Our Social Darwinists Then and Now

William Graham Sumner was an American Sociologist who helped popularize social darwin theories
William Graham Sumner was an American Sociologist who helped popularize social darwin theories
William Graham Sumner was an American Sociologist who helped popularize Social Darwin theories

by Claire Goldstene

Over the past few weeks, listening to Congressman Paul Ryan has had me thinking about the place of Social Darwinism in American politics.

Ryan, the 2012 vice-presidential candidate and potential 2016 presidential contender, has rather suddenly repudiated his years-long fondness for dividing America between the “makers” and the “takers.” As part of this campaign at reinvention, Ryan recently reproached Barack Obama for “practicing trickle-down economics” that aid the wealthy and exacerbate inequality. Simultaneously, Ryan ripped the President for pushing an “envy economics” that promotes resentment of the financially well-off. The contradiction in these accusations could hardly be more telling.

Despite his professed new-found concern for those on the lower rungs of the economic ladder, Ryan has not turned any new leaf. The budget priorities he’s pushing in the new Congress — cuts to social programs for the poor and working class and tax breaks for the wealthy — embody his continued adherence to the Social Darwinist distinction between “makers” and “takers,” Ryan’s contemporary expression of the nineteenth-century distinction between the “fit” and the “unfit.”

The ideas that coalesced into Social Darwinism — as popularized in the United States by sociologist William Graham Sumner, businessman Andrew Carnegie, and Supreme Court justice Stephen J. Field — helped to justify the vast financial inequities that characterized the Gilded Age. It defended concentrations of economic power into corporate monopolies, and resisted efforts to alleviate immediate suffering and institute reforms that might mitigate some of industrialization’s more extreme consequences.

At that time, thousands of immigrants swelled the populations of cities, straining the inadequate urban infrastructure. Families and strangers crammed into small, dark tenements after working ten or twelve hours a day hunched over sewing machines or feeding blast furnaces. Meanwhile, a handful of other Americans accumulated enormous fortunes and resided in lavish mansions. In 1892, the average worker earned about $490 annually for a 59-hour work week while John D. Rockefeller collected $18 million in income that same year. In the name of laissez-faire, Social Darwinists applauded such disparities as the expected outcomes of a natural system of economic competition that identifies the biologically fit and benefits the social good by rewarding the most able, a system best left alone.

In Ryan’s current rendering of these ideas, “takers” receive government benefits, in the form of social programs like Social Security and Medicare, paid for from the tax revenue generated by the productive “makers.” Reminiscent of Sumner’s hardworking and law-abiding Forgotten Man, compelled by misguided humanitarians to aid society’s failures, Ryan’s “makers” are, in essence, robbed to support the less worthy “takers.” Mitt Romney, Ryan’s 2012 running mate, calculated that this latter group constituted 47 percent of Americans, those “who believe that the government has a responsibility to take care of them, who believe that they are entitled to healthcare, to food, to housing, to you-name-it.” Romney’s rhetoric takes legislative shape in Ryan’s budget proposals that lower taxes on top earners — the “makers” — and cut social programs for the “takers.”

Social Darwinists define the essence of life as an unceasing struggle for survival, at the center of which stands the inviolate individual. Any perceived intrusion, by government or others, into this natural process threatens the essential sorting of the worthy from the unworthy. Economic inequality, then, is simply the necessary consequence of a system designed to delineate the “fit” (the rich), upon whom the survival and improvement of the species depends, from the “unfit” (the poor). Hence, the consolidation of economic and political power in the hands of the wealthy — Ryan’s “makers” — rewards those whose financial accumulations mark their worthiness.

Such a view allowed Sumner to describe those unfortunates who commanded the sympathy of nineteenth-century social reformers as “the shiftless, the imprudent, the negligent, and the inefficient” and to bluntly declare that a “drunkard in the gutter is just where he ought to be, according to the fitness and tendency of things. Nature has set upon him the process of decline and dissolution by which she removes things which have survived their usefulness.” In other words, the drunkard should die.

Much more recently, in 2010, South Carolina Lt. Governor Andre Bauer remarked that recipients of government assistance are akin to stray animals. He went on to explain that his grandmother taught him not to feed strays because “you’re facilitating the problem if you give an animal or a person ample food supply. They will reproduce, especially ones that don’t think too much further than that. And so what you’ve got to do is you’ve got to curtail that type of behavior. They don’t know any better.”

