whoever said the parents make a difference does understand the advantages kids who have educated or involved parents make. Yes Davis schools score well because they have an educated population of parents who support their kids education. Put these people in another distict and the kids would do as well as they do here.
In lieu of involved parents the most important thing is for each child to have a role model with whom they can identify. Someone to provide the scaffolding of support required in Maslow’s hierachy of needs. Obama gets this, modeling his position as dad in chief. So does Hammond, who throughout this discussion has not been recognized for his expertise in bridging the achievement gap. Also the school board who hired Hammond, because he had that expertise, deserves recognition, they could have hid behind their test scores and continued to ignore the gap in their minority cohorts but they didn’t. Instead they brought in Hammond and he is working on the problem, hiring the kinds of people to serve as role models that Murphy always claimed he couldn’t get to come to Davis.
On finances the usual suspects are complaining about their tax bills claiming that waste is the problem but if you squeezed every penny of waste out you still wouldn’t balance the budget. We are beyond the waste, we are cutting the flesh and bone. The people of Davis have kindly or selfservingly stepped into the breach and the DSF should be commended for their continued and incredible efforts to aid the children of this community because of the unwillingness of people, found mostly in other parts of the state, to fund education the way my parents generation did.
As for the guy who commented about black children raised in African countries or Caribbean countries dong well in school, he admits that he doesn’t know if it has been studied and clings to something he describes as “Anecdotal observation” without providing the anecdote or the observation. It seems that it says more about his personal perception about race than anything to do with the achievement gap because he fails to provide any type of evidence to support his view.
“Putting more money into the schools is not the answer.”
Really? Well, until someone offers a truly better answer it seems to be the best option available.
“I merely suggested that we need a dramatic overhaul in how our taxes and donations are being used @ the local school-district level. Seems to me we’ve been closing schools, abandoning “critically-needed” temporary classrooms and reading one story after another about teacher layoffs and increasing class sizes. That doesn’t seem to be a good use of our money.
Well, Bubba, if you have a better solution or proposal, then let’s hear it. I gave an opinion, and you responded with nothing but a personal attack on me. That certainly solves our funding problems, doesn’t it?
You must be one of the smartest people in town.”
Smartest? I wouldn’t concede that.
But I am skeptical of these new-fangled gimmicks that are supposed to solve something but end up with a situation FUBAR. In the past ~70 years or so, we’ve had examples of “citizen democracy” that were supposed to help the situation, but ultimately serve some other purpose.
The 2/3 majority budget rule in the legislature, Prop. 13 (which is an incredible deal for commercial owners), Gann Limits, Prop. 98, term limits, Prop. 49 (Arnold’s baby on after school program), Prop. 10 (First 5 Initiative), etc. All of it has the sum result of preventing the state government from functioning effectively and make meaningful cuts, and representing constituent values and priorities .
Rick, insult me and my thoughts however you want, but I want to see a state government be held more directly accountable instead of beholden to a spaghetti mess of propositions approved in isolation and without consideration for the unintended consequences.
I agree that basics need to be stressed early and then repeated – math tables and formulas, grammar, spelling, even handwriting. People forget if they don’t touch on these basics from time to time.
The achievement gap is a problem. Parents, teachers, administrators and students have been meeting periodically over the last few years to try to identify the reasons for this gap in Davis (They are called something like a “community conversation.”) I remember first discussing the existence of this gap at Climate Committee meetings at my child’s Junior High school over 3 years ago.
I’m glad that the athletic field and track is getting fixed. I ran on that track early in the morning once. It was in terrible condition. Spaces for children to play and facilities for athletics and exercise is being recognized as crucial in these times where children are inside and parked in front of computers and TVs most of their free time.
I agree that parent involvement is important, but I know many, many instances where parents were involved and Davis schools still failed their children. There is a tremendous amount of unconscious bias in our system.
“What makes you think that practice problems are not being used now?”
Because my kids did not get drilled in their math tables as they went through the Davis schools. I had to do it at home, bc it was not being done in the schools.
“Moreover, you seem to suggest that because we have gone away from this method (I disagree that we have), that we have worse outcomes. I disagree that we have worse outcomes.”
I am not suggesting, I am insisting we have gone away from drilling students on simple basics like math tables – BECAUSE IT WAS NOT DONE FOR MY THREE KIDS WHO WENT THROUGH THE DAVIS SCHOOL SYSTEM. How many kids have you had go through the Davis school system?
“He was not given a raise, his contract was extended for three years.”
I remember reading in your blog that Colby ended up getting a 4% raise, something you even indicated was a mistake in light of the economy. That this was undone later is hardly the point. Quit putting your own spin on what was a shameful event that even you disagreed with at the time.
“You didn’t answer my question which was whether you would allow your kids to run on that track.”
I thought my answer was pretty clear. I ran on tracks in that condition in my day, and I would allow my own kids to run on it today. My three kids used the DHS athletic field in the condition it is in, and didn’t seem to have any problems. Frankly, Davis kids are spoiled compared to other school districts in the country, let alone the state.
“No crime, but with ad hominem and snarky comments like above, you won’t get many sympathetic readers, and you will certainly provoke response.”
