A few weeks ago there was a troubling incident at UC Davis with flyers that were apparently circulated by white supremacists. However, an anonymous poster on the Vanguard, rather than heeding the warning that the message might be sending, rather than being concerned that hate and rhetoric were taking over, decided to make a partisan comment.
“I hope they have cameras or a witness so UCD can find out who actually posted these flyers,” a reader said from behind a wall of anonymity provided by the Vanguard. Later he clarified his point: “Or maybe some leftist activist hanging posters to stir things up?”
Sound familiar? This played itself out on the national scene last week. Critics of President Trump were sent explosive devices.
FBI Director Christopher Wray said Friday that more than a dozen improvised explosive devices sent to individuals nationwide were “not hoax devices.” He said each device was made of roughly 6 inches of PVC pipe, wiring, a small clock, battery and “energetic material that could be explosive.”
As the New York Times wrote: “For a country already on edge — consumed with overheated partisan rancor and divided over matters as basic as what separates fact and fiction — the attempted attacks marked an unsettling turn less than two weeks before a crucial midterm election.”
But for many this was a time to score partisan points.
For most of the week, the right was accusing the left of Fake News: “Many prominent conservative commentators — among them some of the president’s most ardent defenders — quickly pointed the finger at the left, accusing unnamed liberal agitators of sending the packages in a ploy to make Republicans look radical right before the midterms.”
So what we learned is that the perpetrator was a fervent supporter of President Trump who went on racist, anti-gay tirades. His family said that he had no outspoken partisan views at all, but that “Mr. Trump’s angry rhetoric and his appeals to the ‘forgotten man and woman’ during the 2016 campaign seemed to strike a deep chord with Mr. Sayoc.”
At this point, he registered a Republican and “posted photographs of himself wearing a ‘Make America Great Again Hat’ at one of Mr. Trump’s rallies.”
In a way we lucked out with the bombs, that no one got hurt. But that luck ran out in Pittsburgh.
Forty-six-year-old Robert Bowers stormed into the Tree of Life Congregation Synagogue in the affluent Squirrel Hill neighborhood, shouting hate for Jews and killing worshipers in a 20-minute attack. He 
had posted anti-Semitic rants on social media, including Gab, a fringe website favored by white nationalists.
According to one account, Mr. Bowers didn’t vote for Trump because the president was too soft on those of Jewish faith.
It doesn’t take much of a stretch to tie this altogether.
The White House was particularly defensive this week in the wake of the Pittsburgh shooting.
“The president is not responsible for these acts,” Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said on Monday. “I think it’s irresponsible to blame the president and members of his administration for those heinous acts.”
But Jonah Goldberg in an LA Times op-ed had a different view. He said the “yes he did” “no he didn’t” debate isn’t helping, and, “It will only make things worse, as each side grows increasingly deaf to its own heated rhetoric and ever more furious at the other’s.”
This is a point I agree with wholeheartedly. The rhetoric in this country is overheated. We are way too divided. And hate and anger are being given a voice. That is true on both sides.
HOWEVER, where I think Mr. Trump is to blame is the next point that Mr. Goldberg makes. “Here’s a better question: Is Trump helping? The answer, obviously, is no.”
He writes: “Let us stipulate that the pro-Israel father of Ivanka Trump, who converted to Judaism when she married Jared Kushner, is not literally Hitler.
“But let’s also stipulate that there’s something about Trump and his MAGA nationalism that’s been, and remains, very attractive to bigots. This doesn’t mean that everyone who jumped aboard the Trump train is a bigot. Far from it. But it is simply true that some who did are bigots, and that Trump and his team have been unconcerned about this fact.”
And this is what we saw in Charlottesville as well. Mr. Trump didn’t speak out, then he didn’t speak out strongly enough. Then it was too late to make a meaningful point.
Mr. Goldberg continues: “Trump is even more ignorant about how to be presidential. He’s the first president who doesn’t even know how to pretend to be a unifying figure, at least for longer than it takes to read a statement off a teleprompter.
“Instead, he’s enraptured by the rapture of his base, feeding them red meat, dog whistles and wedge issues — anything to keep the attention on him.”
The bottom line for Mr. Goldberg, who actually gives Mr. Trump a good deal of benefit: “I don’t think Trump deliberately encouraged this slaughter in Pittsburgh. But every day he fuels a sense of chaos, a feeling that none of the norms or rules need apply anymore. And that is bad enough. It certainly isn’t helping.”
So now I’m going to say what should have been said two weeks ago with the Davis incident – the implication that this was a hoax without evidence is dangerous. We have now just followed the chain nationally down the rabbit hole. Each time the perpetrators were no hoax – they were legit.
Mr. Sayoc was a legit actor acting in hate and anger, and nearly was able to pull off a catastrophe for this nation. Mr. Bowers succeeded where Mr. Sayoc failed. This nation is on the brink of something horrific. It is time to pull back.
Locally, we must act responsibly.
The good news is that nothing really bad happened in Davis. Although, after Pittsburgh, I think the Jewish community will react much stronger the next time this happens. Maybe people like some of our posters should not be so cavalier next time, either.
Me too. I was talking with my parents before this stuff happened, ironically, and they were talking about some of the security they had at their synagogue on high holidays. I kept thinking, why would you need that? Then this incident happened.
There was an interesting op-ed in the Boston Globe:
“This massacre is a stark reminder of the need for every synagogue to employ security measures to keep their congregants safe,” it said. “With anti-Semitic incidents in the United States on the rise and an uptick in religion-based hate crimes, it is critical that steps be taken to harden our synagogues.”
Columnist Jeff Jacoby writes: “In the America I grew up in, synagogues didn’t have to be hardened. The shuls I attended were open to all and largely unconcerned with security.
“In the America I grew up in, Jews had nothing to fear from their neighbors… The Nazi genocide had so traumatized the West that anti-Jewish bigotry became repugnant in mainstream society. Having seen what can happen when anti-Semitism is indulged, the civilized world recoiled from it. In the America I grew up in, Jews not only lived in relative peace and harmony, but assumed that peace and harmony would go on indefinitely.
“No more.”
And that, my friend, is why it was completely inappropriate to even insinuate that the flyer handed out at UC Davis was a hoax or self-planted. This world is too dangerous for that. It is time to recognize this is a different world. And not for the better.
—David m. Greenwald reporting
I remember when Gabbie Giffords was shot, the immediate cry from the left wing press was it was a Tea Party member who did the shooting just to find they were horribly wrong.
Yes, part of the problem, that you seem to perpetuate…
Keith
I think that is the point. Speculation prior to information is dangerous regardless of whether you are doing it or a liberal is doing it.
The suggestion that anti-Semitic and racist acts are committed by the left to stir things up is vile and offensive. The alternative is presented as if it’s an equally viable explanation—a 50-50 likelihood instead of the 99.9 to 0.1 probability it is. Such absurd deflections give aid and comfort to and embolden the racists and bigots. We need to condemn the enablers, starting with the occupant of the White House whose rhetoric and dog whistles encourage anti-immigrant, anti-Semitic, and racist fervor, and the kowtowing members of his party who refuse to stand up to him.
Eric, did you speak up when Obama stated “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” when Eric Holder said ‘When they go low, we kick them. That’s what this new Democratic Party is about.’ and when Maxine Waters stated “Let’s make sure we show up wherever we have to show up. And if you see anybody from that Cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station, you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.”
“Eric Holder said ‘When they go low, we kick them. “
Oh for heaven’s sake. Conveniently leaving out the second part of Holder’s quote in which he states “of course that does not mean physically…”.
But thanks for the illustration of how partisan interpretation of words to portray a statement as something other than what was said is rampant.
Then how about Obama’s quote, Maxine Water’s quote, explain those off. There are a whole trove of these types of inflamatory quotes coming from the left. Do you want me to cite more?