This expresses the crux of the Social Darwinist argument, whether embodied in Sumner’s “drunkard in the gutter,” Romney’s “47 percent,” Bauer’s “stray animals,” or Ryan’s “takers” and “makers” — a biological imperative under the guise of economic policy. Those who do not demonstrate the requisite character traits that allow them to amass wealth should not survive, nor reproduce.

But we have today, unlike in William Graham Sumner’s time, a political landscape that requires a viable presidential candidate to reach a broader voting public. After all, Romney and Ryan lost in 2012 to Obama and Biden. Ryan’s noteworthy new rhetoric about reducing economic inequality may suggest something about both the historical and contemporary resistance to Social Darwinist ideas.

Claire Goldstene has taught United States history at the University of Maryland, the University of North Florida, and American University. She is the author of The Struggle for America’s Promise: Equal Opportunity at the Dawn of Corporate Capital (2014). Dr. Goldstene can be reached at claire.goldstene@yahoo.com.

Author

Categories:

Breaking News Civil Rights Sacramento Region

Tags:

125 comments

  1. BP

    I thought terms like this were now taboo on the Vanguard.

    Context is everything. Ms. Goldstein is quoting the writings of others who have used these terms, not calling any one by these names. An analogy for you to consider. It is illegal to call out “fire” in a crowded theater when one knows there is no fire. It is not illegal to say to a companion “I heard there is an amazing fire in this movie:.

    Hope that helps.

  2. It seems like a reversal of the actual meanings of the terms, doesn’t it?  Is the “maker” the one who physically creates the product?  Is the “taker” the one who becomes the middleman and does all the marketing?  (I apologize if I step on anyone’s toes by asking questions in a conversation that has apparently already tabooed terms.)

    At any rate, this whole “I make more money and therefore am better” idea seems to me to have a very long history.  This is how kings, and previous to them, god-kings, justified their power and position — it was their God-given right to rule over the hungry masses because they had been Chosen.  Social Darwinism applied in this way does not sound so far off from that belief structure.

    1. Or one could say the “maker” is the person out there busting their ass working 40, 50, 60 hours a week paying high taxes while the “taker” is sitting home watching TV on government assistance and living off of all the hard work of others.

        1. I know a lot of people who are very poor who work two minimum wage jobs at 70 to 80 hours a week and are barely scraping by.

          If they are working 70 hours per week at $9 per hour, let’s say they work 50 weeks per year (we’ll give them 2 weeks off), then they should be making $31,500 per year.  This is well above the 2014 poverty line guidelines published by HHS which are:

          One person – 11,670

          Two people – 15,730

          Three people – 19,790

          Yes, we know that living costs in California are higher than some other states, and housing costs in Davis are a bit higher than the surrounding communities.

          We also know that the minimum wage is going up to $10 per hour in 2016, so presumably these workers will do even better next year.

          If these workers are ambitious and motivated, they should be able to improve their skills and move themselves above minimum wage and advance to higher skilled and better paid positions.

        2. i realize that $30,000 is well above poverty, but it would be classified as very low income in davis.  you’d be able to reside at new harmony for example, i believe.  also, a lot of people who end up working 70 hours, they end up breaking down physically pretty quick.  and some of them do not get minimum.  i know there was a reasonably big sting in napa a few years back where they found all of these people getting paid like $5 an hour.

        3. DP – source, link?

          I did see a company that provides workers for the vineyards was just fined for not paying overtime, sloppy record keeping, no pay stubs, etc. approx $130,000?

        4. Topcat, they may also have a spouse that works 40 hours a week, a roommate that defrays costs, and transfer payments (social programs).

          Yes, that’s right.  I was trying to point out that David’s characterization of someone working 70 hour at $9 and “barely scaping by” seems a little farfetched.  There are almost certainly complicating factors unique to each individual. We would need to know each person’s circumstances to understand why they are having trouble getting by.

          Don’t misinterpret what I’m saying to imply that I think people should work 70 Hours per week on a long term basis.   I do not think that is a good way to live, nor is it healthy.  However; if someone is working to make a better life for themselves (perhaps saving money for a down payment on a house, or saving for education) it seems reasonable to work long hours for a while to achieve these goals.  Earlier in my working life, I put in long hours and did some unpleasant tasks in order to save and invest for my future.  I did not complain about low wages or being “exploited” because I knew that I was working towards a better future where I would control my own destiny.