As if there isn’t “ad hominem and snarky comments” all over the place in the blog! Or is it that my comments undermine your idealistic view of the way the Davis schools are run? Feeling a bit uncomfortable that I offer some valid criticism? When your child is beaten up on graduation day, bc the school failed to keep gang members in check at school; when your child was warehoused with troublemakers bc he had a learning disability, and became the class scapegoat; when your kids came home from school not knowing basics so that you had to spend a lot of time drilling at home, doing the teachers job for them; and so on, I think it is perfectly understandable that I would feel the Davis schools are less than stellar.
You yourself are admitting there is an achievement gap, ergo Davis schools are less than perfect. Well, you need to take a look at what is going on in the Davis schools to understand why. And what goes on in Davis schools is a microcosm of what goes on all across the nation. Students who are not white, who do not come from the proper socio-economic background, who have learning disabilities, any student who does not fit the “normative model” that teachers have in their minds eye, get shuffled off to “special classes” like TRANSITION ACADEMY, which is where my son ended up at DHS. That program is an absolute disaster.
TRANSITION ACADEMY warehouses kids w behavior problems together with those who do not have behavior problems but only learning disabilities. The end result is that those kids with just learning disabilities get the brunt of bullying from the troublemakers. In my son’s case, the gang leader who ran her “posse” out of Lamppost Pizza in west Davis lived with the vice principal of DHS. Talk about a conflict of interest and extremely poor judgment on the part of the VP. That gang leader ruled the roost at DHS, and terrorized many a student.
It was admitted by counselors my son had a learning disability, but they insisted there was no funding to have him properly tested. No funding for learning disability testing, but somehow there was funding for refurbishing stadiums, putting on dinner shows, new MPR buildings, new administration buildings (while students had to walk through huge water puddles when it rained bc of the faulty guttering system), and the like. They have money for a new King High, money for a Horiculture Teacher and Stage Technician teacher, but no money to have my son tested for his learning disability so he could get the proper help.
Well, he finally got the assistance he needed and the academic grounding he required at Sac City College. I would also note that all junior colleges, and universities have to give remedial math and English classes, bc so many students coming in from the high schools, including DHS, don’t have basic skill sets. This has been widely reported in the newspapers over many years.
“I agree that parent involvement is important, but I know many, many instances where parents were involved and Davis schools still failed their children. There is a tremendous amount of unconscious bias in our system.”
I believe it impossible to have a school system that fully serves every single student and makes every parent happy. It does a pretty good job for a large majority of students. Because of that, I’m not going to crucify the entire district school system for the smaller percentage of shortcomings. Rather I would be willing to engage in constructive discussions on ideas that will get us progressively closer to that ideal.
” There is a tremendous amount of unconscious bias in our system.”
Yes there is and Hammond is trying to address it by hiring people who can help overcome it. The most amazing example of unconscious bias was the closing of Valley Oak, the school with the best program for helping reduce the achievement gap because of other concerns. I found it astounding that people who tell others to be aware of their unconscious bias failed to understand their own.
[quote]The most amazing example of unconscious bias was the closing of Valley Oak, the school with the best program for helping reduce the achievement gap because of other concerns.[/quote]Has anyone taken a look at this issue specifically since VO closed. I presume most of the VO neighborhood children attended Koramatsu last year and that most of the VO teachers moved there, as well. There apparently was evidence that VO did a better job serving the needs of its “at risk” kids than other Davis elementaries. Any evidence that Koramatsu was able to replicate that success?
“However, I also think it’s a bit naive to think that’s the end of education. I’m far from convinced that the quality of education has declined over time, in fact, I would suggest two things to the contrary.
First, the range of people with access to education has vastly gone up over time. That is no small feat, and it also explains a decline in scores.”
If scores have declined, then how can you argue the quality of education has not declined? It has, bc teachers have gotten away from the basics, w such garbage as the “new math”. The idea is that instruction must be made “fun” so students will learn. What has happened is students are more confused, don’t know the basics, and feel they are entitled to be entertained. Knowledge, when understood, is its own reward. When my students finally began to understand the basics with drill, practice problems and mental arithmetic, they started absorbing new material like a sponge. It was almost hard to keep up with them, and they were an absolute delight.
“Second, our range of knowledge and tools has expanded greatly in just the last twenty years, let alone the last fifty.”
Yes, expanded with nonsense like “new math” and gotten away from teaching the basics. There is no substitute for making sure students know basic math facts. Without those building blocks, students are doomed to an inadequate education. It is not different in English, where the student needs to understand basics like grammar, diagraming sentences, how to write a simple paragraph, how to write a business letter. So you know none of my three children were ever taught how to write a business letter in the Davis high school system? I find that shocking. Yet DHS makes sure to cater to super bright kids with Da Vinci High. My son was never offered the option of King High – just TRANSITION ACADEMY – the warehouse for anyone that didn’t fit preconceived molds.
“I spent the last year drilling math tables to my third grader who goes to Davis schools. I guess it hasn’t gone out of style.”
This is exactly my point. The reason Davis students end up doing better is bc the parents come from a background that values education, and makes sure the basics are taught at home, if not in the classroom.
“Drill is good for Knowledge and comprehension the lowest most elementary form of learning. But what about the higher levels once those skills have been mastered; application,analysis, evaluation and synthesis? Drill only gets you so far.”
