The Vanguard wraps up its fourth and final interview with school board candidate, Tim Taylor. Mr. Taylor is currently the board president, having first been elected back in 2005. After five years on the board, Mr. Taylor told the Vanguard that he actually feels at this point in time like he knows what he is doing. He said it takes a good year or two to figure out how the board and the district works.
“I do feel there is some logic to continuity, and continuing what I have learned instead of just moving aside,” said Tim Taylor.
He also talked about the fact that the district has just hired a new superintendent, Winifred Roberson. “I have absolute confidence in his abilities and his future. But I also think it’s really important to stand by him, particularly in the first part of his first term, his first foray into this. Not having particularly the three senior members of the board who now have been through four superintendents,” he said. “I think that’s a lot of perspective that we bring to the interrelationship with superintendent.”
“I know you hear this from every politician, ‘there are things I still want to do,'” he said. “But in truth there are.”
One big focus for Tim Taylor is working with disadvantaged youth and attempting to close the achievement gap. “That’s probably the hugest deal to me in terms of actual on the ground tasks,” he said.
“But we also have projects,” he continued, “I think there is a really interesting time ahead with some of the facilities issues, Emerson, the District Office site, still Grande, Wildhorse. These are things that I’ve actually personally, as a member of a few different subcommittees, been really involved in.”
He thinks there is still a lot to do, some of those projects are not even under way just yet. But he is excited about their prospects. “They are going to be energizing for the district, like the stadium project,” he said arguing that they would beneficial not just for the entire school district, but also for the community.
He said, as well, that he is a little crazy and a glutton for punishment for enjoying the challenging but rewarding work on the board. “It’s interesting because five years is a long time,” he continued. “You can take this to the bank. I don’t think that a lot of good comes from lifers. This is it. I’m not interested in running for a fifth and an eighth and a twenty-third school board term. Because I think there’s a lot of benefit to new perspectives and ideas too.”
He said the current board is an interesting mix because there are new ideas and fresh perspectives already. He pointed out none of the current board have been there more than a term plus the year. “It’s not like we have multiterm board members,” he continued, “So everyone, I think, is still pretty energized and pretty into the job.”
He said that, while the board is relatively new, they are “seasoned.” “I’m not worried about burn-out yet, but I can see how that can become a problem if you stick around too long,” he concluded.
We also talked about his priorities for the district in his next term. One of the key questions is what the district can do, given the budget, but also what are some of the goals, regardless of the budget situation.
“I think my priorities would still be making sure we have options and opportunities for the whole cross section of kids in the district – which we do a fairly good job at and we do a better job than most districts, but we’re not there yet. We’re still far from perfect with a lot of room to improve,” Tim Taylor responded.
He priorities include “making sure we have services and classes for kids that are going to Harvard and for the kids that are going to the Army and for the kids that are going off into the workforce,” said Mr. Taylor. “That’s a huge cross-section of types of preparation, but that’s what we have.”
He said that the Achievement Gap is probably an overused term, but that is definitely his priority. “We have to find out a way why black kids and Hispanic kids and other kids are not being…they’re being attended to by the district but still not in a manner that’s equivalently successful to what’s going on with mainstream kids,” he said. “I realize only part of that is educationally-related, part of that is sociological, part of that is economic.”
“There’s only so much of it that we can control, but we can control a whole lot more than what we currently have,” he said.
He talked about the need for diversity in our ranks, “which, I think, we are light years better than we were when I came to town, as partially exemplified by the person you are interviewing right now,” he said, “this is not a stopping point, I want to continue.”
He said the problem with the achievement gap in his eyes, “begins as our societal structure, that’s why I said it’s bigger than the district. Education is a huge component, but it is bigger than the district.”
He continued, “Our societal structure that predominantly promotes certain groups and puts them in environments and situations where there’s lesser expectation, there’re fewer role models, there are far more dire economic circumstances.”
“You have kids whose parents haven’t gone to advanced education, often times households that don’t speak English, at least on a regular basis, households where they can’t afford things that most of us now take for granted, computers and other technological advances that have become so integrated with education that if you don’t have one,” he continued.
