While I was born nearly 30 years after the Holocaust, I think every American Jew has to grapple with heavy existential questions. For me the moment hit when I studied the Holocaust in Israel in high school back in 1990 and the moment came when I realized that the Jews had really been abandoned by the world.
That moment of realization would turn me into an activist. You see, to me what made the Holocaust possible was not Hitler himself, but the refusal of people – ordinary people and good people – to stand up and say no.
That moment of realization is a moment of despair because you recognize that, in a modern advanced state, ultimate human crisis can arise and you realize that there is no protection.
But at the same time, there is the “never again” moment, when you realize that it is your charge in life to speak out against the inhumanity of your times.
For me that moment came back in 2006. I have told this story so many times. I was appalled listening to councilmembers, in what I presumed to be liberal Davis, utterly dismiss the need for police oversight. I was more appalled to see those leaders, in this community, turn against those who would look out for those who had no voice.
My wife was one of those people, perhaps the most prominent of them. But she was not alone. For six months we lived a life under fire – followed by police cars, threatened by phone calls, told to move to South Africa in a letter to the editor in the Davis Enterprise that to this day still burns me with indignation.
Over what? The simple call to establish a civilian review board to oversee complaints of police misconduct.
The police chief would resign. The Human Relations Commission and my wife would be publicly blamed. The council would shut down the HRC and, once again, I felt powerless to do anything about it. So I created the Vanguard in response, to speak out for those who have no voice.
I don’t know that I have actual words to describe the combined feeling of vulnerability and powerlessness. That was my never again moment.
I raise this issue now because, on Sunday, I advocated for what I believe in with every bone in my core – freedom of speech is the most fundamental freedom that we have in society. Noam Chomsky, whom I quoted on Sunday, got it right – “If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.”
If we shut down freedom of speech, the very people who get hurt are the most vulnerable in society. There are a whole host of other reasons I gave on Sunday for not shutting down Milo Yiannopoulos’ talk, but I think this is the most core.
I have a lot of respect for the students at UC Davis who oppose Mr. Yiannopoulos with every core of their being, but I think stifling his ability to speak ends up doing more harm than good. His message is out there, whether we like it or not, and I would rather have the ability to confront it in the open rather than driving it to the dark corners of the internet.
But not everyone agrees with my opinion – that’s fine. That’s what a democracy and a pluralistic society is all about. Let’s discuss our disagreements.
Here’s what a few people had to say:
“Just gonna throw it out there- David, perhaps there is something about your positionality as a white man unaffiliated with the campus that leads you to feel more comfortable with Milo’s presence than others… For some of us his hate speech has real impacts, it isn’t just words.”
I agree. His speech has real impacts, it is not just words. We see that in the most recent election. But I don’t think stopping him from speaking is going to fix that problem.
Here’s the thing, we have made a mistake of turning white privilege into a pejorative rather than an obligation. If I am in a less vulnerable position than other people – and I certainly am – then that means I have an obligation to speak out against it.
This is what gets back to the Holocaust narrative. Had the decent people spoken out early against Hitler and the rise of Nazism, it may have been thwarted. The famous narrative out of the Holocaust was, when they came after the socialists, I was not a socialist, so I said nothing. When they came after the Jews, I was not a Jew, so I said nothing. When they came for me, there was no one left to tell them no.
We need to fight this together, but we can’t do this by stifling speech, because when they stifle us when we speak, there too will be no one to stand up against it.
I am fully aware of my obligation here. This fall, this idea was driven home to me as I witnessed the arrests of four youths in West Sacramento. A family member told me that they were glad I was reporting it, because, as a white man, people would be more likely to listen to me.
At the same time, I was reminded this year once again, that I have family who are in more vulnerable positions than I am. Relatives of mine have come to Davis and been followed by the police. My kids go to school with children, scared to death that their relatives will be deported, and some have apparently packed up.
And I have been on the receiving end of this stuff too – when they go after your wife and family, they are going after you. And in some cases, it is worse than them going after you, because you have an obligation to protect your family.
As a poster responded, “Your mixed race family doesn’t shield you from criticism related to your identity as a white male. It’s pretty offensive for you to use them for that purpose and to imply that you speak for and to all of their experiences. I guess it’s pretty indicative, once again, of your lack of awareness of your privilege, for the white male head of a mixed race family to think that his opinions speak for all of them. If your children are harmed by Milo’s and other hate speech, it’s not your place to say that they should be subject to that harm for the sake of protecting speech that doesn’t harm you as a white man. You’re still white, even if your family isn’t. Duh.”
Wow. I didn’t respond to that post. It was too offensive. But I need to now.
First of all, consider “criticism related to your identity as a white male.” I really have no words. Like I said, I believe that white privilege should be an obligation, not an epithet.
Second, “It’s pretty offensive for you to use them for that purpose and to imply that you speak for and to all of their experiences.” I do not speak for anyone other than myself, but I do believe that I have an obligation to speak on behalf of those who have no voice and I am willing to stand on my record – for better and for worse.
Third, “I guess it’s pretty indicative, once again, of your lack of awareness of your privilege, for the white male head of a mixed race family to think that his opinions speak for all of them.” Again, I think I addressed this point.
Finally, I want to address this point: “If your children are harmed by Milo’s and other hate speech, it’s not your place to say that they should be subject to that harm for the sake of protecting speech that doesn’t harm you as a white man. You’re still white, even if your family isn’t.”
I have never said that anyone should be subjected to the harm of Milo’s hate speech or anyone else’s. What I have said is that the solution to that speech is to confront it rather than stifle it. There is a big difference between allowing someone to speak because you believe that it is their right and allowing someone to harm others.
However, I believe the bigger harm is to suppress that speech, force it into dark corners of the internet, rather than drag it into the open where we can all confront it.
Last week, I attended the district attorney’s press conference and there was one moment that really rang true for me. Carlos Matos, a former Chair of the Human Relations Commission, noted that this is a time when “we all stand together and we all speak with one voice.”
He said, “So whatever that hate letter was trying to do – what it has done for us is it united everybody.”
That’s the answer. If Milo speaks hatred, then we need to, in the words of Mayor Davis: “Condemn them? Yes. Reject them? Yes. But is that enough?”
He said, “Someone has written of human speech (written or spoken): No one can tame the tongue (the word) – a restless evil, full of deadly poison. We use words to bless and we use words to curse. From the same place comes blessings and curses.”
He added, “I believe that the most effective way to counter the curse is with a blessing – words can do either and so we counter the hate with a blessing.”
That’s how we win this – together and united against those who would divide us.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
“Here’s the thing, we have made a mistake of turning white privilege into a pejorative rather than an obligation.”
No, it started that way. “white privilege” has always been pejorative.