My point is that you can’t get to the steps of application, analysis, evaluation and synthesis until you have the basics first. But if you don’t drill students the basics to begine with, the student is going to have problems. If a student doesn’t know the subtraction tables, then how can that student be expected to figure out how to do a word problem? The answer is he/she can’t. When my students first came to me, 2/3 did not know the math tables, which explained to me why they were having so much difficulty learning. Once we got the math tables learned and out of the way, these students took flight and soaked up knowledge like a sponge. They finally understood bc they had the tools to build on – the math tables.
Do you know that many of my students had to figure out 8 x 7 by drawing out seven rows of eight dots, then counting up the dots? Don’t you find that scary, disheartening, and frustrating? When I asked the students about it, it became clear this was part of the “new math”, to make sure students “understood” what 8 x 7 “meant”. At some point, you need to memorize the tables, whether you understand them or not – and that requires “drill”, which had become a “dirty word” in teaching. I don’t need to understand how a refrigerator works to use it.
“In lieu of involved parents the most important thing is for each child to have a role model with whom they can identify. Someone to provide the scaffolding of support required in Maslow’s hierachy of needs.”
Parents must be involved bc the schools are not teaching the basics. If my daughter doesn’t know what a simple paragraph is by the time she is a senior in high school, something is terribly wrong. She graduated from UCD w highest honors in physiology. This is the stark reality of Davis schools, like it or not. Don’t get me wrong – my kids had some good teachers along the way. But the basics very often were not stressed enough, too much time was spent on developing plays and shows, and my sone was warehoused with the troublemakers – shuffled off to the side bc he did not fit the “norm” as Davis schools saw it. As it turned out, my son is dyslexic.
“We are beyond the waste, we are cutting the flesh and bone.”
When we are spending money on Horticultural teachers and Stage Technician teachers, Mandarin 5 teachers, Da Vinci High School, fancy MPRs shared w the city, new stadiums, I hardly call that cutting flesh and bone. In my day, when test scores were far better and so was an education, we didn’t have all the fancy stuff. It is the frills that are cluttering up the educational mission of teaching the three R’s. I know this will be sacrilege to most, but IMHO, teaching the 3 R’s should be first and foremost, and that includes drill, practice, mental games of the basics. My kids did not receive those things going through the Davis schools. I had to provide it at home. And don’t even get me started on the discipline problems in the schools – a whole other issue that has been well publicized.
“This is exactly my point. The reason Davis students end up doing better is bc the parents come from a background that values education, and makes sure the basics are taught at home, if not in the classroom.”
I guess I didn’t make my point clear enough.
This “drilling” was done at the suggestion of my kid’s teacher. Sure, I probably would have done it anyway.
[quote]When we are spending money on Horticultural teachers and Stage Technician teachers, Mandarin 5 teachers, Da Vinci High School, fancy MPRs shared w the city, new stadiums,[/quote]
Oh boy. That whole list of complaints that has been thoroughly explained before but completely ignored and dismissed by you.
I’m surprised that you didn’t bring up crunch lunch, too. What happened?
New Math? How old are you? It was in the 60’s that I learned new math. I think it was gone by the 70’s. We agree on drill and memorization as an educational foundation. I have seen too many kids who don’t know their math facts and depend on their hand held computers for the simplist computation. Then again I couldn’t do the computation on their Iphone either.
“When we are spending money on Horticultural teachers and Stage Technician teachers,”
These are ROP classes (Regional occupational program) whose funds come from the county office of education specifically to teach “vocational” type classes. If you don’t run the class, then you don’t get the money. Perhaps you are arguing that DJUSD should have eliminated those classes and rejected the money on principal?
Here’s a Sac Bee article from last Saturday on ROP teachers in the Sacramento area:
[url]http://www.sacbee.com/ourregion/story/2033173.html[/url]
“Mandarin 5 teachers”
You’ve mentioned this before and I’ve bent over backwards to find where there was a Mandarin 5 class in the district last year. I couldn’t find one. If there was one, I would be interested in details.
“Da Vinci High School”
You can close DVHS, but then you end up having to hire those teachers back to cover the DHS class for the DVHS students that you’ve absorbed.
“fancy MPRs shared w the city”
That’s a new one. I have no idea what you’re talking about here.
“new stadiums”
Davis voters already voted long ago on the CFD assessments (on parcel tax statement) that cover the stadium costs. Can’t spend it on staff salaries. You can argue that the money should have been spent on Emerson JH, but the board voted the stadium as the priority, based in part that Emerson is still quite usable and doesn’t pose immediate safety issues. The old stadium was a different issue.
Emerson was built in ~1980. The old stadium was built in 1961. That gives you an idea on the difference in wear and obsolescence.
“You yourself are admitting there is an achievement gap, ergo Davis schools are less than perfect.”
Is there a perfect school system that we could follow as a model? You like City College. I agree that California community colleges are really quite good, but even they have their limitations.
“In my son’s case, the gang leader who ran her “posse” out of Lamppost Pizza in west Davis lived with the vice principal of DHS. Talk about a conflict of interest and extremely poor judgment on the part of the VP. That gang leader ruled the roost at DHS, and terrorized many a student.”
Is the VP still in the district? Is that gang still around?
