In July, firefighters’ union President Bobby Weist issued an email to his membership indicating a vote of no confidence, “The firefighters in the City of Davis have no confidence in the ability of Chiefs Black and/or Pierce to carry out the Fire Department’s primary duties to the community.”
On Tuesday, Mr. Weist and two of his members explained to the Davis City Council their concerns about the major changes the department is undergoing under the control of non-firefighters. They were joined by about a dozen members in the audience.
The following are their comments in their own words…
Bobby Weist: We wanted to come this evening because right before you went on your vacation, there was an article in the paper regarding a vote of no confidence in the police chiefs as fire chiefs. First, I want to say that this isn’t anything personal against either of those individuals. We don’t know what police officers do, we don’t know their job, we’re sure that both of those chiefs are good chiefs in the police department.
However, this is the fire service and we’re a bit different than them. We have many other things that have been going on in our department, there’s a lot of changes as the city manager just mentioned. I believe it’s phase II of the boundary drop.
When I was on that committee – the boundary drops are going to be boundary drops. Now apparently they’ve changed. They were going to be true boundary drops, that the university would be responding into that area and taking those calls. Now I guess they are taking second calls, it’s basically what we’ve been doing for the most part for a long time. That’s the first thing.
The second thing is… There are a lot of, for instance, we just went on several strike teams. Our guys are working overtime. I’ll give you the numbers. The amount of overtime that we’re working in fiscal year 09-10, we worked 5100 hours for the year, that fiscal year. In 10-11, 5600 hours. In 11-12, 8929 hours. In 12-13, 17,950.
And this fiscal year, between July 1 and today, we’ve already worked 4178 hours. If we continue at that pace, we’re going to be working over 25,000 hours. You’re working these people to death and like I said, we just went on a strike team, people were forced to work overtime prior to leaving on a strike team. They went on a strike team, they were there for ten days, working 16 hours and when they came back, they had to come back to work.
We have people working 260 hours in a two week period, there’s only 336 hours in those two weeks. We have to do something, we need a fire chief. Like I said, no disrespect to either of those gentlemen, but something has to happen.
I just wanted to say, you are making major changes in the department, in the services that you’re providing, and we have police chiefs that are the ones making those decisions.
Mayor Joe Krovoza: I’d like to ask the city manager at his next report to include at least a report on this, if not make it an agenda item.
Bert Cahill: Just like to say a few words, I know you guys are elected city officials, your job is to make good decisions for the citizens of this community. We were all here in May when you guys decided to cut our staffing level which dramatically changed our operations procedure. Made our job a lot less safe, made your community less safe, but we heard all about how fiscally this was the only way we could do it.
A few of us were anxious when we heard that there was an opportunity for us to apply for a federal grant about a month ago that would increase our staffing level 66 percent compared to what you guys cut in May. It would increase that level for a period of two years at zero expense to the city of Davis. We were enthusiastic about that possibility about at least putting in an application for that grant.
I just want to express my disappointment that the city manager chose not to apply for that. So it’s kind of hypocritical to me to hear all of this about cutting and changing our staffing levels to safe, but then when you have an opportunity to rectify it by 66 percent, you don’t even put in an application.
Personally I’m disappointed and I don’t feel like that makes a whole lot of sense.
Skyler Lacey: I just want to say a few things also about what’s going over there. The department used to be known for its excellence and now with all due respect to chiefs Black and Pierce, as police chiefs they have no training or experience as firefighters.
The morale in the fire department is really low. We have had no contract for a long time. We’ve had a 20 percent cut in staffing, and we’re on track to work 20-plus thousand hours of overtime this year due to the staffing cuts.
It used to be rare to get forestry work and now it happens on a regular basis. That’s not good for us, it’s not good for our families, a lot of us have children and wives and stuff, and we’d like to go home and see them once in a while at least. It’s not good for the community we serve.
A little overtime used to be okay, but what we’re working now is not good for anybody. When you add all of these major issues together – what kind of fire department are we going to have when this is all done?
Like I said, we used to be known for our excellence, and I want to remind the council that you don’t get an excellent fire department by following the instructions from an audit. It’s the firefighters that made the fire department excellent in the first place. We could use more of them and we could use a chief to work with to be better service to the community.
Following public comment, Council indicated that they wanted the issue of the chief to be brought forward to them this fall per their direction during the May vote.
The council made it a little harder to extract concessions from the firefighters after they voted for the maximum raise for future council members. I felt they looked shameful while doing it.
$30K total budget hit versus $150K to $200K total compensation average for firefighters, really Growth? To me, it’s embarrassing how little we compensate council members compared to BOS’s.
