I have spent too many columns attempting to convince teachers that they needed to make concessions in order to save jobs. I am sure this has angered many teachers out there that feel, as I do, that they do not get paid enough for their work. In fact, I believe most public employees probably feel that way.
Unfortunately, right now we do not live in a time of plenty. We have to prioritize our spending. So it comes down to this, the city of Davis is planning to extend its current half-cent sales tax. The city of Davis to this point has not laid off a single employee. The school district is going to layoff 68 teachers this year along with 20 other positions. These cuts will devastate the school counselors. This is on top of layoffs last year and forced retirements and transfers the year before stemming from pink slips and proposed layoffs.
Here I am going to make a different argument, one that has not been made before. If we are going to extend a tax on the citizens of Davis, I would rather the $3 million in tax revenues go to the schools to prevent the loss of teachers and other jobs than go to the city. I would like to ask firefighters, managers, and department heads in the city make $3 million in concessions to prevent the loss of city jobs.
If we get to choose where our money goes, I choose to the schools not the city.
I found myself moved by some of the comments made by Karl Ronning, a math teacher from Davis High School who presented a teacher perspective on concessions.
He argues that teachers take a concession every time they do not get COLA.
“For as long as I’ve been a teacher in Davis, teachers have never received more than COLA in any given year. COLA is not a raise, it is as stated, a cost of living adjustment which is meant to be applied to all the pieces of the budget including step and column maintenance.
When COLA has not been applied to teacher salaries, as has been the case in the vast majority of teacher contracts, teachers are giving an ongoing permanent salary concession. Over the last fifteen years, this practice has resulted in a conservative estimated salary reduction between $9000 and $11000 for each cell on the salary schedule. This translates to between a $4 and $4.8 million savings for the district this year. “
He continues:
“Over the last 16 years, the top teacher’s salary has increase 16% while the top administrator’s salary has increased 89%… Perhaps if teachers too had such salary increases, we would be more amiable to salary concessions.”
In the meantime, we have seen over the last decade, exploding city employee salaries that far exceed inflation.
The result is a chart that looks like this:
The first thing to note is that teacher’s in salaries are actually slightly above parks and finance in average salary very low on the pay scale. However, the typical city employee gets between $26,000 and $36,000 in benefits whereas the typical teacher is getting just over $11,000 in benefits. The city’s health insurance package is somewhere around $18,000 per employee, per year, the teacher’s is just about $6000.
I will also note that the distribution of salaries is fairly normally distributed. Median salary is $68,000 meaning half the 439 teachers in the district make above and half make below. The median total compensation is $79,510.
One could argue that this method distorts the pay scales since there are people at the top mixed with people at the bottom in the case of the city.
So let us show some employee positions that have comparable salaries as teachers. And then some who make roughly the same in total compensation as teachers.
The point here is not to disparage city workers, but to demonstrate how teacher compensation compares with city employee salaries and benefits.
The general complaint has been comparing teacher salaries to administrator salaries, but the problem is that across the board in all professions we overpay top executives. However, the appalling thing is how little we pay our teachers in this town compared with city employees.
What people really need to start understanding is that while schools get a good deal of state money, increasingly we are augmenting that money from local pockets. During these times, we do not get to spend money as we would like. So what we need to start thinking about is what we can cut to save the jobs of teachers. The city is proposing re-upping their sales tax. The sales tax the first time largely went to pay the salaries of fire and other high level city employees. Perhaps I would prefer that money or money like it to go to the schools.
The PPIC came out with a report this week that show that Californians are willing to raise taxes in order to pay for schools.
“When asked which of the four main areas of state spending they would most want to protect from budget cuts, 58 percent choose K–12 public education—the area most Californians have wanted to spare each of the nine times PPIC has posed the question.”
It continues:
“Across political parties, and regional and demographic groups, residents are most willing to pay more taxes to maintain funding at K–12 schools, with 79 percent of Democrats, 58 percent of independents, and 49 percent of Republicans saying they would be willing to do so. Prisons and corrections garner less than 15 percent support for higher taxes across parties, regions, and demographic groups.
On the flip side of this question—cutting spending to help reduce the budget deficit—Californians are least supportive of reductions in K–12 schools (82% oppose, 16% support) and largely opposed to cuts in higher education (65% oppose, 32% support) or health and human services (62% oppose, 34% support). A large majority (70% vs. 27% oppose) favor spending cuts in prisons and corrections.”
At the local level, I am sorry to the city employees who I think work hard and are entitled to a decent living, but we do not have the resources to pay for everyone. If I get to make a choice, I am choosing teachers over park maintenance people. I apology profusely to the park maintenance people, but that is what I believe the right thing to do.
Unfortunately, the city is going forward with a renewal of the tax increase without even having this conversation. I think this community needs to at least discuss what it’s priorities are right now before we throw more money onto the table. We do not have money to pay for everything.
