When the new Target was set to be placed on the ballot, the city went to great pains to assure existing neighborhood grocery stores that Target would not be a new competitor. Indeed Target specifically was forbidden from containing more than 20% food services in a specific effort to avoid competition either with the South Davis Nugget Market or the nearby East Manor Shopping Center which is now bare.
However, in the Sacramento Bee yesterday, the article suggests a new emphasis on food sections at the Davis Target.
“Target’s new store in Davis and its soon-to-be renovated one in Rancho Cordova will be part of the company’s efforts to boost its business by expanding its food selection.
The locations are two of 100 nationwide that will add fresh produce and meat, baked goods and more selections to the groceries Target stores typically offer.”
The article continues:
“Unlike Wal-Mart, which has seen steady business during the recession, Target’s new emphasis on groceries follows the company’s recent struggles with slowing sales…
Durable goods are not faring as well as groceries during the recession, so the strategic expansion of the store’s grocery line better positions the chain to compete with discount grocers such as Wal-Mart, said Garrick Brown, research director for Colliers International in Sacramento.
“Target could recapture a lot of that,” he said.
The chain’s 240 SuperTarget stores already incorporate full-scale grocery stores with delis, butcheries and bakeries, offering a mix of national and store brands.
The new concept is designed as a midweek restocking shopping trip, providing everyday essentials, Anderson said.”
How much of the store will be devoted to this new found emphasis? The article does not say. However, even a small version of a grocery store would violate the intent of the ordinance.
As Attachment B to Ordinance 2259 shows, a prohibited use is a Discount superstore which is defined as:
“general merchandise stores with more than 20% of the gross floor area dedicated to non-taxable/ grocery sales…”
It specifies that the reason for this prohibition.
“such stores are considered inconsistent with desired goals related to community character, downtown retail primacy, preservation of neighborhood shopping centers, traffic impacts, and air pollution.”
One can see in Exhibit C to Ordinance 2259 which amends section 40.01.090 of the city zoning ordinance, a “Discount Superstore” means “a general merchandise store with more than 20% of the gross floor area dedicated to non-taxable and/ or grocery sales.”
Finally the ordinance shows the prohibited land uses which includes “discount superstore.”
The question will invariably arise as to what proportion of the new store would contain food sales and the article in the Bee did not give a figure there. What is clear is that any increased effort to market and sell grocery merchandise and “compete with discount grocers” puts the new Target at odds with at the very least the spirit of the ordinance even if they avoid the letter of the law by keeping their square footage under the required 20 percent.
Davis has already struggled to bring in grocers to two of its neighborhood shopping centers. East Davis Manor has received less attention, but it too lies bare and it is only a stones throw away. The South Davis Nugget would similarly be harmed by the increased emphasis on food by Target regardless of whether they reach the 20 percent threshold or not.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
I hope that Target follows the city approval requirements.
Who, when and how will city enforce this? Suggest pressure be brought to bear on city at outset given city’s lack of apparent enforcement of other ordinances in Westlake.
When I saw that Bee article, I, too, wondered if the Target’s new grocery plans would violate the development agreement. I also wonder if a big grocery section there will do more harm to our grocery store ordinances, as Karen(?) Fox’s “Fresh Experience” this-is-not-really-part-of-Safeway trick did some years back. Let’s hope the city holds the line on the development agreement AND that the agreement is worded carefully enough to hold up to an apparent challenge like this.
Target wants to sell food, so they sell food. As I recall, there was an ordinance against safeway in the late 80’s or something. They weren’t allowed to expand at all beyond a certain # of sq ft so they broke up their store into a wine section that was seperate from the store to get around it. Then they tore the wall down between the wine section and SW when no one was looking so now Safeway is in violation of the ordinance. I’m not sure how big nugget is, but they seem just as big as Safeway. I’d be willing to bet they are also in violation of the original size ordinance safeway is. So is Ace Hardware, but Ace appears to get around it by having two sections across the street which is a technicality. So if Target gets around the ordinance by offering customers more options like high quality meat (how terrible! target would give us meat and produce options!), then the City Council should sentence them to 100 lashes with a wet noodle. If Target refuses, then make it 1000 lashes.
Laws and local stores be damned, right lash-boy?