“Well, he finally got the assistance he needed and the academic grounding he required at Sac City College. I would also note that all junior colleges, and universities have to give remedial math and English classes, bc so many students coming in from the high schools, including DHS, don’t have basic skill sets. This has been widely reported in the newspapers over many years.”
I agree that it has been widely reported as a statewide trend, but haven’t read anything about how or whether DHS fits in there. How many DHS students graduate needing remedial math?
” It was in the 60’s that I learned new math. I think it was gone by the 70’s.”
You are incorrect. “New wave” programs such as CPM and Mathland have been embraced by the Davis School system despite extensive opposition by UCD scientists and mathematically literate parents. They are currently used. There is much evidence that these programs work poorly. See
http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com
Teachers embrace these programs for various reasons. Several Davis teachers are on the payroll of publishers who produce materials for these programs, and yet still participate in the selection process. But mostly, these programs are easy to teach and mask student failure. The teacher has less preparation time and less evidence of student failure.
In Davis, to be fair, the negative effects of these programs have been partially, but only partially, offset by “supplementary materials” which restore some of the traditional methods developed over 2000 years.
The students most impacted by the new programs are low income students and students from families with less educated parents. They are least able to provide the supplementary home environment that helps when a child is confused or lost.
There is extensive evidence that in low-income districts with poorly prepared teachers, drills and traditional methods are effective in getting high student achievement.
See
http://saxonpublishers.hmhco.com/en/sxnm_research.htm
Let’s not lose sight of the main point here. Davis schools are not as good as they could be, bc they do not always teach the basics. I know this for a fact bc I had three kids go through the Davis school system. All three were missing basics, that had to be taught at home.
Second, learning disabled students are warehoused w troublemakers, rather than making sure to address the student’s specific learning disability needs.
Thirdly, we have gangs operating in Davis, and those kids can cause a good deal of harm at the school. There is also a lot of bullying that goes on. Davis schools have a nasty habit of not addressing these disciplinary problems within the schools.
The above problems I have listed very well may explain part of the reason for an achievement gap.
Why are so many of you resistent to making the Davis schools better? It is as if you don’t want to believe there is anything wrong going on. Stick your heads in the sand at your children’s peril…
And yes, I think having a Stage Technician teacher for instance, is not as important as making sure learning disabled students get the testing and training they need. I think this town worries too much about frills, and not enough about the basics.
And yes, all 3 of my kids used those athletic fields at Davis High School, w nary a scratch.
“” It was in the 60’s that I learned new math. I think it was gone by the 70’s.”
You are incorrect. “New wave” programs such as CPM and Mathland have been embraced by the Davis School system despite extensive opposition by UCD scientists and mathematically literate parents. They are currently used. There is much evidence that these programs work poorly.”
Inkblot conflates two efforts at math reform. The math reform effort after Sputnik (1957) was popularly called “New Math”. It was popular during the 1960’s and early 70’s.
In 1989 a nationwide group of math educators proposed a set of math standards that has been conventionally followed by many K-12 districts. The group, Mathematically Correct, generally opposes this effort of standards.
Some UCD faculty have also supported the CPM series.
This wikipedia article offers one neutral background review of the issue:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_math[/url]
“In 1989 a nationwide group of math educators proposed a set of math standards that has been conventionally followed by many K-12 districts. The group, Mathematically Correct, generally opposes this effort of standards.
Some UCD faculty have also supported the CPM series.”
I meant to add that this newer reform effort has sometimes (disparagingly) been called, “New New Math.”
“Thirdly, we have gangs operating in Davis, and those kids can cause a good deal of harm at the school.”
Right now?? How do you know this?
“Davis schools have a nasty habit of not addressing these disciplinary problems within the schools.”
That’s not my experience.
“Why are so many of you resistent (sic) to making the Davis schools better?”
I don’t think we are being resistant. Unconscious bias is being addressed. It sounds like your child was a victim of this – learning disabled = troublemakers.
I think you need to listen to what people are saying and not just repeating your views over and over. We don’t want the same uninspired education for our kids that we had years back. We do want something better.
DaVinci is not an elitist program. It actually is attractive to the non-AP track student that tends to be overlooked at DHS.
ROP courses are desperately needed and their funding comes from a different source. The school athletic fields are over 48 years old and dangerous for anything more than just a slow jog. The funding for fixing it comes from a different source than the academic programs that you say need improvements.
I don’t think that we have a lot of gang activity in Davis–that is based both on the numbers of gang arrests/ validated gang members which are extremely low and the fact that Davis PD has pulled out of the county gang task force.
I agree our schools can be better. I don’t think anyone who works for our schools would disagree with that. The only question is how to make them better.
Two points: first, several people post under “anon” hence the inconsistency in POV. I posted the remark about after school enrichment being important.
Second, I must reluctantly agree with former teacher. My kids were very bright and had LDs and were in various schools in the district and they had uniformly miserable experiences because they did not quite fit the mold. Now they are doing nicely in very selective colleges after I opted out of the Davis schools. Are the Davis schools bad? No. Were they bad (i.e. a bad fit)for my particular kids? Absolutely yes. And I am not alone in that experience.