One thing you left out David is that teachers only work 9 months out of the year, unless they opt to teach summer school for which they are paid extra, so that would project out to nearly $100,000/year salary. I agree with you though that most of the extra sales tax should go to the teachers instead of having the city throw it down some rathole. But the teachers need to understand that they too have to participate and agree to the 2.5% cut in order to save jobs. Many Davis voters have seen their pay and benefits cut and our dollars only stretch so far but we’re willing to pay the extra sales tax and bonds if the teachers will show that they’re willing to also take some hits.
I think it’s difficult to start playing with how long people work, how many months etc. Every job in that respect is different. Teaching is not 9 to 5. There is grading, there is prep time. So while they may only work 9 months, they are also working a considerable time when they are not on the clock. They don’t get overtime for that work.
I remember as a teaching assistant, I would teach three one hour classes and be ready to fall over at the end of them. I also lectured for Don Winters one year in which I did about four or five classes, and was ready to curl up afterwords.
My point in this was to show where their salaries are compared to city workers. I’ve argued from the start that they need to take a 2.5% pay cut. But guess what, that only gets us $1 million, that still means they will lose 52 teachers, even with that pay cut.
If we are going to approve taxes I’d rather it be for schools rather than the city right now.
rusty49–Did you read the article above? Did you translate the constant hemorrhaging of teacher salaries compared to other city workers? Are you satisified that tree trimmers and secretaries (as honorable and wonderful professions as they may be) make more money than teachers?
There is this resentful perception that teachers have three months “off”. It takes time to wind down, to wrap up a school year, and then it takes time to rev up and get ready for the following school year. The reality is that the actual rest time is more like the 4 weeks between closing one year and the opening of the next. And the kids’ vacation times–when your family is probably actually taking a vacation–are also work times for teachers. Teachers, despite the appearance you so resent, are not getting away with *anything* and do not deserve to be constantly at the bottom of the pay chart.
It is such a relief to see someone finally stand up for teachers. Thank you to the author.
I’m 100% in agreement. High quality schools are obviously important to Davis (both to the upbringing of our children, and the maintenance of high property values). The state budget problems are not going away anytime soon. Rather than beating up on teachers, and letting the quality of education erode, we should be passing a special schools tax. 3 years of begging teachers to take pay cuts and begging community members to donate is too much. It’s time to put a structural solution in place.
I happen to be married to an elementary teacher and my daughter teaches high school English who are both very good at what they do. Yes at times they both put extra time in at night but hardly anything overwhelming. The first year had substantial prep time but after that they’re both able to pull from lessons on file so prep time is at a minimum. They both are off and done with school from mid June to mid August and that counts “wind down” and “rev up” time with 2 weeks off in Dec. and a week off in April plus all of the State holidays, sick and floating days off (I won’t even bring up the teacher “workshop” days). They both say that the pay isn’t the greatest but the time off makes up for it. Yes I agree teachers deserve more pay because of the schooling it took to become teachers, but that said you also have to consider the time off when calculating teacher’s pay.
Owning a home in Davis I already pay on three school bonds and an extra 1/2% sales tax so at what point are the taxpayers bled dry? There’s plenty of money already allocated in our Gov’t, it just needs to be budgeted better and the waste cut out. If we keep just adding taxes our Gov’t will never cut the fat.
David, You state that the City has not had to lay off even one employee. I think if you look over the last 5 years, you will see a slow attrition of staff – positions frozen and left unfilled as people leave, fewer or no short-term employees (i.e. Interns), etc. This is how UCD intends to achieve its goal of a 20%(?) reduction in staff & faculty – just not hiring replacements as faculty retire or leave. This is slower and not so dramatic as laying people off, but, in the end, it achieves the same result – fewer people doing the same work. Add furlough days onto that and you have fewer people doing the same work in fewer hours. This is what has been happening at the City and also at UCD.
The school district intends to do the same thing – having fewer people doing the same work. This will be done by increasing class sizes from 20 students to 30 in K-3 and 28 to 32 in higher grades, etc. The only difference is that this cannot be done gradually and will result in layoffs.
“teachers work only nine months a year”
How many months/days do fire fighters work? Good teachers study and prep at least part of the summer.
According to David’s data teachers make about as much in wages and benefits as tree trimmers. While I think our tree trimmers do a good job (except when they killed the tree in my front lawn) I do think teachesr are more important.
Why is the California doing so poorly? Our poor K-12 education system is part of it. Teachers salary is only part of the story of course and good techers need to be rewarded, but I’d like to see a more reasonable distribution of salaries here.
Ryan: Correct. The city has reduced it’s workforce by freezing new hiring and not filling positions after retirements/ transfers. However, that is not the same as layoffs.
“There’s plenty of money already allocated in our Gov’t, it just needs to be budgeted better and the waste cut out.”
The discussion is about the Davis School System – not “Gov’t in general. Have you really looked in detail Davis School District financials? if so please explain where the waste is because I do not see it. The State might be able to move more money over to help out – a shift from the bloated “justice/prison complex” to education would be a move in the right direction. In the meantime the schools need more money!
