At a special 7:30 am meeting on Tuesday, the Davis City Council will hear two items, the first of which is the first action in response to last Saturday’s murder at KetMoRee.
Council will be asked to approve an emergency ordinance that would establish a 45-day city-wide moratorium on establishment or expansion of bars, nightclubs and restaurants serving distilled spirits, or restaurants exceeding 2,500 square feet. The vote would require four council votes.
It was just over a week ago that 23-year-old Peter Gonzales was stabbed to death following an early morning fight inside KetMoRee in downtown Davis last Saturday morning.
While 20-year-old Joseph Sandeno remains at large, the police announced three more arrests Friday and Saturday.
Detectives arrested an additional homicide suspect on Friday, identified as Victor Manuel Acosta Vergara (a 22-year-old male from Vacaville) in Fairfield. During the searches of various homes in Vacaville, detectives also located narcotics, large sums of money and a firearm.
Then 24-year-old Carlos Biviescas of Vacaville was taken into custody without incident Saturday afternoon in Vacaville on homicide charges. On Saturday night, 25-year-old Anthony Rivera of Vacaville was taken into custody on homicide charges. The previous Saturday, the day of the stabbing, they had arrested Martyn Contreras of Vacaville, then Zackary Sandeno on Monday. Police are not releasing the name of the person they believe actually stabbed Mr. Gonzales.
Earlier this week city officials met with officials from the Department of Alcohol Beverage Control (ABC). This would be council’s first formal action in response to the killing.
Staff writes, “Downtown Davis was the site of a fatal stabbing the evening (early morning) of September 19, 2015. This violent incident has triggered community discussion about the role of alcohol and nightclubs, particularly (but not exclusively) downtown, in Davis’s efforts to maintain a safe environment for residents and visitors alike.”
While the city has held policies emphasizing downtown as a retail and entertainment center, listing 91 eateries in the downtown, over the past few years, “City has seen an increase in the number of restaurants, often those serving distilled spirits, which serve as restaurants during the day and early evening, and transform to nightclubs after that.”
There are five ABC licensed premises located on G Street alone, between 1st and 3rd Streets. Staff writes, “Police Department data suggests that the aggregate number of incidents has not appeared to change in proportion to the number of liquor licenses, but the nature and characteristics of crimes occurring at these locations has, including an increase in the percent of cases that are violent or involve weapons.”
Staff adds there is a need “for increased community conversations regarding the overall safety of our downtown, and particularly regarding the number and type of licensed premises, and [for] City Council deliberation on nightclubs and alcohol sales and consumption in Davis.”
Assistant Chief Darren Pytel told the Vanguard that, contrary to what people may believe, the more people you get into a bar, because of the security inside, actually reduces the problems. So having more places can be a better situation than having not enough space and having people waiting in line, angry that they aren’t inside, having fun.
“Downtown is actually more orderly now that we don’t have all of the long lines in front of some of the bars like we used to,” he said.
However, the city staff argues that, by putting a moratorium on new establishments, they will effectively “press pause” on “establishment or expansion of bars, nightclubs, restaurants serving distilled spirits, or restaurants exceeding 2,500 square feet for forty-five days to afford the opportunity for additional analysis and community comment.”
The moratorium is only effective for larger facilities – over 2500 square feet. It will not “prohibit new or alterations or expansion of restaurants not exceeding 2,500 square feet, even if beer and wine are served. The small size of these facilities makes them unlikely to attract large or disruptive crowds, and, therefore, does not appear to significantly contribute to the current problems experienced in the City.”
Staff adds, “In addition, these uses make a significant contribution to the vitality of our downtown and neighborhood centers.”
Staff notes, “The moratorium can be extended by further action of the Council prior to the expiration of the 45 day period. It is critical to note that this moratorium will not cause existing facilities to cease operations.”
The police department has reached out the bar and restaurant community “to support a conversation on how downtown restaurants and bars can partner with the City to address security and nightclub related nuisance issues. The Police Department has already received preliminary agreement from several of the downtown bar owners to be personally involved in those conversations.”
The police department is working with ABC “in providing increased patrols in the downtown area to curtail underage and excessive drinking, the use of false identification to purchase alcohol, and ‘disorderly house’ issues that lead to increased calls for police service. The Police Department is also partnering with ABC on the TRACE Program, which involves conducting an investigation to determine where a minor received alcohol when there is an emergency involving that minor.”