This thread – or any thread in Davis about the schools – generates such vastly different and passionate views. I wish people could accept that kids’ experiences in this school district varies WILDLY. Those who have a good experience excoriate those who do not – yet both experiences are true. It’s like the story of the three blind men and the elephant, each describing the same animal differently as they respectively touched the side, the trunk and the tail. Instead, we waste energy throwing invective at the “other” side. Why can we not accepot that some things in our schools work well and some do not, and that criticizing the things that do not work well is a productive exercise, not treason?
I hope for rationality, but I’ll settle for civility in the discourse.
I have a problem with “Former Teacher” rehashing a litany of disproven or equivocated complaints, then wondering why so few give him/her credibility.
If you want civil discourse, then a beginning is to acknowledge, with civility, what is true and what isn’t.
The issue of Mandarin 5 for example — it seems that inquiries have shown that no such class was offered at DHS. Well?
No gangs in Davis? Get your head out of the sand.
My son is now a physician. My daughter has a Master’s Degree. They both went through the Davis School System. And they are both African Americans. Davis has a good school system. There are many “good” teachers. But there are bad ones as well. The bad ones are not necessarily due to a lack of subject matter knowledge. Typically they have absorbed the larger community’s norms as to expectations of youth that are not representative of the majority group in the community.
Fortunately my wife and I are both educators– with postgraduate degrees.Also, we had resources to enable our youngsters to get the extra-classroom experiences to flesh out their education. Still, with all our advantages, getting our children through the school system without major damage to their integrity was a another full time job.
A lot of families simply do not have the resources to afford this — the educational assets, time, money and status.I do not believe there is motivation in our school systems to close the “achievement” gap. Where I grew up in the Caribbean, it was the white kids that were lower achieving and the black kids that were educationally higher performers. The is no genetic reason for the achievement gap. From my 40 plus years of college teaching, of the two most impressive students I had, one was Chinese, from Jamaica,one was African from Tanzania.
Who said no gangs in Davis–I only saw a person say there’s not a lot of gangs in Davis. Do you think that is an inaccurate statement?
“Who said no gangs in Davis–I only saw a person say there’s not a lot of gangs in Davis. Do you think that is an inaccurate statement?”
The gangbanger that just recently killed a police officer lived right here in West Davis, behind my house. So anyone who thinks there is no gang activity in Davis just keeps putting their head in the sand and doesn’t want to see any problems.
You now have several parents who have indicated that the Davis schools could use some improvement. The achievement gap is there for a reason. I suggested some reasons for it (failure to make sure students get the basics with tried and true methods of drill, practice problems, mental games; schools unwilling to address disciplinary problems such as gang activity; warehousing learning disabled students with troublemakers; spending too much money on frills instead of making sure basics have solid funding. As a parent and/or citizen of Davis, you can choose to look the other way and pretend everything is hunky dory, or admit that perhaps Davis needs to incorporate some necessary changes and make a real difference in closing the achievement gap.
“Still, with all our advantages, getting our children through the school system without major damage to their integrity was a another full time job.”
I absolutely agree with this statement. There are things going on in the Davis schools that need to change for the better. I was so thankful when my children graduated from the Davis school system and moved on to college. It was a welcome relief.
“The gangbanger that just recently killed a police officer lived right here in West Davis, behind my house. So anyone who thinks there is no gang activity in Davis just keeps putting their head in the sand and doesn’t want to see any problems.”
Your original statement below —
“Thirdly, we have gangs operating in Davis, and those kids can cause a good deal of harm at the school. There is also a lot of bullying that goes on. Davis schools have a nasty habit of not addressing these disciplinary problems within the schools.”
has the effect of implying gang activity in the schools. I am aware of “wannabe” gang-type behavior among some high school age students, but I have not heard of anyone recently in Davis schools with direct gang affiliation. I have been hearing more criticism commenting that disciplinary actions in the district have been too harsh.
I think you have the habit of overstating your case to alarmist extremes, that people have their heads in the sand, no one is doing anything, “you people are so ignorant”, teachers are out of touch with students and their craft, etc. That student test scores are good in Davis only because the community is highly educated and parents are doing stuff at home to help their kids. As David stated earlier, extremely few people in Davis would disagree with you that schools need improving.
Your comments tend to disrespect the current and ongoing efforts that parents, teachers, community members, and administrators are making to address these issues. There has been progress in closing the achievement gap. There is still more work to do.
If this is something you genuinely care about, I would welcome you to find ways to volunteer in the community to help with the achievement gap. For instance, Janet Boulware has done a fabulous job organizing after school tutoring of at risk kids through the Bridge Foundation. Perhaps you can contact her to help apply your experience and understanding.
“I think you have the habit of overstating your case to alarmist extremes…”
Perhaps if your children went through what mine did, you might feel less apologetic about the Davis schools. My son was almost knifed and then physically assaulted on graduation day by three teenaged thugs as he was getting me a gallon of milk, the three put up to it by the gang leader operating out of DHS and living w the Vice Principal of the school – what a perfect ending to my son’s public school education!
There is an achievement gap – and I’ve given you what I believe to be the reasons why. How is that being alarmist? You just don’t want to believe the Davis school system is far less than perfect. If someone doesn’t agree with your value system, they must be an “alarmist”.
“Perhaps if your children went through what mine did, you might feel less apologetic about the Davis schools. My son was almost knifed and then physically assaulted on graduation day by three teenaged thugs as he was getting me a gallon of milk, the three put up to it by the gang leader operating out of DHS and living w the Vice Principal of the school – what a perfect ending to my son’s public school education!”