I question if Davis can legally pass a sales tax that can go to DJUSD. I don’t have a reference to prove or refute, but I have heard that such an action is impossible. San Francisco USD is one of the few places that does such a thing (1/4% sales tax toward public schools), but I think it was passed by the county. SF city and county cover the same area in SF’s case.
Owning a home in Davis I already pay on three school bonds and an extra 1/2% sales tax so at what point are the taxpayers bled dry? There’s plenty of money already allocated in our Gov’t, it just needs to be budgeted better and the waste cut out. If we keep just adding taxes our Gov’t will never cut the fat.
Part of this question is also do you want to wait for the state to make things right and let the local school district go to hell while you wait. It’s a tough question, but so far a critical mass of Davisites choose to support the local schools.
Yes, and if we as citizens keep putting up more money the Gov’t will never pull from the “bloated” wasteful programs and put it towards education because we always end up patching the holes. At some point we’ll reach the breaking point, it’s closer than you realise.
wdf: It would not be a sales tax, but something that would basically take the money that was going to the city and putting it towards the school district.
My point is I’m reluctant to give money to the city when the schools are crippled and imo, a higher priority at the moment.
Rusty: I’m not talking about giving more money, I’m talking about taking what money we are already giving to the city and give it to the schools instead.
I think it’s difficult to start playing with how long people work, how many months etc.
Actually this is a valid argument if viewed objectively.
Most teachers get about 9 weeks off (45 workdays days) for the summer holiday. Then based on the 2009-2010 DUSD calendar: (http://www.davis.k12.ut.us/district/planning/files/19E7FBCC45084358B34A00345EC74414.pdf ) we see that they also get 27 paid holidays. For a normal 8-5 job there are 2080 available work hours. Subtract the 576 holiday hours from 2080 and we get 1504 total work hours. $79,510 / 1504 equals $52.87 per hour.
Compare this to the MOU covering the water distribution maintenance worker (http://cityofdavis.org/cmo/hr/pdf/dcea-mou.pdf ), assuming 10 year of employment, he/she would get 20 vacation days and 14.5 paid holidays for 276 total hours off. $77,162 / 1804 equals $42.77 per hour.
Doing the math this way seems to invalidate the entire premise of the article.
Yeah but you are failing to add in roughly 3 unpaid work hours per working day in grading and prep time, over and above the normal 8 hour day. That rapidly closes that 576 “holiday hours”.
Also you linked to Davis, Utah not California.
David, hardly 3 hours per day, (not even close) like I said I have two teachers in my family and I guarantee you they don’t have three hours of grading and prep time every night. That whole three hour thing is something alot of teachers would like you to believe but not true in most cases.
I think we are getting off track with this discussion. The bottom line is teachers get paid what tree trimmer get. If we are going to re-up taxes, I want the money to schools not the city.
“Yeah but you are failing to add in roughly 3 unpaid work hours per working day in grading and prep time, over and above the normal 8 hour day. That rapidly closes that 576 “holiday hours”.
In addition, consider the stress level of the jobs. A teacher needs to manage 25-30 kids and their parents – it really is a tough job. They do take work and anxiety about problems home each day. A water distribution worker deals with water and pipes – when the work day is over it is over. Also good teachers continue to upgrade their skills by taking courses – most take the courses during their “time off”.
Continuing education is generally necessary for teachers just to “keep” their jobs. The cost of those courses is never fully subsidized and the time spent in classes and in study is not compensated. My neighbor just went through a mandated ESL training and spent a couple months cramming for it like a college sophomore – on top of her regular middle school schedule and duties. She also regularly brings home loads of papers to grade and, despite being a 15-year veteran does spend time prepping and considerable time finding and gathering supplies that budgets have cut out. What has happened to education in California is a crime, from the top state to a bottom-dweller. David, you have this one exactly right.
Also you linked to Davis, Utah not California.
Whoops. Yes I did. It is suspiciously difficult to find this type of information for any CA school. In any case, I assume that the real Davis CA school calendar is not much different.
I think we are getting off track with this discussion
David, with all due respect, this is exactly on-track for the discussion. The level pay means nothing if not a factor for the hours worked. I know a construction defect mediator that charges $600 per hour, but he only works about 500 hours per year. Hoes does his $300k annual comp compare with a small business owner netting $500k per year who averages 70 hours per week with zero vacation time?
Yeah but you are failing to add in roughly 3 unpaid work hours per working day
I think this is an exaggeration. Rusty49 paints a different picture. There is no doubt some teachers take work home. Also, I know teachers who spend some of their own money for classroom supplies not supplied by the district (I think these are write-offs, but still there is expense). So, let’s say for the sake of argument that teachers pay is offset by some reasonable assumptions for these things. It still seems to invalidate your argument that teachers are paid less than these other city positions. You can still make the case that teachers should be paid more, but on an hourly-basis, I don’t see that they make less.