You missed the point of the comment then.
No I don’t think so. What you are espousing is a compemporary update of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden
What I’m arguing is that people in a position of relative privilege have an obligation to speak out behalf of those without a voice
“What I’m arguing is that people in a position of relative privilege have an obligation to speak out behalf of those without a voice”
So more like this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige
I question whether there is anyone who does not have a voice who wants one. I have no empathy for those who do not vote and complain afterwards. Life belongs to those that show up. At the same time I advocate for myself which means speaking against people who use terms like “white privilege” and don’t even think about calling me “cisgendered”.
I had watched the comments you are referring to and saw you post a photo. I saw that as assuage the mean person through identity politics. I was skeptical that it would be effective and as you note when someone is hating on you nothing will assuage them so why play their game? I used to work with the mentally ill and I always had the idea that they would respond to me as I had some connection that they would recopgnize and respond to. But guess what? They are mentally ill and continued to act out despite my misconceptions.
No
Both “The White Mans Burden” and “Noblesse Oblige” are operative and relevant with Trump having unleashed white resentment while the question remains will the ruling rich loot, excuse me, I mean privatize everything while cutting taxes for themselves. Or more simply will the rich get richer and the poor get poorer or will they give back out of a sense of Noblesse Oblige?
I think the words of the Noble Laureate Bob Dylan are relevant here:
The South politician preaches to the poor white man,
You got more than the blacks don’t complain,
You’re better than them you were born with white skin he explains,
And the negroes name is used it is plain,
For the politicians gain as he rises to fame,
And the poor white remains on the caboose of the train,
But it ain’t him to blame,
He’s only a pawn in their game.
Misanthrop–the rich have been getting richer at pretty much the same pace during the Obama regime as during the Bush regime. Obama and his family will be handsomely rewarded for his service to wall street and the oligarchs, as was Bush was before him and Bill Clinton before him (they may still be able to collect some of the favors Hillary owes them for their investment in her, as she and her family remain influential).
Will be interesting to see what happens with Trump–he’s a gifted promoter and negotiator; perhaps he can sell some of the Wall Street crowd on giving a go on swinging the economy more in a direction of national interest (instead of the continuing sellout to big finance and the multi-nationals); that they can get richer with a nationalist swing as well.
There’s a lot more to that story than just that. No need to rehash it now. But I believe that voters still remember that whole ugly episode as evidenced by your wife losing almost every precinct in Davis to an out of town candidate in the recent Los Rios Community College District board member election.
Never heard of this. Is there a summary someplace?
This really wasn’t the point of my post, but I needed to lay the ground work. There is a lot to this story that never was accurately reported in the newspaper that leads to your response. Nevertheless, here’s my response: And we can leave it at this: mistakes were made all around. Go look at the former chief’s comments about Davis after he left and his conduct in Antioch. Something else interesting, the vote was 4-1 to disband the HRC in June 2006. Three of those were Souza, Saylor and Asmundson – all three of them endorsed my wife when she ran for Community College Board this fall. Everyone learned from that experience. And the fact is that complaints in Davis fell from 40 in 2007 to 5 in 2015.
“There is a lot to this story that never was accurately reported in the newspaper ” Are we back to the possibly Mark Twain Uninformed/Misinformed quote?
I think it also says a lot that these council members voted to disband the HRC in the first place.
Hi quielo
“I question whether there is anyone who does not have a voice who wants one”
I strongly believe that there are many who would want to have a voice, but do not have the ability to use it. I am not talking about those who chose not to engage by voting and participating in the public aspects of our community. I am speaking about those who very much want to but are afraid of the consequences of their actions.
First, my own story. Many of you know that I am very outspoken both on the Vanguard, at City Council and before commissions and in public spaces such as Farmer’s Market and yet, within the past month, I have self censored several times because of fear. My children have a Muslim father. My daughter has citizenship both here and in Turkey. If there is a registry, will it apply to them ? What happens if they leave the country to visit relatives ? Will they be allowed back in under the policies of our president elect ? We really don’t know do we ? He has made many contradictory statements about what he will and won’t enact. So could my children be potential targets of a Muslim witch hunt, or a witch hunt targeting those “from countries impacted by terrorism ” ? We don’t know because part of the president-elects MO seems to be to constantly deal in uncertainty. Now our situation is very mild. Let’s magnify that to people who might be considered to be of Mexican heritage. He has already spoken with distain about Mexicans on a number of occasions. So can you not at least conceive that there might be both individuals and groups of people who might find it threatening to call attention to themselves by speaking out in such an environment ?
“at least conceive that there might be both individuals and groups of people who might find it threatening to call attention to themselves by speaking out in such an environment ?”
Those are the people who need to speak out. I don’t believe in self appointing myself to speak on other people’s behalf.
quielo
“Those are the people who need to speak out.”
That is a lovely sentiment. But what about if doing so sets you up for having to register, or causes you to come under police scrutiny, or results in you being blocked from re entry to the country, or gets you black listed for employment opportunities ( one of our own Vanguard posters actually went anonymous for a similar reason) just in case you think that “it can’t happen hear.
I also do not believe in “self appointing”. I believe that so much that I have a written disclaimer on every article I write. However, when it is unsafe for someone to speak out for themselves, should we remain silent or should we express our opinion vigorously while making it clear that we are not speaking for that group, but merely exercising the first amendment right that we all have ?
“I also do not believe in “self appointing”. This the thrust of this article. That people with “White privilege” have an obligation to be the self-appointed representatives of groups you feel are lower than yourself.
Really wasn’t meant to be the thrust. It’s a more general obligation to speak out against injustice.
“general obligation to speak out against injustice.” OK I’ll sign up for that.
However I am not going to post photos of my bi-racial family to justify my comments to some scumbag.
There you go repeating fake news Tia.
He spoke out against the bad component of the population of illegal immigrants. You know this so please stop embellishing to score political points. It just makes you look bad.
jeesh BP. the woman she was up against is an over 20 year incumbent.. and the Los Rios system is known to be one of the best run jc/community college systems around… not that it couldn’t be better… one can always improve – and Cecilia did remarkably well on a shoe string budget in this situation during the last election….
wow Tia. I was wondering why you were part of the fear mongering side..
One of my most favorite countries in the world is Turkey .. so so fortunate to visit that model for separation of church and state.. the USA could learn something….
Yeah Turkey is the model.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkeys-autocratic-turn-1481288401
Frankly
Turkey is the model for men regardless of secularization
I get the point and appreciate it.
but then…
Model for what men? Personally I don’t view a country that requires their women subjugated and covered from head to toe as “for men”.
Maybe we should say that it is a country for insecure men.
Marina
“so so fortunate to visit that model for separation of church and state..”