Is this Vice principal still working in the district?
“There is an achievement gap – and I’ve given you what I believe to be the reasons why. How is that being alarmist? You just don’t want to believe the Davis school system is far less than perfect. If someone doesn’t agree with your value system, they must be an “alarmist”.”
There you go again with your exaggerations…
I never said I believed the school system to be perfect. You’ve made your case that there’s an achievement gap. I never disagreed with that. I’ve also shared with you how you can use your expertise and experience to help. If you’re not going to be part of the solution, then please get out of the way and have some respect for those in the community who are trying to improve for future generations what was a miserable experience for your kids.
WDF:
“I am aware of “wannabe” gang-type behavior among some high school age students, but I have not heard of anyone recently in Davis schools with direct gang affiliation.”
Just keep cutting away at the budget and then we’ll get a clearer view of what gang activity in Davis looks like.
“I never said I believed the school system to be perfect. You’ve made your case that there’s an achievement gap. I never disagreed with that. I’ve also shared with you how you can use your expertise and experience to help. If you’re not going to be part of the solution, then please get out of the way and have some respect for those in the community who are trying to improve for future generations what was a miserable experience for your kids.”
If your reaction is typical, how well received do you think any of my suggestions would be? The Davis schools would not listen to me when my son needed help, so why should they listen to me now? I am trying to be part of the solution, by making valid suggestions here on this blog – suggestions you don’t want to hear apparently. So don’t listen, but don’t tell me not to give my opinion. I have a right to give my opinion just as much as you do.
And by the way, one VP that gave my children a hard time is now in the school administration as we speak.
” The Davis schools would not listen to me when my son needed help, so why should they listen to me now?”
Perhaps because there are different people in charge of the schools now. I know that David Murphy for example was not very responsive to your list of concerns. Once upon a time, Cecilia and the HRC had to have a huge townhall meeting to get the district to take bullying seriously. These problems did not start under Mr. Murphy, but he did not do enough to solve them until he was literally forced to start to address them. However, the current board and district seem far more responsive to those concerns. So that’s for starters.
Also there is now a new HS principal, I have not met him yet, but I have heard good things and am excited that he will be an improvement over his his predecessor.
Again, new board leadership and new district leadership have made a difference. I understand your frustrations, but you are assuming everyone is the same and James Hammond is very different from David Murphy and his predecessors.
“You are incorrect. “New wave” programs such as CPM and Mathland have been embraced by the Davis School system despite extensive opposition by UCD scientists and mathematically literate parents. They are currently used. There is much evidence that these programs work poorly. See”
I had no idea CPM was such a controversy. I remember that Emerson offered CPM and traditional math. We opted for CPM. I helped on some homework and didn’t have a problem with it. My kids scored about where I expected on standardized tests. I think I’m mathematically literate — I have a minor in math and graduate degree in physical science.
“If your reaction is typical, how well received do you think any of my suggestions would be? The Davis schools would not listen to me when my son needed help, so why should they listen to me now? I am trying to be part of the solution, by making valid suggestions here on this blog – suggestions you don’t want to hear apparently. So don’t listen, but don’t tell me not to give my opinion. I have a right to give my opinion just as much as you do.”
I see validity in many of your comments. The problem I have, as stated above in another comment, is that you exaggerate and resort to previously unproven claims, such as the bit about Mandarin 5. Because you raised the issue and someone else challeged you on it, I even inquired and was told that there was no Mandarin 5 last year. I, as much as the next person, want to know what’s going on with my tax dollars, but when I feel like you’ve pulled a fast one on me, I get annoyed.
Clearly you can say whatever you want, within the blog guidelines. But others here also have the right to dissect and verify your claims. And if your claims fall short, then you start to lose credibility, even on verifiable claims. That’s democracy and transparency on the blog. It’s your reputation, after all.
Although I absolutely agree that students’ experiences and results in Davis public schools are better than average, I don’t think the actual schools are so great in and of themselves. Davis apparently is the fourth most educated city in the country (reference?) and possibly populated by the highest percent of parental activists (evidenced by the lack of open seats at parent-teacher events and the posting to this blog). Consequently, we have a high number of academically-gifted students and a high number of highly education quality-demanding parents. Also, if we would survey how many hours Davis parents spend helping their gifted students collect A’s and 4.6 GPAs, we could come to the conclusion that Davis schools are NOT primarily responsible for the quality results achieved; and possibly should be doing much better given all the help received.
My opinion is backed by knowing many non-gifted kids that make their way through Davis Schools and came out the other side with minimal inspiration or hope for achievement and success. Many past DHS students that fell below the academic norm, when asked, say things like “I hated going to school in Davis.” Apparently, once provided so many gifted students and attentive parents, some Davis school employees become less supportive of and helpful to their struggling students.
This brings up one of my pet peeves and a related question… how does the public school system evaluate and manage employee performance? What are the criteria for deciding which teachers and school administrators get a stronger reward or – at the other end of the spectrum – be put on probation or fired for demonstrating consistently poor performance? I think I know the answer to these questions, but I would very much welcome an insider’s view.