In addition, consider the stress level of the jobs. A teacher needs to manage 25-30 kids and their parents – it really is a tough job.
Show me a worker that complains about too much stress on the job, and I will show you a worker who is either:
1)In the wrong job
2)Burn-out and needs to find a different job
The only exception to this would be if the worker was faced with significant additional challenges other than the normal ebb and flow of workload and issues.
When a worker likes the work, he/she extracts energy from the work and uses it to metabolize the normal stress inherent in the job. Think about emergency room medical professionals… how do they handle the extreme stress that comes with the job? Last I checked, an emergency room nurse does not make substantially more than a veteran teacher. When an employee complains about the normal stress of the job it can mean the job is extracting too much energy from them. This means they will likely under-perform compared to their potential. Some are so talented that, even so under-enthused, their 75% performance is equal to the average 100% performance. However, most teachers do damage to students passing through when they are under-enthused about their jobs. Complaining about the stress of the job may be a cry for attention, but often it means they are missing the queues that they need a change in career.
“When a worker likes the work, he/she extracts energy from the work and uses it to metabolize the normal stress inherent in the job. Think about emergency room medical professionals… how do they handle the extreme stress that comes with the job? Last I checked, an emergency room nurse does not make substantially more than a veteran teacher.”
I am sorry but that comment sounds like BS. Besides we were comparing teaching jobs to city jobs. However. since you brought it up I do the taxes for two 30 year old women – both have been working 4 years and one is a teacher while the other is an emergency room nurse. Both have stressful jobs, much more than many of the City of Davis jobs. Furthermore the nurse makes twice as much as the teacher – clearly reflected on the 1040 form.
For considering fair compensation, I would that teachers typically need an extra year of full-time education beyond a bachelors to get their teaching credential.
Last I checked, an emergency room nurse does not make substantially more than a veteran teacher.
An interesting issue w/ nurses is that there has been a nursing shortage because nurses who are qualified to train/teach new nurses make more money being nurses than they do teaching in the classroom at a college level. It has led to situations where many nurses end up getting hired from overseas to fill that shortage.
David,
I like the concept of the article, but it’s hard to imagine a mechanism for making such a transfer happen in Davis right now; it looks like the city is inclined to hang on to what it has.
One example of where a city transferred money from a city rainy day fund to a school district in such a situation was San Francisco in April of 2008. It tansferred close to $19 million to save laying off a few hundred teachers.*
The reason that SF had that money was due to a voter approved Proposition G from 2003 that obligated the city to save extra money during good economic times. As long as we’re working with the proposition system, maybe a similar proposition for the city of Davis would be worth considering.
*See the S.F. Chronicle, Aril 25, 2008 by Jill Tucker
I’m glad to see you’re talking about actual salary concessions rather than playing this furlow game. I looked at the contracts for Yolo county and the various unions and was shocked to see that all but ONE actually forewent a COLA for one year. This union was the prison guard’s union. I was quite surprised actually. All the other unions took a couple days furlow in exchange for a few more days paid vacation. So in essence, they took a few paid vacation days off and called it a furlow. There have been no costs savings what so ever to the tax payers, only a reduction in services.
If the teachers are making on average 68k, that’s quite a bit. My proposal is that all the unions making 40k and above should take a 1.5% salary reduction for this coming year and forgo COLA’S for the next two years.
If all unions agreed to this salary concession, we’ll be able to become fiscally sound. By playing this furlow game, we’ll only extend the problems.
Everyone else has suffered, it’s time for the top earners to take their cut as well. it’s only right and it’s only fair
Melanie, Since Yolo County does not have a prison, I don’t know what you are referring to. And, if there were, what would be the “reduction in services?”
The “furlow”(sic) is a cut in pay for employees. I don’t know of any Yolo County employer that has increased vacation time to offset furlow time. In essence, employees are getting laid off, but spreading that time over the year (furloughed) instead of being laid off for 2-4 weeks in one shot. However, their job description does not change and they are still responsible for everything they were before. They are getting less pay, for the same duties, but, as a concession, getting some unpaid time off.
At UCD, this cut in pay starts at 4% for those making under $45K and increases up to 16% as salaries rise. No one is exempt. You want everyone to take a 1.5% cut, which will hurt those making lower salaries than those making higher salaries.
State workers are taking a 15% cut in pay, with 3 furlough days per month. How would a 1.5% cut reach the same cost savings?
I think City workers are taking a comparable cut in pay already.
What you are proposing is a tax 1.5%? That would be the same as a broad cut in pay. Call it what it is – an income tax of 1.5% for just city, municipal, state, & education employees. Let’s see if ANYONE supports that.
[quote][i]”teachers work only nine months a year” [/i]
[b]How many months/days do fire fighters work? [/b][/quote] Davis firefighters are scheduled to work 10 days out of 30, about 121 days a year.
However, they get 14 paid holidays, so that takes them down to just 107 days a year.
Additionally, they get (depending on years on the job) around 20 days of paid vacation, taking them down to 87 days a year.
