Enough has been made about the possibility that mail-in ballots are less secure than other forms of voting that it seemed like a wise idea to speak with Yolo County Clerk Freddie Oakley, so she could explain what her office does to protect the integrity of the process.
The Vanguard spoke on Wednesday morning with the county clerk, who told us, “I know that this is a lively concern, for a lot of people. We can only go so far to allay people’s concerns.”
“If you do posit a scenario involving a conspiracy or a crooked election official,” she said, “you can build a scenario that is plausible. That would be true, however, at the polling place as well.”
She noted that you could have crooked poll workers and there are a lot more poll workers, 500, than there are those working on processing and counting the ballots in the present election.
“I would say that the likelihood of a conspiracy scenario is greater in the polling place,” she added.
The county clerk then walked the Vanguard through the process that begins when they receive a ballot in the mail and do the preliminary work by removing the privacy seal for the signature.
There is a process where they visually compare the signature on the returned ballot to the signature in their records. There is a process they go through if those signatures do not match, which includes the clerk reviewing and comparing the signatures. If there is still doubt, they actually contact the voter to make sure that it is his or her signature.
“Seven work days before the election we have staff working in teams – so they can keep an eye on each other – who will now open the envelope, remove the ballot, set the ballot in one pile and put the envelope in a trash bag,” Ms. Oakley told the Vanguard.
“That’s the point at which the name and all identifying information is separated from the actual ballot,” she said.
This is the point where critics of the vote-by-mail process suggest it is possible that poll workers could look and see who or what someone voted for.
Ms. Oakley acknowledged that it was possible, but then added, “They would have to do that in the presence of another worker who is sitting right across the table from them, and of the supervisor who is circulating throughout the room where we’ll have maybe four or five teams of people looking.”
“They’re under pretty close scrutiny,” she said. “The bottom line is they’d have to care and the fact of the matter is we think they don’t.”
“These are all people who are sworn deputies and they’re committing a felony if they muck around with the ballot,” she said.
But still, that is the point where the possibility exists for a problem, and Freddie Oakley did not deny it. “Absolutely, that possibility exists,” she said.
Freddie Oakley suggested there were other less secure methods, including the military which faxes in their ballots, but added, “But the fact of the matter is we’re all sworn. We don’t do it. It’s against the law. And we really and truly do value the privacy of every single one of the voters.”
The next concern is the question as to who the deputies are. These are apparently people who come back election after election to volunteer to help count ballots, because they think that the work is important and meaningful.
“The majority of them don’t even live in Yolo county,” she said. These are people who, by and large, would not know who the voters are anyway.
“They range from single moms who come back and work for us for elections to supplement the family income, to housewives,” she added. “Not a single one of them is a political activist.”
Freddie’s Oakley’s chief of staff Tom Stanionis chimed in, “We have had people who are politically active who have worked for us – but they created more problems because they’re slow because they care too much about the issues rather than just getting the work done.”
Freddie Oakley made it clear that they were not problems because of fraud reasons, but rather because they would carry on political conversations while they attempted to work, which slowed them down and created problems.
“We never keep people who show any hint of political activism,” Ms. Oakley added. “What we have had are cases of people who will sit and chit chat while it’s going on… we just won’t have it. It’s production assembly line work and we have to keep up production.”
“There is a point at which the privacy issue could be corrupted,” she said. “We have taken steps to [mitigate that possibility] and we do it the same way that every other county in California does it. The majority of it is enshrined in the election code.”
The next layer of protection is that of public observers. The Grand Jury was there last Friday when they opened the bulk of the ballots.
She said that in general, as was the case last week, when two members of the press including Jeff Hudson from the Enterprise, and two members of the Grand Jury, observed the process for three hours, the observers are not there the entire time.
However, she said that they were welcome to stay and she offered to feed them lunch.
“Come on down,” she implored, “it’s like watching paint dry but come on down.”
In November 2008, the Yes on Prop 8 people observed the entire process. Mr. Stanionis noted, “They were bored to death, but they were here the whole time.”
Ms. Oakley added, “We never had an observer say we think you should do this differently. Or we’re concerned how this is done.”
That is the point of the Grand Jury’s observing, but she noted, “We in fact had a grand juror who was so impressed by the way we did things that when her term on the grand jury was over she asked whether she could work for us at election time” and she now is a special assistant to Tom Stanionis.
Hopefully, this paints a fuller picture of what happens. In our view, it is plausible that someone could look to see how a specific person votes. But that seems a very remote risk.
First, there are safeguards that make it improbable that this would occur. Second, the penalty is relatively severe if they get caught. Third, for most people, no one would care how they vote and would not know who the person was anyway.
Are there chances for the process to go awry? Certainly. You are trusting the county clerk to perform an extremely important job overall, and if she were to permit this kind of fraud to occur, then that would probably be the tip of the iceberg.