Yes, to an extent… a former CC member cited from the dias, “Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.” (She didn’t like a staff recommendation to be consistent in application of rules/ordinances… violated the justification of her opinion, and eventual vote)…
True quote is, “”A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.”.
Yes Tia, partial quotes, partial responses to posts here (cherry-picking), ignoring the ‘meat’, is real, and a sign of moral, ethical dishonesty. Political/self serving. Rampant.
The latter paragraph gets to the heart of the topic at hand.
Keith O, please provide that “trove” of quotes. In return we can provide a boatload of similar and worse said by GOP candidates over the last 40 years, starting with Reagan’s “welfare queens.” The Democrats have stopped turning the other cheek, and the bullies in the GOP are upset. If you can’t see how the Democrats rarely name call, while Trump name calls almost every single day. The flow from the Democrats is a trickle, while Trump is a firehose. That you have to go back weeks, months and years to find quotes, while we only need to look to yesterday find an objectionable statement speaks a world of difference. Get over your hurt feelings (and come out from behind your anonymity.)
Yes, part of the problem, that you seem to perpetuate…
BS Howard. Bringing attention to that ugliness that gets no attention is not perpetuating the problem. Do you make a habit of wanting to shoot the messenger? Should one side just keep quiet so as not to upset the easily upset?
Jeff
How about if both sides just told the whole truth instead of fanning the flames by partial quotes as Keith just did when quoting only half of Holder’s statement. The half that supports Keiths bias?
Eric needs to learn that “false flag” events are not new and and are used by the left “and” right and people both foreign and domestic (I don’t have the exact number but it is probably more that Eric’s estimate of one in a thousand)
https://washingtonsblog.com/2015/02/41-admitted-false-flag-attacks.html
P.S. I have never been to this site before and I have no idea if it is “liberal” or “conservative” but skimming it I recognize most of the events as “real” false flag events I have already read about and it has links for more info for those who want to say “a government would never lie to voters”,,,
“And that my friend is why it was completely inappropriate to even insinuate that the flyer handed out at UC Davis was a hoax or self-planted. This world is too dangerous for that. It is time to recognize this is a different world. And not for the better.”
Gosh, I have made that comment many times here on the Vanguard only to be told I was blowing the incident out of proportion, yet you publish as the first and very dismissive comment one from one of your anonymous crap stirrers.
I’m getting a very mixed message from this, since you regularly censor named posters, at least me, for simply not indulging the trolls and creeps you apparently endorse. I told you this stuff was serious, I knew what was coming and take no pleasure in being right. End the anonymous posting and stop trying to limit the free speech. Either the trolls will go back under their rocks or we’ll all know who they are and where they stand.
David – You are the enabler here, with your anonymous posting policy. I agree with John Hobbs, that policy has to end today.
Very disappointing. Very disappointing.
By the way, you can always ignore the posters that upset you so.
They don’t upset me Jeff M., no matter how much invective they use to make their point. I just don’t see the value of their inclusion in the conversation if they are unwilling to publically stand behind their statements. In the past, I have supported a limited exception for some, especially when I’ve known their true identity, but I no longer feel that is appropriate. There have simply been too many examples of anonymous or semi-anonymous posters attempting to create conflict here while adding nothing of value to the conversation. It is time for that to come to an end.
Ken A. – I find the implication in your comment to be reprehensible and of no value.
I have enjoyed some very spirited discussions with Jeff M. both here and in person and have a great deal of respect for both he and his opinions. I don’t share his love of invective, at least not to the same degree, but when I choose to use that rhetorical device I do so with my own name attached.
Perhaps instead of making snide comments about others, you should focus on your own ideas and integrity.
First, I don’t see any evidence that people posting are unwilling to stand behind their statements.
The bit you are choosing to ignore is that in a time when trigger words are invented daily and the mob has the power to destroy careers and people for daring to say something deemed offensive by them, the only result would be a more pure liberal idea echo chamber. All of those expressing this opinion that anonymous posting should be eliminated subscribe to liberal political views… now isn’t that convenient?
It reminds me of the late 1930s in Germany where the risk for verbalizing an opinion different than what the ruling class at the time wanted resulted in a silence of criticism and empowerment of the mob. That would be the result. You would see those posters stop participating and then those on the left could be happy in their ideological echo chamber.
Somehow I don’t think that is what you really want to see.
[moderator: edited]
All of them?
This sort of ‘absolutist’ logic is characteristic of many on-line forums and in my experience is what differentiates you from your chosen on-line personae. The lack of nuance in your positions here about what others think is telling. Functionally, it is that nuance in positions that provides us all the room to learn from each other and find points of agreement. When you strip away nuance you also strip away intellect, rational discussion, and learning.
Your choice of 1930’s Germany is telling, in light of the current environment, but unfortunately you misidentify which ‘mob’ is currently in ascendency, as was painfully demonstrated this weekend.
Dial back the rhetoric, you might learn something.
Mark, please identify who I am missing here. Most of the conservatives that used to post to the VG bailed when David changed the rules. I did for a year and came back because I felt more moderate but left-leaning people like you needed more substance in the comment section from the other viewpoint.
Yes, I use provocative examples to make a point. That would not change no matter what my moniker as it is my style and an honest reflection of how I see things.
But I think you are failing to acknowledge the modern times where people are destroyed for a word or thought… a word or thought that was acceptable last week, and acceptable as long as you have a membership in a sanctioned victim group and/or have a virtual signaling get of jail card for free card. I used my full name on the VG until my place of business was threatened by someone not liking a view that I posted. Others have similar justified concerns.
It seems as if you and others demanding an end to anonymous posting deny that this mob threat exists.
Not at all, but you are clearly ignoring the fact that the faction currently in power has changed and with it so have the thoughts that are now proscribed.
For the record, I have always advocated for a ‘no anonymous posts’ policy here. As I said before I accepted limited exceptions for those with a legitimate need, including those who believed their livelihood was under threat, but I have always thought those who demanded anonymity should be held to a higher standard of behavior. Unfortunately, I believe that the most of the frequent anon posters here have not met that higher standard, so I no longer support that exception.
Maybe this is where your and my perspective diverge. California and Davis are clearly controlled by the same that has been in power for years.
And define power… because the MSM and the PC mob seems to have a lot of power. Just check on Megan Kelley for example.
Liberals have the big money now. Business and the media are beholden to the big money. They have to virtue signal the same way that the mob demands, or they will also be attacked and destroyed.
But yes, I do remember you being consistent with your opinion here, and I respect that.
Putting my (real) name down that I agree.
Mark,
I fully agree with you (and you may have seen my campaign a month ago on this issue.) Anonymous posting allows posters to vent without consequences. It’s clear they DON’T stand behind what they say–they refuse to put themselves on the line. They are cowards who only make our society a less cooperative place.
When David writes “Critics of President Trump were sent explosive devices.” I wonder if he thinks this also might have been a “false flag”?
There is a chance that crazy Trump van guy might have made them (not knowing that Michelle does not make her husband walk out to the mailbox to get the mail each day and that NONE of the other people he mailed the packages to open their own mail), but as much as I like to make jokes about the Post Office it is hard for me to imagine that the people at the local post office didn’t find it odd when they got the packages out of a mailbox that DWS was using stamps rather than the DNC postage meter to mail packages to the former president, former first lady and others. If the guy at the mailbox didn’t notice anything then someone else (and the machines that weigh the packages) had to ignore the grossly insufficient postage, then they had to forget to cancel the stamps, then they had to somehow to get in to the system without a barcode (that all stamped packages have to have), then someone had to pull one of the packages from the mail system since CNN said a courier not a mailman delivered their package that they had sitting around the office taking photos of (despite the fact that it “could be explosive”). David may believe that all these suspicious packages made it through multiple postage facilities in multiple states and that multiple postage employees and high tech machinery didn’t notice that they didn’t have proper postage or barcodes but they just kept flowing through the system including getting personally delivered by the final postal employees (who almost always know the “famous” people on their route) that would obviously call the Secret Service “before” delivering a suspicious package to the former president or first lady…
Lots of bits that don’t add up.