He said, while it is great that we are moving toward a more technological and paperless society, there are families that are far off that radar screen. How big a hole is it to climb out of, he said, as it already was. But now with the advances in society, he thinks that gap is far greater.
One of the problems with the achievement gap is that it persists even when controlling for the education level of the parent. “I don’t think this is a huge issue in Davis, but I think it is nationally,” he said, “When you have teachers and administrators that expect things from some kids and they expect less from other kids, guess what happens.”
“Expectations are enormous, both because it sends a message to the kid and also because it [determines] how much help a kid is going to be given, just in terms of attention and amenities during their formative years.
“I’m not saying this is a systemic problem in any particular school or at any particular grade level, but it is a systemic problem in our country.,” Tim Taylor added. “Almost to a person we have really well-intended people who are mission-oriented and want the kids to succeed. If they are aware of a particular bias they can address it, if not, life goes on as is.”
We moved back to the budgetary concerns that have monopolized much of the board’s time and attention the last few years. “The long-term solution is the parcel tax renewal that will take us for a more substantial period of years,” he said. How long is to be determined. “However, I am going to advocate strongly that we go longer than we have, historically, and that is a sustainable economic resource.”
“At least then,” he said, “we can take a deep breath. If we pass that, and we’re asking a lot from the community, in a difficult economic time. But if we pass that, then we can kind of step back with a little more, not certainty, but a little greater level of comfort about our economic footing.”
“If we don’t pass that,” Tim Taylor said, “Part of the reason I want to be re-elected is that, if we don’t pass that, we need people who know what they’re doing. On the other hand, if we don’t pass that, who’s crazy enough to want to be elected to do that? Because it’s going to be Armageddon. That is a big big deal and this community has stepped up time and time and time again.”
“I am saddened that we have to ask, but we’ve got to,” he said.
He said he is a cheerleader from the great volunteer organizations and networks in town. “But,” he said, “Those can’t be the guaranteed foundation that we need. Because the state’s not going to be it, it really comes down to the parcel tax.”
He acknowledged the difficulty of hitting the moving target that is the state budget situation. But he said that we have to take the best shot that we can. “It’s a balancing act,” he said, “between not shooting so high that it becomes unacceptable to the voters and not shooting at today’s target.”
“If we shoot at today’s target,” Mr. Taylor pointed out, “What happens is tomorrow’s target is in a different place.”
“I think the worst thing we can do,” he said, suggesting that this was both a science and art, “is do a long-term parcel tax [six years or more] that passes and then two years in, the state has done another somersault, and we’re finding ourselves with the remaining four years that isn’t going to get us there.”
“We want to keep saying this is it,” he said, “but we have been unable to do that because the ground keeps shifting under us. That’s why I think we need to overshoot with some level of reasonability, so that when the ground shifts… Because the ground will shift again. That’s is almost the greatest certainty, like the sun will come up, the economic ground of this state is not going to remain firm.”
He really does not want to pass another parcel tax, only to come back in two years and ask for yet another one.
In terms of timing, Mr. Taylor said, “I was a big opponent of doing it this fall.”
One of the problems that he sided with a fall parcel tax, “The sooner you do it, the earlier you do it, the less info you have about what the situation is going to be like when you’re ready to implement it.”
He said there are some good arguments for doing it sooner. First there is the certainty and piece of mind. And second there is the prospect for re-doing it if it fails.
But that comes with a pitfall he argues. “Yeah you can, but whenever you lose on a parcel tax, when you go back for the second chance, now you’ve guaranteed you have to do it at a lower level because you have to pass it that second time around,” he said.
Mr. Taylor does not want to see a situation where they ask for $100 the first time around and then have to set for $75 the second, which would give them only 75% of the funds they need to run the school district. “I think the second thing, while it’s true in reality, is not a good crutch for us to depend on, because it almost necessitates you reduce your number.”
He sees it as important to consolidate the current parcel taxes, which are set to presently expire at different times and he thinks the time frame provided by a May 2011 election is best from that perspective.