Years ago one of my very good bosses asked me “what more will you do” in my response to my request for a raise. That question stuck with me throughout my life and I frequently use it when others ask me for more. All public schools and teacher unions should adopt this simple principle: commit to giving their customers (tax payers) more, and then ask for the funding. The “more” I want to see is the adoption of a pay-for-performance system like the city of Denver put in place. Teachers that participate give up tenure but have the ability to make significantly better money. If Davis public schools would agree to this, I would be much more willing to agree to tax increases to fund better schools. Otherwise, given the trends for the NEA and others to resist change and only threaten us with the tired old “the Governor is hurting kids” message, I tend to think we are better off replacing most of our public schools with charter schools and a private option through vouchers.
“I see validity in many of your comments. The problem I have, as stated above in another comment, is that you exaggerate and resort to previously unproven claims, such as the bit about Mandarin 5. Because you raised the issue and someone else challeged you on it, I even inquired and was told that there was no Mandarin 5 last year. I, as much as the next person, want to know what’s going on with my tax dollars, but when I feel like you’ve pulled a fast one on me, I get annoyed.
Clearly you can say whatever you want, within the blog guidelines. But others here also have the right to dissect and verify your claims. And if your claims fall short, then you start to lose credibility, even on verifiable claims. That’s democracy and transparency on the blog. It’s your reputation, after all.”
You see validity in many of my comments, then cherry pick one item out of ten, and fixate on that? How objective or openminded are you? From news coverage on the subject of Mandarin Chinese in DHS, I believe in the Davis Enterprise, there was a discussion if it was appropriate to give upper level Chinese Mandarin classes with only a few students attending. If I remember correctly there was a proposal to have Mandarin Chinese 5, which was nixed bc of the impending economic crisis/closure of Valley Oak for lack of funds for operating expenses. Some teachers were complaining, bc they were being asked to take a pay cut, while underattended classes like upper level Chinese Mandarin classes were continuing unabated. Funny thing is, it was some frustrated teachers that were making the argument, and I happened to agree w them.
“Perhaps because there are different people in charge of the schools now. I know that David Murphy for example was not very responsive to your list of concerns. Once upon a time, Cecilia and the HRC had to have a huge townhall meeting to get the district to take bullying seriously. These problems did not start under Mr. Murphy, but he did not do enough to solve them until he was literally forced to start to address them. However, the current board and district seem far more responsive to those concerns. So that’s for starters.”
I think you make a valid point in regard to Murphy vs Hammond. However, there is no question in my mind, especially after reading many of the above comments, that “new new math” is still being foisted upon the public, instead of making sure the tried and true methods of drill, practice problems and mental arithmentic are being utilized. There is a reason for the continued achievement gap, and the fact that the CA university system has to have remedial English and math classes, bc students coming out of high school are not getting the basics. One of those reasons is bc learning disabilities are given short shrift in grades K-12. Only at the college level are these students finally offered the help they so desperately need.
Warehousing a dyslexic in amongst discipline problems is a disaster waiting to happen for the dyslexic. I know for a fact that the TRANSITION ACADEMY program, which does just that, is still alive and well at DHS and is sucking up extra funding. Many of the propenents of the practices I have complained of are still part of the DJUSD administration. So color me skeptical that much has changed. Frankly, IMHO, the proof is in the statistics – there is still an achievement gap, and there are still remedial courses provided at the college level.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. The shame of it is if some of the techniques were instituted as a requirement, I think you would see a dramatic change.
That should have read: “We’ll just have to agree to disagree. The shame of it is if some of the techniques I SUGGESTED were instituted as a requirement, I think you would see a dramatic change.”
“One of those reasons is bc learning disabilities are given short shrift in grades K-12. Only at the college level are these students finally offered the help they so desperately need.”
There is an important difference between K-12 and college level. K-12 education is mandatory. College education is optional. It’s a very key difference between high school and college, and the reason that I don’t teach high school. But I truly respect and admire teachers who do work in high school.
A student with a bad attitude can effectively kill the attitude and enthusiasm of others. That bad attitude student probably doesn’t want to be there, but has to be accomodated at K-12. In college that student probably won’t be there, or could be easily convinced to go somewhere else.
Teaching in college is really easy compared to high school.
[quote]There is an important difference between K-12 and college level. K-12 education is mandatory.[/quote]
[quote]Teaching in college is really easy compared to high school.[/quote]
There are not many that would disagree with these points, but I think it is illustrative of a problem mindset for those in the K-12 teaching profession. It is almost, but not quite, like saying “if it wasn’t for the kids and their parents, teaching would be so much more enjoyable.”
Here’s an idea… give parents a voucher and let them choose their school and maybe the student won’t feel like he has been handed a mandatory prison sentence, and his teachers will get more of the college-level experience of motivated learners.
Also, consider that K-12 teachers that cannot handle a few students with a bad attitude probably are in the wrong profession and would be better off getting the boot.
One last thought… the “bad attitude” thing is at least partially a gender discrimination thing. The percent of women K-12 teachers in the nation is somewhere around 70% today and is up from historical numbers (a higher percentage of men used to teach). Also, with Title-IX and the social political correctness changes resulting from the women’s movement, the typical behavior of boys had been marginalized and relabeled as problematic or even ADD. Down with testosterone, right?