Dear “Lash”:
The size ordinance you refer to was changed years ago. Grocery stores are now allowed to be the size of Safeway and Nugget. Because Karen Fox violated the ordinance in the first place is no excuse to allow Target around the requirements in the development agreement. We are aleady struggling to fulfill our own requirement for neighborhood grocery stores in two existing shopping centers, and not because of lack of interest, but due to various factors such as lack of marketing the site, exorbitantly high rents, desire of the site owner to do something else with the property, etc. Target’s grocery department, no matter the size is going to compete. They at least must conform to the requirements of the Development Agreement. This must be enforced.
If Target offers higher-quality groceries at a lower price, then this would be better for all, right?
A few points:
– The city will not enforce these ordinances because enforcement will not in the best interests of the city; once Target is in, folks will not take kindly to the city picking fights over how many products Target can offer.
– Competition may help improve Safeway’s service quality which has degraded over the years.
– There are Davis residents driving to Woodland, Dixon and West Sacramento to do their big-box shopping. Target will help retain many of these folks. We can use the tax renevue last time I checked.
– Not everybody can afford Nugget prices.
Why do you think allowing Target to carry a larger supply of groceries will spell death to the local grocery stores? Woodland has a super Target and none of their grocery stores seem to be going out of business. The regular sales and BOGOs that the grocery stores have will keep their customers coming back. The two existing shopping centers in need of a grocery store probably will not be able to sustain one because there’s no room at either one for a Safeway or Nugget sized store. No matter how well run or managed a smaller grocery store is, it will not be able to compete with the larger stores in terms of sales or variety of goods.
Actually, if target were to fail in Davis, that would not be a good sign for anyone, local supporter or not. If big box can’t open, then how are local retailers going to survive? When the economy is that bad such that a large chain like Target struggles, the small box won’t work.
“If Target offers higher-quality groceries at a lower price, then this would be better for all, right?”
Only if you believe that is the only factor as opposed to the vitality of neighborhood grocery stores and neighborhood shopping centers, not to mention people having to drive to Target as opposed to the shorter commute to a neighborhood store. Those are all factors.
“Woodland has a super Target and none of their grocery stores seem to be going out of business.”
Does Woodland have neighborhood grocery stores? If not, you are largely comparing apples to oranges. We do know that their Mall has been decimated by the move of Target and the loss of Mervyns and now Gottschalks. That’s likely not a good thing.
[quote]The city will not [u]enforce[/u] these ordinances because enforcement will not in the best interests of the city[/quote]What is the enforcement mechanism for this ordinance?
I cannot imagine Target will not follow the law*. However, is it possible that the enforcement mechanism is so weak that it would make good business sense for Target to simply ignore the ordinance?
*I’m willing to bet the person who spoke to the Bee was unaware of the law in Davis.
[quote]Target specifically was forbidden from containing more than 20% (of its floor area dedicated to non-taxable) food services[/quote]I never thought about this before, but 20% of 136,842 square feet is 27,368 sq. feet. That is plenty of room to have “fresh produce and meat, baked goods and more selections to the groceries Target stores typically offer.”
Rich makes a good point about target being able to use its store for up to one fifth to carry out food activities still allows target to do a lot. The next argument is that target’s goal within the confines of the ordinance is not to compete with neighborhood stores of any kind. But that appears to be an unenforceable part of the ordinance. Target existing in the first place was argued to be against that ordinance. So it all comes back to square one which is if you don’t want target in davis because it will hurt local retailers, but that comes back to measure K, which has been decided. Right now, I wouldn’t be suprised if many downtown davis and local retailers went belly up because of the lagging economy more than anything else.
It was decided by an extremely small margin and part of the reason that it won were these concessions such as protections placed in to protect local business and neighborhood grocers. So when you say, Measure K has been decided, you are correct, but it was decided in this direction in part due to constraints placed in the developers agreement.
Why are we assuming Target will violate the ordinance? Let’s wait and see…
Do you trust the city to enforce the law without us making a big fuss in advance?
[quote]Right now, I wouldn’t be suprised if many downtown davis and local retailers went belly up because of the lagging economy more than anything else.[/quote]I think that’s a good point, especially if UC Davis ends up laying off a substantial number of employees and fewer students matriculate, here. Fees are set to go up quite 9 percent ([url]http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12318077[/url]). (“Fees will increase by $662 for California resident undergraduates, who should expect to pay about $8,700 in fees for the coming academic year. Fees will rise $750 for in-state graduate academic students and $654 for most in-state professional students. Tuition for nonresident undergraduates will increase 10 percent to about $22,000.) One result of that will be to rob kids who now spend money at local bars, restaurants, cafes, retailers, etc. of their disposable income. I’ve read in the past that when UCD raised fees, that had a seriously negative impact on local businesses in Davis.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’ll be happy to tell you why I do NOT shop downtown. I can drive to Woodland in less time than it takes me to find a parking space downtown and in Woodland I can park all day if I want for free. I absolutely refuse to use a parking lot where I have to pay to park in an area where I’m expected to spend money.