At $600? “We haven’t gotten to that,” Mr. Taylor said though he acknowledged, “I’m definitely in favor of more.”
“We can always find uses for the money,” he said even if the number was astronomical. “We could use it, there’s no question. So I don’t think there is a number that is too high for the district. There is a number that is too high for the voters.”
“I wouldn’t even float a number now, the economic times this spring are going to largely dictate [that number],” he said.
The other problem is the pink slip dilemma. He said, “That is the state law wrinkle that I think is the biggest impediment to district progress. It’s a pain in the butt is what it is. We will have to deal with that. I don’t see a way around… unless state comes through,” he said as he laughed at that prospect.
“The silver lining there is that it’s a painful process only because of the state law, but the rescission process is a great one,” he said referring to the good news getting to re-hire teachers. “If we can rescind whatever notices we have to send out because we are successful with the parcel tax… then that’s all’s well that ends well.”
He concluded by saying, “The timing is all screwy. The way that lines up in terms of notification and state budget and election cycles is just not a good combination, but it’s the one we have to deal with.”
The Vanguard has now run interviews with all of the DJUSD school board candidates. We previously published interviews with Mike Nolan, Sheila Allen, and Gina Daleiden.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
DG: Thanks for your work here but his comments sound like a typical politician. The school district faces cuts–where are his priorities? What would he cut and what would he spare?
Everyone complains about our K-12 and says it needs to get better but from my perspective k-12 is stagnating at best and deteriorating for many.
Davis is unique in many ways. We are well educated. Yes we are privileged and relatively lucky. But we can still make our system work better. But we need more than platitudes.
dmg: “”We can always find uses for the money,” he said even if the number was astronomical. “We could use it, there’s no question. So I don’t think there is a number that is too high for the district.
I cringe at this statement.
dmg: “He said that the Achievement Gap is probably an overused term, but that is definitely his priority. “We have to find out a way why black kids and Hispanic kids and other kids are not being…they’re being attended to by the district but still not in a manner that’s equivalently successful to what’s going on with mainstream kids,” he said.”
If Taylor was so concerned about the Achievement Gap, then why vote to close Valley Oak, which had the best ESL program in Davis? Actions speak louder than words…
Taylor….Saylor… a different “look” but cut from the same cloth.
“So I don’t think there is a number that is too high for the district.”
No kidding. No matter how much money the district takes in they’ll find a way to spend it. For example, LA just built the most expensive public school ever with an eye-popping price tag of $578 million. New buildings are nice, but when they’re run by the same people who’ve given us a 50 percent dropout rate.
No matter how much money you throw into the school structure it will never be enough. California schools are badly run with way too much waste. The system needs to change and until then my vote will always be “no” on school parcel taxes. I know I’m on the losing side in Davis but we’re quickly getting to the point where I hope other taxpayers will start saying “no” too.
He’s also Hot , I’d vote for him twice also !
Those interested in the achievement gap should read the LA Times series of articles which are now running regarding what works and what does not.
The best thing you can do for an able-minded underachiever–regardless of his ethnic heritage–is put him in a classroom with an effective teacher. That may sound obvious, but the teacher’s unions are fighting it tooth and nail.
They are going so far as to boycott the LA Times, just for pointing out what works and what does not. Like all public employee unions, the CTA (and its members) have no interest in better public policy. They are there to increase teacher salaries and benefits and reduce teacher workload. They don’t want better pay for the best teachers. They want better pay for the longest-tenured teachers.
As long as the CTA has its way, California education is doomed. The CTA has financed the election of EVERY Democrat is the state legislature. Think those Dems care to do right by underachieving children?
I have a problem with Tim Taylor. He was the one who made a big push, probably even the leading voice, to close Emerson. It was sudden, precipitous, in marked contrast to the procedure the board followed when they decided to close Valley Oak. It was unnecessary anxiety to already tough times with the budget and all.
Wow. I have a feeling Tim may have just guaranteed a seat on the board for Mike Nolan.
Don, elaborate?