They also get paid sick leave, whether they use it or not. They also get paid overtime no matter what every work period for a minium of 12 hours of paid overtime.
Of the 87 days — that is, less than 3 months — keep in mind that they are on duty for 24 hours. However, they are paid their full wage for the 8 hours they are sleeping and the 3 hours they are eating and any time they are watching TV or shopping for food or just sitting around waiting for a call. And of the calls they respond to, the vast majority are medical calls, in which they end up watching the paramedic* on the ambulance care for a patient.
*All firefighters in Davis are EMTs. The ambulance service has one EMT and one paramedic, which takes much more medical training.
Okay sorry, the yolo county jail not prison. Yolo county has a sherriff’s department and the jail has a prison guard union. I took at look at the contracts..Yolo county HAS increased vacation time to offset furlow time. It’s paid vacation. They get paid to take a day off. An increase in vacation time which is paid, is a paid day off.
I didn’t say EVERYONE, I said everyone making more than 40k. There’s ALOT of people making more than that. There has already been an increase in sales tax, vlf fees, court fees, tickets, a huge cut in services to schools, students, special needs students, mental health services, dentical, welfare benefits…people on welfare who are already so close to starvation received a 5% cut in their tiny checks.
So even with all those cuts in services, and increases in taxes for everyone we are still in a fiscal crisis. Hmmm gee why? Because the public workers and unions have refused to make the proper concessions to keep this state affloat
Instead of agreeing that we should work together, they have been willing to sacrifice their junior members in the union and were willing to see the decrease in services to the very people they are supposed to serve.
Once again, everyone else has taken their pay cut, it’s your turn Ryan.
ps. i’m disgusted that the increased sales tax went all to the bloated salaries of public officials and workers… OUTRAGEOUS…you got an increase in pay and we got a decrease in services. OUTRAGEOUS.
Oh yes, I was speaking to a retired prison guard the other day. I asked her if she would be willing to take a small cut in pay in order to balance that budget and save jobs.
You know what she said? She said that she would rather they cut half the jobs than take a pay cut. I countered that how about if they cut the top tier jobs so that less jobs would be cut and more people would be able to work.
As a person who had been working a long time and earned her seniority, she was not happy with this idea, but realized that the thought of losing her job was hard to swallow It gave her a little empathy for the other people that were faced with losing their jobs.
What was really sickening to me is that she was so willing at first to let other people lose their jobs than take a tiny concession.
I’m sure the thought of a small decrease in salary is hard to swallow, but what’s even more difficult is to see more people get fired every month.
The loss in taxes to state and fed. from these lost jobs will be much greater than a straight cut across the board to those earning over 40k.
A suspension of COLAS for the next two years will help to balance the discrepency between govt. revenues and employee payrolls.
It only makes sense
The state employee gravy train has resulted in an attitude of entitlement and selfishness. As long as people have theirs and theirs only, they don’t care about others.
This kind of attitude has resulted in a lack of empathy, compassion and COMMON SENSE…perhaps the continued budget cuts and lay offs will help the California public unions come to their senses and make the necessary concessions to bring California back to fiscal health.
“Once again, everyone else has taken their pay cut, it’s your turn Ryan.”
Melanie, you are clueless.
Okay Ryan,
I don’t know you. You’re right. I’m clueless about you and your job, but I am not in any way clueless about the spending problem in this govt. If we are not willing to increase revenues that can sustain these bloated salaries and salary increases then we need to stop the bleeding out.
It’s really and truly a state of emergency and i know you don’t want the unions to have a paycut, but unless you have a better alternative,
I see no other than a modest pay cut and freezing of COLA’s untill we can figure this mess out
Once we have been stabilized, I think we can slowly start focusing on growth.
The first thing is that we can’t be dependant upon growth as a model of sustaining salary increases. It’s sounds much like a ponzy scheme. Constantly dependant upon and sources of revenues to pay the dividends of the original investors.
We should find a way to exist within our means.
sorry to say but this means sacrifices for all not just the weakest.
Why is the California doing so poorly? Our poor K-12 education system is part of it. Teachers salary is only part of the story of course and good techers need to be rewarded, but I’d like to see a more reasonable distribution of salaries here.”
80% of the budget goes to the teacher’s salaries and unions. The rest goes to buildings, upkeep, administration and various student services like counselors.
This is an unfair proportion. More ought to actually go into student services and students. I agree with Rusty 49. The tax payers are being bled dry and at this point, the teachers need to make their concessions. Does anybody really think that the citizens can pay anymore taxes???
Why is it that university teacher’s salaries are being cut so deeply while the elementary and highschool teachers aren’t going to budge?
I’m dissapointed that you’re doing a right about face turn on this issue David.
If the teachers would rather lose 68 academic positions and another 28 administrative and custodial positions than take a pay cut, it would be clear at this point that the teachers do not have the welfare of their students in mind.