I am not a conspiracy guy, but I don’t believe in multiple simultaneous coincidences. And I also subscribe to the rule that if something appears to be too good to be true, then it likely is not. This “bomber” story is almost like the DNC wrote the script and then played it out. They get to leverage the media story of outrage against Trump the GOP without there actually being any actual bombs that would explode.
Maybe the guy is a deranged Trump fan (as opposed to the opposite Trump derangement). But even a lowly cognitively-capable Trump fan would have enough sense to know that this type of thing would not be good for any Trump support cause.
The “both sides” response was predictable. Nothing, however, compares with the current president’s daily barrage of tweets, rally speeches, etc. in which divisiveness and fear-mongering are the central themes.
No what’s predictable is Democrats and the mainstream media blaming Trump for everything.
You must be deaf to the constant daily hateful rhetoric coming from the media and Democrats.
Trump changed and then set the tone. But my point in writing this was pointing the finger at you. So a few weeks ago instead of dealing with the possibility that anti-Semitism was creeping back into the eco-system, we spent hours going down a rabbit hole that you dug when you falsely suggested the possibility (Eric’s right the equal possibility) that it was a self-inflicted message. You’ve taken absolutely no responsibility for that and I think you need to be called out – PARTICULARLY because you are hiding behind protected anonymity.
Take responsibility for what? That I pointed out that “I hope they have cameras or a witness so UCD can find out who actually posted these flyers,” I want the perp caught who posted these flyers. Do you know who posted them? Plus as Ken pointed out sometimes these events are false flags. I don’t know who did it but neither do you at this time. Hopefully the investigation is successfull and we can find the responsible party.
In fact, Tia stated very well above:
Keith
Who do you believe is responsible for Trump’s words and actions? If someone, including someone in the media does not approve of those words and actions, does that make him any less responsible for them?
And who’s responsible for the Democrat’s and the biased mainstream media’s words and actions?
They are, but you won’t take responsibility for your role in this whether it is your own personal role or whether it is your political role. That’s the problem. Trump is a huge problem. you don’t acknowledge that. It’s always someone else – TDS you say. he causes strong feelings and it’s not a good thing. There’s no accountability.
I disagree with your characterization of the rhetoric and your false equivalency. But, more importantly, Trump is the President of the United States, for goodness sake! He needs to start acting like it, instead of a petulant child. He has primary responsibility for setting a more positive tone–and he has failed miserably.
You are so predictably tribal.
Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer… the list goes on. They are all complicit in divisive rhetoric. But they speak in the language of your tribe so you are fine with it.
Exactly Jeff, just like how most liberals can’t see that most of the mainstream media is totally left leaning biased. They speak their language so they’re tone deaf to the actuality.
Yes, part of the problem, that you seem to perpetuate…
Yes, part of the problem, that you seem to perpetuate…
I hope that we haven’t reached the point in society where some are discouraged from putting forth theories (which may, or may not be plausible) on a political blog.
I haven’t seen anyone on this site state anything which encourages violence in any way.
Regarding the flyers, what if it was some attention-seeking teenager, or group of teenagers (with no other “political” purpose) that was causing all of this “ruckus”? (Or, are we supposed to keep such thoughts to ourselves?)
You don’t seem to get it. Let’s suppose there is a horrible tragedy. A man gets killed. You speculate without any evidence at all, that he faked his own death. I would argue that’s completely inappropriate.
Craig: Yes, that example would be insensitive and irresponsible, and I wouldn’t do it. But, it’s not what I was referring to.
The comment that was originally referred to in this article didn’t “bother” me, at all. I didn’t think much about it, either way. Perhaps because this is primarily a political blog, and I’m used to seeing these incidents politicized. This very article politicizes the incident, as well.
It’s an extreme version of what’s being talked about here. Anti-Semitic flyer, person on here speculates a lefty sent it. No evidence. Just throws it out there. Bombs sent to 11 Trump opponents, conservatives speculate it’s a conspiracy. They couldn’t wait for the person to be caught, so they know. Theories are fine, Tia’s point stands, imo.
I see a difference between the bombing, vs. the flyers. My guess is that the commenter wouldn’t have put forth such a theory regarding the bombing.
I didn’t read Tia’s point, so I’ll go back and look at it.
I normally stay away from these types of issues, but again I didn’t find the original comment to be particularly out-of-line. However, I am starting to see the point that perhaps all political rhetoric could be toned down, without one side singling out the other. Maybe the Vanguard will take the lead, on that? 🙂
As a side note, I just watched an excellent PBS program, regarding the power of social media to facilitate conflicts, worldwide. (In some ways, I think the Vanguard facilitates and thrives on conflict.)
Immediately after the news of these “bombs” (note that none worked) the MSM started their “caused by Trump Tweets” narrative.
It’s hard to miss context. You have a bomber who is pro-Trump and a shooter who is parting of the rising alt-right, it’s hard to wiggle out of this.
LOL. Trump has a Jewish son in-law. He has been pro Jew in his policies (well not pro New York liberal Jew). The shooter hates Trump. Yet you try to connect it to Trump and GOP.
The fake bomber has too many unanswered questions at this point, but the problem is that he is a deranged lunatic.
Like I said, I guess this means that all Islamic fundamentalist terrorists should be assigned to the Democrats.
‘Facilitate’, as to reconciliation”, or as to “exacerbating”? I can see both… if PBS didn’t explore both, perhaps the “Polyanna syndrome” is in play. Then, not ‘excellent’…
Today, seeing a lot of exacerbation on this blog.
Actually, I almost forgot about the bomber, compared to the shootings.
Although these things get a lot of attention in the media, I’m wondering whether or not there’s actually more violence now, compared to previous years.
Most violence doesn’t even get much media attention, nor is it political in nature. It’s too “routine” to get much attention. Happens every day.
Howard – yes – “exacerbate” is probably a better word.
Unless it fits the mainstream media narrative or will get ratings it does not get covered.
The Synagogue shooting was a tragedy, but many people forget that not a day goes by when WAY more people are killed by gang members (last year just the city of Chicago averaged almost 10 people “shot” every day and close to 2 actual “shooting deaths” a day.
I’s sure some CNN staffer is trying to get the OK to run a headline like “Trump responsible for more shootings in the Windy City” right now…
https://abc7chicago.com/43-shot-5-fatally-in-chicago-weekend-shootings/4573961/
Terrorist attacks by definition are political acts. That means there will be political discourse about the causes and responses. One does not need to directly incite such an incident to receive some degree of blame. They can give permission, such as inaccurately stating “there are fine folks on both sides” and specifically blaming ethnic groups for particular societal problems. So of course, this is all politicized. Those who object to these being politicized are always the ones who are being told that they bear responsibility for the event. If instead they directly acknowledged or clearly stated why they are not to blame, then the discourse could be different. But in our society today, no one wants to take responsibility (to be honest that extends across the political spectrum, but it’s particularly hypocritical from conservatives for whom this is an abiding core principal.)
Ron, be careful, I said basically the same thing last week and David wrote a whole article telling me I needed to take responsibility. Responsibility for what, a reasoned reply to us not really knowing who put out the flyers?
What I see is the political left blowing up because they had grown used to spewing extreme divisive rhetoric (their leaders couched the same in soft academic PC tones) while the the right leadership stayed above fray generally demonstrating much higher decorum and civility… and basically capitulated to the campus-trained mob. Trump came in taking a page out of their Rules for Radicals book… but instead of Code Pink protests, he did red, white and blue rallies in those blue-collar areas of the country that leftists seem to hate.
Who knows why those on the left watch those rallies, but they do… and then rage about it.
Someone used a great analogy to explain the difference in views that explain the left rage.