[quote]I can drive to Woodland in less time than it takes me to find a parking space downtown and in Woodland I can park all day if I want for free.[/quote]Woodland has time-restricted parking in its downtown, as does Davis. Parking in Davis is free in all public lots save one. Parking in shopping malls in Davis and Woodland is the same.
“I’m not sure how big nugget is, but they seem just as big as Safeway. I’d be willing to bet they are also in violation of the original size ordinance safeway is. So is Ace Hardware, but Ace appears to get around it by having two sections across the street which is a technicality….”
Nugget and Safeway are both within the city’s size limit. Davis Ace has a total of 37,000 sq. ft. The new Target will be 140,000 sq. ft.
“is it possible that the enforcement mechanism is so weak that it would make good business sense for Target to simply ignore the ordinance?”
“Do you trust the city to enforce the law without us making a big fuss in advance?”
It will be up to the building inspectors to enforce this prior to issuing an occupancy permit. After they are open, there is no followup inspection of things like this. Someone would have to bring the zoning violation to their attention.
This is much ado about nothing. The people who want to shop at Target already do. The people who don’t, won’t. The only difference will be we won’t have to drive to Woodland any longer to buy reasonably priced goods for our families.
First of all, you have to argue that the distance issue doesn’t matter, which by itself is ludicrous.
Second and more importantly, very few people in Davis buy their groceries at Target in Woodland. So to argue that having a grocery portion in Davis is going to have no impact is just nonsensical.
Rich, I know the parking in shopping malls are free both here and in Woodland. The big difference is that the malls in Woodland actually give me places where I want to shop. I honestly don’t think that Target having groceries is going to have that much impact given the number of Davis residents I run into grocery shopping at the Wal-Mart superstores in Dixon and West Sacramento. And if it turns out to have an impact, so what? Is competition healthy everywhere except the People’s Republic of Davis?
Many people I know can hardly wait for the Davis Target to open and Unitrans already has plans to run a bus there from campus. It is so interesting that so many comments here are mirrors those of our previous “supermarket wars.”
[quote]After they are open, there is no followup inspection of things like this. Someone would have to bring the zoning violation to their attention.[/quote]Don, what happens at that point?
I know, for example, every large shopping center in Davis (older than 15 years) is supposed to have trees which provide 50% shade. I’ve checked: all of them are out of compliance. So if I “brought this to the attention of the city inspectors”, what would they do?
If Target, say 4 months after opening, were selling non-taxable food items on 25% of its floor space and someone “brought this to the attention of the city inspectors”, what would the city do?
Can a shopping center be shut down because its trees are out of compliance? Can Target be closed by City of Davis inspectors because they have a few too many vegies?
Rich: This is my concern and why I raised the issue now as opposed to later. I mean, the Grocery store at West Lake has been out of compliance for three years and the city only moved with immense pressure from DANG and to a lesser extent the pictures posted on the Vanguard.
You cannot assume Target will be out of compliance, before it has a chance to open. That is unAmerican. It is like saying you want to punish someone for a crime they might commit at some future date.
Your complaint should not be w Target (unless they violate the ordinance once they are open), but with the City for not enforcing its own ordinances. That is the real story here.
This article on the possibility of Target violating a city ordinance, that might endanger existing city businesses, shows a real bias against Target/big box retail.
I agree w Tansey’s comment wholeheartedly. This smacks of the “supermarket wars”, when downtown businesses attempted to keep the grocery stores artificially small. Well I don’t know about you, but I think the grocery stores vastly improved when they grew in size in Davis. They are much nicer to shop in now. And I don’t believe for one minute that the demise of the smaller supermarkets like Ray’s had anything to do with the expansion of the size in grocery stores in Davis. Competition makes for improvement – which is the one thing downtown businesses don’t want to contend with. They don’t want competition, and will do anything to keep it out.