David, it’s all about perception and the council voting in the maximum raise for their jobs just looks bad when they have been cutting employee pay, jobs and services to the community. They all knew what the compensation for the job was when they ran for office so to now gripe about their pay and hours just looks bad. Like you say it’s only a $30K budget hit but why for only that little amount of money would the council give the firefighters and other public unions the fodder to throw it back in their face? Dan Wolk and to a degree Brett Lee had it right and to me the others looked shameful.
There’s a huge problem with that argument. They were looking to make it effect others not themselves. Anyway that’s for tomorrow.
Who is paying for the triple increase in overtime? Who is forcing our firefighters to join wildfire strike teams if it’s being resisted by them and is “working these people to death”? How can any city fire department expect to permanently staff at a level that allows firefighters to take time off to make up for the extra demands of fighting a distant state forest fire?
If our firefighters “used to be known for our excellence,” what are they known for now? I hadn’t heard about a 20% cut in fire department staffing; what’s that all about? In any case, how has the change in numbers on a truck (to every other department’s level) made our firefighters’ “job a whole lot less safe”?
With all due respect, these complaints sound like whining from an over-paid, overly pampered, insubordinate group of employees detached from the community they serve. The grand jury investigation and professional audits and studies can, indeed, lead to a better managed and more excellent department.
It’ll be difficult with Bobby Weist dragging things down, kicking and screaming, twisting everything to put more union pressure on the city to increase pay, benefits and conditions for these workers. The cries of “low morale” due to temporary police supervision obviously are offered as union attempts to drag tha department back to the days of personal favoritism, reprisals and union domination over the fire chief.
It’s easy to respect the courage the firefighter’s job requires. It’s difficult to generate a whole lot of sympathy, however, for standby folks who get full pay (and overtime pay) for sleeping on the job in one of the state’s most fireproof cities.
David:
[quote]There’s a huge problem with that argument. They were looking to make it effect others not themselves.[/quote]
My first post:
[quote]The council made it a little harder to extract concessions from the firefighters after they voted for the maximum raise for future council members.[/quote]
So yes, I already posted that, but some of the current council will end up getting the raise. It was bad politics on their part, I think they knew it but a few couldn’t help it they wanted the money anyway.
David is correct about the pittances paid our council members. Dan Wolk’s pandering about the “optics” of such a minimal pay increase after all these years should be recognized for what is is, and it’s not a profile in courage.
So Justsaying, you’re okay with council members voting themselves a raise while asking others to take cuts? Dan Wolk was right for whatever his reasons were, it is bad optics.
Yes, I’m okay with it. The city council has been pouring money to the city employees on a regular, unsustainable basis for a decade while not acting to improve its own meager stipend whatsoever.
We expect a lot from our elected leadership. Moving from almost nothing to a little more will provide ammunition for the firefighters to use in their ongoing battle with the city, but so does every other sensible thing that the city does.
They didn’t vote themselves a raise. They voted future members a raise. You noted that originally, but you keep coming back to the same point. Again this is a topic for tomorrow’s article.
Meanwhile, UCD firefighters seem proud of their work on the strike team:
[img]images/stories/ucd-strike-team.png[/img]
The FF budget and operational mode still waste huge amounts of public resources.
There are too many FF per truck.
The City still sends 2 trucks to every single little accident, even if no injuries reported.
The City still has not set up an ambulance service that handles the bulk of the calls for medical emergencies. Who needs 2 trucks at every site where someone needs oxygen and a trip to Sutter?
I was over in Vacaville the other day, and one lone fire truck was racing Code 3 along the road.
I was in Woodland last month, and I saw one lone fire truck with just the driver going Code 3 to a call.
The City of Davis continues to waste huge amounts of money on the way it conducts the public’s business.
i don’t believe you are correct michael…
“There are too many FF per truck. “
there are three on each engine. that’s too many?
“The City still sends 2 trucks to every single little accident, even if no injuries reported.”
that’s not necessarily correct any more. the plan is to have only the rescue apparatus as soon as the changes are fully implemented.
“The City still has not set up an ambulance service that handles the bulk of the calls for medical emergencies. Who needs 2 trucks at every site where someone needs oxygen and a trip to Sutter? “
that would be a mistake.
the changes are being implemented and some of your information is inaccurate.
David:
[quote]You noted that originally, but you keep coming back to the same point.[/quote]
Will or will not some of the current council receive that raise?
what i heard was that brett was looking for a way not to accept the raise, lucas was planning to donate the raise, and dan is hoping to be on the assembly and didn’t vote for the raise. so the answer to your question is that none on the current council who voted for the raise, seem to plan on taking the raise.
that said, i’m with david and just saying, i don’t think this matters in the negotiations.