So for me, if you believe that there is even a possibility that Freddie Oakley would allow her employees or deputies to look at the ballots, then you probably should have more serious concerns about her ethics overall.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
I think the biggest vote counting fraud… involved those who counted the ballots in the 2000 election in Broward, Miami Dade and Palm Beach counties, but I think that was largely the exception, not the rule.
[quote]There is a process where they visually compare the signature on the returned ballot to the signature in their records. There is a process they go through if those signatures do not match, which includes the clerk reviewing and comparing the signatures. If there is still doubt, they actually contact the voter to make sure that it is his or her signature.[/quote]
What process is in place to make sure only one ballot is cast?
My concern was the state of the ballot when it arrived. The flap was partly detached and it wasn’t obvious how the ballot should be closed. We ended up taping it shut. Hope it still gets counted. I think the packaging could use some attention.
Years ago when I lived in Pennsylvania our company had a very generous program for community service paid time off. As a result I worked at the local polling place, and over the years did all the various jobs that can be done at a polling place. My observation of the various procedures (from the point where the citizen voter came through the door to the point where we sent the day’s vote tally information on to Harrisburg) was that there were a couple of places in the process where an inspired person could possibly learn more than they were supposed to. After reading your article David, my sense is that neither process is flawless and their respective vulnerability is about the same.
The first incentive is that to do so is a crime.
Second, I strongly suspect that they also check off that a voter has voted on the official Roster of Voters (this is also done in the polling place)
Third, I suspect that it isn’t a “trash bag”, but a security bag, that is probably retained for a period of time, in the event that someone challenges.
That being said, how would someone get a second ballot and envelope to vote the second time?
There is no guarantee of privacy in the home. There is no guarantee that a single individual in a household is only voting once. There is no guarantee that a voting individual in a household is truly voting their conscience, or signing their mail-in ballot without the influence or threat of another family member. Why should we think that all families are fair and healthy. The privacy afforded at the polling place might be the only place a person has to vote their conscience without influence or threat of abuse. No one can control or guarantee there is fair and honest voting behind the closed doors of a household.
“What process is in place to make sure only one ballot is cast?”
They wand in the names who turn in the ballot and they compare signatures.
“My concern was the state of the ballot when it arrived. The flap was partly detached and it wasn’t obvious how the ballot should be closed. We ended up taping it shut. Hope it still gets counted. I think the packaging could use some attention.”
The impression I got is that if there was a concern, there would be an attempt to contact the voter.
Matt… that was PA. Here in Yolo County, former County Clerk Tony Berhard and his professional staff came up with training (strongly urged, with some compensation) prior to EACH election, and training materials used in the polling place. Generally there are 4 poll-workers assisgned to each polling place, and at least three are supposed to be “on duty” at all times (although, if one poll-worker is off on a meal break, and IF no voter is present, occasionally one poll-worker might take a momentary break to ‘answer a call of nature’. I’ve worked the polling places in Yolo ~ 30 times, and have never once encountered a situation where only one poll-worker is present.
BTW, Freddie Oakley and her professional staff have not only continued Mr Bernhard’s focus, but have made some further improvements over the years.
I don’t really understand all the paranoia about “somebody” finding out how “somebody else” voted. Most people discuss quite freely their opinions on issues and on those running for office. I’m sure anyone who knows me already knows how I’m planning to vote on just about anything and if they don’t, they can ask. I’ll be happy to tell them.
[quote]That being said, how would someone get a second ballot and envelope to vote the second time?[/quote]
Easy peasy. Just ask for another one, by saying you lost or spoiled your ballot.
[quote]ERM: “What process is in place to make sure only one ballot is cast?”
DMG: They wand in the names who turn in the ballot and they compare signatures.[/quote]
Please explain what you mean by “wand in the names”…
[quote]There is no guarantee of privacy in the home. There is no guarantee that a single individual in a household is only voting once. There is no guarantee that a voting individual in a household is truly voting their conscience, or signing their mail-in ballot without the influence or threat of another family member. Why should we think that all families are fair and healthy. The privacy afforded at the polling place might be the only place a person has to vote their conscience without influence or threat of abuse. No one can control or guarantee there is fair and honest voting behind the closed doors of a household.[/quote]
This is actually an excellent point…
Most paradoxical. Folks who don’t trust the election process, but seem to want to vote on every issue . Maybe it’s something in the water….
After I sealed my ballot the envelope was already half open with the flimsy rip away seal on the back. I thought to myself how easy it would be for my ballot to fall out in transit. I didn’t want to tape it shut because I didn’t know if that might make it void or if a machine might be opening the letter. I have no doubt that once it reaches the County Clerk that it will be counted fairly, but what about the time from when it’s mailed to when it reaches the County Clerk’s office? The way the envelope was falling apart it would be easy for anyone to peek inside and toss all the ones that didn’t coincide with their views. If the envelope had been better secured it would’ve been much easier to determine that that it had been tampered with. David, I’m surprised you didn’t address this when you spoke to her.