Additionally, “the Police Department is awaiting final notification on receiving an ABC mini-grant to conduct alcohol/fake identification stings and ABC involvement in conducting IMPACT inspections, which are specifically designed to reduce alcohol-related crime in and around licensed premises.”
Not discussed here are whether the specifics of the incident that occurred at KetMoRee a week ago would be impacted by these kinds of actions
Staff notes that “the City does not have any ABC Type-48 bars, but one might potentially be permitted under the Core Commercial zoning regulations and staff recommends they be included in the moratorium.”
The recommended moratorium expires on November 13, 2015. The city council may extend the moratorium at a public hearing prior to expiration, for up to an additional 10 months and 15 days, for a total of one year. Thereafter, the council could extend it for up to an additional year, for an overall total of 2 years.
Staff adds that it “recognizes that property owners and restaurateurs have invested in Davis properties, building plans, and other financial transactions under the assumption that current regulations would continue. Building permits for one restaurant/nightclub have been in process since August. It is staff’s goal that the analysis and public discussion fostered by the moratorium proceed as expeditiously as possible.”
Staff would return on November 3 with a progress report and ordinance that would extend the moratorium. They write, “An option that is anticipated to be brought to the Council at that time is a modification to the moratorium, if it is extended, to provide an opportunity for affected business owners to seek relief from the moratorium through the Planning Commission Conditional Use Permit process.”
—David M. Greenwald reporting
““Police Department data suggests that the aggregate number of incidents has not appeared to change in proportion to the number of liquor licenses, but the nature and characteristics of crimes occurring at these locations has, including an INCREASE in the percent of cases that are VIOLENT or INVOLVE WEAPONS.”
Staff adds there is a need “for increased community conversations regarding the overall safety of our downtown, and particularly regarding the number and type of licensed premises, and [for] City Council deliberation on nightclubs and alcohol sales and consumption in Davis.”
Glad to see the City Council and the Davis Police Dept, together with ABC, are getting creative about ways to make the Davis downtown safer for customers at night. How many murders have to occur before action is taken?
“How many murders have to occur before action is taken?”
apparently that answer is one. it’s not clear to me what this is going to do however.
Exactly DP, one or two more murders I guess Davis will completely shut down.
If the comments below are representative examples of what is going on in Davis at some of the nightclub establishments, something serious needs to be done IMO. Apparently I am not alone in that thinking – customers think so too.
Small samplings of opinions from customers of KetMoRee from following website: https://localwiki.org/davis/KetMoRee
2010-05-06 15:09:19…I won’t be back. Why? In the desire to cultivate its nightclub business, Ket MoRe has has lingerie parties. Women who show up in scanty lingerie get in free and are eligible for prizes. Let’s exploit young broke college women by feeding them drinks if they show up wearing little more than a thong. I can’t support that.
2010-05-23 14:25:41…The focus for this restaurant seems no longer to be on food but rather on hosting night club events and selling alcohol to college students. I am especially disappointed in some of the events this restaurant holds (including lingerie parties where young women are allowed in free and men are charged large sums of money to gawk at the girls… a truly classy event). I’m all for letting people go out and have a good time, but let’s try to to find a way to do it without exploiting young women…
2011-03-04 12:05:10 This place is off putting in so many ways…unattractively drunk females stumbling about…I think the way in which the management and employees handle it is beyond unprofessional…KetMoRee doesn’t demonstrate even a slight care for them other than getting their money.