It would be great if teachers could all get paid 100k per year, (the good ones only) and it was based on actual merit and productivity rather than seniority. It would be great, but we’re not there and won’t be for a while.
We can’t afford it.
bottom line, the money’s not there.
for all the govt. unions, not just the teachers
If Melanie is on SS/SSI/Medicare, and is upset about government employees, she should realize that anyone in those programs are being heavily subsidized by other taxpayers…
I believe the city actually did lay off some people and reduced some positions to 75% and 50% as well as implementing furloughs (and maybe also eliminated some positions when people left?). I dont know how much of a % furloughs come to-maybe 3-4%?
hpierce,
no i’m not on ssi/ss/medicare.
those programs save lives and help those who cannot help themselves. those programs give people the bare minimum to get by. and yes those programs are heavily subsidized by taxpayers, but if you work for those programs that provide services to people on govt. assistance, then really what are complaining about? it’s people like them that give you your job? if anything, you’re just on another form of welfare. so what you have a job, but without prisoners the prison guards wouldn’t have their jobs, without mentally ill people (disgusting dirty old men psychiatrists) wouldn’t have their fantastic pensions,
without people on welfare, welfare workers would not have any jobs, without students, teachers wouldn’t have their jobs either and the list goes on and on and on and on, about how many people are on the dole.
once again the system of slavery, in which workers (government workers ) get to look down their noses, as if they are somehow better than the very people which they serve and are dependant upon. As if they are somehow better than the people they serve.
teachers too, treat certain kids like crap, consistently and routinely fail the children, yet at the end of the day get to keep their pensions and high salaries..
in addition to lousy teaching,they routinely engage in and partake of the atmostphere of bullying and social stratification, so that when these ill equipped and failed children enter into society, they are unable to work and be productive members of society. These children either become once again victims of the system of slavery by succumbing to homelessness, crime etc etc.
These children that have been failed by teachers and the “education” system are once again rounded by by various state agencies, be it prisons, welfare institutions etc etc, and once again become victims and bullied by the very people that claim superiority over them, but quite frankly wouldn’t have their job, were it not for the tragic victims of our failed governmental agencies and the failures of the employees to serve them.
it all starts in school. so any how, the point is, you create victims only to feel good about yourselves, but don’t kid yourself, you are no better mr or miss public union employee, than the scum you serve on govt. assistance.
the question would for the rest of us, is..who gets to feel good about themselves and who gets to feel like shit about themselves.
for me this isn’t a question of who’s better than the next, it’s a question of doing what’s right.
so anyway,
the bottom line is…there are only a finite amount of resources. the scapegoats, the easy targets, the people at the bottom have already had to take their cuts in vital services.
it’s now time for the people that are paid by the government to provide services to the scapegoats and tragic examples of failed education, to take their fair cut.
Just like you all talk about how the rich should pay their fair share in taxes, untill that happens, untill everyone votes for senators that are willing to pass a law that would make the rich pay their fair share, UNTILL THIS HAPPENS, California will be in a state of financial crisis.
it makes no sense, that people get COLA’s year after year after year, when there’s no money to pay for it.not sense at all..why are you being so defensive hpierce…who are you anyway?
teachers too, treat certain kids like crap, consistently and routinely fail the children, yet at the end of the day get to keep their pensions and high salaries..
How would you know if teachers are doing what they’re supposed to be doing?
in addition to lousy teaching,they routinely engage in and partake of the atmostphere of bullying and social stratification, so that when these ill equipped and failed children enter into society, they are unable to work and be productive members of society.
I know of at least one school in Davis that is doing a lot of anti-bullying curriculum. Just one school; but maybe there are others.
Melanie I couldn’t agree with you more. IMO y’all are just a bunch of substandard employees. Public employees and welfare queens are one in the same, leaching off the government taking as much as you can.
you losers are all part of the problem pointin fingers at the next poor sod.
jeez what a pathetic state of affairs.
Now why would I pay more taxes for more laziness, welfare queens and incompetent workers? If I receive an application from a former state employee, I don’t care if they worked as a firefighter, a police officer, or teacher, I throw that application out. I know I’ll be hiring a lazy, incompetent worker with a sense of entitlement and demand for unreasonable pay. Hire the mentally ill. You get a great tax credit, and can abuse the loser all you want.
Next, scrap all social welfare programs. Housing subsidies, food stamps, and unemployment is a total waste of money. From the workers that provide these services to the letches that receive them, it’s a matrix of waste and feebleness.
Let em take care of themselves. If you don’t work you don’t eat. If there’s no work, tough doodoos, create a job.
Education is obviously a waste of money in this state so I don’t even need to explore this option. If you’re too dumb to pick up on what the teacher was too lazy to teach you, then off to the work house for you.
All losers should be either put in labor camps, prisons, or the military. The military’s budget is wayyyyy to big. Good God, look at the various facets of military. Just think how much money we sink into the cia’s budget, the fbi, national security and onnnnn and onnnnnnn and onnnnnn and onnnnnnn.