Not according to our extended family members who live there. But I suppose as a visitor you might have a completely different perspective.
Marina
“I was wondering why you were part of the fear mongering side..”
I do not think that there is anything “fear mongering” about quoting the actual words of the president elect. He is has been filmed stating that he would “absolutely” establish a registry of Muslims. That he would consider blocking re entry. That he would place a moratorium on refugee entry from …… version of the current speech. So takes him at his word and believes that he really intends to do what he has said, or one believes that he was just lying to get elected. Neither is a particularly reassuring prospect when you have family members that like to travel to visit family in a potentially targeted nation.
Noam Chomsky is the American Anarchist – Philosopher of the modern time . He is everything , Jew hater, Israel hater , America’s hater , capitalism hater . patron for Neo -Nazis , Holocaust denier , Donald Trump hater and what ever you named he was and he is by his own words an by being labeled by others.
Chomski fits perfectly profile of the another free thinker Rabbi Yosef Tzvi ben Porat’s speech who explained in his You Tube video why did Hitler hate Jews?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYSv_YQOVo
Why does it matter given the quote?
Because he Chomski is not the right person to be quote in this matter. You could find somebody a lot more credible about the free speech . I don’t even understand why you are trying to identify yourself with this smart ” Idiot” regardless if you are on the left or on the right.
Because I don’t harbor the same animosity towards him that you do apparently
David wrote:
> I think every American Jew has to grapple with heavy existential questions.
Do you ever ask the question why Jews who make up just over 2% of the US population make up over 20% of Ivy League grads, over 30% of high level people in the Obama administration, 37% of the Supreme Court of the United States and almost 50% of the Billionaires in the United States?
Do you ever ask the question why you seem to be upset when there are 3% less “people of color” than expected in some group but don’t seem to be bothered when there are 5% less white people than would be expected or 25% MORE Jews than would be expected?
I don’t have any problem with a group of people working together to get ahead, but it does bother me when the group that is more wealthy, successful and powerful than ANY other group in America spends so much time and money telling us all how antisemitism makes life so rough for them.
P.S. If the Soviet Kulaks (that Stalin killed) were doing as well as the Jews in America I bet we would hear a lot more about Stalin and Goodwin’s Law might even be changed to have people bringing up Stalin every time they don’t like what someone says on line.
“Do you ever ask the question why Jews who make up just over 2% of the US population make up over 20% of Ivy League grads, over 30% of high level people in the Obama administration, 37% of the Supreme Court of the United States and almost 50% of the Billionaires in the United States?”
Because I’m none of those?
David wrote:
> Because I’m none of those?
You are not a Newspaper or a member of the Green Jury, but that didn’t stop you from asking questions about them when you posted “Newspapers as the Solution to Fake News?” and “Analysis: Did the Jury Get the Green Verdict Right?”
Ok.
SOD
American -Jewish , political scientist , activist and professor Norman Finkelstein addressed your concerns in his book “The Holocaust Industry “
Jerry’s antipathy to a brilliant linguist and philosopher is understandable, given Jerry’s own laxity in the use of language and logic.
Biddlin, I know you have something useful and interesting to say about the topic, so why waste that talent insulting people that you disagree with. Come on now. You can do better than this.
That’s him, that’s what he does. Then he complains that his comments get scrubbed.
To be fair, sometimes he likes to tell me how arrogant I am.
Biddlin
Chomski is a brilliant linguist and philosopher like Marx , Engels , Lenin and Trocky were. Their brilliant linguistic skill an philosophy caused over 100 million deaths . I am rejecting such promoters of the free speech.
For your information Biddlin, Trotsky is the English version of Trocky or Trockij of Lev Davidovich Bronstein.
edited
“I don’t have any problem with a group of people working together to get ahead, but it does bother me when the group that is more wealthy, successful and powerful than ANY other group in America spends so much time and money telling us all how antisemitism makes life so rough for them.”
I think your post answers your own questions.
That too
Misanthrop wrote:
> I think your post answers your own questions.
I asked “David” two questions (unlike others who post here I don’t know what David is thinking so I can’t answer them).
You may also want to take note that what you cite is a relatively recent phenomenon: https://www.amazon.com/The-Chosen-Admission-Exclusion-Princeton/dp/061877355X?tag=bisafetynet-20
David wrote:
> You may also want to take note that what you
> cite is a relatively recent phenomenon:
When I clicked the link Amazon said: “You purchased this item on January 20, 2010” and when I saw the cover photo I remember powering through Karabel’s (incredibly detailed but not exactly easy to read) book.
The percentage of Jews in the Ivy League has been far higher than the percentage of Jews in America for over 100 years (The actual “Ivy League” sports conference started in 1954 when all the schools were still all male). It is true that back in the mid 1800’s when the schools that would later be called “Ivy League” schools were all very religious schools with mandatory DAILY chapel attendance (Yale ended mandatory DAILY chapel attendance in 1926) there were less Jews in the very Christian and very religious schools (were openly hostile to anyone that did not share their views on Jesus).
As a kid who grew up lower middle class who in High School did not have a single relative (on either side of the family) who graduated from college and who’s parents did not have any friends that went to college I didn’t have a lot of “white privilege” growing up (I was “privileged” to “only” work six days a week until 6:00 pm starting at 14, when my friend David an attorney was working in his families Chinese restaurant until 11:00pm seven days a week). As things started to go well for me I started to realize that “some” white people (as well as people of other colors) have a LOT of privileged.
The reason I have read so many books like Karabel’s is that it helps me understand the people I meet when skiing in Sun Valley or at a wedding at the Harvard Club in NYC with my wife’s Ivy League friends (who are not all white, but almost all come from “privilege”)…
Good writing by David showing some deep introspection (and growth if my might add) on a topic that has been his focus.
But the final epiphany still eludes him.
Consider the transcedentalist’s theory that Jews have been persecuted throughout history for various reasons and ironically their continued success as a tribe just hyper-inflames envy from other tribes of lesser accomplishment. Even as they have been nearly wiped off the face of the earth many times, they continued to flourish disproportionately (given their small numbers) invoking the worlds contempt and jealousy. It is one thing to be envious of a man born with a silver spoon that makes a gold spoon, but there is a stronger dark pull of envy toward the man born of profound strife that makes a gold spoon. It is a constant “in your face” reminder that you are somehow less… if you let it be. And there is a lot of “let it be” going on these days.
And somewhat related to this is the blame game. This is the tenancy for weak people to seek excuses for their personal plight in life. You can be “a victim of this, a victim of that… your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat” (great lyric of an Eagles song entitled “Get Over It”). And then this dark human tendency is exploited by weak leaders. “Hey look over there at THOSE people! They are taking more and hording more and leaving you with little!” This is what Hitler did. This is what Obama and the Democrats have done. “Hey look at those privileged white people… but mostly the wealthy white males… they are taking and hording all the wealth and leaving you little!”