      1. The problem is the wealthiest people avoid paying taxes.  Our country would be rich, our infrastructure would be repaired and our social services would be well funded if the corporations and the individuals in the top 1% (but recently Ive read it is the top 1/2%) just paid their fair share.  Unless you are a multibillionaire you should not identify with them–you are part of the rest of us.

        1. This is flat out false. Our taxes are highly progressive.

          “The top 1 percent of taxpayers pay more in federal income taxes than the bottom 90 percent. As you can see in the chart below, this is a stark change from the 1980s and early 1990s. But since the early 1980s, the share of taxes paid by the bottom 90 percent has steadily declined.”

          http://taxfoundation.org/blog/top-1-percent-pays-more-taxes-bottom-90-percent

          I believe the bottom 45% pay no federal income taxes, and part of this was due to George W Bush’s tax policies. Some think this is dangerous when almost 50% of Americans can vote to confiscate other peoples money while having no skin in the game.

        2. Bottom 20 percent
          Average income: $10,552.
          Average tax bill: -$284.
          Average tax rate: -2.7 percent.
          Share of federal tax burden: -0.4 percent.

          ___

          Middle 20 percent
          Average income: $46,562.
          Average tax bill: $6,436.
          Average tax rate: 13.8 percent.
          Share of federal tax burden: 8.6 percent.

          ___

          Top 20 percent
          Average income: $204,490.
          Average tax bill: $55,533.
          Average tax rate: 27.2 percent.
          Share of federal tax burden: 71.8 percent.

          ___

          Top 1 percent
          Average income: $1.4 million.
          Average tax bill: $514,144.
          Average tax rate: 35.5 percent.
          Share of federal tax burden: 30.2 percent.

          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/03/1-percent-taxes-2013_n_2802243.html

           

      2. Or we could get beyond sound bite negative terms and caricatures and recognize that most people are not walking stereotypes. Everyone who stays at home is not “watching TV” on government assistance ( which by the way is exactly what those on the right seem to be promoting when they say its ok for WalMart to pay below a living wage, because after all “aren’t there government programs to pick up the slack ?”) Many people who are at home are caring for the children of those who are out working. But we don’t happen to consider that a real job even though it is work, if they happen to be related. Also many who are at home are there because they are truly disabled.

        It is equally true that some of those at the top of the earning scale truly earned their money, but not all. Some make their money by exploiting the actual labor of others or by receiving disproportionately far more than their efforts are worth. Also claims that the upper middle class are “suffering” or “struggling” are based on an artificially high standard of living. I am unapologetic that I do not consider the inability to buy a mini mansion, or take yearly trips abroad, or buy a new luxury car every year, or perhaps send a kid to Cal instead of Harvard is really a “struggle” when some kids are having to take a trip to the food band to eat.

        Anyone, on either side, who is not willing to look at the relative meaning of “struggle” or who will only engage in sound bites and stereotypes is not addressing this issue honestly.

  3. A highly partisan, but well done article.  I love it!  Great job David!

    There are a lot of problems with this side of the argument though.  And it speaks to Paul Ryan and other modern, economically-savvy Republican leaders as the progressives and the old Democrat progressives rather stuck in a set of irrational historical arguments and being easily identifiable as the true wagers of class warfare.

    Fist, it is not the Gilded Age.  There are no more Robber Barons.  We have copious labor laws, labor unions and anti-trust laws.

    There was no federal income tax back then.  There was no corporate tax back then.  There was no social security.  There was no welfare.  There was no SNAP.  There was no means-tested-government-pay-for-everything-you-might-need-poor-victim-of-economic-circumstances.

    Today, the family income level of the top 10% is $150,000 per year.  The family income level of the top 5% is $190,000 per year.

    These are the people that Paul Ryan is supporting.  They are not Robber Barons.  They are regular working people… people that have generally had to work their way up starting at a minimum wage job.  They are the American middleclass and they are struggling big time these days (depending on where they live).