Say she has a weight problem and would eat all the cookies in the pantry, so she tells her husband to not get cookies. But the husband is fit and controlled for what he eats and likes a cookie every now and then so he gets the cookies and tells his wife she needs to work on her self-control.
If you are left-leaning, the husband is a jerk.
If you are right-leaning, the husband is right and the wife needs to work on her self control.
The GOP used to comply by not buying the cookies. But the problem is that the Democrats just kept losing self-control. Trump came a long as said “BS… we are buying all the cookies in the store because we can” and the left’s heads are exploding because they have never practice any self-control. They have a long and growing list of trigger word (cookies) and Trump keeps munching on them in front of them.
So Trump and other conservatives have had enough… they are calling out the left on their behavior… giving them the same back. But instead of looking in the mirror and accepting responsibility for lack of self-control behavior, the left has gone to the next level in vitriol and protest tantrum to try and destroy Trump… the husband that keeps buying the cookies.
There is plenty of evidence of false-flag episodes from the left. There is a rule about desperation… it causes people to engage in acts of desperation. The left is desperate to strop and destroy trump. They are so out of control… so despondent… so on the verge of nervous breakdown… that we should all be on the lookout for the worst type of behavior… and also the systematic collusion from the establishment bent on maintaining their pay-for-play money-making status quo.
Really you see the left blowing up? You don’t see your own guys murdering people and sending bombs. edited
LOL. Antifa, BLM, Code Pink… these are part of the mainstream of the modern Democrat party. Your attempt to connect fringe lunatic extremists to the GOP would be the same as me connecting Islamic terrorist lunatic extremists to the Democrats.
BLM? Please link the specific violent attacks on innocent bystanders committed by BLM, or withdraw the accusation.
Antifa only arose in response to the violence of the white supremacists, and again, please identify the specific attacks on individuals who are not associated with a violent movement themselves. I’m not going to endorse Antifa’s tactics, but you need to acknowledge fully WHY they even exist.
What’s the saying, Google is your friend. I typed in “antifa attacks” and Google shows 8,630,000 results. Do some research, it’s not that hard.
Do you seriously not know how Google works, Keith?
Yes I do, I would think with 8,630,000 results there will be plenty of examples of Antifa attacks and terrorism.
No you don’t. I just googled Tree of Life Shooting and got 1,050,000,000 results. By your logic, that would add up to “plenty of examples” of Tree of Life Shootings when, in fact, there was only one.
BLM: https://www.washingtonpost.com/
Your comment about Antifa is so inane it barely registers any motivation to respond. However, let’s just say that it is nice to have confirmation that you, a supposed normal Democrat, would defend them… confirming that they are part of the mainstream Democrat apparatus.
So Jeff M, you’re endorsing the attack on the Tree of Life synagogue? Your response to our pointing out the source of the motivation in the right wing is to counterattack with accusations about other groups (and misattributing blame to BLM in the process.) That appears to be an implicit endorsement of anti-Semitism as justified because it’s just as bad on the left.
Richard – you should switch to permanent use of the derivative of your first name with that comment.
I suppose since you are a liberal and thus quick to deride those critical of the extreme followers of Islam for believing they are a terrorist threat, and also quick to support the Palestinians, that you are actually more likely to endorse the Jews killed at Tree of Life synagogue. No?
Jeff M, you ignore that the GOP started the divisive hate speech 40 years ago, and their campaign strategy ever since has been to divide and blame. The Democrats have just now started to fight back, and the GOP bullies are hurt.
Please provide your evidence of “plenty” of false flag episodes. The number will be trivial compared to the actual. You are so desperate to deflect blame from those that you are implicitly giving permission to act that you are making up “facts” out of whole cloth.
HAHAHAHA! Prove it.
http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/
From the person who anonymously spews speculation and falsehoods. Come out from behind your cloak and I’ll prove it with a long list. But I’m not debating this issue with a ghost.
I’ll respond for everyone else’s edification although a ghost made this comment.
One example source that catalogs the rise in hate speech by the GOP that accelerated after Reagan’s infamous “welfare queen” attack in 1980 is EJ Dionne’s book. You might not like the author’s politics, but all of the facts are there. There are many other books and articles as well. I’ve noted myself the dominance of divisive language pushed by GOP consultants. The GOP was the first to come up with attack ads that we all love and cherish.
I challenge you to find a similar source for a rise in divisive speech from the left over the same period.
Jeff M, thanks for posting that link to the catalog of “fake hate crimes.” It lists 341 such hoaxes cumulatively since 1986, and what appears to be somewhat less than 40 in 2017.
In comparison, the FBI listed 6,121 such crimes in 2016, and that number is considered to be substantially underreported (90% of jurisdictions report no hate crimes, which probably includes a majority that don’t bother reporting). A separate report stated that hate crimes rose 12% in 2017 in larger cities.
Based on the number of “fake” hate crimes in 2017, that constitutes 0.7% of an underreported number of hate crimes. In other words 1 out of 153 reported such crimes are fake based on this simple analysis. In comparison, the probability of sentencing an innocent person to the death penalty is 1 in 25. Do you think that we should bias our assessment of the validity of hate crimes so heavily that we dismiss any such claims based on such a low probability that it is untrue?
Please stop trying to throw sand in our face and own up to enabling these hateful actions.
Richard the number of “fake” hate crimes is not real high, but the number of fake hate crimes we hear about is a “lot” higher since a “regular” person may or may not report it and they just get on with their lives while an “activist” will immediately post about the incident to social media then talk to the regular media and take a month off to go on a coast to coast speaking tour about how much “hate” those people have.
P.S. If a “Pro Trump Men’s Rights Activist” posted to 20 social media sites that he was attacked by a group of young Latino women who stole his MAGA had while taunting him saying “Orange Hair will never build the wall to stop us” then went on Fox news and was a guest on the Rush Limbaugh show before heading out on a 20 state speaking tour I would think it was fake, while if a synagogue that feeds the homeless had someone spray paint “We hate Jews that feed the homeless” on a wall and the Rabbi told the media he is going to clean it off before getting back to helping the homeless I would think it is real… Most hate crimes are not fake but most hate crimes reported by “activists” that are just “too perfect” (few gay guys that are really beat up have the attacker mention Trump and the Republican party) and have someone that really seems to enjoy being in the limelight as a “hate crime survivor” are fake…
Ken A, I have no idea what you’re talking about. I posted hate crime statistics compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Unlike Jeff M, I relied on law enforcement sourced data. Are you saying that the FBI is a liberal interest group?
Your example completely misses the point. Again you ignore that less than 1 out of 150 hate crimes have any evidence of being fake. Are you saying the 11 people at Tree of Life faked their deaths to get back at Trump? Your fantasies go too far, and are part of what gives the right-wing extremist terrorists permission to act out. You are no better than those you accuse of being apologists for Islamic extremists. Own up to your role in this travesty and come out against the enablers.
And here is a video from the Communist News Network… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUu46J_OHQ4
Really? Joseph McCarthy and Roy Cohn (Trump’s former lawyer) would be proud.
Really, you are defending CNN like is something worth defending?
And by the way… there is Antifa being anonymous. Will you demonstrate expected hypocrisy supporting that while demanding that VG posters not be allowed to be anonymous?
This reminds me of a saying… if it wasn’t for double standards, Democrats would have not standards these days. Sad.
You’re not threatened with physical violence and attacks in your home if you reveal your identity. Again, I don’t support the Antifa, but I also know that their entire movement is in direct response by a violent group that you appear to be giving permission to act out their hatred.
Sorry Dick, but you are wrong. Been there done that. You were probably still in High School when that happened on the VG. Also had Governor Brown’s people go after my place of work.
Maybe Richard missed the earlier comment that was deleted where the poster said something to the effect that Trump backers should be hung.
Richard misses a lot.
I can see the sensors got it. Good move.
How about the Bernie Sanders supporting shooter went out and hunted down Republicans playing softball and shot them up almost killing Steve Scalise?