Good interviews DPD, but I don’t see much innovation in the group.
Some schools will have to be closed down and if Taylor had the guts to do so I have increased respect for him (btw I am also a parent in Davis).
On the CTA I agree they are part of the problem. Hell, they are the problem. I’ve also read a number of studies indicating that teacher quality is the number one factor for success. It trumps class size or anything else besides socioeconomic status of parents.
Yet we still require teachers to get a degree in education excluding any number of potentially well qualified people.
Our colleges, despite their problems, are the best in the word. We have a mixture of public and private universities, faculty specialize in an academic discipline rather than education (unless they are education faculty). In contrast education majors have among the lowest SAT scores of any major and talented students are excluded until and unless they go through a cumbersome credentialing process.
In contrast education majors have among the lowest SAT scores of any major and talented students are excluded until and unless they go through a cumbersome credentialing process.
And here we come full circle in noting that teachers are not exactly paid at a level to attract top talent. Why become a grade school teacher if you have the talent and ability to get better pay as an attorney, M.D., engineer, computer programming/IT specialist, or a Wall Street broker?
But then if you did pay teachers at a higher level to attract that talent, then you’d provoke public outcry over high teacher salaries. That outcry already goes on when the criticism is made that California teachers are already paid more per average than in other states. But even that higher than average level doesn’t really go far enough to attract the top talent you might want.
If you go for the high salary professions, then at least the money would more than make up for the frequent public criticism you face as a teacher, all of the regulations in the ed code, and questions of job security in times like this.
Elaine: “I cringe at this statement.”
Especially since you only quoted half of it. How come you conveniently left out, as did Rusty, “There is a number that is too high for the voters.” How did you leave that out it is the sentence right after the one you quoted? That’s just dishonesty on your part.
Don: Please explain.
Dr. Wu: “I’ve also read a number of studies indicating that teacher quality is the number one factor for success. It trumps class size or anything else besides socioeconomic status of parents. “
I severely question that. The kids who have the worst teacher at Davis high will do far better than those who have the best teacher in an inner-city school. I would have to really read the study, see the research design and the statistical analysis to believe anything other than what I just stated.
“Good interviews DPD, but I don’t see much innovation in the group. “
SODA, some of that was probably just my questions. Sheila focused on early education which I think is very important and Tim Taylor focused on the achievement, which I will be reporting on extensively in the next few weeks. I thought Tim was pretty honest about what the school district needs, I’d like to hear from people how we get around the money problem. I don’t see a way around it personally, but maybe someone else has a better idea.
“How come you conveniently left out, as did Rusty, “There is a number that is too high for the voters.” How did you leave that out it is the sentence right after the one you quoted? That’s just dishonesty on your part.”
David, we’re not dishonest and I don’t appreciate the inference that we are. Mr. Taylor’s statement was “So I don’t think there is a number that is too high for the district.” The district will take very dime they think they can wriggle out of the voters, but he’s just being pragmatic knowing that they can’t overstep their hand.
I think when you take half the quote it pulls it out of context. From anyone’s perspective there is no such thing as operating with too much money, but I thought it was at least noteworthy to recognize that he understood that the taxpayers and voters have concerns as well. Both you and Elaine spun that negatively for Tim, when I think at worst it’s a balance reflection of reality.
wdf1:
My point on teachers was that the credentialing process makes it difficult for talented people to enter. Yes higher salaries would help, but even current salaries could attract more people if, for example, in the sciences, you could hire people with backgrounds in science. I know some districts have made it easier to get around the traditional credentialing process–we need more of that. Rich’s point about rewarding talent and getting rid of bad teachers is also critical. More money is also good but there are things that can be done to improve our system given current constraints.
[quote]”The long-term solution is the parcel tax renewal that will take us for a more substantial period of years,”[/quote]
[quote]If we shoot at today’s target,” Mr. Taylor pointed out, “What happens is tomorrow’s target is in a different place.”[/quote]
The board has already discussed making the parcel tax permanent at earlier meetings. I predict they will start with asking for a permanent $1,200 parcel tax with no strings attached, and then will back down to $1,000 with a few restrictions on how it can be spent, but still permanent. The restrictions will be so vaguely worded so as to be meaningless, but the citizens will be placated.