2011-04-24 02:44:18 The nightclub management is SO UNBELIEVABLY rude. They obviously don’t care about their customers or whether they return. Stay away from this place…
2011-05-13 12:15:37 …The bartenders are total creeps. One was trying to flirt with this girl at the bar and was giving her free drinks, and I’m no bartender, but he sure packed that thing with more hard liquor than would be safe for a girl her size…And on top of that the bouncers are complete and utter tools. They epitomize the term MEAT HEAD. They are incredibly rude and objectify the women. They ogle girls as they walk in, damn near undressing them with their eyes. They, too, try to flirt with the girls but in a much less discrete way. As in literally spanking some on the ass…
Small sampling of opinions form customers of Tres Hermanos at the following website: https://localwiki.org/davis/Tres_Hermanas
2012-06-08 12:43:07 …He also let in half of my friends and stopped the other half from coming in, WHILE letting two other girls in who cut in front of us RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIS EYES. After all this happened we also heard him say that he was only going to let in 2 more people and they had to be 2 good looking girls. By this point my friends and I were very upset and couldn’t believe he was discriminating people based on their looks. I’ve noticed other comments about the bouncers being very rude to the customers and I’m pretty sure it is the same bouncer doing this over and over. It was a very embarrassing night for me, the restaurant itself, and even the City of Davis…That one bouncer has ruined my perception of the type of people that work and run and this restaurant. Won’t be going back here. again…
2012-06-08 19:17:53 6/8/2012 Went here to dance last night hoping for a fun night with my friends. Here’s no happened: Bouncers were unable to maintain control of the line. (There were plenty of obvious cutters) Bouncers lack decent customer service and have obvious ego issues. Treated customers like trash. A bouncer threw someone out very aggressively, and the guy ran into people waiting in line trying to get in. If they treated us like that in person, I cannot imagine what they do to our food and drinks. My 2 cents: Stay away from this place
2012-11-19 17:00:37 …we can conclude that the people that work there are morally corrupt…there are some very disturbing patterns that are emerging about “team tres” that i would like to share with everyone, just so you are aware of their existence: they enjoy watching people get absolutely drunk beyond their imagination, they watch countless people get sick out front and laugh at them for being too drunk after selling them loaded coronas (3 of those will take an average person to oblivion), the bouncers promote aggressive behavior by being overly rude to anyone that questions them especially when other people cut in line and you have to wait, they treat their clients like ignorant children (and yes, you do get special treatment from the bouncers as a regular or if you have really big tits), the inside staff allows other people with the same sick mindset to go in there to prey on innocent drunken girls, the bouncers act like they have some sort of overlord entitlement over their clients because they wear a tshirt that says “team tres” and this somehow makes them superior to say whatever BS they want to avoid conflict after ENCOURAGING outrageous behavior to create conflict in the first place (ie allowing people to cut in line), while most bouncers will turn away people for being too drunk “team tres” will allow anyone in (even if they are falling over blacked out already), they don’t really care if something bad happens to you so they will sell you as many drinks as your credit card can buy, and if something bad does happen to you they will side with the person that caused the bad thing while you are left lying in the bushes for the cops to pick you up. these are just some general trends i have noticed at tres by observing this bar over time…but i have definitely not seen such a massive degree of immorality anywhere else in davis (ok maybe at ket mo ree but i don’t ever go there for that sole reason)…a lot of people can agree that tres is the place everyone goes to black out. it’s the bar college kids go to after drinking themselves into oblivion before going out, only to buy more drinks when they get there on their parents unlimited credit card. and it’s also the place a lot of creepy guys go to to prey on drunk girls…i’m definitely not going back there anymore because this is seriously disturbing to me and there are plenty of other bars in davis with a much more positive atmosphere. so you can go party there as much as you like, but just know that this is a sick, morally corrupt bar…
I’m not convinced that this will have the intended effect. Place a moritorium and expect prices to rise, conditions to worsen due to less competition. Until a trial, we don’t know what happened or what conditions contributed to the fight and the murder.
“Until a trial, we don’t know what happened or what conditions contributed to the fight and the murder.”
Wish I had the tar and feather concession….
;>)/
This is part of the larger question of what kind of downtown we want to have. The late night bars can pay much higher rent. The result is a proliferation of them with a decline in other types of establishments. I have seen this happen in North Beach in San Francisco. Former hardware store, drugstore, cutlery shop, baked goods, and grocery store have all been replaced by restaurants and bars. The entire neighborhood becomes an entertainment zone.
Or maybe we end up with empty store fronts because we ran night life business out of town?
This is happening all over in the name of economic development; a study in Fullerton shows the overtime paid to the police and other needed services to serve the nightclub scene exceeds the tax revenue brought in by a significant amount; yet one of the answers here is to INCREASE the number of officers on patrol. So, allow a huge problem that costs the City money, and increase the countermeasures that cost the City more money. That is INSANE.
I went by downtown at 1:30am last night. There were cops everywhere. From one corner I could see two officers on foot and three squad cars. KetMo was already shut down (never closes that early). Tres Hermanos was semi-crowded but wasn’t pulsating the usual sub-bass noise pollution 1/4-mile in every direction, very quiet. Smaller crowds than usual.