    We don’t really have many families that are struggling to survive on minimum wage.  This is largely a lie.  We have some (mostly recent immigrants that should consider going back to their home country because it is more expensive to live in the US).  But the first move toward honesty in the debate would require the inclusion of the value of means-tested benefits already provided.  For example, we just had the largest single tax increase in the history of mankind called Obamacare to help insure those 50 million uninsured (but less than 20 million have actually been insured which is what Obamacare opponents said would happen).  But the benefits are there. So now they have free or near-free healthcare to add to the means-tested list of government redistribution handouts.  Why is that not added to the list of other benefits to calculate the TRUE hourly rate equivalent?

    Without the inclusion of the value of the myriad of existing benefits, those that keep making this case that the “rich” need to be taxed more should be ignored.   They should be ignored simply because there is the proof that the value of the next tax increase will just be ignored by them.  There is proof that the people demanding the poor need more are stuck on a social justice crusade that has no accounting, no honesty and no end in sight.  It will never be enough until we reach that unattainable utopia of complete economic and social equality where we have completely run out of other people’s money and the system collapses as it has always collapsed when it attempts to go that way.

    There is a political class war being waged, but it is not against the takers.  The takers have been given more and more and more and more.  The takers have been given too much.  The war is against those workers in the American economy that have had the audacity to strive and struggle and make it to the middle class… the thing that all should be doing.  These people are the target of the social justice crusader today, not any Robber Baron.  If you are a successful 40-60 hour per week professional, they want more of your earned pay and more of your wealth.  And the real target they are eying is your 401k.   You worked your ass off and saved for your own retirement rather than winning the government employee lottery of a defined benefit pension… and now they want a piece of that too.

    Ryan has it right.

    1. But the first move toward honesty in the debate would require the inclusion of the value of means-tested benefits already provided.

      Yes, the value of the means tested benefits does need to be included.  My personal example is a close relative who is a single mother living on SSI disability.  While her cash payments from SSI come to slightly less than $12,000 per year, she gets a myriad of other benefits which give her a comfortable lifestyle.  She gets deeply subsidized housing.  She gets SNAP benefits.  She gets WIC coupons for free food.  She gets free healthcare through Medical. She gets disabled rates on public transit and she could use Para transit although she does not because she has a car.

      I tend to favor the concept of “a hand up, not a handout” to help the most disadvantaged people in society.  Rather than taking away opportunities and making people dependent, I would like to see more done to encourage people to become productive, get educated, and make good life decisions.  Perhaps I’m naïve about this, but that’s the direction I would like to see our political dialog going.

      1. You’re not naive. I agree! Side note, your relative will only receive WIC until her youngest turns five. I’m not so sure about SNAP. Does she have to show she is trying to find employment?  (Unless she is deemed 100% disabled, which is unlikely.)

        1. Does she have to show she is trying to find employment?  (Unless she is deemed 100% disabled, which is unlikely.)

          She is mentally ill and is considered 100% disabled although she is actually capable of doing a lot of things.  She does not have to look for employment and she has absolutely no interest in finding employment.  She is enjoying a comfortable lifestyle. Her child is 3 1/2, so she’ll get WIC benefits for another 1.5 years.

    2. “…saved for your own retirement rather than winning the government employee lottery of a defined benefit pension…”

      Sigh. Once again, you fail to realize I contributed my wages to my retirement. My wages, just like when you withold your own wages for taxes & get some of them back in a tax refund. It always makes me smile to read comments from the folks who did not save as much as I did as a state worker, then complain because I retired without debt at the age of 56.  You could retire, too, if you saved as much, or if you worked for the state. I helped many people in my jobs: veterans, people who were injured on the job, tax payers, and thousands of women, infants and children. I am very proud of the WORK I did. I did not win any lotteries. I worked very hard, and you are jealous. Think I’ll go out by the pool for a while, in my home that is paid off, sip some iced tea and think how fortunate I am to be retired, and spending my CA retirement in another state.  I would like to see all of you haters get by for even one week if all the city, state, county, and federal workers stopped working, and PERS stopped using its investment money.

        1. I get it, Don, but look how many times “maker” and “taker” have been used in this piece and the following posts.  When she said “haters”, and using Tia’s “context” comment in mind, I cringed slightly when I saw the use of the word “hater”, but I saw it in the context of Frankly’s takers/makers comments, I’d have given it a pass, unless you were also gently admonishing the “taker/maker” commenters, in the same manner.