With the new arrivals of lazy losers on welfare, the military will save so much money by paying them what they think they’re worth. The best way to save money on a new employee is to get harvest desperation and low self worth. Downtrodden people on welfare are great subjects to take advantage of. I’m sure this will really cut down on the military budget. Pay them minimum wage!
Of course a compromise to avert all these cuts would be great, but you’re foresight is as useful as your hindsight. You’d rather hold on desperately to your contracts.
It’s making me sick. You people really don’t know how good you’ve got it. You really should be greatful instead of demanding more money from a wellspring that dried up a long, long time ago. It dried up when you idiots voted for Reagan for governor.
Welcome to California. The greatest political conundrum.
“Ranking 49th out of 50 states is an indication of the state’s deteriorating educational status in recent decades, according to “California at the Edge of a Cliff,” by Thomas G. Mortenson.”
Wdf1..California’s academic ranking amongst the States is a good indicator of the mediocricy amongst some teachers. Of course, there is the issue of hispanics and illegal immigrants over running the system as well.
good point mr. rotten
California’s academic ranking amongst the States is a good indicator of the mediocricy amongst some teachers. Of course, there is the issue of hispanics and illegal immigrants over running the system as well.
What was used to make that ranking? If you’re talking about spending per pupil, then your number is about right. But that kind of number may not equal academic performance.
Why are you singling out hispanics as an ethnic group of blame here?
WDF,
Sorry to dissapoint you, but a token anti bullying curriculum won’t do anything to change people’s attitudes. Usually this kind of curriculum focuses on the less socially acceptable kids and they get targeted as the bullies.
While I agree that yes, they bully, it still lets the kids off that are higher up on the social strata. Usually the rich caucasian kids slip by un noticed while the poorer groups (usually minorities but not always) bear the brunt of the blame.
In a way, the anti-bullying curriculum can turn out to be just another form of placing blame on the kids that are “less than” the others. Just another form of bullying in itself.
Of course the program has to be administered properly, or it can turn ugly.
Sorry to dissapoint you, but a token anti bullying curriculum won’t do anything to change people’s attitudes.
I see. So it’s really token curriculum? How would I know if it’s good, authentic curriculum? How can I tell if the program is being administered properly? There’s no ugliness in the results?
Here’s discussion of average teacher salaries in Sacramento area districts:
[url]http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2502276.html[/url]
Average salary for DJUSD in 2008-09 is $66,211.
In addition, consider the stress level of the jobs. A teacher needs to manage 25-30 kids and their parents – it really is a tough job. They do take work and anxiety about problems home each day. A water distribution worker deals with water and pipes – when the work day is over it is over. Also good teachers continue to upgrade their skills by taking courses – most take the courses during their “time off”.
Alphonso please keep in mind that that Water worker is also working in a confined space, in a trench with shoring. The trench is full of water/mud he is wet, slippery, cold and trying his best to get the water back on in a minimum amount of time with no contamination. He has heavy equipment working all around him and its noisy. Also how often do the teachers get called in the middle of the night? Weekends? Holidays?
Also that Water worker is required to have continuing education credits to retain his certification
David:
My question is the most basic: what can I, as a home-owner citizen of Davis and a parent, do about this? I give my $1/day every year to the Davis Schools Foundation, but it doesn’t appear that money, however well-intentioned, has had ANY impact.
My son has received a first-rate education here, and I’m grateful for his wonderful teachers every day. But what happens when he finds out that tree-trimmers and water workers are held in greater respect (as measured by dollars earned) by the City of Davis than are his teachers? Can we maintain the same level of excellence we’ve enjoyed in the past?
How can we, who are completely fed up with the machinations in this supposedly-educated community, make our voices heard? The Davis Schools Foundations obviously isn’t the answer. How can I assure that the same quality of educators will look to Davis to teach in the future, if they realize that their work is not valued by our city?
What can I, myself, do, other than continue to pay property taxes and give to $1/day to DSF?? I’ll do it………..
Thank you
Rackvet,
“In addition, consider the stress level of the jobs. A teacher needs to manage 25-30 kids and their parents – it really is a tough job. They do take work and anxiety about problems home each day. A water distribution worker deals with water and pipes – when the work day is over it is over. Also good teachers continue to upgrade their skills by taking courses – most take the courses during their “time off”
Every job is stressful, not everyone is lucky enough to get three months off, in addition to vacation time, public holidays, sick days etc.
Teachers are demanding, as well as other unions that we continue to funnel more of our hard earned money into these giant sand pits of wasteful spending in exchange for reduced services. This is ridiculous. Y’all should try and work in the private sector just to see how good you all have it.
We’re lucky enough to get 2 weeks paid vacation. We routinely have hiring freezes, wage increase freezes. If we’re paying taxes and gettingo our salaries frozen, then why the hell should you get your salary increase at my expense?
I’m tired of having to pay all these taxes for substandard services. If being a teacher is so stressful and difficult, come on over to the private industry so you can get a course in stress.