[quote]that said, i’m with david [/quote]
LOL, you didn’t need to say that because everyone knows that reads this blog that you’re always with David.
there’s one thing i disagreed with david on, but that’s between me and him 😉
first, is it not possible to be proud of your work and exhausted and over worked at the same time? not sure what the point of the photo is. no one said they didn’t want to help…it’s the staff that are left behind that have to fill in for the strike team day after day that is the problem. i would hope they are passionate about the firefighting they are off doing.
one thing i am very upset about is the topic of being over paid grouped together with the concern with staffing levels.
they are two very different topics not always related.
ironically what we have seen bc of lowered staffing is firefighters being paid [i]more[/i] because they have been [i]forced[/i] to work over time.
“With all due respect, these complaints sound like whining from an over-paid, overly pampered, insubordinate group of employees detached from the community they serve.”
bringing to the public’s attention how much they are being forced to work is certainly not complaining and has absolutely nothing to do with appreciation for their salary.
just because FFs are being [i]paid[/i] for working doesn’t mean what is happening now is healthy or ok.
if you gave me 1 million dollars and then said you must eat dog poo….if i complained would you call me overpaid and pampered? no. because if i am being forced to do something that is not safe – being paid for it is irrelevant.
“It’s difficult to generate a whole lot of sympathy, however, for standby folks who get full pay (and overtime pay) for sleeping on the job in one of the state’s most fireproof cities.”
i can’t even imagine working 24 hours shifts 5 days in a row.
i don’t function well with just one bad night sleep, and FFs get woken up multiple times a night.
i am worried FFs are not well slept and it will affect my safety.
why aren’t more ppl seeing that is the root of the FFs message ===> SAFETY!
they would be paid LESS if the city hired more staff!!!!!!!!!!
it seems like they are the most attached and in tune with what the citizens need for maximum safety.
standby folks? paid for sleeping? that couldn’t be more insulting or disrespectful. if anyone thinks that FFs just get called when there is a fire – they need to have a little visit to the fire station and educated themselves on what the job entails. getting woken up 5 times at night to be exposed to viruses, deal with drunks, and stand on highway 80 to clear a car accident is exactly what everyone wants to do at 3am for free. just bc they go back to sleep from 5-7am you think that is normal, healthy and does not deserve compensation? wow.
Bobby never explained the nexus between the poor police leadership and the overworked firefighters and the large amounts of overtime. How would a change in fire leadership administration address the current force being less overworked and consuming less overtime?
What exactly has the current police administration leadership done to warrant Bobby’s vote of no confidence? Could at least one Council member ask Bobby in open forum for specifics examples to support these ambiguous sweeping assertions?
davis grad…..
If they feel over worked and are not happy with their job nobody is forcing them to stay. Believe me, it won’t be any problem filling their positions. In fact I’ll bet we could fill them with new people happy to have a great job at a much lower pay scale.
“ironically what we have seen bc of lowered staffing is firefighters being paid more because they have been forced to work over time”
If this actually is happening, I’d like to know why. How much has the workforce been cut since the 3-FF decision has been made, enough to triple the department’s overtime?
I’d be pleased to hear the firefighters’ legitimate grievances, to have them evaluated for accuracy and to have changes be made (particularly for safety issues). To have charges flung around by a union boss who is suing the city for his own insubordination and who advanced his personal position over better qualified colleagues doesn’t seem an effective way to get much consideration.
I’m not sure your characterization of our department’s working schedule is accurate. They average two hours of sleep in 24 hours for five days in a row for each of their shifts?
@Phil Coleman – If I am reading this correctly, the fire fighters at last evening’s meeting spoke during public comment time (I was not there but don’t recall that this was an item on the agenda). As such, it would have been inappropriate for the CC to engage the firefighters in dialogue (I am sure Bobby et al understood that going in). Further, I would NOT want the CC to put this on the agenda. Allow the appropriate staff to deal with the concerns and allow the Vanguard/Enterprise to investigate the specific points raised by the firefighters in order to help all of us understand their concerns.
It is time for the firefighters, like every other group of employees within the city, to start dealing with their work-related concerns within the appropriate leadership structure rather than play out their grievances at the level of the City Council. I would ask all of us to consider the dysfunctionality that would reign in this city if every employee group/department staff gave themselves permission to bring their work-related complaints to the CC. This is not appropriate.
Full disclosure: my lifelong, 100% admiration for firefighters, totally reinforced by New York’s 9-11 tragedy, has shifted nearly 180 degrees based on the documented abuses of Davis’ fire department and union operation (in league with city leadership) over the past five years. I’m sure that my overwhelming respect for the individuals who do this work will return me to a more tolerant view eventually.
Davis Progressive: thanks for the updates. I have these concerns from years of complaining into the wind, and if you are following the details of most recent changes, then I will go with your research.