  4. How many people do you know who work 70 or 80 hours a week at $9 an hour and live a healthy lifestyle? Why should anyone work that many hours in America? It is unnecessary. My own dad worked three jobs. He was a cop and had to work two additional part time jobs to support a stay at home wife with four children, sending three of us to college without any student loans. But he was often exhausted and seemed to lash out the worst at my brother. He was sleep deprived.  I don’t think it’s a balanced life, to work 70 or 80 hours a week, unless you really love your job.

    1. A long time ago I developed a radar for people having a problem being stuck in the past.  Read again what you wrote.  You are making arguments for the present by reliving your experience from the past.  Name a cop that has to work 60-70 hours today and is an economic victim.

      I work 60-hours per week.  Many successful professionals do the same.  So I am supposed to accept increased taxes on my earnings because I make more working those extra hours?  Do that and I will stop working those extra hours and join the takers.  And my business will slow and shrink and I will have to lay off people… so we have even more takers.

      That is the problem with socialism… it makes takers out of makers.  It punishes success and rewards failure.  It eventually runs out of other people’s money and then the entire system collapses.

      Equality in outcomes in unattainable.  The best we can do is work toward providing copious opportunity.

      People working $9 per hour to support a family, first let’s be honest that there are not too many of them except recent immigrants who are uneducated and only hear because they can make $9 per hour, but if not that then they have other problems that need addressing.

      It is really disturbing to me to read/hear this victim-making of hard work.  Is leisure time a right?  I think not.

        1. My initial point was the fact that we never seem to acknowledge the actual present progress and you double down on a story about the past.  David did the same thing.

          I have no doubt that there are families struggling to make enough income, but there are copious safety nets.  How many safety nets do we really need?

      1. I fully agree Frankly, take away the insentive for the “makers” to work and the whole thing goes to Hell including for those who choose to be “takers”.

        1. Great reference, Don.  Thank you!  I’ve been looking at it for the last 25 minutes or so, and a number of things “struck” me.  The BLS report is limited to “hourly” workers, not “salaried”.  I know of a few cases where employers classify their employees as “salaried” or “independent contractors”, just to avoid any ‘minimum wage’ worries.  If you still get a physical newspaper, the delivery person is deemed an “independent contractor”, and their income/hr worked is far below minimum wage.  More and more, I’ve seen these “independent contractors” going from school-aged kids, to supplement their allowance, to folk in cars who are adults.

          Another consideration about minimum wages.  Newspapers traditionally have paid kids a pittance to deliver papers.  It worked.  Kids with spare time, supplementing their allowance.  They are not generally “in poverty”.  For retired folk, looking to supplement their pension/retirement savings, etc., who are actually living quite well but seek to live ‘more largely’, less than $9/hr to keep active and make the difference between a trip to a State Park, and travelling the US, might be shut out if the minimum wage is increased, or hours reduced.

          “minimum wage” is not, IMHO a one-size-fits all.  There used to be a “training wage” for people who weren’t necessarily needing to fully support themselves or a family, but wanted to check out career options, learn a trade, get “spending money”. Unions generally oppose that.

          For a teenage “burger flipper”, looking to be busy, augment their allowance, in a household that has a total income of $150k (yeah, there are a lot of them), am not thinking $15/hour is a necessary thing.  For a “burger-flipper” with no other income, supporting a spouse and multiple kids, it’s crucial.

          But, if the two “burger-flippers” are equally productive, why would they be getting different wages?  Corporate “charity”?  Should we exclude young people from the labor market, labor experience, just because they don’t desperately need the income?  Should we just expect them to “volunteer” their time?

          Then there are the disabled/handicapped/challenged.  Some employers are doing a good thing by hiring those with “disabilities”.  Those individuals are may well not be as efficient or “flexible” as others.  If the minimum wage is increased on a “blanket” basis, will an employer have to “re-think” their ‘good thing’?

          Have no answers, but reading the report generated a bunch more questions.  Suggest that anyone serious about he issue (rather than knee-jerk reactions to minimum wage, one way or the other), take some time to read and cogitate upon it.

