From the Target in Davis website:
“Measure K simply ratifies the decision of the Davis City Council to allow the “green” Target designed for Davis to be built on Second Street, near Mace Boulevard.”
At the time, it seemed a bit ludicrous to have a LEED certified building for Target, anymore than to have a LEED certified Hummer lot. In the end, despite the marketing, it probably came down to the fact that people in Davis wanted more shopping options.
Nevertheless the “green” Target was a huge part of the marketing campaign. But it was more than the “green” Target, it was the idea that Target would be made to reflect Davis-values.
So I was naturally stunned to find a huge, I mean huge flier attached to my door from Target. A big glossy advertisement from Target–so large that I cannot even scan the whole thing. My first thought–the “green” Target is wasting a huge amount of paper.
Then I said, no, calm down, this is the “green” Target, surely it must be printed on recycled paper.
So I looked and looked and looked some more and there was no recycle bug to be found. No notice that this was printed on recycle paper. Surely I must be mistaken, Target is “green” and supposed to represent Davis values. They would never, ever, deliver fliers to the entire city that were not printed on recycled paper, what are they thinking?
But there you have it, you can dress up Target in a LEED-certified building, but you cannot make them think like environmentalists.
Since Target is here and obviously not going anywhere, it seems more reasonable that instead of just complaining, we teach them how to be better. Maybe it will work, perhaps not.
So let us all do our part to protect the environment and allow Davis to really be Davis.
They do have contact info on the flier:
“For questions or comments on this delivery please e-mail inquiries@powerdirect.net or call 877-253-5100.”
More on Target
She writes:
“So, if you haven’t noticed, Target opened up two weeks ago. To be exact, it opened on a Wednesday, and much to my shock and horror, I shopped there Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday. I rested on Monday.
In fact, on Sunday I lamented to my 9-year-old son that I should not have been at the new Target store five days in a row, especially since I voted against it opening in the first place! He offered a little incentive: ‘How about if you go to Target tomorrow you owe everyone in the family $5 each?’ including the dogs, he informed me. Deal.
I’m no political activist, but I had strong feelings about a store of this size and scope coming to town. Nothing against Target per se, but I felt for the Davis businesses that would be jeopardized and the character that would be lost.”
Just great. The column got me thinking, which is always a dangerous thing. The first thing I thought of is that I have made most of major purchases in the last few years in Davis. I bought my new computer last December, my mattress, and this past June my first new car all in Davis. I’m rather proud of the fact that I had a computer custom built in Davis at Heron Technologies now Davis Computer.
I think I have done my part to keep business and tax dollars local, but I don’t feel much reciprocation from those who would benefit from my tax dollars staying local.
Between Target moving to Davis and the Davis Downtown Businesses opposing the 5th Street Redesign on selfish and nonsensical reasons, maybe it is time to change my philosophy. After all the city does not apparently care if local businesses are rooted out by Target and no amount of grant money is going to save some of them. And the downtown does not apparently care if I get killed on my way to shop there, so why I exactly should I care so much to shop in Davis and keep my sales taxes local so that the firefighters can get their six figure salaries and their 3% at 50?
I know I’m a bad person for thinking this way and maybe someone out there can convince me not to go to Woodland and do a thousand dollar shopping spree at Costco. I’m sure Matt Rexroad will chime on and tell me to go for it. Perhaps I should say, Vacaville instead of Woodland. I’ll bet they will appreciate my tax dollars more than Davis apparently appreciates my business.
At least I have Delano’s to look forward to next month. I’ll just have to quit picking on Target one of these days.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
I had a visceral reaction when I walked into Target and it wasn’t a good one. I had just come from downtown on one of those eerie quiet afternoons and the Target parking lot was full and bustling. I felt the foreshadowing of the end of downtown. I will continue to be vigilant – buying shoes, clothes, books, food and doing banking in central Davis. Downtown has personality and character and it is one of the things that makes living in Davis a richer experience.
I never bought into the idea of a “green” Target, but that what was sold to Davis.
you never bought into the idea of Target at all, so whether Target is green or not is a side point.
“They would never, ever, deliver fliers to the entire city that were not printed on recycled paper, what are they thinking?”
oh, my god! not using recycled paper? burn them at the stake!! Now they have really done it!!!! I’ll see them all hanged for this offense!!
sarcasm aside, I seriously doubt that if Target did put their flyers on recycled paper, that would make you feel any better about them.
measure K passed, we won.
I never bought into the idea of a green Target either, just like I’m not buying into the idea of a “green” Wildhorse Ranch.