The high school dropout rate for boys has been growing for years and far exceeds that for girls. The percent of girls going to college has been on the rise for years, while the same for boys has been on the decline. This is leading to some very serious social problems like increased crime and gang violence, a less-skilled workforce and lower marriage rates for educated women. A significant source of all these problems is directly attributable to crappy public K-12 education that is infested with un-motivated and hyper-sensitive teachers and a dysfunctional system of performance incentives and measures.
A talented and hard-working (50-hours per week, 12 months per year) teacher that can teach upper-division science and math to a group of normal fidgety and physically-oriented boys should make $100k+/year because there is a demand for it but a limited supply. How can we get something like that done in our public school system?
“The high school dropout rate for boys has been growing for years and far exceeds that for girls. The percent of girls going to college has been on the rise for years, while the same for boys has been on the decline. This is leading to some very serious social problems like increased crime and gang violence, a less-skilled workforce and lower marriage rates for educated women.”
Addressing teacher-gender imbalances must certainly be a key to improving schools for all the reasons you state. But I question the magnitude of the impact on society at present. Crime statistics have been trending downward since the 1990’s — but no telling what the current economy’s effect is. Overall enrollment in colleges has been steadily increasing, leading to a more-skilled workforce, in total numbers, at least.
“The shame of it is if some of the techniques I SUGGESTED were instituted as a requirement, I think you would see a dramatic change.”
Does DJUSD *not* use “traditional math” in the schools these days (2008-2009)?
Can you make a case based on available data that a district like DJUSD has better results using the kind of math that you have in mind?
“Does DJUSD *not* use “traditional math” in the schools these days (2008-2009)?”
If they weren’t using the techniques I suggested when all three of my children went through the Davis public schools, there is still the same achievement gap and remedial courses being taught at UCD to counter the poor basic education graduating seniors from high school are receiving, TRANSITION ACADEMY is still alive and well and being funded at DHS,and comments on this blog indicate “new new math” is currently being taught in the public schools, why do you feel it is necessary for me to “prove” the techniques I suggested are not being taught at DHS? Clearly I could videotape all math classes for a day at DHS, prove they were all using “new new math”, and you would ask me to prove that my techniques were not being used at least once in the year in each class. What is this, a *issing contest? Your arguments have devolved into the silly.
The education business makes no money from teaching math in the traditional way, bc it doesn’t sell new books. But traditional methods work, particulary with kids who are underachievers or who have learning difficulties. How do I know this? Because I have been on both sides of the desk, as a teacher of slow learners (public school and junior college), and as a parent of a learning disabled (dyslexic) child. I suspect my experience trumps yours by far in the educational field.
How long ago did your last child graduate?
” What is this, a *issing contest? Your arguments have devolved into the silly.”
“I suspect my experience trumps yours by far in the educational field.”
Comments like this are of no use to a constructive dialog. I asked a couple of basic questions so that I could begin to do some research on my own, that could have been answered, yes, no, I don’t know, or something constructive. I don’t care if you say, “I don’t know.” I just wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt to check out anything that might be important.
I prefer to draw conclusions drawn on data that I can check out for myself and share with others. I don’t care who you are, I don’t believe in having my opinions and conclusions bullied by anyone who says, “you should believe me because I’m an expert”, without explaining where these conclusions come from in a way that we could all appreciate.
Clearly you are someone who cares, and who claims plenty of experience. I thought you’d respond more civilly.
I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND wdf AND OTHERS OF THIS PREVIOUS POST: You are incorrect. “New wave” programs such as CPM and Mathland have been embraced by the Davis School system despite extensive opposition by UCD scientists and mathematically literate parents. They are currently used. There is much evidence that these programs work poorly. See
http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com
Teachers embrace these programs for various reasons. Several Davis teachers are on the payroll of publishers who produce materials for these programs, and yet still participate in the selection process. But mostly, these programs are easy to teach and mask student failure. The teacher has less preparation time and less evidence of student failure.
In Davis, to be fair, the negative effects of these programs have been partially, but only partially, offset by “supplementary materials” which restore some of the traditional methods developed over 2000 years.
The students most impacted by the new programs are low income students and students from families with less educated parents. They are least able to provide the supplementary home environment that helps when a child is confused or lost.
There is extensive evidence that in low-income districts with poorly prepared teachers, drills and traditional methods are effective in getting high student achievement.
See
http://saxonpublishers.hmhco.com/en/sxnm_research.htm
inkblot/reminder:
I don’t doubt that “new wave” math, or whatever you call it (represented by CPM and Mathland), is embraced by at least some in the district. My clarification was that you originally implied that “new math” (which made heavy use of teaching non-base ten math, set theory, among others), which was a popular math reform of the 1960’s, was still being taught by DJUSD. That original “new math” from that era has fallen out of favor everywhere. I have seen CPM and Mathland, and nowhere in those books did I see anything that resembled the old “new math.”
We are talking about two different things.
From today’s (7/28) Enterprise:
“Local residents are invited to stop by the offices at Emerson, Harper and Holmes junior high schools this summer to review a math textbook proposed for adoption by the Davis Board of Education.”
“‘Connecting to Algebra, California Edition’ (Pearson/Prentice Hall) has been recommended for the junior high school math (algebra readiness) course by members of the textbook adoption committee, which includes teachers, parents and community members.”
So if you want to weigh in on the issue, you know where to go and what to do.