I go downtown frequently late at light and always cruise by the problem spots to see how things are progressing. The sub-woofer scene started about 7-8 years ago. The noise ordinance won’t cover the bass noise pollution as the meters don’t pick it up — that’s what one officer responding told me. At about 1am they crank it up — the DJ’s and the crowd get drunker and want it louder. Thump-thump-thump. I go downtown to identify the sources, or am on my way home on bike. About five years ago is when a noticeable change and increase in the crowd occurred. About 2-3 years ago is when the insane, slow moving lines began, and the crowds spilling into the streets because the clubs were full, and the noticeably non-college and rougher crowd hanging out by their cars in the parking lots.
The outcry seems quite muted. Not allowing weapons in? What does that matter — this could have easily have happened on the crowded streets, in line, or outside. The other thing that people should recognize is that the outcry is muted because it wasn’t “one of ours”. Had this been a Davis resident or student of UCD that was killed, the outcry would have been stronger, and indeed there is no reason it couldn’t have just as easily have been. We need to recognize that the scene is being allowed for a very few number of restaurants that have floor space, sell alcohol, and have a nightclub scene with a DJ. I have watched this in person for years, and the pattern is quite clear. The answer is not so clear, and clearly this is only a first step in some meaningful change to address the problem.
What is clear is that when you put out rat food, you get rats. Alcohol and a thump-thump-thump ultra-loud subwoofer scene is rat food.
A city of fools chasing their tails. Causing thier own problems that they then attempt to fix by causing other problems that they then attempt to fix by causing other problems… in an unending spiril downard in deserved decline.
What’s your solution, Frankly?
First, tell me what you think the problem is. Because I think this is where the debate needs to start.
Murder, etc.
Not answering for Don, but I think there are bad/stupid people in our society, and lubrication by ethanol increases the odds that they “act out”. Alcohol did not prompt the (apparently) guy to carry a knife into the restaurant. I don’t think alcohol prompted the person who shanked the victim to be a bad person. Just made it easier for them to act on it.
If the “perp” tries to take an “I was served alcohol and couldn’t control myself” defense, I volunteer to prepare the needle to put him out of our misery.
Thanks hpierce. So do you think the problem is too much alchohol being served? Or just alchohol in general? Remember that Ast Chief Pytel says that alcohol consumption is down compared to previous years.
Ah, you read, but do not see… you hear, but do not listen. People/personalities/mental health/criminality are the loaded gun. Alcohol and (generally) drugs only serve to make those tendencies express themselves in the here and now. Yeah, alcohol could pull the trigger. So could “dissing”, getting fired (or other job actions), etc.
Yeah, I think too much alcohol is being served to certain individuals, by certain businesses. That’s why the Paragon is only a ‘memory’. Manslaughter by over-serving (don’t you recall?).
Here, I do not have enough info to judge primary cause, but I suspect that had the crowds been the same, what we have learned so far about the suspects, had there only been sasparilla/lemonade served, there might still be a young man dead before ‘his time’. Do think the alcohol being imbibed was a factor, but not the cause. Intoxication COULD have been involved in nearby folk not realizing what was happening, to either stop the attack or catch the perps on-scene..
and violent incidents are up, but you didn’t care to quote that.
Completely made up claim with zero data to back it up. The Assistant Chief said that the popularity of different venues changes and there isn’t really a reason that can be calculated or anticipated.
The “in” place today will be replaced by another “in” place tomorrow.
And it has nothing to do with the size of the venue.
This is just crap from those with a no-growth, anti-business agenda.
Wrong. The large venues attract the trouble.
Frankly
“A city of fools chasing their tails. Causing thier own problems that they then attempt to fix by causing other problems that they then attempt to fix by causing other problems… in an unending spiril downard in deserved decline.”
“First, tell me what you think the problem is. Because I think this is where the debate needs to start.”
No, Frankly. I don’t think that you should get away with this cheap dodge. It was you who started with the “city of fools chasing their tails.” So unless you are including yourself as one of the fools, then I think that you should have the courage to back up your cheap shot with something more substantial than it is all about too many people in one spot and thus the need for more peripheral building. As though adding unspecified sums of people and businesses is a cure all for all that ails our city including murder.