Here’s another more positive review of Target on the Davis Voice:
[url]http://www.davisvoice.com/2009/10/confessions-of-a-target-shopper.html[/url]
Well, if Davis Ace had not over charged so many people for so many items for so long…
Including training the sales staff to point out the higher priced item when you ask them where something is as a tactic (higher priced item always at eye level, lower priced same item way up high or way down low)…
Then maybe the public would not have wanted a Target in the first place.
People get tired of being over charged.
They also get tired of hacks spewing downtown protectionist business propaganda. Some downtown businesses appreciate your business, others have engaged in pressuring the city council to thwart competition and taken advantage of their oligarchy market conditions to abuse the Davis public with poorer goods and services at higher prices.
To Phantom:
You say “measure K passed, we won”.
Wait a year or two when you see some downtown businesses having to close, for instance I can’t see the Ace Homewares Store surviving the intrusion of Target, and the resulting blight of empty shops. Tell us then how
“we won”.
“higher priced item always at eye level, lower priced same item way up high or way down low”
Please, you don’t think Target employs the same tactics?
Heck, they probably invented the idea.
There were a few things I felt that were “un-green” when I finally went into the Davis Target the first time yesterday.
The air conditioner in the store was set so high, I was freezing in a sleeveless shirt and shorts, which were perfect for outside weather, but evidently too cool for the store. While the restroom did not have tree-wasting paper towels, the air-blowing hand dryer seemed to be set at warp speed.
I don’t agree that Target is the end of downtown, as Jamie suggests. There are plenty of methods out there to make the downtown stronger, more economically viable and more appealing, however, the DDBA in their infinite wisdom decided that they needed to get rid of the Main Street program in 2007 at the time they were promoting their “new” DDBA, with the developer types on the board citing that it was only about historic preservation and for downtowns/cities that needed help because their downtowns were failing. The Davis program was both a state and nationally designated community.
Successful California downtowns such as San Luis Obispo, Grass Valley and Benicia are certainly not failing at all, and subscribe to, are members of, and practice the Main Street methodology, as well as more than 1,200 state, regional, and local programs coast-to-coast. Many of these programs have learned how to co-exist with the big-box piranhas and be successful as well.
I for one have always loved having Ace Hardware to close and convenient and knowing that they had in stock what I needed. If it cost a little bit more it was well worth it to me for the convenience and knowledge that we had a vibrant store in the core of our downtown. I will shun Target and always try to spend my money in our downtown.
Well, that’s strange and unexpected. Why do the comments block cross reference to a Sheryl Patterson article on Target on the Dvis Voice blog, above? One of the fun and interesting things about the comments section is the ability to learn relevant information from other pages offsite to this one. If we’re going in that direction, we’re also losing the ability to reference a diversity of points of view.
An advantage of the Vanguard blog has been to have a fairly open comments section. The Dvis Voice doesn’t exactly have that. All comments have to get approved before being posted. It makes it very awkward and stifling to have any back and forth response in their comments section. But if you prevent the ability to even reference the alternative blog, as you’ve allowed for referencing of Davis Enterprise articles, we’re not having open discussion, even as we take responsibility for our comments under our own names or pseudonyms very soon.
Please reconsider what you’re doing.
Test:
Davis Voice Blog = Dvis Voice Blog
Appropriate filtering:
S-h-i-t = Shit
Inappropriate filtering:
D-a-v-i-s V-o-i-c-e = Davis Voice
If you didn’t get the flyer for some reason, here is my attempt at scanning the large and awkwardly shaped monstrocity.
Has anyone received the latest Yes on P “green in your face” flyer:
It has a picture of a “chia house” on it in addition to a “timeline” of Davis development history, including a picture of a toad…these flyers are just beyond belief! BTW, Davis Wiki is now compiling images of them under “campaign propaganda”…I think the Yes on P flyer will go down in the annals of Davis political history as the stupidest political moves ever!
[i]I know I’m a bad person for thinking this way and maybe someone out there can convince me not to go to Woodland and do a thousand dollar shopping spree at Costco.[/i]
David, you can shop wherever you want to shop. It’s a free country.
I also agree with wdf, by the way. Censoring links to the Dávis Vóice isn’t reasonable. In addition to looking ungenerous, it isn’t in your interest. One of the most prominent bloggers on the Internet, Glenn Reynolds, succeeded in part by freely linking to other bloggers.