There’s just no way that they are going that high. $600 is marginal for passage, $1200 would be DOA.
Wesley, I agree with you that the district will play the game. They’ll put out a high number then ratchet it down a little so the taxpayers feel like it isn’t so bad afterall when in essence we’re still getting the shaft.
“My point on teachers was that the credentialing process makes it difficult for talented people to enter…”
Dr. Wu… we had a perfect example of this in the early years of the Spanish Immersion Program when the School Distict treated us as if we didn’t exist, both in funds available(parents bought the books for the library) and teacher acquisition. The Spanish Emerson Parent Association took on the task of searching for teachers, even beyond our national borders, and came up with remarkable candidates. I don’t know the particulars of how they got past the CA higher educational teaching credential rules but they did and made a real difference in setting the caliber of the Spanish Immersion Program which, not surprisingly, the District then took credit for when the program became recognized for its excellence.
Dr. Wu: “My point on teachers was that the credentialing process makes it difficult for talented people to enter…”
davisite2: Dr. Wu… we had a perfect example of this in the early years of the Spanish Immersion Program when the School Distict treated us as if we didn’t exist, both in funds available(parents bought the books for the library) and teacher acquisition.
davisite2, I don’t follow how your example relates to the credentialing process that Dr. Wu mentions.
On a related note, one person who arose as a community leader from the Spanish Immersion Program was Don Saylor.
Elaine: “[“dmg: “”We can always find uses for the money,” he said even if the number was astronomical. “We could use it, there’s no question. So I don’t think there is a number that is too high for the district.]
I cringe at this statement.”
dmg: Especially since you only quoted half of it. How come you conveniently left out, as did Rusty, “There is a number that is too high for the voters.” How did you leave that out it is the sentence right after the one you quoted? That’s just dishonesty on your part.”
I was being kind, not dishonest (I thought we were not supposed devolve into personal attacks?). If I had fully finished my thought, adding Taylor’s last sentence (“There is a number that is too high for the voters.”), my further commentary would have been even more acute. To not put too find a point on it, the last statement is basically saying, “OK, I know voters won’t allow us to spend however much we want even though that is what I think is the appropriate thing to do (spend anything and everything on education), so obviously we can only propose a parcel tax in an amount that we think we can get away with.” How about proposing a parcel tax based on what is actually needed, rather than what the School Board thinks it can get away with? This sort of attitude is incredibly arrogant – the idea that education is the most important thing in the budget, and we should spend whatever the School Board decides it wants…
This is really farther than I wanted to go, because I usually try to temper my remarks with some decorum. However, in accusing me of being dishonest, I felt forced to be more explicit. Honestly (pun intended), I think it is more productive to say you disagree with someone, than to accuse them of being dishonest… just my view… personal attacks will drive people away from the blog, as they did in the case of Primoris… After all, the rules of the blog are no personal attacks, right?
Dr. Wu: ” I’ve also read a number of studies indicating that teacher quality is the number one factor for success. It trumps class size or anything else besides socioeconomic status of parents.”
Who is going to decide what a good teacher is? What criteria? How do you keep politics in the workplace out of it. How so you account for some teachers educating in school districts where the students do not value education/have lower intelligence levels?
I would also point out everyone has their own definition of what a good teacher is. I can remember having a high school calculus teacher who I considered fabulous. A lot of other students I knew hated this teacher.
And to what extent do we hold the administrators accountable for what does or doesn’t go on in our schools?
Dr. Wu: ” Rich’s point about rewarding talent and getting rid of bad teachers is also critical. More money is also good but there are things that can be done to improve our system given current constraints.”
Sure there are, and many of those things take place at the administrative level.
Sorry Elaine, I don’t view that as a personal attack, I think when you quote only half of someone’s statement and take it out of context that is dishonest.