Barb 03/01/12 – 08:36 AM.”My concern was the state of the ballot when it arrived. The flap was partly detached and it wasn’t obvious how the ballot should be closed. We ended up taping it shut. Hope it still gets counted. I think the packaging could use some attention.”
The perforations above and below the pull away strip on the back of the ballot are very fragile. This strip is there so staff can quickly open ballots. These perforations can easily fail during the mailing process, and leave the ballot wide open at the top* for easy viewing by anyone. I too had to tape mine shut. Please fix this!
__________
*Failure leaves the top portion of the flap with no connection with the bottom sealing strip
“They range from single moms who come back and work for us for elections to supplement the family income, to housewives,” she added. “Not a single one of them is a political activist.”
Boy, am I glad a guy didn’t say this!
Davis Enophile, why would you feel like people couldn’t share their political opinions publicly? We’re not living in a police state where you have to worry about being executed if you vote the “wrong way.” Most of the people I know feel quite free to discuss their opinions and policies and even if they don’t come right out and say it, those discussions make it pretty obvious how they’re voting on any issue.
Perhaps this is minutiae, but four years after the death of my wife I still get a ballot for her at every election. (She died in Davis and the death was recorded by the county). It would not be that difficult for me to vote twice if I wanted to This must happen to quite a lot of people in Davis and who knows for how many years? In the fall of 2011 I wrote to Freddie Oakley re this and the fact that the city and county rolls must contain many people who have died or moved out of the county. She responded by saying this was an interesting subject worthy of an Op-Ed that she would write one. I am still waiting.
I realize that weeding the voter rolls can be a complex process, but having done a little research I see no evidence that Yolo, or any other counties, do anything much to try and address the problem as prescribed in the state election laws. I mean, for starters, how difficult is it to have a computer link between the Recorder’s Office and the Health Department that as I recall keeps records of deaths.
[quote]Davis Enophile, why would you feel like people couldn’t share their political opinions publicly?[/quote]
I’m concerned about the underdog. You feel safe in public and in your house to share your conscience and share your opinions. You aren’t under anyone’s thumb. Feel good about that, feel fortunate. But can you imagine living in an abusive household? In that situation, before all mail ballots, an individual could vote in privacy, lie about how they voted back at home, and feel like they actually exerted some control over their lives.
Share how you voted. Be honest. Put out a lawn sign, wear a pin, and slap a bumper sticker on your car. That’s a privilege not everyone shares equally.
You have questions? I may have answers!
First – Total props to David but I did not say “housewives”. Tom Stanionis said that shortly before I told him to stop talking. He’s wonderful, but he shouldn’t say things like that.
Second – About the lousy perforations: We have been alerted to that problem by a number of voters, and have taken our printer to task. It will not happen again, and they reversed the charge for this order of envelopes. I was pretty steamed.
Third – You can’t vote twice under your name. When a ballot arrives, we make a computer record of its receipt and link that receipt to your voter record. If you lose your ballot and call us for a new one, we will send it, but we will still go through the receipt process, and If you have sent us two ballots, the system will alert us when we go to enter your receipt (long before your ballot envelope is opened) and we will set the new ballot aside and give you a call. This has happened only a handful of times, and it has ALWAYS been an innocent mistake by an extremely elderly person.
Fourth – Too true I cannot control what goes on in homes. If I could, there would be no child abuse and much less TV watching. I regret to say that we have “control” problems even in the polling place, where spouses will insist on “helping” spouses to vote. I advise my poll workers to stay out of it. Their safety is more important than attempting to alter someone’s family dynamics.
That said – Call us if you have any questions and please know that you really are welcome to visit YOUR election office.
Here in Yolo County, knowing Freddie Oakley’s fierce dedication to honest, fair and efficient elections, I have confidence that any voting system Freddie approves will fairly reflect the votes cast.
I suspect that Jose Granda’s real beef with the mail-in election is that it may produce a different result than an in-person election, due simply to different voter behavior and potential differences in the demographic distribution of voters. Which way and to what extent those effects are likely to affect the election results, I don’t know. However, I’m sure there are people who do know, or at least think they do. Which raises the question: to the extent that mail-in and in-person elections produce different results, which is more “correct?”
Does the elections office keep running tabs on who has voted (even if only aggregated statistics by precinct), and if so, is that information available to the campaigns?
Thanks Freddie. Your anecdote about some spouses at the polling place serves as evidence that I’m not making this stuff up. I’d just offer that it must be a whole lot worse behind closed doors at home.
So what benefit of an all mail ballot outweighs my concern? Is it just about money?