The irony (or hypocrisy) is humorous now that Trump has won and the political left is being trounced in almost every western democracy. The losers had been marching forward in “progress” to a infantile Nazi-like totalitarianism with weak leaders employing a Hitler like propaganda strategy to demonize and blame certain groups in order to gain favor from the envious “victims”. Thankfully democracy worked and pulled us back from the brink. Note how close we came with the post-Trump election violence from this so called “peaceful protesting” crusaders of the left. It is ironic that the left now talks about fear of persecution from the Trump regime… ironic as all hell given their demonstration of violence… and the previous destruction of personal character and career for anyone that uttered any word or phrase not allowed by THEIR regime.
Until and unless those on the political left “get it” and cease their divisive name calling and corresponding silencing of others that don’t share their same values and views, the dismantling of their political infrastructure will continue. Yes, we should demand civility. And yes we should all oppose REAL hate. But this is a country that works because it is filled with strong people. Those that can take a word, take a punch, fall off the horse and get back on to ride again to deliver their own words and punches when warranted. The people in this country have evolved. They will not tolerate real hostility, oppression, bullying, cruelty… But this is NOT a country filled with “safe places”. It is a country that should be filled with opportunity and reward for hard work and self-determination. It is a country that deserves the highest and most strident protection of her nation sovereignty and personal freedoms. It is truly the shining city on the hill… and shall not be torn apart by the ubiquitous dark and destructive forces of totalitarianism and fascism.
Frankly wrote:
> The people in this country have evolved.
True, and this short video shows exactly where we are going
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N9nVLXMhPc
Love this. Some truth to it. But frankly, the Billy Bob family tree isn’t growing. It is Fishtown and birthrates for the working class has been plummeting. And they are not having that much fun… they are much mode hopeless and many are dying on opioids and heroin. It is also not quite the actual fact for the elite couple. They are the Belmonters and yes they are waiting longer and some wait too long and cannot conceive, but they are having more kids than the working class white demographic these days.
But the point is still valid in that as much as we have evolved, we have also devolved in a lot of ways.
Frankly wrote:
> they are having more kids than the working
> class white demographic these days.
It is important to remember that “bigger family size” does not equal “more kids”.
The exponential growth in uneducated white people is due to then having kids at younger ages. I have friends that didn’t go to college with kids who didn’t go to college who have “grandchildren” that are older than my “kids”. Even with smaller “family sizes” they have more than double the “decendants” in the same number of years.
Poor white kids sure are lucky to have “white privilege” since about half of them are born to Mom’s who are not married (and more often than not Dad does not hang around). It is strange to read about all the drug problems that poor whites are having since I hear so much about “white privilige” from my friends on the left I have to I wonder why they don’t just hear over to the Country Club, Polo Club or Yacht Club to get help from other whites with privilege.
37% OF DETROIT PRECINCTS HAD MORE VOTES THAN VOTERS
Mostly in Wayne County and Detroit in the predominately black precincts. I hope the Trump adminstration can get a national voter I.D. system in place in order to stop the voter fraud.
BP, You really need to Google headlines from Breitbart before passing fake news on. Please be more careful about this.
The actual news is “Numerous voting machines in heavily Democratic Detroit showed a greater number of ballots than poll workers records said were cast in the Nov. 8 presidential election.” Ref. Reuters
They needed to look at what happened with the poll workers and why the discrepancy with the voting numbers – essentially do a recount – but “a federal judge in Pennsylvania rejected Stein’s request for a recount and an examination of that state’s voting machines for evidence of hacking in the election.” Ref. Reuters.
So we will never know what happened.
Just as I stated:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/detroit-machines-registered-more-votes-081903447.html
The point is that poll workers did a tally and it didn’t match the number of votes cast. There is no determination that these were votes for Hillary or Trump. There was no determination that the error was with the machines, tampering, or the with the poll workers keeping a tally. We will never find out now, because the Trump folks sued to block the recount. Then they spread false or misleading information that the election was corrupt and there was mass election fraud. And people like you believe it and pass it on.
Who do you think these extra votes in Detroit black districts were cast for?
I remember in the last election there were a few precincts in black precincts that actually had more votes cast than voters registered.
So, how did 37 % become “two thirds”? The article seems to say that 63% had perfect matches between the machine and the tally… being off by 1 per precinct, means they were off. 0.37 X 1 X 392 is an apparently inconsequential #.
Geeesh, it’s two thirds of the 392 precincts that couldn’t be recounted, not 2/3’s of the entire state. That number is 37%.
We don’t know if these were “extra” votes, because we don’t know if the poll workers didn’t keep an accurate tally. But since you are asking my opinion, I’d say probably Trump to try to offset the overwhelming number of votes for Hillary. You can’t tell me otherwise, because you don’t know and the Trump campaign sued to stop us from finding out.
in the Russian tradition, storytelling is an art form to share ideas without spoonfeeding them…since it is just over one year of my uncle’s passing and because he was truly one of the most brilliant men I have had the fortune to know, I like to share true life stories about my uncle…..
and please excuse any generalizations..
many Russians were not that fond of jews prior to the communist uprising, few jews were of the priviledged class and few were peasants either, but as the chosen people, they usually knew how to get ahead.. as a class of people they were very family oriented and hardworking and chose jobs where they could easily get ahead.. shopkeepers and sales people to start… Russians later blamed the jews for the ills of communism…. many of the original activists were jewish though not necessarily practicing as the official religion of communism was atheism…..
my uncle was known to be outspoken and not one to hold his ideas to himself.. and though some may think my elders were rascist due to the blaming of ills on jews, in actual fact many of my parents closest friends from childhood through adulthood, as they followed each other from asia to south america to the US, were and are jewish… and yet my uncle would sometimes say something outlandish which others may take to be a sign of racism… when I brought my new boyfriend, later my husband to meet my mother she took one look at him and said. …omg is he jewish… I said I don’t know mom … she looked at his name and his features and said he MuST be jewish and I so what if he is.. what does that have anything to do with anything..
and she freaked out and said…well as long as you don’t get married..
we planned our wedding at the last minute around Valentine’s day and then my mother went in for open heart surgery and of course I couldn’t mention it..
we flew down to our friends in LA who performed a private ceremony as of course it was last minute and after my mother was sufficiently better I showed her the pics and video..
and she is like – omg well just don’t tell your uncle.. he may disown you…
of course by then my uncle and my hubby were the best of friends…..and did he even notice that my hubby was jewish… if he did he never mentioned it.’