Second, I think you are misconstruing what Tim Taylor said. You say, you would like to him to propose based on what is actually needed, I think that’s what he spent ten minutes saying that he wants to do. That does not mean that the district could not use more. For instance, I had to do a home remodel and I did what was absolutely needed but if I had had more money, I could would have liked to have done some other things. That’s where I think Mr. Taylor is going. At a minimum he needs to figure out how much the district needs not to lay off more teachers. But you forget quickly that they have already laid off teachers, they have raised class size, they have cut staff size. So right now they appear to be trying to maintain what they have, but what they have is not ideal. So I wish you would have stated your point before and not cut his quote in half, because I think it gets to the heart of a misunderstanding, and I’m not sure if that’s his fault, my fault, or your fault.
I have been both a teacher and parent. From my perspective, most teachers spend way too much time on disciplining a very few students. Often the administration does not back teachers or effectively deal with discipline problems. Learning disabilities are not addressed in the school system to a significant degree. It is not uncommon for each teacher to choose their own curriculum, hold to it rigidly, and be inflexible if the student is not getting it, or is way ahead. Far too frequently basics (math tables; diagraming sentences) are not drilled into students so they have a basic foundation to build on. Parental concerns are brushed aside far too often. So much of how a school excels depends on the administration of the school…
Elaine: Teachers as far as I know do not get to pick their curriculum anymore, that is determined at the state and district level. The irony of course is that the less money the school district has, the more students they have in a given class and the less they can specialize. The more those students are going to be hung out to dry.
dmg: “Elaine: Teachers as far as I know do not get to pick their curriculum anymore, that is determined at the state and district level. The irony of course is that the less money the school district has, the more students they have in a given class and the less they can specialize. The more those students are going to be hung out to dry.”
Teachers have more control over the curriculum than you can imagine. And they pretty much can decide how to teach that curriculum – group work; self study; lecture, etc. Money has nothing to do with “specialization”. It has more to do with a teachers particualar style of teaching. A lot of teachers are very resistant to changing their curriculum to meet the needs of students who are either brighter or slower to learn. A good teacher should be able to handle both, even in a larger classroom. I used to teach 42 8th graders in a portable classroom. I also tutored on the side. There are methods by which you can have the class working, and give students having problems extra help, while allowing smarter kids to jump ahead.
Slower students or students with learning disabilities are “hung out to dry” because the administration is unwilling to address their needs in a meaningful way. Instead these students are warehoused in programs like “Transition Academy”, which is a catch all for those with learning disabilities together with discipline problems that are deemed an inconvenience wrt to the regular curriculum.
Far too frequently basics (math tables; diagraming sentences) are not drilled into students so they have a basic foundation to build on.
I have to wonder if there was anyone around criticizing sentence diagramming as some new fangled fad (the “new grammar”) when it was first introduced.
At one point they may have, but in the era of standardized tests and universal standards, far less.
How long ago did you teach? A lot of things have changed in the last ten years.
dmg: “Sorry Elaine, I don’t view that as a personal attack, I think when you quote only half of someone’s statement and take it out of context that is dishonest.”
How is my saying “This statement makes me cringe” taking a statement out of context? Had I included the last statement, my comment would have been no different. And I would say accusing someone of being dishonest is certainly a personal attack. Rusty49 certainly thought so. Why not have said something like, “Hey Elaine and Rusty, why didn’t you address Tim Taylor’s other statement?”, or “Hey Elaine and Rusty, Tim did say thus and such, which indicates to me he recognizes thus and such…”, rather than calling us “dishonest”. Not nice…
dmg: “Second, I think you are misconstruing what Tim Taylor said. You say, you would like to him to propose based on what is actually needed, I think that’s what he spent ten minutes saying that he wants to do.”
I think Taylor’s position is pretty clear –
“At $600? “We haven’t gotten to that,” Mr. Taylor said though he acknowledged, “I’m definitely in favor of more.”…”We can always find uses for the money,” he said even if the number was astronomical. “We could use it, there’s no question. So I don’t think there is a number that is too high for the district. There is a number that is too high for the voters.”