Where was it understood in this article that it was assumed that they would be out of compliance (nor do I see how that would be unAmerican, but I’ll let that one go). The entire point was to raise the article in the Sacramento Bee and show what the city ordinance states. This alerts the city to check with Target to make sure they are in compliance. I don’t think there is a complaint in there about Target per se, just a concern about what this would do to neighborhood grocery stores that we’ve been working to bring into Davis. In short, I don’t see where you get that from what I wrote.
You could file a code compliance complaint, or request a code compliance investigation. I don’t think city staff are out monitoring these things. Code compliance violations result in fines. http://cityofdavis.org/CDD/forms/code.cfm
Your comment about the 50% shading requirement for parking lots is a good example. The plans are checked at the time of construction to see what trees are specified and what their spacing is, but clearly there is no followup of any kind. Target is no more likely to get 50% shading on their parking lot than the Marketplace has or University Mall. I’d be surprised if their 19 acre parking lot is more than 20% shaded in ten years. Parking lots tend to be pretty unforgiving environments for shade trees.
The only time the city has any leverage over a project is prior to occupancy. After the fact it is very difficult to enforce anything except egregious violations of zoning or city code that result in numerous citizen complaints. For a large corporation the fines are trivial.
“It is so interesting that so many comments here are mirrors those of our previous “supermarket wars.””
It is also worth noting that most of the predictions of the opponents of larger grocery stores from those wars have proved true. It was predicted that grocery stores in East and West Davis couldn’t survive the large Nugget and expanded Safeway, and the result has been that the neighborhood shopping centers in East and West Davis are now without grocery stores. Only the predicted harm to the Coop seems to have been unfounded.
Some interesting retail stats and trends over the last few years:
Wal-Mart is now the world’s largest grocer. Grocery sales, including pharmaceuticals and beauty products, now make up over 50% of their revenues. Grocery sales have been the main reason Wal-Mart (nearly alone among large retailers) has shown increased store sales and profits through the recession.
Target has been lagging Wal-Mart in all categories. Groceries make up 35% or so of their sales. Target has been trying to re-brand itself for more price-conscious consumers, and their move into more groceries is part of that strategy.
When either retailer opens a superstore with a large grocery section, the impact on local groceries is 20 – 30% or more lost sales. Privately owned chains such as Nugget and Raley’s don’t release sales figures, and those happen to be major players in the Davis/Woodland market. So it will be very difficult to tell what impact Target has on the local grocery market. The effect on chains such as Safeway (the largest seller of groceries in Davis) and Kroeger’s is well-documented in other cities.
The trend in grocery shopping is away from normal grocery stores and towards specialty stores (Whole Foods etc.) and big box supercenters. Small specialty grocers are doing very well, often using only 10 – 20,000 sq. ft. of space; e.g., Tesco’s Fresh N Easy stores which average 10,000 sq. ft.. Wal-Mart has recognized this competition and is opening its own smaller-footprint (15,000 sq. ft.) grocery stores under the Marketside name. The biggest growth category for most stores is private-label merchandise.
Interestingly, convenience stores have continued to do well during the recession, which suggests that location can trump price as a factor in where consumers shop. 7-Eleven (which is Japanese-owned) plans to open 200 new stores in the US this year. Sales figures are hard to find, as they are franchises.
The more square footage a superstore devotes to groceries, the less the sales tax generated. Superstores generate less sales tax per square foot than most other retail stores.
[i]Small specialty grocers are doing very well, often using only 10 – 20,000 sq. ft. of space; e.g., Tesco’s Fresh N Easy stores which average 10,000 sq. ft.. Wal-Mart has recognized this competition and is opening its own smaller-footprint (15,000 sq. ft.) grocery stores under the Marketside name.[/i]
If specialty stores are doing very well, then isn’t that the sound proposal for a location such as Westlake Plaza? We get our discount food at Safeway and our specialty food at Nugget. I agree that driving all the way across town to Nugget is not convenient. We never saw the point of shopping at Ray’s, precisely because it was both smaller and nothing special.
We also make good use of Kim’s Mart — which expanded recently. That does suggest that there is room for more specialty stores.
Greg: Delanos was going to be that kind of specialty store about 12K square feet. It would have been perfect for the area.
[i]Greg: Delanos was going to be that kind of specialty store about 12K square feet. It would have been perfect for the area.[/i]
I looked over the photos of the Delano’s stores, and I somewhat see your point, but I would not say “perfect”.
Certainly some of the food that they sell looks like good specialty food. Some of it is specialty food that is not very interesting to me personally, but I can see that people who like the Coop might like it. And some of it just doesn’t look all that special.