A little greenwash will have a lipstick environmentalist salivating here in Davis… Sucks being seen as one-dimensional clowns by developers doesn’t it? Oh wait…
I’m giving my tax dollars previously spent in Woodland to Davis now, how is that a bad thing? I shop downtown for somethings, and previously shopped Target in Woodland for others. My shopping behavior has not changed, just where my tax dollars go has changed. People are not standing in line to buy cars, we need revenue from somewhere, because as sucessful as our downtown is…it doesn’t support our city expenditures.
I’m giving my tax dollars previously spent in Woodland to Davis now, how is that a bad thing? I shop downtown for somethings, and previously shopped Target in Woodland for others. My shopping behavior has not changed, just where my tax dollars go has changed. People are not standing in line to buy cars, we need revenue from somewhere, because as sucessful as our downtown is…it doesn’t support our city expenditures.
Sorry, didn’t mean to hit the button twice!
If a couple of downtown businesses wind up closing because of Target, so what? It’s not like downtown is offering us reasonable prices and parking. I, for one, am pretty impressed by the new Target – especially the grocery section. I had no idea Target planned to have *real* food, like produce and meat. The prices are almost as good as Wally except it’s a much shorter drive. Unlike the local grocery stores, you don’t have to buy two gallons of milk to get the low price per gallon. Who can argue with a price of $1.75 for a big box of store brand frosted mini wheats? Not me. Gotta love those big boxes and their one-stop shopping.
Gotta love it, gotta love it when alot our local businesses close in the downtown area, gotta love it when your local grocer shuts its doors. But at least you get to buy your cheap milk and frosted mini-wheats, that’s what is most important.
David said a week or two ago people were starting to use the Vanguard to promote the other blog, so I think this was his solution.
[i]David said a week or two ago people were starting to use the Vanguard to promote the other blog, so I think this was his solution.[/i]
Why not go ahead and let people promote the other blog? In the academic world, we view citations as a good thing. Cooperation is the whole point.
If people cross the line from citing The Davís Voíce to spamming for it, that’s not so good. However, comment registration will make it easy to control for that. I really don’t see the problem with relevant links in the comments.
For those interested, here is a Google search ([url]http://www.google.com/#q=”Confessions+of+a+Target+Shopper”&fp=1[/url]) that gets you to Sheryl Patterson’s article about Target in “the other blog”. Basically Patterson says the same thing as Tanya Perez: “I was totally against Target, now I can’t stop myself from shopping there.” I have seen this pattern before; the New York Times interviewed a woman in some East Coast town with exactly the same behavior after she lost a fight against a big-box store there. Personally, I think it’s ridiculous. It’s completely ridiculous when people not only don’t stick to their own business, but also don’t know themselves very well.
Does this link work? ([url]http://www.davisvoice.com/[/url])
Wow, I had no idea.
Hey David, we all make mistakes. Blocking a link to [b]www dot davisvoice dot com[/b] is a boner on your part. You should rethink that decision.
What I have found in looking at [b]www dot davisvoice dot com[/b] is that it’s not very good or very interesting. I haven’t gone back for that reason. You really have no reason to fear competition from a lesser product.
Wow, I can’t even type davis no dot voice as one word on here. You really blew this one.
Now that we’ve established the policies on this blog, perhaps we can get back to the issue at hand, I’m appalled that Target would be littering the streets using non-recycled paper. I sent an email to complain.
I am concerned about what the fresh foods section of Target might do to the south Davis Nugge. And I do not like that the plans to have a fresh foods section were not made public until well after the election on Target. Didn’t they not mention that until just a few months ago?
In fact Barbara, didn’t they specifically promise to limit the food section for that very purpose?
Normally wouldn’t do this, but my niece was born a couple of hours ago, Sydney Elizabeth, first niece on my side of the family…
[img]images/stories/sydney_elizabeth.jpg[/img]
[i]I had no idea Target planned to have *real* food, like produce and meat.[/i]
That’s interesting, JayT. When I saw the food section at Target, my main thought was that Nugget has nothing to worry about. It might be great if you just want to grab frozen dinners and a cucumber, but it isn’t good for much more than that.
On the other hand, it is easily the best place in Davis to buy housewares and clothes. It is also nice not to have a wild goose chase for different types of durable goods. I do not enjoy going to Gap for clothes, then Ace Housewares for kitchen utensils, then CVS for school supplies. After all, is that good for the environment? DDBA should stick to things that big stores don’t do very well. Watermelon Music is a great example of what local stores should be like.