Fools chasing their tails to solve some problem are advised to first agree on what the actual problem is. Seems like you are dodging. It should be simple enough to state the problem as you see it. Do so and I will be happy to respond. Otherwise it is fruitless because I might not agree with your perspective of the problem… so my solution(s) would not even resonate with you.
I float some possible restrictions:
– earlier bar closing times
– “club-only” bars, where one has to be a member to enter, and membership costs some $ amount
– require that guests drinking alcohol must be seated
Frankly: “Fools chasing their tails to solve some problem are advised to first agree on what the actual problem is. Seems like you are dodging. It should be simple enough to state the problem as you see it.”
I’ll take a stab at answering the question “what is the actual problem?”. From the anecdotal evidence from customers who frequent the bar scene, I would say there are several problems:
1. LINGERIE PARTIES, IF THAT IS STILL GOING ON: “Ket MoRe has has lingerie parties. Women who show up in scanty lingerie get in free and are eligible for prizes…”; “lingerie parties where young women are allowed in free and men are charged large sums of money to gawk at the girls…”
2. SELLING ALCOHOL TO ALREADY INTOXICATED CUSTOMERS: “drunk females stumbling about…he sure packed that thing with more hard liquor than would be safe for a girl her size…there are some very disturbing patterns that are emerging…: [restaurant staff] enjoy watching people get absolutely drunk beyond their imagination, they watch countless people get sick out front and laugh at them for being too drunk after selling them loaded coronas (3 of those will take an average person to oblivion)…they will sell you as many drinks as your credit card can buy…”
3. UNPROFESSIONAL BARTENDERS AND BOUNCERS WHO PROMOTE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR BY OVERLY INTOXICATED CUSTOMERS: “management and employees… beyond unprofessional…doesn’t demonstrate even a slight care for [customers] other than getting their money…bartenders are total creeps. One was trying to flirt with this girl at the bar and was giving her free drinks…the bouncers are complete and utter tools. They epitomize the term MEAT HEAD. They are incredibly rude and objectify the women. They ogle girls as they walk in, damn near undressing them with their eyes. They, too, try to flirt with the girls but in a much less discrete way. As in literally spanking some on the ass…Bouncers were unable to maintain control of the line. (There were plenty of obvious cutters) Bouncers lack decent customer service and have obvious ego issues. Treated customers like trash. A bouncer threw someone out very aggressively, and the guy ran into people waiting in line trying to get in…the bouncers promote aggressive behavior…inside staff allows other people with the same sick mindset to go in there to prey on innocent drunken girls…ENCOURAGING outrageous behavior to create conflict in the first place”
Anon – Thank you!
Good stuff.
#1. I have to confess that when I was in my 20s and 30s there was a lunch place in Sacramento that had lingerie shows. Models would walk around the restaurant and sell raffle tickets and patrons could purchase something for their self, wife, girlfriend etc. I took clients there. This was 1980-90.
I played in a rock dance band in the 1980s and played in Davis bars. I remember a few Halloween parties where many girls would wear very skimpy outfits that would qualify for lingering. I remember this happening at the Graduate. I’m sure it still does. I think the Graduate does PJ party night… and lingerie is common there.
Do you note what goes on during Spring Break in a lot of places… the bathing suits that 20-something girls wear?
My point here is that I think you are applying some standards of conservatism not based on current reality. I would prefer that the kids don’t wear skimpy clothing, but you cannot single out KetMoRee for this.
2. Over-serving alcohol is one of the main management “do nots” for most bars. Bars faces possible ABC violations and suspensions. Also, their liability insurance can be jacked up and canceled. I don’t see KetMoRee being any different than any other bar in town. However, ABA will certainly review this and make their decision.
3. I really don’t don’t see anything here worth making a big deal out of. If the place is not run well and the servers are rude and the bouncers are overly-aggressive, then people will stop going there. The popularity of the place leads me to suspect that you are replaying some minority complaints. But if the complaints are more common, the again I ask why the place is so popular.
We may disagree on some of this.
1. Yes, if lingerie parties are seen as part of the vortex that draws a dangerous element of criminal out-of-towners, then I’d find a creative way to end that. “Lost Isle” in the Delta used to have “banana eating contests” (combined with large amounts of booze and sun) – guess what, they outlawed the contests when crowds misbehaved.