How big is Kim’s Mart, by the way?
This is not to say that Westlake needs something as specialized as Kim’s, but it is an example to learn from. Actually, if I were a produce retailer (ha, ha), I would make a store on the model of Kim’s, but expand it to Hispanic and South Asian food, and add fresh fish and cheese to match the stuff at Nugget. More Chinese produce would be good too; Kim’s certainly has some Chinese but it is best at the Korean food.
After reading everyone’s comments, I find it disturbing that people are missing the point. The point being that Target (and the Davis City Council) has shown a history of not playing fair and misleading the citizens of Davis with false information and green washing, all the while making it look savvy with good design. Hence the title of the article, “Will Target be in Violation of Development Agreement?” For example, they left out in their Measure K campaign that they were going to be opening a store in less than 2 years and 8 miles away from Davis. Then they sugarcoat the size of the future grocery space. 20% doesn’t sound like a lot but 20% of the future store is 27,370 sq. feet. That is roughly the same size as the El Macero Nugget (I just called Nugget and asked, their store is 25,000-30,000, Nugget who is one of the top 10 employers in the U.S. by Forbes Magazine, not Target.). Yes, they might be in “agreement” but are misleading in that they care about community and the environment. There is no downsizing here. Target has presented it self as a “green” business but what “green business” would build on a super fund site? To those who say, “But they will bring tax revenue to Davis.” , I say, yes they will but at what cost? There is a good chance that the small family businesses like Nugget, El Macero Pharmacy, Mother & Baby Source or Ace Hardware will struggle and/or fail. Where are people’s values and what is their idea of quality of life? Big Box Stores, like Target are anti-small business, anti-employees and anti-fair trade. All the while making it look good, so you don’t feel guilty for buying cheap clothes, cheap furniture and now cheap food.
[quote]I think the grocery stores vastly improved when they grew in size in Davis.[/quote]My memory of grocery shopping in Davis goes back to State Market on 2nd Street (where the Hunan Restaurant is, but in a different building). I very much agree — today’s large supermarkets, especially Nugget on Covell, are a thousand percent nicer. That niceness is due in large part to the increase in scale, permitting nice delis, wine selection, more produce, etc. [quote]I don’t believe for one minute that the demise of the smaller supermarkets like Ray’s had anything to do with the expansion of the size in grocery stores in Davis.[/quote]Here, I think you are incorrect, and I think your previous sentiment suggests exactly why. The bigger stores are nicer. People prefer the bigger stores (in many respects). Davis people, therefore, given the choice between a nicer larger store and a smaller store like Ray’s chose the larger nicer store. If the supermarkets had not been allowed to expand, the far West Davis people would have had no reason to prefer Safeway or Albertson’s or Nugget; they would have patronized Ray’s (or whatever market was in that space); and a market would be open today on Lake Blvd.
David Rosenberg, maybe 20 years ago, when he was on the city council, and he was a big supporter of neighborhood grocery stores, said explicitly from the council dais, that the permission given to Safeway (at W. Covell) to build a much larger store would ultimately lead to the defeat of neighborhood grocery shopping in Davis. Whether you think the neighborhood policy itself is a wise one or not, it’s hard to contend that Judge Rosenberg was not fully prescient. The larger stores, because they are so much nicer, destroyed the smaller stores.
[quote]I’d be surprised if their 19 acre parking lot is more than 20% shaded in ten years.[/quote]Of the 19 acres, 12 will be paved, and of that, about 10 acres will be parking. I think 20% shade is wildly optimistic. I’d guess 5% shade in 10 years; and 10% shade in 15. Shopping centers HATE trees. They attract crows, which detract customers. The branches will provide shade have a chance of breaking (say in a strong wind), scratching the paint on a customer’s car, and creating a liability for shopping center owners. My feeling is, if parking garages are economically infeasible, then we need to require (in these large parking lots) artificial shade structures, ideally with solar panels covering them. (I parked this afternoon at the Sierra Nevada brewery in Chico. Its parking lot has solar shade structures. Every single parking space is in full shade.)
[quote]If specialty stores are doing very well, then isn’t that the sound proposal for a location such as Westlake Plaza? [/quote]I asked this of the owner of Westlake. He told me that he had approached all of them, and he told me each one told him, “Are you kidding? We have no interest in putting a store in that location, in the middle of the block on a minor street.” (I should note that that owner is no longer the principal spokesman for Westlake. And people in the neighborhood contend that the current owner, as well as perhaps the one I spoke with, are, for reasons I don’t understand, not interested in having a tenant*, not interested in earning any rents on that site, despite having lost more than $1 million in rents for the last 3 years.)