Note the words “I’m definitely in favor of more…We can always find uses for the money, We could use it no question…So I don’t think there is a number that is too high for the district…There is a number that is too high for the voters…”
That does not sound like someone who is proposing a parcel tax based on what is needed, but rather what he thinks he can get away with.
dmg: “So I wish you would have stated your point before and not cut his quote in half, because I think it gets to the heart of a misunderstanding, and I’m not sure if that’s his fault, my fault, or your fault.”
I don’t think there is any misunderstanding here. I’m taking Tim Taylor’s words at face value, not an interpretation of what I think he means. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one 🙂
Slower students or students with learning disabilities are “hung out to dry” because the administration is unwilling to address their needs in a meaningful way. Instead these students are warehoused in programs like “Transition Academy”, which is a catch all for those with learning disabilities together with discipline problems that are deemed an inconvenience wrt to the regular curriculum.
I don’t question your DJUSD experience as a parent back in 2003 or earlier. But I question your unfailing use of the present tense to describe the Davis schools. Is this indeed the way things are today?
Because I have had better experiences more recently with learning disability issues.
wdf1: “Because I have had better experiences more recently with learning disability issues.”
Would you care to share? I would be very interested to know if DHS has instituted anything better…
dmg: “How long ago did you teach? A lot of things have changed in the last ten years.”
I have sources who are involved with the schools currently who say these things are going on as we speak…
wdf1: “I have to wonder if there was anyone around criticizing sentence diagramming as some new fangled fad (the “new grammar”) when it was first introduced.”
Funny you should say that. In my parents day (they are in their 80’s), the schools used to teach Latin, which is long gone. Yet Latin would be very useful in extracting the meaning of words in the English language. It is a foundational basis for much of our language. Yet when students study for their SATs/GREs, they almost are going back and learning Latin to determine the meaning of words (what prefixes and suffixes mean). As for diagramming sentences, now you are even lucky if a student can make a complete sentence…
[quote]I have sources who are involved with the schools currently who say these things are going on as we speak… [/quote]
Maybe you can get one of them to come on and tell us in greater detail about it.
Funny you should say that. In my parents day (they are in their 80’s), the schools used to teach Latin, which is long gone. Yet Latin would be very useful in extracting the meaning of words in the English language. It is a foundational basis for much of our language. Yet when students study for their SATs/GREs, they almost are going back and learning Latin to determine the meaning of words (what prefixes and suffixes mean). As for diagramming sentences, now you are even lucky if a student can make a complete sentence…
Or if you know a romance language, French especially, you can reap similar dividends.
Would you care to share? I would be very interested to know if DHS has instituted anything better…
We used 504/IEP programs. It didn’t involve segregating the student from a regular class, but flagged the teacher to make appropriate individual accommodations.
“davisite2, I don’t follow how your example relates to the credentialing process that Dr. Wu mentions.
On a related note, one person who arose as a community leader from the Spanish Immersion Program was Don Saylor.”
Those first few years, when the District just thought that if they ignored us, we would fail, the Spanish Immersion Parents Assoc. searched, recruited and hired teachers for the program,with or without credentials. One example that comes to mind was Mr. Carlson who turned out to be a very special SI teacher although he did was not credentialed when hired. After some years, he became Vice Principal of Holmes JHS.
… and Don Saylor was not a part of those early years. We were much too creative with the freedom to build the program without the interference of the District bureaucracy. Don’s penchant for bureaucratic
[i]”On a related note, one person who arose as a community leader from the Spanish Immersion Program was Don Saylor.” [/i]
The irony of Saylor’s involvement in Spanish immersion for native English speakers is that he was the leading opponent on the Davis School Board of English immersion for native Spanish speakers. It greatly confused me how some people could hold such internally inconsistant positions.
Years after Prop 227 passed and English immersion proved far more successful than the disingenuous Bilingual Education scam, I asked Saylor if he had changed his mind. He said no. He continued to think that he was right to oppose English immersion. I asked why and he could not articulate a reason. By contrast, Ruth Asmundson and John Munn, who were on that same school board which fought vigorously against English Immersion, admitted they had been wrong. Ruth conceded to me that she felt uncomfortable at that time supporting Saylor in opposing English immersion, being that she became fluent in English (her third language) after going through immersion in it.