2. Online reviews on Yelp had reviews that this was the last stop at the end of the night to get hammered for many. If this is true, they aren’t taking things seriously. I’ve been to plenty of places that were prime and proper up until 9 or 10, which turned into a sloshfest at midnight. Drunk patrons tip, and very drunk patrons often forget how to do math, or get their change, or collect their credit card.
3. A professional adult has a different value set than a horny, dunk, lonely 22 year old. They often are simply out after a “cool” scene and hot girls (guys), the other things you mention are secondary.
It is my understanding the heroin is popular at Davis High School and has killed a few students there. Just because something is popular doesn’t mean it is of benefit to the community.
Only point on this topic I agree with Frank Lee about: lingerie ain’t the problem.
Stuck record.
btw: You don’t have a competing business, do you?
;>)/
User Error.
4. DOWNTOWN DAVIS BECOMING SATELLITE CAMPUS of CHICO – Apparently to some, Davis is the place to come and be stupid drunk and accost women.
I would analyze this situation, and others like it – the stabbing on News Years Eve, and I recall an attempted stabbing a year or two ago in downtown one Saturday or Sunday. I believe most or all of these individuals are from outside Davis, just like many of the assaults at the Whole Earth Festival night time dance. Find the commonalities, the patterns.
If this outsider trend is correct – I believe it is – I’d enact a very public DUI checkpoints program Friday-Saturday nights, cite law breakers, arrest those with serious violations (DUIs, narcotics, weapons), and send the message: Davis is NOT Party Central.
As an aside – Frankly will like this – I find it interesting that the town won’t approve new business parks / innovation parks, but it <em>will approve</em> a boatload of new bars and nightclubs, turning the city into a satellite campus of Chico… which adds revenues, but also generates substantial costs. And now, one death.
Aside 2: I don’t see how Sudwerks or Plainfield Station x 2 – would relieve the pressure on downtown.
Davis is NOT Party Central.
It is Thursday-Saturday, 11pm – 2am. If you doubt, go downtown.
All excellent points TrueBlueDevil!
A missing data point, IMO, is whether the ‘venues’ are advertising thru media and/or social media…
Frankly: “I would prefer that the kids don’t wear skimpy clothing, but you cannot single out KetMoRee for this.”
Give me a break! We are not talking about “skimpy clothing”, but LINGERIE PARTIES FOR FREE DRINKS that draw a dangerous out-of-town element, much as a strip club would. Are you okay with downtown Davis becoming a “red light district”? Davis used to be a town of brothels in the old days, by the way.
Frankly: “Over-serving alcohol is one of the main management “do nots” for most bars. Bars faces possible ABC violations and suspensions. Also, their liability insurance can be jacked up and canceled. I don’t see KetMoRee being any different than any other bar in town. However, ABA will certainly review this and make their decision.”
How the h_ll would you know if KetMoRee is like any other bar in town? If KetMoRee over-sells alcohol to inebriated customers, they are not necessarily like any other bar in town, and are violating the law. Hence, IMO, the need for sting operations to find out what is truly going on. I am not as convinced as the Davis Police Dept is, that KetMoRee is as responsible as the DPD thinks, based on what I read on DavisWiki. I certainly think, in light of the recent murder, a thorough investigation is warranted.
Frankly: “I really don’t don’t see anything here worth making a big deal out of. If the place is not run well and the servers are rude and the bouncers are overly-aggressive, then people will stop going there. The popularity of the place leads me to suspect that you are replaying some minority complaints. But if the complaints are more common, the again I ask why the place is so popular.”
If bartenders are over-selling alcohol, and bouncers are encouraging customers to become aggressive, I see that as a “big deal”! Places that allow lingerie parties and over drinking are going to encourage a dangerous element to come to town that is desirous of a free-for-all atmosphere. I believe one of the customers that was involved in the murder was underage. That right there is a red flag that the bouncers are unprofessional/incompetent. Allowing pretty girls in for free while charging “other” girls and males a cover charge is pretty irresponsible, and bound to cause problems. Not protecting customers, spanking female customers on the rear-end is completely unprofessional/unacceptable.
Bottom line, would any one of you want YOUR DAUGHTER to go to a place like that? If your answer is YES, THEN SHAME ON YOU! If you want to call me ultra-conservative or a prude, go right ahead. I would be proud of such a title, but I would not be proud of being okay with my daughter going to an establishment that would tolerate such inexcusable behavior. I’m old-fashioned that way…