No way. I’m sick and tired of you people asking for more money. It’s time for a serious intervention. NO MORE GIVING IN TO THESE THUG GOVT. UNIONS.
johnnyrotten: If you find public school teachers so dispicable, corrupt, hateful, etc., then maybe it would make sense to boycott the hiring of any employee in your private business who was a product of a public education. After all they are bound to be inferior workers by your logic.
You have a penchant for overgeneralizing — hispanics, teachers, government workers, illegal aliens are all one way in your head.
If you’re too dumb to pick up on what the teacher was too lazy to teach you, then off to the work house for you.
Teachers that I know in the Davis schools are mostly very hardworking and dedicated to their job. If they’re doing substandard work, then please point to an example of what Davis schools should be.
How can we, who are completely fed up with the machinations in this supposedly-educated community, make our voices heard? The Davis Schools Foundations obviously isn’t the answer. How can I assure that the same quality of educators will look to Davis to teach in the future, if they realize that their work is not valued by our city?
What can I, myself, do, other than continue to pay property taxes and give to $1/day to DSF?? I’ll do it………..
The biggest problem is that state politics and tax rules don’t allow for stable funding of schools.
In addition to local efforts to address the shortfall of money from the state, like DSF fundraising, there are some groups who are pushing for substantial reform of state government that might ultimately allow for more stable funding.
Here is one organization locally that is working toward that direction:
Saving California Communities: [url]http://www.savingca.org/[/url]
Probably this caught the attention of some already:
Obama to Seek Sweeping Change in ‘No Child’ Law
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/01/education/01child.html?partner=rss&emc=rss[/url]
Most notable is eliminating the requirement that every single last child in U.S. public education be proficient or above by 2014. NCLB should be acknowledged for raising standards and expectations in public education, but the 2014 deadline was the kind of ridiculous absolutism that undoes social and fiscal values. If my kid flunks and drops out of school in 11th grade, then he and the school is judged a failure under NCLB. But what if he goes back a year later and gets his GED in night school? There are many gray areas to human nature that don’t go away just because we refuse to acknowledge them.
Johnnyrotten
The Private sector is motivated by profit. The public sector is motivated by service. The idea that you would pay less and get better service if a private contractor took over any job that Publics Works handles is naive.
It’s best to reserve judgement unless you spent a week or two on such a crew.
Also, if you had a decent union, you might have sick leave, vacation days, and paid holidays.
I don’t need a union to get sick leave and vacation days. Public works DOES subcontract it’s labor. They pay for some assholes to come round and remove green waste, and then sweep the streets the next day. Waste management in Davis takes 28 dollars of the 70 bucks fee for public works. They are just as inept and incompetent as the public works department. The city would be better off gettin rid of the service and green waste and just having us throw it in the bin or compost all the green waste.
As far as the public sector is concerned, if you all keep on with your outrageous cola’s and pensions, and cash outs your govt. will go bankrupt. Whether you’re based on “service” or profit, you can’t deny that money plays into the equation.
Let’s do a basic money management course.
If you can’t afford something, you might be able to put it off, or get a loan, but eventually you’re going to have to pay on that debt. Methinks the time is now. If not now, a couple of years from now. Perhaps then the wimpy majority on CC will be able to stand up against the union thugs
This town is seriously out of whack. Can we fire the top tier of city managers and then contract out their jobs to pros from Seattle or Portland?
An article at the Davis Voice discussing past and future parcel taxes for DJUSD:
[url]http://www.davisvoice.com/2010/02/minding-q-and-w-and-davis-students/[/url]
Agenda for Thursday’s DJUSD board meeting at 7 p.m. Summary: it’s all about the budget:
[url]http://davis.csbaagendaonline.net/cgi-bin/WebObjects/davis-eAgenda.woa/wa/showMeeting[/url]
The importance of maintaining our already large, and getting larger, class sizes IMO far outweighs the desire to not layoff any city workers, regardless of category. Teaching our children is a far more important job than driving around in new pickup trucks. Actually, I would argue that what a teacher accomplishes over a school year is far more useful to Davis than what the average new Davis firefighter does over a calendar year. And the firefighter is making 3-4 times what the average new teacher makes. I realize that all that training for Armageddon, and high profile weekend parking at the Market Place shopping Center is expensive, but the money being spent on that is completely out of whack with this community’s values. Disproportionate work loads, overall utility of the work done favors teachers by a large margin over any City employee. Then why are teachers the only ones getting laid off (and in large numbers)? Once again, prima facie evidence that the overall system is broken with no sanity in sight. Sigh
Plankton: According to the PPIC survey that Greenwald references in the article above, a majority of Californians agree with you. But our state budgets aren’t coming out that way.
Here are a couple of links to the survey itself.
Summary:
[url]http://www.ppic.org/main/pressrelease.asp?p=990[/url]
Full report:
[url]http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/survey/S_110MBS.pdf[/url]