And admitted that he was going to kill Republican law makers.
Letters filled with poison have been sent to Trump, Pence and others in the GOP… little MSM press on that.
GOP politicians and government employees have been threatened, harrased and chased out of restaurants had their children threatened and worse… little MSM press on that.
The MSM carries the Democrat water and that is why it is necessary for a politician like Trump to combat it. If the MSM was truly factual, fair and balanced… then I would join in deriding Trump for his attacks on it. But the MSM is biased, corrupt, infiltrated, tabloid and propaganda all for the Democrats… it is about time that a Republican with a spine stood up to it.
Dead on correct Jeff. Steve Scalise’s attacker actually worked for Bernie Sander’s campaign as a volunteer. So if we use the same reasoning shown here today should Bernie Sanders also be at fault?
Bernie condemned the guy, didn’t insinuate the attack was a hoax, he didn’t lament that it was distracting from their campaign, etc. It’s not just the connection between the politicians, it’s how the matter is handled by the individual.
LOL. Kinda’ difficult to claim that the shooting of GOP law-makers on a baseball field was a hoax. Your comparison is quite flawed.
Trump condemned the “bomber” and the Pittsburgh shooting immediately. It was only after the MSM came out blaming him that he tweeted back attacks of the media.
Trump statement about mail bomber:
https://www.rt.com/usa/442383-trump-mail-bomber-political-violence/
Sounds like a good statement to me.
Yes. He’s good at reading off a teleprompter. But he invariably reverts to type within hours or days.
LOL, did you mean like this guy?
http://wblk.com/files/2011/10/ObamasTeleprompter.jpg
Yeah, Really Eric. This is one of biggest problems I see that is fomenting partisan divide. Would it kill you to just acknowledge when Trump does something well instead of always finding some way to pick at it?
I would celebrate any Democrat POTUS doing things right… acknowledge those things while also criticizing what I see him doing wrong. For example, when Obama tool out Osama I was giving him all sorts of kudos… except after when it was overblown as his shining achievement while ISIS grew into a monster.
I watch The Five every nigh while working out, and Juan Williams has the same problem… he is so consumed with dislike for Trump that he cannot acknowledge a single thing Trump does as good or right. It is a sign of TDS. It destroys credibility as a balanced and objective and thinking poster.
I wasn’t criticizing his use of a teleprompter. The point is that scripted, teleprompter-Donald is vastly different from Twitter-Donald and Rally-Donald, where he reveals his true character and toxic views.
You mean as opposed to Hillary that kept two phones and two email servers and admitted in emails that she kept two personas… one that the people saw and then the real her that she tried to hide.
You bring up a point about Trump that should be something lauded. That is that he is transparent. He is who he says he is… who he has always been. He says what is on his mind. He approves everything he reads on the teleprompter just like Obama… but Obama was/is blessed with better acting skills on the stump.
Obama was the actor playing POTUS. Trump is the authentic person being POTUS. It is upsetting to many because they are so used to the actor. I get that, but can’t we at least acknowledge the benefit of not having to guess what Trump is thinking? I find that refreshing even when I don’t agree with him.
Jeff M – To quote you, “You are so predictably tribal.” “But Hillary’s emails” is not a response to every criticism of Donald. For one thing, Donald is [gag] President of the United States; Hillary is not.
Wow, you can come up with ONE incident tied to an individual on the left. Meanwhile, white supremacists and other violent reactionary groups have committed the vast majority of terrorism attacks since 2001: “The GAO report examined terrorist violence from Sept. 12, 2001 — the day after the 9/11 terror attacks — through Dec. 31, 2016. It found 85 deadly attacks in the United States by violent extremists. Among those incidents, far-right violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 incidents (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 incidents (27 percent).”
Jeff M, you say “I would celebrate any Democrat POTUS doing things right.” That’s NOT true. I didn’t see you celebrating how Obama set the U.S. on a course to one of the longest continuous periods of growth in history, and a return to low unemployment. Trump has done nothing to change this course, and the bump in GDP growth can be explained entirely by the $300 billion bump in the deficit. We are generating “growth” simply by borrowing form the future. And I don’t see you celebrating Obama’s adoption of Romney’s health care plan, and the resulting dramatic drop in health care inflation.
You know the economy is doing really good when Obama and Democrats try to take the credit for it. Obama had a $870 Billion stimulus package and some of the lowest interest rates ever with trillions more for Quantitative Easing. Obama himself said that sluggish growth was the “new normal”. Except he was wrong, Trump’s economy, even though QE has ended and interest rates are starting to rise, has proved him wrong.
Having a conversation with Richard is like trying to talk with a shouting protestor that repeats political slogans and talking points that have no basis in reality but were repeated so many times by his radical college professor he thinks they just have to be true regardless of the facts.
The new talking point that the current economic growth is from Obama’s policies, while Obama’s mostly jobless and weak recovery during his office was Bush’s fault.
Egad this stuff is so unsatisfying to debate because it is all political spin.
There is a psychological impact when your POTUS stands up and tells you “you didn’t build that” and “you are not paying your fair share” and then layers on more job and business-killing regulations and tax increases than any other President before at the very time that the economy needed the opposite. Frankly, any orange-haired clown could have spurred stronger growth after Obama’s era… But we have one that is actually a business brain and knows about the psychology of a producer mentality. Suddenly it is in vogue again to be successful and get rich. That is the primary reason Trump is more successful with economic growth. The cut of taxes and regulations are just icing on the growth cake.
Eric – although I was never a supporter of Trump, thank God he beat her.
I do get your point… and I long for a Trump that would say more of the right things and less of the wrong things. But I am less interested in the words and the symbolism of leadership, and more interested in noting what actually gets done. The point is that Obama and Clinton are the standard that will say one thing and then do the other. That was the point. Trump the POTUS has a potty mouth and it sets off people that see the Presidency as almost like the British Monarchy… and it freaks them out and makes them ashamed. But frankly, the history of the US is not European in this regard. We are supposed to be a government by the people for the people… not government by the ruling class, for the ruling class. Trump is more genuine American in his crude American way. He is a nativist and not a globalist. He appeals to those of us that support nativism and reject globalism. I don’t care what our stuck up foreign elites think of us? And I think you and others might be missing the point on that anyway. It is always better to be respected for your actions than loved for your words… if you care about the long-game.
Jeff M and Keith O, I will repeat this reality–the increase in the U.S. GDP growth in 2018 is entirely attributable to the increase in the federal deficit. That deficit borrowed an additional $200B, and increasing, from future taxpayers and injected it back into the economy. I guess that we can celebrate that we borrowed on our line of credit and then spent it on more dinners out.
When you finally get around to acknowledging the validity of my statements and then we can have a real conversation. As it is, you both simply deny without factual basis or ignore each of my rebuttals as all Internet trolls do. You also change the discussion when you realize that you are losing, again a typical troll strategy. Personal put downs is a third typical tactic. I address each of your points directly to show that they are rarely valid.
Your defense of Trump’s behavior is typical of bullies who try to intimidate others in various ways. You want to be justified in your own belligerent behavior. Your personal attacks and name calling are prime examples of why our society is less civil now. You demand total capitulation with the only justification of personal privilege. What do you expect in response?
Jeff M
Apparently your singular definition of “nativists” is privileged white males. Trump has taken steps to limit the voice and opportunities for every other citizen group (and note that most African Americans have ancestral roots that go back at least 200 years.) By giving legitimacy to “nativists” which is a cover term for “white supremacists” you give permission for the violence that group carries out against other American citizens in the name of “nativism.”
Trump’s intent all along has been to discredit the press with constant references to “fake news” and “enemy of the people” so suggestive followers won’t believe negative press about him. Obviously, it’s working.
Well, you have selective memory or amnesia because the opinion of the MSM being biased and dishonest was common before Trump from polling. He is just the first Republican with a spine to put it out there.
https://goo.gl/images/PiB6Rh
I think part of what is driving media hate of Trump… especially Hollywood… is that he infiltrated their domain with his TV show. Remember that reality TV came about during a strike of the Hollywood writers union. Some say it has never recovered from it.