        2. I am very happy that I got responses on this “leisure time is a right”.  The fog is starting to lift.  The liberals are actually pushing labor behind the victim firewall… making actual work to be a form of unfairness and oppression.  I should have known when Nancy Pelosi commented that the 500K or so jobs lost from Obama care would be no problem because people would not be job-locked and could quit.

          This is astounding.  Really astounding.

          Where the hell do liberals think we will get the money to support a society of non-working people enjoying all that leisure time?  Why can’t they simply look across at Europe and note the drastic consequences of this?  No wonder there is not enough outrage about all the public sector employees retiring in their 50s with six figure incomes.  That is the utopia that liberals are striving for.  Did I say “astounding?”

          I think this point about leisure time being a right is very important.  It clearly delineates a worldview at odds with American principles.

          I think it is wrong… very, very wrong.  Maybe it won’t bother anyone reading this, but I think less of people that retire early or that chose to work less time than they otherwise could for no good reason other than they want to have leisure time.  Lazy and entitled are a couple of words that come to mind.

          1. I don’t know anyone who thinks leisure time is a right. That’s a straw man. But it is certainly desirable that people be able to retire with reasonable income and enjoy their senior years. You find that “astounding” and “at odds with American principles”? That’s been a goal of our society for generations. And a significant sector of our economy relies on people pursuing leisure activities.

            pushing labor behind the victim firewall

            This particular bit of rhetoric of yours is getting overused to the point that it has no meaning any more.

          2. To clarify, the only point I made regarding leisure time is that I believe studies show people are more productive and healthy if they have leisure time – I didn’t define how much time that was or what leisure entailed. Also, you never responded to the point made, you’ve only disparaged the notion in the abstract. Do you disagree that people are more productive if they have down time? Do you disagree that people are healthier if they have down time?

        3. To clarify, the only point I made regarding leisure time is that I believe studies show people are more productive and healthy if they have leisure time – I didn’t define how much time that was or what leisure entailed. Also, you never responded to the point made, you’ve only disparaged the notion in the abstract. Do you disagree that people are more productive if they have down time? Do you disagree that people are healthier if they have down time.

          Work 40 hours per week, get 2 weeks of paid vacation and 10 paid holidays work until you are 65 or 67, have a home mortgage paid off by that time, have a 401k that provides you enough income to live comfortably, but not lavishly, until you pass at 83 or 85.

          This is the average story of life that we should expect and demand.  Any leisure time outside that does not deserve respect, IMO.

        4. Frankly:

          I don’t see where anyone was advocating that leisure time be some kind of unlimited right. Don’s right–you’re setting up a straw man here that was never introduced.

          I mentioned leisure time as a right insofar as I feel it is heavily related to mental and physical health, and I think healthcare should be a basic human right.

          I also qualified my statement by saying that people are not entitled to leisure time that is funded by them not working at all. My comments were in the context of the previous comments about people working 50-70 hours a week to make a basic living, which should not be an expectation.

          Some of the attitude of commenters here appears to be that people need to work until the point of dropping if they are unable to get a higher-paying job.

          I keep expecting people to spout off: Are there no workhouses? Are there no prisons?

      2. “Is leisure time a right? I think not.”

        Of course one’s position on this is going to depend on where s/he falls on the political spectrum, but I (and others on this blog have argued similarly) am of the position that there are certain things that are human rights, including: enough food to sustain health, clean drinking water, education, and medical care/health.

        As others have argued on the Vanguard, there’s no reason why in a nation that is as prosperous as we are that we cannot make these things “rights.”

        And lesiure time is certainly an important aspect of a healthy mind and body. Here’s just one link that speaks to studies on the health and productivity effects of not having enough leisure time: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-working-6-days-a-week-is-bad-for-you-2013-11.

        Now, that being said I’m not advocating that people are entitled to have total leisure time off of the work of others, but rather that there shouldn’t be the expectation that working 50+ hours per week is something that everyone needs to do because leisure time is not a right.

        1. Even if leisure time is not a “right” enough studies have shown people are more productive, happy and healthy when they are able to have the necessary work-life balance that it would seem to be in society’s best interest.

          1. There are also whole industries (like mine) that rely on people having a reasonable amount of leisure time.

        2. Good points, David and Don.

          I was also reading an article earlier that mentioned something about the loss of X full-time jobs for every X # of jobs that have their FTE working 50+ hours per week, so maybe there could be more jobs to go around if more people took their time off.