around the same time Obama was leading and of course my uncle was upset that we were going to have a black pres… he didn’t trust him for many reasons.. but when he won and obamacare became the law, my uncle was happy .. that was a good step in the correct direction he said…. of course we argued the point as I said I am in favor of national healthcare but having read the first iteration of 1700 plus pages I was aghast and said the only ones getting ahead with this plan were the insurance companies…
what many do not know is when my uncle became Exec VP of Engineering for Miller Brewing company and transferred to headquarters in Milwaukee from Manhattan, there was a young teen black single mom assigned to be his personal secretary… I have met her many times over the years… as even after my uncle early retired nearly 30 years ago they remained the best of friends.. Sandra’s family had no education beyond HS.. but she was brilliant.. and she later told me that if not for my uncle she would not have been able to early retire and never worry of her or her son’s future.. her child who she was not sure who the father was was welcome around my uncle and the other MEs….of course he is an ME now and works for Miller…. why not? and the main reason she didn’t worry is because one of the first days they were working together he sat her down and told her that she MUST put 10% of her salary every month into the 401K.
Thus some people can be loudmouths and say things which may be taken out of context.. but the proof is in the pudding.. it is always actions and inactions …. NOT words..
have a lovely day and I since it is time for lunch at my fave organic restuarant for the especial del dia.. gotta run…
PS> what many others may also not know is though my uncle was a brilliant engineer and manager and master negotiator.. he was practically illiterate in the areas of writing coherent sentences in English….. English was his fifth language and yet he relied on his executive secretary and later assistant manager to correct all of his spelling and grammar.. my mother would often say that if she didn’t do his written assignments for him he would never have graduated HS much less university.. and I never believed it.. but later learned that was true.
So some of your racist elders best friends were Jews?
The above MK post is proof that in Vanguard world, publishing incoherent, rambling sections of one’s autobiography is considered “on topic”.
if I was a betting person, which I am not, I would bet that the Donald personally gave many more minorities and women a hands up than the very nice and only self centered BO. .. over their lifetimes and even with the caveat that some of BOs policies helped some people.. but I would also theorize that those who followed and watched and learned from the Apprentice were helped even more
Marina
“Donald personally gave many more minorities and women a hands up”
And I sincerely doubt that the president elect has ever given a finger let alone “hand up” to anyone if he was not fully aware that he would gain much more from the interaction than they would.
Then read up and have an open mind:
http://conservativetribune.com/trump-secret-poor/
I never attended any English classes in my life .By paying double price for this promised land I had no time to go school. I was educated in Poland and we were forced to learn Russian instead of English .It does mean that moderator should allow to Biddlin and Pierce to harass me endlessly because my English is not perfect or they just don’t like Polish or Russian people . It got sick
Can we pretend to keep this conversation on-topic, that would probably solve 90% of your problems
David
Think about the sanctuary cities and how to defend immigrants. Don’t point at my problems . I am an immigrant in this country .
+1
DG the topic as I understand it is white, jews, racism, priviledge etc.. .. and it depends on how narrow minded the person is whether something on a topic so broad is on or off topic..
and these days the protected classes now include
most categories of “minorities” unless they are white..
most categories of darker skin cept those from India or Pakistan.
only certain categories of Asians…not the ones from China nor even Japan.. or even Korea…
most forms of disabled cept fat people and caucasian immigrants who arrived later in life and didn’t go to school here when they were younger….
even LBGQT is considered protected on campus and city, CA and elsewhere….
edited, off topic
[moderator] I have pulled a bunch of posts. We need you all to stay on topic, and most especially we need to stop the back-and-forth insults that derail these conversations.
Frankly
“There you go repeating fake news Tia.”
This is not fake news. And I do not believe that it is me that “looks bad” when the now president elect is on tape claiming that Judge Curiel could not be objective because of his Mexican heritage. Now you may not believe that the “inability to be objective” is not a pejorative on the basis of a class of people, but I do. This is not spin nor fake. It is in his own words and readily available to hear.
SofD said: “. . . it does bother me when the group that is more wealthy, successful and powerful than ANY other group in America spends so much time and money telling us all how antisemitism makes life so rough for them.”
This is a profoundly stupid and racist statement. You should be ashamed. You obviously are not a Jew. When a Jew hears a real Jew-hater, it cuts to the soul. The number of successful Jews relative to unsuccessful Jews, or relative to the population as a whole, is irrelevant to a hate that seeks to kill.
As well, it is a particular group or groups, most prominently the ADL, which doesn’t speak for all Jews, that “spends so much time and money telling us . . . “. That doesn’t mean all Jews agree with the ADL-ish strategy wholeheartedly.
The entire premise of the Jews being demonized in Germany is based on envy. Many of the businesses and banking and law positions were held by Jews. This in a time of post-WWI hyper-inflation when Germany was miserable for many. Hitler turned this misery and envy into hatred and blame on the Jews — including millions who were living in squalor — who were blamed, demonized, deported and killed by the millions. Jealousy of the success of a portion of the people in a group is not an excuse for genocide.
This is why I don’t buy into the “white privilege” tactic. Of course, speaking in broad generalizations, more white people have societal advantages than some minorities that do not. If you don’t believe that is true, you are insane. But on an individual basis — person to person — lines get continually more blurry from the group to individual level, to the point that any two people thus compared who fall out of the color filter could find the status reversed.
The blaming and labeling of the “white privilege” label is born of anger and envy. The poison of racism and hate cuts both ways on the economic scale. One reason for the backlash that led to many Trump votes was white folk — many of whom are decent and not racist — tired of being labeled and shamed for the color of their skin.
This is not to negate the overarching problems built into our society, our economics, our history and our culture that clearly, overall, give a leg up to white folks as a whole and has, as a relative whole, treated many people of color like s–t. However, shaming anyone for how they were born is not the answer — that only leads to, well, among other things, Donald Trump.
I have been critical of the ADL for their s
What happened to the rest of my post?
Well, here it is:
I have been critical of the ADL for their statements on the various incidents in Davis that could have been directed against Jews. While clearly stupid acts, assuming that this was a rise in anti-Semitism seemed to me to reek of wanting to find anti-Semitism where that was one possible cause, similar to several other possibly-racist acts that were declared racist in Davis over the last couple of years.
I was especially offended by the implication that Jews may not want to come to UC Davis anymore because it wasn’t “safe”. No group wins by cowering, so it is unconscionable to me that a pro-Jewish organization promote the thought that Jews would run away as a response to perceived hate.
Alan wrote:
> This is a profoundly stupid and racist statement.
After leaving a big CPA firm an older Jewish man took me under his wing early in my banking career and for years I not only had mostly Jewish co-workers, but mostly Jewish clients. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Jewish people and will attempt to do as good a job as most of the Jewish people I have watched over the years as I raise my own kids.