So Trump is one of them in some respect, but the kind that they hate.
And he became President in addition to being one of the actors that helped remake the entire TV-media entertainment industry! Ouch… that has to sting!
Jeff M
More fantasies. The GOP has been criticizing the media for more than 3o years. It began at least with Reagan. You must have been in high school when that began…
The media has been after Trump for far longer than his reality show. You must have been in high school when they went after him for his repeated casino bankruptcies…
Read “This Town”… it really started with the Clintons.
The media has not been after Trump since his reality show. You must not have even been born yet to make that claim.
Do I need to show you the interviews Trump had with Oprah and Letterman, etc.?
John: You’ve made it pretty clear how you feel about the Vanguard’s commenting policy. I’d ask if you really believe the following statement you made:
I don’t know at what point the Secret Service starts becoming concerned about such statements. But, I suspect that your statement falls short of that. (Certainly not something I’d encourage you to send to authorities, however. Unless you actually believe it – in which case I might encourage you to send it.)
Also, who are his “minions”? Does it include his entire administration, as well as Trump supporters, for example?
“Also, who are his “minions”? Does it include his entire administration, as well as Trump supporters, for example?”
There are people in the administration who do their jobs and try to keep their oath to the nation. There are members of Congress who are guilty of obstruction, lying under oath and collusion with foreign potentates, there are “supporters” who have actively obstructed justice.
Either we as a country will take the prescribed actions against these traitors or we will become another thugocracy like the Russian Republic.
For me, clarity occurred noting the MSM and entertainment industry joining the Democrat political machine and the MO was to character assassinate the Republican opposition. Reading the book “This Town” helped connect the dots that the media had merged with the establishment political system, and the system was becoming corrupt and broken beyond repair.
The media treatment of George Bush, Mitt Romney, John McCain and Sarah Palin compared to the Democrat candidates during those elections, demonstrated clearly that the voter influence deck was stacked in favor of the Democrats. And adding the the college campus leftist ideology programming was the icing on the cake.
We needed a disputer. In fact, the Democrats set the table for a disputer.
Trump is like a medicine that the patient is refusing to take.
In competition it is a common tactic to get the opposition off balance by inflaming their emotions. You can see it in professional sports. NBA players like Demarcus Cousins would get poked by his opponents and could not control his emotions and was never the leader he could otherwise be. Kobie Bryant and Michael Jordan would channel their energy into raising their game to the next level… and they became winning leaders.
Trump should be providing the Democrats with a clear message that they need to raise their game to the next level. However, what we are seeing instead is a bunch of Demarcus Cousins raging and getting technical fouls.
As a result we have stopped talking about a blue wave, and instead are talking about the possibility that the Democrats don’t take the House… unheard of in a midterm election where the GOP holds the legislative majority and the executive branch.
Moderates dislike Trump speech, but they seem to dislike the Democrat’s lack of positive politics more. We are seeing a new BLEXIT movement. We are seeing Trump approval ratings that equal and exceed Obama approval ratings.
I think the Democrats are choking on their own dog food right now. This perpetual attempt to use every crisis and every media event as an opportunity for negative branding of the GOP and Trump character assassination is doing nothing for them.
It appears that the Democrats are latching onto healthcare as their hope for the mid terms. I think they are going to need much more than that to make up for their own self-inflicted negative branding. Even if they take the house, I expect it to just result in another red wave in 2020.
” Even if they take the house, I expect it to just result in another red wave in 2020.”
If they don’t take the house, why would Putin bother to have a 2020 election?
Meanwhile, another leading Democrat gets away with another racist remark that would be used by the mob to pillar a Republican. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/30/hillary-clinton-jokes-they-all-look-alike-after-in/?fbclid=IwAR2ubY50qKiIkiLbUQYIcmgi6VUCpyNqa9AP7rlxx5FXHsIqpUTW4_QKNvA
Wow, you found ONE more comment. Meanwhile, we only need to read today’s news to find AT LEAST one more coming from “our” President…
No. He didn’t find one more. Even the Washington Times (conservative MSM, by the way) article gives the context–that Clinton was making a sarcastic joke at the expense of the person conducting the interview, who confused Cory Booker with Eric Holder.
Try again, Jeff.
Unbelievable overt double-standard. Tribalism lives!
So then, what is your opinion of this?…
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/megyn-kelly-nbc-fired-blackface-747389/
Are you suggesting that Megyn Kelly is a liberal?
Eric… flaming liberal compared to many of the uber-conservatives here…
And then there is this… http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/october_2018/voters_think_reporters_trying_to_help_democrats_in_midterm_elections
Thread cleanup: 17 comments removed, 5 edited.
The word you’re looking for is “pillory” benighted bankster. Who taught who? ;>)/
Bravo. I commend you on your finding of a spelling error. Maybe that will improve your feeling better about yourself today.
Not a spelling error, Jeff. M, a factual one, though I know you don’t care much for facts. A pillar is an architectural structure that if dropped on a Republican could certainly be effective, but not a likely scenario.
Now that is funny! Stick with that type of stuff and there may be a purpose for you here.
There was a third racist terrorist attack last week as well, where the shooter first tried to enter an African American church before going to the store.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/26/us/kentucky-kroger-shooting/index.html
Keith
I think our earlier exchange summed up the point of responsibility very succinctly.
I asked who was responsible for Trump’s words and actions. And you responded:
“And who’s responsible for the Democrat’s and the biased mainstream media’s words and actions?”
You cannot even say the words. You cannot even acknowledge that no one but Trump is responsible for his words and acts. You know that is not true of me since I criticized the actions of Obama many times on these pages. But you simple cannot bring yourself to criticize Trump in any way at all. Even to state the absolute obvious.
There you go again Tia projecting what others think when you so hate it when that’s done to you.
I have criticized Trump on this forum. I’ve often said Trump was a terrible candidate but was better than the other option, Hillary.
I’ve also stated that I wanted another Republican to beat out Trump in the primaries because I really didn’t think Trump could win an election. Boy was I wrong, just as wrong as every Democrat in America.
Then Keith O, show us that you have a spine and criticize Trump for the divisiveness he sews. Instead, you just look like an anonymous lackey.
Liberals get all wee weed up over words and symbols.
Conservatives tend to focus on substance.
Trump has the guts to stand up to the unfair biased left wing mainstream media. I commend him for that. I know you lefties want him to just take it and not respond but it’s refreshing that he stands up to them. Does Trump sometimes go over the top, yes he does and it can make me cringe. But overall Trump has been a pleasant surprise and that’s why all Democrats afflicted with TDS can’t stand it, because he’s winning. It’s fun to sit back and watch the left become more unhinged.
Bovine manure is a substance, Jeff…
True. And if we are being literal and not symbolic, Trump has not yet produced any. Although I am guessing with the economy raging that more ranchers are busy producing more bovine manure. And if we are being literal and focused on substance, that is a good thing.
Jeff M – Conservatives tend to focus on substance? What about the outrage over flag burning, kneeling during the anthem, and refusals to say the pledge of allegiance? That outrage DEFINES the current reactionary movement. BTW, the “conservative” movement is dead–none of its purported core principles are being pursued anymore by the GOP.
Keith O – Standing up to the “liberal media” does not mean ending all civility in that discussion. Professionally, I constantly come across the incompetence and bias of the media, but I don’t commend allies for physically attacking members of the media. Understand, the issue here isn’t about the message as about HOW the message is being delivered in a way that has now fomented violence.
Good job Richard. I agree with you on this. And I wish Trump would ignore these things and let let conservatives duke it out with liberals as to what symbolism is the most important to ban, denigrate or enhance.