      3. Frankly:  That is the problem with socialism… it makes takers out of makers.  It punishes success and rewards failure.  It eventually runs out of other people’s money and then the entire system collapses.

        I have problems with the general framework of conventional discussion of “social Darwinism”  and its implied connection to evolution of species.  It is usually cast as individuals prevailing against other individuals in economic competition, and their success is measured, more or less, by their incomes as the fruits of their effort.  That is one way to look at things, but it tends to excuse any consideration for how humans as a species survived against other hominids and primates to dominate the Earth the way we do.  We did it because we can work well together in social structures.

        Bees and ants did not succeed as species because individuals within those species had personal initiative and woke up early every morning and worked late.  Bees and ants have succeeded because individuals within those species work very well with each other.

        I hear these rants about socialism from you like I ought to flee whenever I encounter it (socialism), and yet when you look at socialist countries, such as those in Northern Europe, they seem to be doing quite well, producing SAABS, Volvos, ABBA, Nokias and Minecraft.  When are they going to collapse?

        1. Bees and ants kill those of their community that don’t work.  Your attraction to collectivism is frankly (because I am) quite frightening.  But you are in good historical company. Some are wired to keep trying the same in an endless cycle of failure.

          Those countries you mention are more committed to free markets and enterprise and economic growth and people working than are American liberals.  American liberals are more like the Greek.

        2. Frankly:  Your attraction to collectivism is frankly (because I am) quite frightening.

          Humans help each other and at some level care for each other out of human decency.  It is a natural impulse, and it seems to be something inadequately accounted for in your favored Randian philosophy.  We learn how to work with each other and make a contribution to society.  That’s what I’m talking about.  If that’s the collectivism you abhore, then I find that quite frightening.

        3. Did you note all those non-working dead ants and bees!?

          I don’t think this debate is really too difficult to understand.  There is a system that is democratic free market capitalism.  It is an imperfect system but it the best of all system, all of which are imperfect.  DFMC rewards value in the marketplace.  Those that like it have figured out how to get rewarded by it.  Those that have not figured out how to be rewarded by it, or that have figured it out but would rather do something else or would rather see other things rewarded… don’t like it.  They don’t like the profile of the winners and losers.  These “don’t like it people” tend to be liberals who tend to see the world through an equality filter.

          But let’s turn to another system… education.

          Liberals tend to protect the status quo of education.

          And guess what?  Liberals tend to do better in school.  They are better rewarded in academic pursuits.

          So the debate is not too difficult to understand.  Conservatives tend to like the system of capitalism because they have skills and abilities that are rewarded.   Liberals like the education system because there they have skills and abilities that are rewarded.  And both want the other reformed to be more fair.

          The difference is that changing the DFMC system to be what liberals demand would be devastating (lots of dead ants and bees), but changing the education system would actually help more people be better rewarded in the DFMC system.

          But liberals are resistant to that.  And apparently it has to do with this demand that people should not have to work so hard after school.  They should be given more leisure time.

        4. Frankly:  Liberals tend to protect the status quo of education. etc.

          First, you have a really bad habit of generalizing, labeling and judging based on your generalizations and labeling rather than focusing on addressing actual policy.  If your New Year’s resolution was to be less partisan, then I think you have already abandoned it.

          The problem with your view of education (one that embraces standardized testing, seemingly just because teachers unions don’t like) is that it is content centered.  It treats education as if you are downloading information into a child’s head.  It creates bad incentives that don’t align with reality.  There’s a lot more involved with education than curricular content.

          There is social and intellectual capital (even a certain amount of material capital) that is acquired from outside of the school environment, which interacts with and reinforces the school environment.  Some parents are aware of this and some aren’t. Regularly, lower income parents without much educational background do not or cannot provide this to their kids.  Examples of developing social/intellectual capital include reading regularly to your kids, interacting with them about homework and school, meeting teachers, school staff and parents of classmates, counselling your kids about how to deal with school, visiting museums, libraries, and concerts, discussing with and preparing your kids for realistic futures, developing good lifetime habits in them, introducing your kids to neighbors, talking with your kids about news and current events at an age-appropriate level.  These are examples of things that are unaddressed in your discussions about education policy.