*This, of course, makes no sense. But, I guess, it’s possible not all businessmen are sensible.
[quote]they left out in their Measure K campaign that they were going to be opening a store in less than 2 years and 8 miles away from Davis. [/quote]Why is that important?
[quote]Big Box Stores, like Target are anti-small business, anti-employees and anti-fair trade.[/quote]You retain the right to shop elsewhere.
“Big Box Stores, like Target are anti-small business, anti-employees and anti-fair trade.”
You retain the right to shop elsewhere.
Not if they drive every one else out of business with their “competitive” pricing based on anti-employee, anti-fair trade, anti-small business practices. Hakuna Matata.
“Where was it understood in this article that it was assumed that they would be out of compliance (nor do I see how that would be unAmerican, but I’ll let that one go). The entire point was to raise the article in the Sacramento Bee and show what the city ordinance states. This alerts the city to check with Target to make sure they are in compliance. I don’t think there is a complaint in there about Target per se, just a concern about what this would do to neighborhood grocery stores that we’ve been working to bring into Davis. In short, I don’t see where you get that from what I wrote.”
How about the following sentences: “How much of the store will be devoted to this new found emphasis? The article does not say. However, even a small version of a grocery store would violate the intent of the ordinance…The question will invariably arise as to what proportion of the new store would contain food sales and the article in the Bee did not give a figure there. What is clear is that any increased effort to market and sell grocery merchandise and “compete with discount grocers” puts the new Target at odds with at the very least the spirit of the ordinance even if they avoid the letter of the law by keeping their square footage under the required 20 percent.”
Or how about your comment: “This alerts the city to check with Target to make sure they are in compliance.” The implication is that Target just might dare to be out of compliance, so the city better check them out – w what? The big box retail police? Your bias is showing…
Don Shor: “It is also worth noting that most of the predictions of the opponents of larger grocery stores from those wars have proved true. It was predicted that grocery stores in East and West Davis couldn’t survive the large Nugget and expanded Safeway, and the result has been that the neighborhood shopping centers in East and West Davis are now without grocery stores. Only the predicted harm to the Coop seems to have been unfounded…Interestingly, convenience stores have continued to do well during the recession…”
You defeated your own argument. Davis Co-op is still doing well, as are the small convenience stores – despite the increased size of Safeway/Nugget/Albertsons. Perhaps there were other factors involved for the failure of some of the smaller grocery stores than Safeway/Nugget/Albertson’s getting bigger. I know the grocery stores in Westlake failed because often the meat was tainted, food was not fresh, there was almost no help to serve customers, and goods were more expensive.
“”But they will bring tax revenue to Davis.” , I say, yes they will but at what cost? There is a good chance that the small family businesses like Nugget, El Macero Pharmacy, Mother & Baby Source or Ace Hardware will struggle and/or fail. Where are people’s values and what is their idea of quality of life? Big Box Stores, like Target are anti-small business, anti-employees and anti-fair trade. All the while making it look good, so you don’t feel guilty for buying cheap clothes, cheap furniture and now cheap food.”
Where do I begin with this one? We need the tax revenue – and according to a staff report, Target will generate a half million dollars a year in tax revenue – tax dollars that are currently leaking out of Davis into Woodland’s coffers. Do you really believe that Target will drive Nugget out of business? Nugget serves a whole other demographic. I don’t shop at Nugget because it is way too expensive for my budget. Does Target have a pharmacy that dispenses prescription medication? If they do, that is news to me. Ace Hardware sells lumber, glass, and many, many other things Target does not carry. Target has a limited hardware section, and will not meet the same needs that Ace does. Do you honestly believe Target will somehow replace Ace Hardware or Hibbert Lumber? This is nothing but unwarranted fear mongering.
Furthermore, unlike you, many of us cannot afford the prices charged by small businesses in Davis. We need cheaper goods to survive. Are you suggesting that if we cannot afford to buy in Davis, then we should get out of town? That somehow we are less worthy than you because we cannot afford to pay top dollar for merchandise in town to subsidize Davis downtown retail? Reread your words: “All the while making it look good, so you don’t feel guilty for buying cheap clothes, cheap furniture and now cheap food.” Is there something inherently wrong with purchasing cheap merchandise/food? I think not. I live on SSI (disability for low low income) and do the best I can. Stores like Walmart and Target make the difference as to whether I can survive or not.