> The blaming and labeling of the “white privilege” label is born of anger and envy.
The blaming of whites for problems in America today reminds me a lot of the blaming Jews for problems in Germany in the 1930’s.
That was my point. Hmmm . . . OK, we seem to actually agree on that, not disagree.
Maybe I misunderstood the breadth of your comment. My reaction to your post was that, as I read it, it implied Jews were of one voice, and that because Jews were over-represented in places of money and influence, that Jews had no right to complain about anti-Semitism.
Did I read you wrong?
Alan wrote:
> My reaction to your post was that, as I read it, it implied Jews
> were of one voice, and that because Jews were over-represented in
> places of money and influence, that Jews had no right to complain
> about anti-Semitism.
As a strong defender of free speach I’ll never say that anyone has “no right” to complain about or say anything.
What I did say is that when things are overall going pretty well for a group it “bothers me” when they spend a lot of time and effort complaing about little things (I don’t think many Jewish kids at UCD cry themself to sleep if they see Free Palestine written on a bathroom wall).
If a homeless guy complains about the cold weather it does not “bother me” but when my kids complain that after we got a Nest thermostat it is colder when they get up to go to the bathroom at night it “bothers me”…
Hmmm . . . I think what you are saying is what I was saying about the comments from the ADL. I don’t see anti-Semitism as a “little thing”, but what I am saying is I have a problem with seeing it where it may not be present, just to make a point, such as horror over a supposedly anti-Semitic tile joke. As I had a problem with the noose, and the letter sent to the Muslim center. All these things could have been “real hate”, but they all struck me as the acts of juveniles and/or idiots trying to get attention or make a point, and over-reacting to that devalues true hate against Jews, Muslims, blacks or whites. And feeding that just feeds giving attention to idiots, and hysteria by way of victim thinking.
I’m not sure we agree completely, but now that I understand better your point, we agree somewhat — and I apologize for calling your statements stupid and racist. I would erase that if the edit button went for five hours instead of five minutes.
Tia, this is fake news unless you are going to say that the international Olympic committee is racist since they don’t let Mexican judges judge Mexican divers (and Mexicans are racist for flying refs in from the US when they play Brazil),..
South of Davis
This is absolutely not “fake news” since he actually said it. What our president elect apparently did not know was that Judge Curiel is not Mexican but as American as you and I are. He then had to modify his statement to include being of “Mexican heritage”. I am pretty sure that the International Olympic committee would not eliminate people on the basis of the color of their skin alone without regard to country of origin which is where our president elect showed his true colors by saying that “heritage” was the determining factor that prevented Judge Curiel from being objective. So much for your analogy. And so much for any defense of the president elect on this matter.
Tia:
Saying that “He has already spoken with distain about Mexicans on a number of occasions” as you posted earlier is “fake news”
Saying that He was “claiming that Judge Curiel could not be objective because of his Mexican heritage.” is not fake.
Do you really think that Trump thought a sitting US judge was a Mexican national or was just saying Mexican without the “American” after it (like 99% of Mexican Americans, Italian Americans, and Irish Americans would say if you asked “what nationality are you”)?
While you might be “pretty sure” that the International Olympic committee will not eliminate anyone based on “decent” you would be wrong. I have relative that have been judging for years (including at the Olympics) and they tell me that except when there is “no other option” FINA (who judges diving for the IOC) will avoid even having a Chinese looking judge scoring a Chinese diver and FIFA (who’s refs are on the pitch for Olympic soccer matches) will avoid even having a Mexican looking ref at a big international soccer match where Mexico is playing another country. Are the Democrats as bad as Trump because they did not trust the mostly American born Republicans watching the recount in Michigan to be impartial so they sent their own people to check up on them?
SOD
“Do you really think that Trump thought a sitting US judge was a Mexican…. “
Are you asking me to project from my “ESP” that you claim I utilize ? What I think that the president elect thought is not the point. The point is what he actually said which is well documented in his own, in my opinion, thoroughly racist words. No interpretation or spin necessary. This racist tendency is backed by in his own words his claim to “superior” German blood ( also on tape) and his characterization of Mexicans as rapists and murderers ( and maybe some good people too).
This is not “fake news” as all I am doing is quoting his own words. The interpretation of what he was thinking or more likely not thinking is highly subjective and individual and we could both speculate all we like……the words as spoken are themselves the real truth.
It is OK to hate Trump and Milo but calling a gay guy that has sex with people of color on a regular basis or a guy that forgot to add “American” after Mexican one time a racist is not only sill, it fits the definition of “fake news”.P.S. I have not heard anyone complaining that Trump is racist for saying he has “German” rather than “German American” blood…
SOD
So you are not including his characterization of Mexicans as being “murders and rapists” and ” I suppose some good people too” is racist. I do. This is a quote of his actual words and thus cannot be “fake news”. Also not fake new is the tape of him talking about “bad hombres”, unless of course you are going to pretend that he forgot the English word for men.
I said that he had made racist remarks on “multiple” occasions. Based on the three taped incidents I have cited, I will stand my ground on the veracity of my assertion.
I think we should treat the talk by the racist guy the same way we treated the Westboro Church visit….crickets. No attention, no protest, no letters to the editor, no media, nada, nothing, zip. That worked. Westboro cancelled their visit to Davis when they realized they would be standing around without an audience.
The more people respond and draw attention to this guy, the more we have to discuss things like freedom of speech and weirdly defend his right to speak. It is uncomfortable for people who grew up in the 60’s and went through riots and street protests to defend people’s right to speak their mind in a public place.
However, there should be a place and time to denounce what he has to say. To criticize his ideas and beliefs about the unworthiness of others. To call him names or, better, laugh at him, even. Again, free speech.
It’s even more uncomfortable to have to even consider having to defend someone’s right to speak from people trying to shut down a speaker.
ryankelly
“It is uncomfortable for people who grew up in the 60’s and went through riots and street protests to defend people’s right to speak their mind in a public place.”
I think that this is a highly subjective assessment. I also went through the riots and street protests of the late 60’s and early 70’s and yet I experience no discomfort at all with defending people’s right to speak their mind publicly.
Please give examples of what Milo Yiannoplous has ever said that is racist.
I always ask this and nobody can come up with any examples except that someone else tweeted a racist slur in response to one of Milo’s tweets like somehow Milo is responsible for that.
He’s still scheduled to speak, right? or did I miss the memo?
Perhaps we’ll know more after he speaks… I’m good with waiting until his own words, in a public forum, either ‘exonerate’, or ‘convict’ him.
And to see how the audience responds…
Oh… does anyone posting here on DV have tickets to the event?