          Vouchers and choice charter schools are not policies that show evidence of addressing these issues.  Very telling evidence of some of these issues was a study done of the reasons why parents chose the schools that they did in New Orleans.  A surprising result was how much non-academic factors played a role in the decision.  The initial premise of such a system was that test scores (pre-Katrina) were terrible, and that it probably indicated bad teaching and an overall bad education system.  So you give parents choice, they will choose based on test scores and academic profile, and then test scores will go up.  That premise misses what I describe above — the social and intellectual capital that is developed outside of school.  And other resources that I have raised before, such as access to good healthcare, diet, and home.

          When I introduced this study on the Vanguard before, Rich Rifkin blamed the parents for making poor choices.  But I think many of these parents are aware of their shortcomings and are actually making the best choice that they can for their kids.  And they prefer neighborhood schools that don’t necessarily demonstrate stellar academics as measured by standardized test scores.  But those are the kinds of schools (especially in poor neighborhoods) that have been deemed as failures and have been shut down in favor of reform initiatives that don’t actually focus on what the parents want.

      4. Frankly

        I think that in terms of current wages, your point about not looking to the past is relevant. So let’s look at the present. Information below from 2/2015

        Based on the most recent National Agricultural Workers Survey (NAWS)– a report published by the U.S. Department of Labor– farm workers work 42 hours per week and earn $7.25 per hour on average, but this “average” varies greatly. For example, workers who have worked for the same employer for multiple years earn more than other workers. Those who have been with an employer for a year or less earn an average of $6.76 per hour, and those who have been with the same employer for at least 6 years earn an average of $8.05 per hour.

        Annually, the average income of crop workers is between $10,000 to $12,499 for individuals and $15,000 to $17,499 for a family. To give you an idea, the federal poverty line is $10,830 for an individual or $22,050 for a family of four (in 2009).

        Thus, according to NAWS, 30% of all farm workers had total family incomes below the poverty line.”

        You and others frequently imply that the income of the upper and middle class goes to subsidize the “indolent” lifestyles of those in the bottom economic tier. I would like to offer a different perspective on “subsidization”. I think that the subsidization is often the other way around. It is the work done by those working for poverty wages that subsidizes the relative luxury in which you and I live. It is what means that we have low prices for our fresh produce. It is what means that we pay less for our clothing, electronics and any number of other goods that we consume, but have no idea of the discrepancy between what the actual producers are paid and what we pay, and where that money goes.

        1. The numbers don’t make sense for a “family”, because if both the husband and wife work 42 hours per week, that’s $22,000 to $25,000 on a yearly basis, if they work a full year, as many are seasonal workers. We also aren’t told if they are provided housing or food by their employers.

          You are the first person I have seen who has used the word “indolent”, and I haven’t read anyone saying anyone is lazy, either, so this sounds like a another purposeful exaggeration. What people have written is that we have illegal immigrants undercutting the wages of legal Americans and immigrants, cutting in line before those trying to come here legally, and and related costs.

          I personally know people who have tried to immigrate here legally from Central America and Europe, have tried for years, have spent money and hired lawyers, and got nowhere. How is that fair?

          Also, your false characterization of illegal immigrants as poorly paid farm workers is tired and a stereotype. Many work in the blue collar trades, and others in the pink collar trades, many of which used to be middle class jobs. (I’m all for providing better conditions for farm workers.)

          You are right, the price of a fast-food burger would probably go up if 30 million illegal residents weren’t here, and if more parents didn’t spoiled their kids and made them get a job in the real world.

  5. “…first let’s be honest that there are not too many of them except recent immigrants who are uneducated…”

    Oh how I wish some minimum wage non-recent immigrants (geez, once again, let’s drag immigration into the topic)  would reply to this. Ludicrous. You really seem to live in a little bubble.

      1. I don’t know about Sac, but in the Bay Area the going rate in some places is $11-15 per hour. Plus the guys I have chatted with said they often get lunch, tips, and they are given old TVs, furniture, tools, etc. when homeowners upgrade their belongings.

      2. …why are our borders being flooded with illegal immigrants looking for those jobs?

        Because the hourly rate for unskilled labor in Mexico and Central America is in the $2 per hour range.

        1. My wife and I clean our own house but we treat ourselves to a once a year total deep house cleaning.  I always end up paying $20 to $25 an hour per maid paid in cash that you know isn’t reported.