And lest you think it cannot happen to you, think again. I am well educated w advanced degrees, had a beautiful large two story house on a half acre, two cars, lived the American dream. My husband cheated on me, deserted me when I was pregnant. I returned to work, but the pressure of court appearances, work, and raising toddlers by myself took their toll on my health. I ended up losing everything, including my house and my health, through no fault of my own. It happens these days more often than you think. Ask around. I’ve talked to a former CEO of a company who was living in affordable housing in his senior years – his circumstances not of his own making. Life’s not fair.
So don’t deprive me of my means of survival, and demean me for my situation. It doesn’t become you…
“We need the tax revenue – and according to a staff report, Target will generate a half million dollars a year in tax revenue – tax dollars that are currently leaking out of Davis into Woodland’s coffers.”
Some of the sales tax will come from people who are currently driving out of town. The rest will come from lost sales at existing businesses.
“Do you really believe that Target will drive Nugget out of business? Nugget serves a whole other demographic. I don’t shop at Nugget because it is way too expensive for my budget.”
Grocery sales at Wal-Mart or Target do directly affect local grocery stores. Typically they take 20 – 30%+ of the local grocery business. Personally, I’d expect Nugget to fare better than Safeway in that regard.
“Does Target have a pharmacy that dispenses prescription medication? If they do, that is news to me.”
Yes.
“Ace Hardware sells lumber, glass, and many, many other things Target does not carry. Target has a limited hardware section, and will not meet the same needs that Ace does. Do you honestly believe Target will somehow replace Ace Hardware or Hibbert Lumber? This is nothing but unwarranted fear mongering.”
Target’s product line overlaps with nearly every retailer in town to some degree. Generally retailers expect to lose 30% or so of their business when a big box store opens for the first time in a community. It varies from one retailer to another, depending on our inventory. It isn’t fear-mongering, it’s a well-documented fact of life that retailers have to plan for by reducing overhead and managing our product selections carefully. Sometimes business rebounds for local retailers, sometimes not. A recession is about the worst time this could possibly happen to local retailers, especially in a town where most of the residents work for the state of California one way or another. So then we get to see how many local businesses can sustain a substantial drop in sales during the current economic and fiscal crisis.
Interesting.
“We need the tax revenue – and according to a staff report, Target will generate a half million dollars a year in tax revenue”
Normally you would not believe a word of what the city staff tells you now, you are trusting them? Since when? Funny how when you agree on an issue you are willing to take their word. You need to be more consistent.
“We need the tax revenue – and according to a staff report, Target will generate a half million dollars a year in tax revenue”
…but not from groceries. Target selling groceries doesn’t help the City of Davis tax dollar base. It does hurt Nugget South however.
LMAO at all the Target supporters. Target from the begining was built on a foundation of lies and big corporate money to buy the local elections. What a suprise that when it is built it will the implementation of a lie.
Oh. And all those shopper who think they are going to cruise into Target and it will be some much faster than going to Woodland will soon find out a fundamental truth about driving. Its not how the crow flies. It is how quick can you get there. And going down to Woodland you can there just as quickly if not more quickly get than going to Target. And Woodland has a whole bunch of Big Box stores besides Target.
I think that most of these comments do not reflect an accounting or awareness of class, culture,ethnic or even generational patterns of shopping. I have only the awareness. Also, I do like the Davis Wiki’s info on how to shop on the cheap.
Nugget is hardly a mom and pop operation. It has location in Davis, woodland, vacaville, roseville, sacramento, and west sacramento. So Nugget is not a “neighborhood grocier” at all. It is a chain competing with another chain.
If Target is in violation of whatever, I have confidence that the city will do what they usually do… absolutely nothing. They don’t enforce ordinances on that eyesore at Westlake, so they won’t enforce anything else. Anecdotally, I have spoken with business owners on Mace and they are happy that Target is being built because it will bring more traffic/business to their area. My impression from most people in general is that they look forward to Target. Also, it’s not Target’s job to make sure everyone else stays in business. It is up to the other competing businesses to stay relevant and retain their own customers.
“My impression from most people in general is that they look forward to Target. Also, it’s not Target’s job to make sure everyone else stays in business. It is up to the other competing businesses to stay relevant and retain their own customers.”
Well said!!!