He is a proud defender and carries the torch for alt-right, a racist group – which believes that one is intellectually or culturally superior because they’re white, and black and brown people are less valuable to society and should be viewed with contempt. You can’t be a member of a racist group and then say that you don’t believe in a core belief of that group and tip-toe around by not saying racist things. He also criticizes feminism – a favorite catch phrase that he boasts about is “Feminism is Cancer.” Not good.
He’s not a member of the alt-right. In fact in a fairly recent interview he said he doesn’t identify with the alt-right.
Ryan, I really believe that you’ve fallen victim to all of the hyperbole about Milo when it’s not true. Maybe you should do a little research instead of just parroting what you’ve probably heard or read on DailyKos.
Actually, my online research took me rapidly to Breitbart.com, where they have a long list of articles, transcripts of his speeches, and interviews. What I said was he was a defender and torchbearer for alt-right, and I think I’m correct. I think that association says volumns.
Ryan wrote:
> He is a proud defender and carries the torch for alt-right, a racist group –
> which believes that one is intellectually or culturally superior because
> they’re white, and black and brown people are less valuable to society
Can you post a link whre the “racist alt-right group” has this posted?
> You can’t be a member of a racist group and then say that you don’t
> believe in a core belief of that group
In 10 seconds with Google I found a quote from Milo (9/16/16) where he said: “I don’t consider myself a member of the alt-right”.
Just like no one has been able to find a single racist qoute from Milo for BP I’m betting that Ryan won’t be able to find a link to the racist “alt-right” groups statement of purpose…
P.S. It feels funny to “defend” both Donalt Trump and Milo since both are narcisistic clowns that I dislike. Put it is not fair to call someone a “racist” just because they like to say outragous things and push people’s buttons to get a rise out of them…
Oh, give me a break. He’s a cheerleader for the alt right. He has/had tens of thousands of Twitter followers and he knows exactly what they will do when he attacks someone, which is what he and they did to Leslie Jones before he got banned. He revels in it all.
Then please Don, give us examples of anything Milo has said that’s overtly racist.
Just Google why he got banned from Twitter.
And here: https://thinkprogress.org/trump-supporter-milo-yiannopoulos-furthers-racial-hatred-at-depaul-university-ac5468a9e436#.z8rt0kl8e
The key issue is his co-authorship of a long apologetic about the alt-right. Rather than post a link to it, I will urge you to read the National Review’s discussion of it here. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/433650/alt-rights-racism-moral-rot
SOD
“In 10 seconds with Google I found a quote from Milo (9/16/16) where he said: “I don’t consider myself a member of the alt-right”.
One does not have to be a card carrying member of a group to be a sympathizer and perhaps more acceptable face of a group than the avowed racists that he has admitted that this group draws to its ranks. He has written articles, given speeches and podcasts defending and playing up the intellectual components of the alt-right and I have posted the links for the consideration of any who are choosing to be open minded about this issue. I believe that the totality of his public communications on this issue speaks far more loudly than does his one liner disavowal of membership.
Because we can always count on you being open minded?
It seems that the only answer you’ll accept is that Milo is a member of the alt-right even though he says he’s not.
BP wrote:
> It comes off as the only answer you’ll accept is that Milo
> is a member of the alt-right even though he says he’s not.
Using Tia’s logic that Milo likes some things the Alt Right believes in, everyone that was happy that Hitler made the trains run on time was a Nazi.
It is funny that after hours and hours of internet research the only racist qoute Tia could find was one where Milo talks about sleeping with black men.
I’m betting that Tia is the only person in the world that would call a gay guy that sleeps with black guys a “racist”…
BP
“Please give examples of what Milo Yiannoplous has ever said that is racist.”
OK
July 2016 at DePaul University
““I’ve worked out why there are so many Black girls here…cause I f—–d their brothers” and “I give it 20 minutes; the statistics of Black incarceration are about to go up.
Now many will likely dismiss this as “humor” or “bomb throwing” a la Ann Coulter. However, I believe that there is a more serious thread through Yiannopoulos talks and and articles.
As part of a long article on the various groups of the alt – right as he defines them in a rather lengthy article on Briebart
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/
Yiannopoulos gives a number of elaborate defenses for why the alt-right should not actually be considered racists and then, near the very end states the following.
“Anything associated as closely with racism and bigotry as the alternative right will inevitably attract real racists and bigots.”
So while it is true, that unless you count the presentation in which he dresses as a policeman and then goes on a prolonged rant about how bad blacks are ( you can look this one up yourself) Yiannopoulos rarely makes a blatantly racist comment himself, but his defense of those who do is quite telling. As discussed in a previous thread, one does not have to come out and say “I am a racist” to in fact be one. One can demonstrate that through one’s actions and those whose actions one defends.
I agree with the sentiments expressed in this article. That democracy is fragile and we need to be vigilant. I am grateful for The Vanguard’s efforts to shine a light that way. I agree that those of us who have the resources, including the personal ability to handle conflict, should be prepared to shoulder more of the responsibility to stand up to injustice and bureaucracies that support injustice.
I have also observed that the term “white privilege,” is used pejoratively now. In fact, I had to re-read the article above, without giving it a Social Justice Warrior tone. I think the term “white privilege’s” meaning has changed since it was first introduced. It has been picked up by popular culture and used to judge and bully people, as in the story above, and not to provide us with an awareness that would encourage empathy, as I believe was the term’s original intent.
Just like “cisgendered” and “cultural appropriation”
quielo wrote:
> Just like “cisgendered” and “cultural appropriation”
I find the “cultural appropriation” thing funny every year on Cinco de Mayo I hear about it but never on St. Patrick’s Day…
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/White-SF-St-student-with-dreads-accused-of-7215259.php
Exactly.
quielo
This the thrust of this article. That people with “White privilege” have an obligation to be the self-appointed representatives of groups you feel are lower than yourself.”
I think that the choice of the expression “white privilege” was unfortunate. However, I obviously interpreted the thrust of the article differently than you did. My take is that societal position often leads to greater or lesser belief in the opinion of another. This is true by gender, race, age, perceived wealth and station in society. I believe that each of us who is safe in doing so has the obligation to speak out whenever we see an unjust that we are able to address. I do not believe that those who either are not, or do not perceive themselves as safe share the same obligation…..although many do so anyway. I do not know if I would be that brave. I sincerely hope that I will not be so tested in my lifetime.
Why only when we are safe?
This is interesting. To me, “white privilege” is not something I feel and it has absolutely nothing to do with how I feel about others. “White privilege” is a quality I have. It describes what happens when my black colleague and I both check into a hotel, where our company reserved rooms for us during fieldwork, and the clerk asks for one credit card from me and two from my colleague.