Regarding Target: I haven’t been to it yet. However, if you don’t like the store, then don’t shop there. It’s pretty much like http://www.d*visvoice.com/. If you don’t like what they have to say, then just don’t go there. It’s moronic to campaign against a store or a competing website.
Speaking of new places to spend money in Davis: I cannot recommend enough the outdoor dining experience (when the weather is good, as it was yesterday) at Village Bakery’s new location at 403 G Street. Some of you probably don’t recall that Chuck Roe owned that house and had planned to give it away for $1 to anyone who would move it to a new location in a traditional Davis neighborhood. Chuck had hoped to build an office building there, with retail/restaurant on the ground floor. But that fell through due to the economy, and he sold 403 G to Aziz (I can’t recall his last name). Aziz then remodeled the house (beautifully in my opinion) and has recently opened it for a great dining experience, indoors or out. It really looks gorgeous.
The house itself had a lot of historic merit. It was a craftsman, built in 1914 by one of the pioneer Davis families, the Grieve family. The Grieves were early hoteliers in town. They owned and operated a giant hotel near the depot called The Buena Vista. That hotel burned to the ground in the years prior to incorporation. (The reason Davis became a city in 1917 was to achieve much better municipal fire protection.)
You might wonder, why did the HRMC not try to prevent Chuck from moving the house or Aziz from changing it the way he did? The answer is context. Because of the Jack in the Box, the 4-story McCormick Building, the Theater/garage/Dept of Ag complex and the buildings immediately north of 403 G, the context of a home in a neighborhood of homes was entirely lost. It still had some merit due to its connection with the Grieves. But it was not itself all that unique architecturally; and with no context in its setting, it did not rise to the level of historic preservation.
That said, I think the remodel is a superior alternative to everything that might have happened otherwise. It would have been nearly impossible to change it the way Aziz did, if it had been in a traditional neighborhood. (If it had been, I would have opposed its changes.) Yet changed as it is, and because the restaurant is so good, it should be a successful business for a long time. And I recommend everyone give it a try.
Re Tarzhay, and Patterson’s and Perez’s conversions, it reminds me of the many times I see former “Save Our Stores” activists shopping at the Oak Tree Plaza Nugget.
@RR Thanks for the recommendation, been meaning to try it out.
I remember all the fear that Borders would put our independent bookstores out of business. It didn’t, although many years after Borders opened the economy did kill some independent bookstores. And let’s remember that the Carousel stationary store died (a huge loss to our community, in my opinion) as a result of the economy (or a landlord’s desire for higher rent), well before Target opened.
There is little overlap between the quality level of the merchandise sold at Target and that sold by our downtown businesses. The Davis Target seems to be bringing home business that would otherwise have gone to the Woodland Target or Woodland WalMart, or that would have gone in the past to Gottshalks or to Mervyns in Woodland, reducing driving to Woodland and increasing tax dollars for Davis. Target may take a little business away from CVS and RiteAid, neither of which are downtown businesses.
The bigger threat to downtown businesses is the lack of adequate downtown parking for longer than two hours.
Yeah Keith, you’re absolutely right. Getting more for my grocery dollar is very important to me and I’m sure it is to a lot of other people too, especially people shopping for larger families. Somehow I don’t see the likes of Safeway, SaveMart or Nugget closing the doors because of competition from Target or Wally. They’re parts of big chains and can well afford to lower a lot of their prices if they need to in order to stay competitive. If it makes you feel smarter or better than the rest of us to pay twice as much for something because it’s from a *local* grocery store, then go for it.
[i]Re Tarzhay, and Patterson’s and Perez’s conversions,[/i]
The most disappointing thing is that in some cases, there has been no real conversion. Maybe these three people truly have changed their thinking, but certainly in some cases, it’s “Save me from myself! I don’t make sense!”
In other words, there are people who enjoy fighting against big stores, then when the stores open they enjoy shopping there. The fact that it’s contradictory is an afterthought.
To change the subject a little bit, congratulations to David for becoming an uncle. That topic could reasonably be made a separate post.
here’s my email to inquiries@powerdirect.com
_____________________________________________
Hi Target Marketing,
Nice of you to introduce your new store with “door-hangers” here in Davis, but your fliers were not printed on recycled paper. You promised a “green” Target in our community, we expect you to live up to your promise. If you continue your abuse of natural resources I and many of my neighbors will boycott your store as a matter of principle and will use your example to educate our fellow citizens. Hopefully, you might just take this as a corporate-wide lesson learned.
_____________________________________________
C’mon everybody…….