I still think 3 per engine is too many, and I would invite David G to update us as to his research on what other cities are doing with that figure nowadays?
I was one of the main opponents to the 4th fire station, and thank goodness we dodged that budget-killing proposal. Moving the Main Fire Station from 5th to up near Covell/Poleline makes a lot of sense.
I know there is a law that prohibits cities from having their own ambulance service without County approval, and Yolo wont approve because they like the Davis patients subsidizing the unfunded service calls throughout the rest of the county. (Our population has a much higher rate of health insurance that pays the ambulance than other local cities.) Maybe this has changed over the years of the Second Great Depression, so my apologies if I have gotten something wrong on this ambulance restriction?
JustSaying wrote:
> With all due respect, these complaints sound like
> whining from an over-paid, overly pampered, insubordinate
> group of employees detached from the community they serve.
Is is possible to find out what percentage of Davis firefighters actually live in Davis?
Former Fire Chief Rose Conroy recently mentioned that she is a “Davis Property owner”, but didn’t say that the Davis property is a rental (part of her million dollar plus real estate portfilio) that she and her husband (Davis firefighter Jess Hernandez) bought before they retired to enjoy a life of liesure in their 50’s while the rest of us work to fund their multi-million dollar pensions (and health care benifits)…
davis grad here to stay wrote:
> bringing to the public’s attention how much they
> are being forced to work is certainly not complaining
> and has absolutely nothing to do with appreciation
> for their salary.
Davis “grad”, you sound a lot like a Davis “firefighter”.
> i can’t even imagine working 24 hours shifts 5
> days in a row.
I friend’s fire department recently had over 1,000 people apply to work a minimum of 48 hours in a row. You don’t have to work 24 hour shifts and neither do any of the Davis firefighters since they are free to leave and take a job working 8 hours a day.
> why aren’t more ppl seeing that is the root of
> the FFs message ===> SAFETY!
Will we be SAFER if they are all paid $200K+?
P.S. It looks like you found the shift key to write “SAFETY” why not use it when you start a sentance?
Twelve years ago today 341 New York Fire Department personnel died in the line of duty. It is sad to read this discussion on the anniversary of that day of infamy.
How’s that, Mr.Toad?
The situation between the city and the DFD is sad. I’m not going to choose sides but I wish it wasn’t so bare knuckled contentious. Its particularly sad today. I saw a guy with a NYPD t-shirt on today. I was glad to see somebody still remembers.
Mr. Toad
[quote] I guess I will have to make more purchases out of town to get free plastic bags that I reuse (not single use, that’s so silly) nearly daily. [/quote]
Many people still remember. For some, 9/11 has become a national service day.
I am a former NYC resident who was traveling in DC on 9/11. I saw the Pentagon in flames only a minute or two after it was struck. I spent 4 days trapped in DC that week, before driving to Newark to fly back to SF on Saturday. I will always remember the bravery and resilience of the NYPD and FDNY (as well as the citizens of those two cities), as will everyone who lives on the east coast at that time.
I find it offensive that you would mention those groups and the gross overcompensation of the Davis Fire Department in the same discussion.
“I find it offensive that you would mention those groups and the gross overcompensation of the Davis Fire Department in the same discussion.”
When I think of firefighters that is what I think of. People who would risk their life to save you. I especially think about them like that on 9-11. I guess that is why I am saddened by the situation with the firefighters in Davis, that an occupation i admire is being so tarnished locally is deeply disturbing, especially on this anniversary.
Medwoman, i fail to understand the relevance of your quote or your point.
Mr. Toad
That’s because I failed to reread the quote before hitting the send key !! This was my intended post.
[quote]I was glad to see somebody still remembers.[/quote]
Many people still remember. For some, 9/11 has become a national service day.
Does this help ?
Mr. Toad and Adam Smith
My nonsensical erroneous post led me to re read your posts and I had a somewhat related thought.
When one takes the actions of one particular group whether for good or bad and applies it to the entire group, this is a form of stereotyping. What Mr. Weiss and his supporters here in Davis do has absolutely nothing to do with firefighters in general. So how can their actions “tarnish” the reputation of firefighters anywhere else ?
This kind of thinking is little different from what we see when Frankly decides he knows “how all liberals think” or when someone decides that all Muslims are terrorists, or…..you get it….name your deleterious stereotype.
Firefighters as a professional group provide a vital service to our community, as individuals, they are people, just like the rest of us. Just because individuals act in irresponsible, self serving ways should not be seen as any reflection on the group as a whole any more than one person’s heroic act should mean that all firefighters will act heroically in all circumstances. This kind of group assessment actually detracts from the merits of the individual whether we are praising or belittling their individual actions.