I think this post is saying that I should stick up for my colleague. I agree. And I turned the experience into a teaching moment and didnt go all SJW (Social Justice Warrior) becuase I want to be effective and being a jerk doesnt work for me.
I wish our culture would adopt an approach to conflicts that included the concept of “saving face.” Once anyone in an interaction is on the defensive, the opportunity to make things better, is lost until next time.
“I have a lot of respect for the students at UC Davis who oppose Mr. Yiannopoulos with every core of their being, but I think stifling his ability to speak ends up doing more harm than good.”
Being quite late to this discussion, I’ll focus solely on the above excerpt from David’s editorial, a statement with which I agree completely. I’m strongly in favor of letting potentially narrow-minded, poorly-informed, or deliberately evil speakers diminish their own credibility with their freely-spoken words.
We, the pigs and sheep, are not completely stupid and incapable of detecting and rejecting idiocy when we hear it. If we are forcefully prevented from hearing it, we may conclude that what has been suppressed or censored is far more interesting and important than it actually is.
I certainly know that in my own experience, some of the ideas I’ve been most interested in exploring have been those that others attempted to eliminate from consideration, or those that became the subject of such over-the-top negative propaganda as to be almost humorous (remember “Reefer Madness” anyone?).
So, I say let people speak. I also say, engage your brain and think about the merit of what is being said. If a counter-argument is in order, make it. Oink!
Napoleon
“We, the pigs and sheep, are not completely stupid and incapable of detecting and rejecting idiocy when we hear it.”
While I agree wholeheartedly agree with not censoring speech, I am not so optimistic as you that the pigs, sheep are not universally smart enough to detect and reject idiocy as exemplified by the shooting at the CometPizza shooting.
Maybe not, but they/we have the freedom to do their/our best, and that’s the best we can do.
Tia wrote:
> This is actually no longer true as the rate of teen
>pregnancy has been steadily dropping
You are correct that the rate of teen pregnancy is dropping, but I never said anything about “teen pregnancy” I said that poor ueducated whites have kids at a younger age than rich well educated whites resulting in an exponential increase in the number of poor whites (with three to four generations born in the same number of years as two generations).
P.S. I would bet that if Tia were to ask the MDs she works with when they had kids and ask her poorest paitents the same question the average age of the MDs having their first kid will be much higher than the poor women…
South of Davis
“The exponential growth in uneducated white people is due to then having kids at younger ages”
This is actually no longer true as the rate of teen pregnancy has been steadily dropping as more and more young women utilize the long acting reversible contraceptives including DepoProvera, IUDs and the Nexplanon.
This “white privilege” narrative is old, stale and BS now. So is the “war on women” since women dominate education and 12 of the 15 fastest growing careers. So is the narrative on racism since the institutional type is vanquished except in sticky pockets and old people… and here is the thing about it… if you don’t like it then move away from those people. There are plenty of places to go where people only will dislike you because of how you act and behave, and not what your ethnic or racial origin is. Have you noticed the number of American children that look a little bit: black, Hispanic, Asian and white these days? Much of them you cannot even tell what the ethnic or racial background of a person cares. And Hillary Clinton was fond of saying “what difference DOES it make?”
The REAL reason to stop the narrative BS about white privilege, is that the only REAL privilege today is education level. And guess what… ironically that privilege goes to mostly to the same people clinging to the old “blame white people” narrative.
There have always been those few hyper wealthy. There has always been the stubborn demographic of poor (the ones that the left continually exploits for their giant and perpetual “war on hunger” charity.)
The divide today is the new upper class and the working class. The working class is highly over-represented in white Americans. It also contains a lower, but still material, demographic of minorities. This group has been in an economic free-fall since before the Great Recession. Then Barack Obama took over and decided that his liberal agenda was more important than jobs for “those people”… after all, most of them are white and don’t like him because he is black (even though many voted for him) and so Barack thought “to hell with them… let them cling to their guns and religion.”
So let’s get real with the narrative. Educated elite liberals and elite conservatives… YOU are the new privileged. And you expertly block access to your world and then deflect responsibility by blaming those poor white people. Guess what. The poor white people and many other people that know better just told you what time it is.
I’m not sure what this has to do with this essay by David, since you’re the first to introduce the phrase on this page, but the ‘war on women’ has to do with attempts to restrict reproductive freedom: reduce access to abortion and contraception. I don’t think that the term is usually used in reference to career opportunities or access to education.
In the sense of blocking reproductive freedom, there is no question that the war on women is accelerating.
Ok, so there is no longer any left political hay being made for the glass ceiling? Women are not being raped frequently in every college campus? It is all about abortion? Hmm, maybe you should tell that to the women’s movement that still says the war on women is basically just the existence of Republican men and all their oppression of and violence against women.
I don’t see women’s restricted access to abortion accelerating (don’t know what the hell “reproductive rights” are in this context because obviously women are free to freely reproduce… that is why they need so many abortions). But too bad the left did not accept bans on late term and partial birth abortions… because even moderates are disgusted with those practices.
Any Supreme Court justice nominated by Donald Trump will vote to overturn Roe v Wade.
Your trolling is getting tiresome.
The attacks on the right of women to choose abortion are increasing. Ohio just passed a 6-week abortion ban, vetoed by Kasich. States are gearing up to ban abortion as soon as Roe v. Wade is overturned. The future of abortion rights in the United States right now depends on the health of three justices who are presently 79 – 83 years old.
Defunding Planned Parenthood is apparently a top priority of Republicans in the House, and is supported by Trump.
The war on women refers to these continuing attacks on the right of women to control their own reproduction. It’s real.
Is that what Barack thought?
Alan:
> Is that what Barack thought?
Listen and let us know what you think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTxXUufI3jA
And then he doubled down killing more of the industry that would otherwise provide some opportunity. Not only did he NOT work to help restore economic opportunity in these areas, he specifically did things to make it worse.
But that is what you do when you are a man with a chip on his shoulder and prone to retribution against those that don’t take a knee when you walk into the room.
I think he referenced people in some towns without job clinging to guns and religion. He didn’t say ‘to hell with them’. That’s quite a different thing.
SOD
I find it very telling that you did not even bother to read the second half of the quote that I cited which has nothing to do with whom he chooses to sleep but makes a broad and unsubstantiated comment about the incarceration of blacks.
You also have not chosen to look up the clip of his incredibly biased presentation about blacks and the police.
One thing that is crystal clear to me is that there are those amongst us who will claim that what is right in front of their eyes is “false news” and that apologists for movements are not supporters of those movements.
Wow David- you have my contact information, if you were so bothered by what I said you could have reached out to me about it instead of posting on a public forum. You have my contact information. The second comment was my partner’s, you have his contact info too.