But keep in mind with your examples, these are all leftist protests. In other words active defiance of existing and long-standing standards meant to poke the opposition in the eye. Not seeing the same from Trump or conservatives. Maybe you can do some more thinking to come up with examples.
However, I was talking about my focus on Trump’s performance getting things done and not the words he says or does not say.
It is a weird thing I see in liberals… I think because they are more often paper-pushers who never worked at building anything tangible, they life in the words in their heads as if that is where reality begins and ends… the tangible, physical stuff is abstract to them. Like I said, it is weird.
Obama says something that they clap each other on the back as a job well done.
Trump actually does what he says he will, but says the wrong thing and they start freaking out that the world will end.
Did I say “weird”?
“wee weed up”
Now that speaks volumes about his maturity and the substance on which republicans focus.
Catch up Hobbs… this is a term from your hero.
I would like you all to focus on principles, and please stop the personal attacks. Also, posts with lots of links don’t get past the spam filter.
Moderator, first delete the posts that START the personal attacks. You will find that virtually all of them are from the anonymous posters. You might pull the privileges of anonymous posters, and the name calling will disappear.
Second, links in posts are extremely valuable in establishing the validity of statements. That would appear to be a problem with the Vanguard’s software. If you are not allowing links, then you need a different approach to fact checking.
You don’t know how to blog very well it seems. Let me give you some advice. You should focus on the ideas and the identity of groups holding those ideas, and stop taking it to a personal level. I slip up every now and then and I thank the moderator for pulling my post. But generally I am only responding to folks like you and Hobbs that go personal first.
Please go back and identify anything that I posted that started as a personal attack.
Talk about passive aggressive. Read some of your own posts and then get back to the moderator about who’s actually doing most of the personal attacks and name calling.
Secondly, I never attack anyone unless I’m attacked first, but I will fight back.
It allows a couple of links but not a lot, and I don’t know what the cutoff is. I just know that posts that have a lot of links get pulled by the spam filter when it makes a sweep. So it might appear, and then disappear. And then keep disappearing if I restore it. So just try to keep links to a minimum.
That is above my pay grade.
Some comments from Richard:
So tell us who’s doing the name calling again?
And here Keith. He called you spineless and and a lackey.
Richard – you asked for a list of Democrat divisive and ugly words and behavior…
October 29, 2018: Actor James Cromwell: There will Be ‘Blood in the Streets’ Unless Trump Stopped
October 29, 2018: Twitter allows 179 death threats against Trump
October 29, 2018: FL: Shots Fired into South Daytona Republican Party Office
October 28, 2018: Left-wing mobs disrupt Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) rally
October 25, 2018: New York Times runs story fantasizing about Trump’s assassination
October 25, 2018: GOP headquarters vandalized in Iowa City, IA
October 24, 2018: Left-wing activist with history of harassing GOP lawmakers arrested for trying to buy radioactive material
October 24, 2018: N.J. GOP Congressional Candidate Receives Letter Threatening His Children
October 23, 2018: Boulder thrown through Rep. McCarthy’s (R-CA) office window
October 21, 2018: Obama’s former deputy secretary of state, Philippe Reines says harassment of McConnell and his wife “is fine”
October 20, 2018: Watch–Angry Leftists Harass McConnell, Wife at Restaurant: ‘Why Don’t You Get Out of Here?’
October 19, 2018: New York Man Charged With Threatening Two Senators Over Kavanaugh Support
October 18, 2018: Dem operative for Soros-funded group arrested for ‘battery’ against Nevada GOP candidate’s campaign manager
October 18, 2018: Rosie O’Donnell calls on military to remove Trump
October 17, 2018: TN Restaurant owner’s life threatened for renting space to GOP’s Marsha Blackburn
October 17, 2018: Portland Antifa tells 9/11 NYPD widow “YOUR HUSBAND SHOULD FUC*ING ROT IN THE GRAVE”
October 17, 2018: Professor calls for harassing Republicans at restaurants, sticking ‘fingers in their salads’
October 16, 2018: Person claimed ricin was in letter sent to Senator Collins home
October 16, 2018: Left-wing comedian gets physical with Trump supporter at Hooters
October 16, 2018: Republican candidate Shane Mekeland punched in Minnesota restaurant
October 16, 2018: Gov. Cuomo (D-NY) Blames GOP for Antifa Attack on Manhattan Club
October 16, 2018: Republican State Rep. Sarah Anderson assaulted in Minnesota
October 16, 2018: DFL Employee Calls for Republicans to be Beheaded
October 15, 2018: Vermont GOP House Candidate Receives Threatening Letter
October 13, 2018: VIDEO: Republican Justin Fareed’s Campaign Canvasser Allegedly Chased, Assaulted
October 12, 2018: GOP office vandalized in Mesa, AZ
October 12, 2018: Antifa Smash Windows, Deface Doors of Metropolitan Republican Club in Manhattan
October 11, 2018: Anti-Trump Protester Threatens to Rape Conservative Reporter
October 11, 2018: A truck with ‘Trump 2020’ bumper stickers was left at a bar overnight. Someone set it on fire.
October 10, 2018: Susan Rice’s Republican Son Assaulted at Pro-Kavanaugh Event
October 10, 2018: Eric Holder Tells Dem Activists: ‘When They Go Low, We Kick ‘Em’
October 10, 2018: CNN says mobs have “constitutional right” to chase Republicans out of restaurants
October 9, 2018: Hillary Clinton opposes “civility” with Republicans.
October 8, 2018: Raw Story’s Editor: Steve Scalise ‘Accomplice’ to His Attempted Murder
October 8, 2018: Leftist Teacher Tweets: “So Who’s Gonna Take One For the Team and Kill Kavanaugh?”
October 8, 2018: Antifa Takes Over Portland, Harasses Old Man for Disobeying
October 8, 2018: Rand Paul’s Wife: I Sleep with a Loaded Gun Thanks to Leftists’ Threats
October 7, 2018: Sen. Cory Gardner claims wife received a beheading video over Kavanaugh vote.
October 6, 2018: Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) harassed at airport
October 6, 2018: Kavanaugh Protesters Accost an Elderly Trump Supporter
October 6, 2018: Sen. Collins Flooded with Abusive Tweets Threatening Death, Violence
October 5, 2018: Protesters Chase Graham To His Car Saying They Will Remove Him From Office
October 4, 2018: Republican Senators Hit With Death Threats Amidst Kavanaugh Fight
October 3, 2018: Ricin and threatening letter sent to Trump
October 2, 2018: 2 hospitalized after exposure to powdery substance at Cruz’s Houston campaign office
October 2, 2018: GOP Congressman Andy Harris (R-MD) assaulted by protesters
October 1, 2018: Vandals Hit IL GOP Headquarters With ‘RAPE’ Graffiti
October 1, 2018: Senator Mitch McConnell Badgered At Airport By Anti-Kavanaugh Activists
September 30, 2018: Georgetown prof: White GOP senators in Kavanaugh hearing ‘deserve miserable deaths’
September 27, 2018: Republican Senators doxxed by Democrat Congressional intern
September 25, 2018: CNN Defends harassment of Ted Cruz
September 25, 2018: Ted Cruz and Wife harassed out of DC restaurant
September 20, 2018: Brett Kavanaugh and family receive death threats
September 17, 2018: Gov. Jerry Brown (D-CA) “Something’s got to happen to this guy [Trump], because if we don’t get rid of him…”
September 12, 2018: Resistance Makes Rape Threat to Susan Collins Staffer over Kavanaugh Vote
September 11, 2018: DC police investigate threat to commit mass shooting at a MAGA event in Trump International Hotel
September 11, 2018: Threats of Rape and Strangling’ Force Writer Into Hiding After Anti-Abortion Tweet
September 11, 2018: Trump Hater Attacks California GOP House Candidate wth Switchblade
September 10, 2018: Hispanic Immigrant says she was spit on in Santa Monica for Trump hat.
September 10,2018: Broadway Star Carole Cook on Trump: ‘Where’s John Wilkes Booth When you Need Him?