Le bon dieu alone can know what it is that troubles Dr. Granda. I just can’t understand why he seems to be unwilling to come to this office and watch us work in order to answer some of his questions and possibly allay his fears. I sometimes wonder whether it might be that some people just come from such a psychology of need that they cannot even imagine fulfillment.
As for recording who has returned a ballot envelope. Yes indeed, those data are the equivalent of crossing off voters’ names on the public index at polling places when they vote, and we do make them available (per law) to qualified recipients — the press, campaigns, etc. Not to be used for commercial purposes.
You can also verify if your ballot arrived to the Yolo Elections Office by checking here here ([url]http://www.yoloelections.org/vbmdb[/url]). If you’re concerned that your ballot hasn’t been received, you can call up their office and the staff will make arrangements for an alternate ballot if necessary.
[quote]Third – You can’t vote twice under your name. When a ballot arrives, we make a computer record of its receipt and link that receipt to your voter record. If you lose your ballot and call us for a new one, we will send it, but we will still go through the receipt process, and If you have sent us two ballots, the system will alert us when we go to enter your receipt (long before your ballot envelope is opened) and we will set the new ballot aside and give you a call. This has happened only a handful of times, and it has ALWAYS been an innocent mistake by an extremely elderly person. [/quote]
Thanks for answering my question…
Regardless of the outcome, it is a political mistake for Granda to use the ballot process criticism as his key argument for opposing Measure C… unless he has proof that there was specific malfeasance with this process (it seems that he doesn’t) or has retained a really good attorney who will file a suit that will successfully overturn the constitutionality of mail ballot elections (also seems unlikely).
[quote]Yes indeed, those data are the equivalent of crossing off voters’ names on the public index at polling places when they vote, and we do make them available (per law) to qualified recipients — the press, campaigns, etc. Not to be used for commercial purposes.[/quote]
Thanks, Freddie. I thought that was the case.
hpierce said . . .
[i]”Matt… that was PA. Here in Yolo County, former County Clerk Tony Berhard and his professional staff came up with training (strongly urged, with some compensation) prior to EACH election, and training materials used in the polling place. Generally there are 4 poll-workers assigned to each polling place, and at least three are supposed to be “on duty” at all times (although, if one poll-worker is off on a meal break, and IF no voter is present, occasionally one poll-worker might take a momentary break to ‘answer a call of nature’. I’ve worked the polling places in Yolo ~ 30 times, and have never once encountered a situation where only one poll-worker is present.
BTW, Freddie Oakley and her professional staff have not only continued Mr Bernhard’s focus, but have made some further improvements over the years.”[/i]
hp, what you are describing is pretty much the way it was in Pennsylvania back in the early 80’s. None of the poll workers were politically active. Nonetheless, there definitely were opportunities where confidentiality could be breached. Bottom-line its a human system being used by humans and administered by humans. That leaves room for human mistakes.
DE, Honestly – even if I were living in an abusive household, I still think I’d be capable of filling out and signing my ballot and getting it in the mail, even if it meant tossing it to a neighbor over the fence.
Herman and any others who are interested. Elections does not use (as I understand it) death certificates nor death notices to modify their rolls. A family member needs to fill out a form to notify elections, who will then followup and fix the rolls, as appropriate. These forms are available @ County Elections, and any polling place.
Thanks ERM
Someone who feels they can freely share how they voted with whomever should feel fortunate. They should also recognize that there are people less fortunate in their own community.
On an entirely different note, its one thing to request an absentee ballot, another to have it forced upon you. Having an official ballot arrive in similar fashion to junk mail seems a sacrilege. Another cheapening of the democratic process. I wonder how many ballots we could find going through the paper recycling?
Having trouble with this response function and my macbook air. Briefly, I now run the vital records function for the county, so we can use the death index with no problem. This was not so easy in the past. I have written and op-ed, but am waiting for the right time to submit it, not in the heat of this election, for sure. It is true that if you have family member die, give us a call if you can and we will get the process started. It’s legally a little complicated.
When my mother died we published an obituary and received a letter of condolences from Freddie Oakley. i assumed that meant mom was off the voter rolls although i would not be surprised to learn that she votes for Obama in Chicago, the city of her birth, in 2012, despite not having lived there since 1960.
Steinbeck wrote “A good organizer uses whatever he has…” I guess its true for poor organizers too. So complaining about the mail in process gives you something to kvetch about even though the process likely helped the no voters last time.
My take on the election is that all the anti-tax zealots voted no last time and this time as well but the yes voters were more complacent last time but won’t be this time recognizing how close it was. Still if you have a ballot and a yes vote take it over to the library on 14th street before Tuesday. Remember it takes two yes votes to cancel each no vote so it is essential that the yes people get those votes in on time. Vote yes for the kids!!!!!!