One example that comes to mind was Mr. Carlson who turned out to be a very special SI teacher although he did was not credentialed when hired. After some years, he became Vice Principal of Holmes JHS.
And then later principal of Chavez Elementary, before he and his family moved away.
“It greatly confused me how some people could hold such internally inconsistant positions.”
English immersion for the beginning school years of a youngster who may well be struggling with a new culture,environmentt,language and a sense of isolation from his classmates is a consideration that is not comparable to the Spanish Immersion program which, at least at its inception, was an educational “enrichment” experience for native English speakers and a few youngsters who had some minimal Spanish language family exposure/cultural background but were fully fluent in English and totally comfortable as a part of our community.
English immersion for the beginning school years of a youngster who may well be struggling with a new culture,environmentt,language and a sense of isolation from his classmates is a consideration that is not comparable to the Spanish Immersion program
When you say, “beginning school years,” do you mean K, 1st, 2nd grades? Because I have observed that kids those ages in particular seem to adapt very well to an immersion environment, whether it is Spanish Immersion or English Immersion. There doesn’t seem to be as much shame or embarrassment at that age to have limited fluency. In Davis, some elementary schools are better equipped to handle ELD than others. That may have to do with the relative size of the ELL population.
[i]”English immersion … is a consideration that is not comparable to the Spanish Immersion program …” [/i]
Bull. It’s the exact same thing. It’s how the human mind works. However, because the Bilingual Education scam caused other greater problems, not junking it had far greater negative consequences for the students who were stuck in it.
One of the worst aspects of B.E. was that it segregated Hispanic children away from the mainstream. It was Brown vs. Board in reverse. Second, the students stuck in that terrible system never became fluent. So it handicapped them upon leaving school.
Your notion that children cannot adapt quickly to “a new culture, environment (and) language” is utterly preposterous and false. Children are very adaptable to new circumstances. But ignoramouses and frauds ran B.E. on that very premise and they hurt the outcomes of millions of Latino kids. That is why the overwhelming majority of Latino voters favored English immersion. They knew the knuckleheads were screwing their kids with that sham. The kids, by the time they dropped out of school, knew it too. The only people who seemed to hang on to that were the idiots who don’t understand how children learn quickly and the scam artists who were paid large bonuses to teach B.E.
We had English immersion for immigrant children in California for 140 years and the children of immigrants integrated just fine into our society. (My mother is a good example of that, having European parents who spoke no English as children.) Then for 20 years the knuckleheads put in B.E. and destroyed a generation. Thank god that idiocy is over and done with. Now Latino kids are learning English at a fast rate, just as they did before the idiocrats imposed their crazy notion that kids cannot adapt to a new culture or environment.
Rich, please tone down your language, ok? Just stop calling people you disagree with names like ignoramouses and frauds, knuckleheads, idiots, scam artists, and using terms like idiocy. It puts a damper on discussions when you use strongly hostile language like that.
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They knew the knuckleheads were screwing their kids with that sham. The kids, by the time they dropped out of school, knew it too.
Has there been any long term study on students in B.E.?
Rich Rifkin…. take care of that knot in your shorts. We were not discussing the Bilingual Program but rather the false analysis of “internal inconsistency” between opposing DAVIS English Immersion and supporting DAVIS Spanish Immersion. In addition, my understanding that ,in Davis, the Spanish Bilingual program was almost exclusively utilized by transient migrant worker families whose children would be in our school system for a few months and then leave.. so the issue of aggravating the isolation and disorientation of these children in a school situation with English immersion was a real consideration.
When I want to really understand current issues, I don’t go to Fox News. I go to the Onion. This really explains what’s going on in our schools:
[url]http://www.theonion.com/video/in-the-know-are-tests-biased-against-students-who,17966/[/url]
Very sensitive ears should be careful of profanities.