September 6, 2018: Media and Leftists Harass Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) and His Family
September 6, 2018: Black Trump Fan Booted from Bar for Wearing Trump Hat
September 6, 2018: Arsonists hit Albany County GOP Headquarters in Laramie, WY.
September 5, 2018: TV Writer Hopes Kavanaugh Daughters ‘Go to School Without Being Shot’
September 5, 2018: Man Ahouting ‘Treason’ Intentionally Rammed Truck into Local Fox Station KDFW
August 31, 2018: Dem Rep. Ruben Gallego Threatens Immigration Officials
August 28, 2018: California student arrested for stealing MAGA hat from classmate, slapping teacher
August 27, 2018: “F” Trump: Flagstaff, AZ, GOP Office Vandalized
August 19, 2018: Dad Dares Daughter To Knock Off Guy’s MAGA Hat For 100 Bucks. She Does It.
August 18, 2018: Trump supporter assaulted by aging punk rocker.
August 14, 2018: CNN’s Chris Cuomo justifies and encourages violence against Trump supporters.
August 12, 2018: TX Restaurant forced to close social media accounts over photo of Jeff Sessions
August 9, 2018: ‘Frozen’ Actor snatches Trump banner away from audience member
August 9, 2018: FBI announce arrest for contract killing threat of ICE agent via Twitter
August 9, 2018: Antifa blocks Infowars reporter’s access to park
August 8, 2018: Democrat protester harass GOP rep. “Shame on your Mexican wife!”
August 6, 2018: Infowars reported harassed by Antifa in Portland
August 6, 2018: FL: Vandals throw dead fish on Lee Co. Republican headquarters
August 4, 2018: Democrat Alison Grimes ‘Jokes’ about Rand Paul beating
August 4, 2018: Trump supporter’s car has all 4 tires slashed in Philly.
August 4, 2018: Left-wing terrorists Antifa follow and harass Candace Owens
August 3, 2018: Anarchy Breaks Out in Portland, With the Mayor’s Blessing
August 2, 2018: Man arrested for threatening Rep. SteveScalise
August 1, 2018: Woman charged with trying to hit man with her car over Trump sticker
July 28, 2018: Sen. Cory Booker Pleads for Supporters to ‘Get Up in the Face of Congresspeople’
July 26, 2018: KY: Fayette County GOP headquarters vandalized
July 26, 2018: Trump supporter punched in Hollywood
July 25, 2018: Trump’s Hollywood Walk of Fame star destroyed … again.
July 25, 2018: Man arrested, indicted on charges after allegedly threatening Congresswoman Diane Black
July 24, 2018: Sen Cory Booker (D-NJ) Says Brett Kavanaugh supporters are “complicit in evil”
July 23, 2018: Denver Post Runs Letter to Editor Suggesting Trump Should Be Executed
July 23, 2018: Elizabeth Warren Supporter Shoves Challenger
July 20, 2018: Green-Haired “Gender Fluid” Guy Spits All Over Teen’s MAGA Hat
July 20, 2018: ‘Hang Trump’ Shirt Peddled on Facebook
July 19, 2018: ‘New Yorker’ Kills Trump
July 19, 2018: CA Anti-Trump Protesters Target Legal Immigrant’s Cafe Over Trump Support, Hurl Feces
July 17, 2018: Uber Driver Refuses to Serve Black Conservatives Over MAGA Hat
July 17, 2018: Gory Trump Throat-Cutting Art Decorates Portland Gallery
July 16, 2018: House Democrat Calls For ‘Military Folks’ To ‘Stop Trump’
July 16, 2018: Mob chases pro-Trump group out of Los Angeles bar
July 15, 2018: Social Distortion singer attacks Trump supporter
July 15, 2018: Anti-Trump Paraglider Who Buzzed Trump Visit Arrested in Britain
July 15, 2018: Former Clinton WH Staffer: It’s ‘Tempting’ to Beat up Rand Paul
July 13, 2018: Anti-Israel protesters harass Jared and Ivanka with loud speakers outside their home
July 13, 2018: 76-year-old man assaulted by anti-Trump thugs in San Diego.
July 11, 2018: ABC’s Terry Moran shames Fox News’s Shannon Bream for feeling threatened at SCOTUS protest
July 10, 2018: Protesters arrested, accused of assaulting officer at Portland ICE office
July 10, 2018: Man threatens to ‘curb stomp’ Trump supporter at Disneyland
July 10, 2018: Fox News Reporter Harassed, Threatened And Forced To Leave Supreme Court By Leftist Mob
February 22, 2018: Guardian, HuffPost Contributor Karen Geier: ‘Hopefully’ Kim Jong Un ‘Can Drop a Bomb on CPAC’
February 21, 2018: CNN audience shouts “murderer” at Dana Loesch
February 21, 2018: CNN publicly smears elderly Trump supporter as Russian plant, death threats follow
February 8, 2018: Northeastern University wishes death on Trump during lecture
February 8, 2018: Journalist calls for profs to drown conservative students
February 7, 2018: Trump supporters’ home vandalized in Oceanside CA
February 7, 2018: Democrat attested for sending white powder to Donald Trump Jr.
February 2, 2018: CNN Writer Thanks God for Fatal GOP Train Wreck
January 31, 2018: Party thrown to hurl stuff at television image of Trump.
January 29, 2018: Saginaw, MI businessman’s Trump sign vandalized.
January 24, 2018: Portland, OR, Trump supporter punched in head at protest
January 22, 2018: AntiFa calls for “riot porn” against Trump supporter Tom, Brady
January 21, 2018: NY: Protester charged in Trump supporter attack tried to put cop in headlock
December 20, 2017: AntiFa terrorists assault Trump supporter outside bookstore
December 18, 2017: Eminem song ‘Framed’ plots assassination of Ivanka Trump
December 9, 2017: Students wearing MAGA hats booted from ‘safe space’ coffee shop
December 3, 2017: Trump supporter’ home and vehicle vandalized for second time.
November 27, 2017: Singer Morrissey: I would kill Trump ‘for the safety of humanity’
November 22, 2017: Trump-hater snatches, steals student’s MAGA hat.
November 22, 2017: Man mistaken for Trump supporter attacked
November 20, 2017: University of IL instructor assault Trump supporters
November 13, 2017: Trump supporter assaulted for wearing MAGA hat.
November 12, 2017: Blaire White attacked for wearing MAGA hat
November 3, 2017: ‘Multicultural’ office at Providence College hosts ‘stab a Trumpkin’ display
October 31, 2017: ShareBlue, American Bridger operative Mike Stark arrested for harassing Ed Gillespie in VA
October 26, 2017: SF Gate columnist says death threats against EPA chief Scott Pruitt make sense
October 24, 2017: MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace: Trump Administration Does ‘Not Appear to Be Human Beings’
October 19, 2017: Left-wing thugs arrested for disrupting College Republican meeting, shouting “fascists,” “racists” and “white supremacists”
September 28, 2017: Education Secretary Betsy DeVos heckled as “white supremacist” during speech.
September 26, 2017: Professor Doubles Down on Tweet Saying ‘Trump Must Hang’
September 17, 2017: Trump supporter physically assault in Roosevelt High School gym.
September 15, 2017: CNN host “jokes” about killing Trump with hemlock in his food.
September 10, 2017: Portland police arrest seven in latest antifa violence aimed at Patriot Prayer
September 4, 2017: Georgia Teacher Kicks Out Students Over “Neo-Nazi” MAGA Shirt
August 28, 2017: Car with Trump bumper sticker vandalized in San Francisco.
August 28, 2017: Trump supporter Arthur assaulted in Berkeley
August 28, 2017: Left-wing AntiFa terrorists attack peaceful Trump supporters at Berkeley.
August 28, 2017: GOP headquarters in Fayetteville, KY vandalized. “Die Nazi Scum” spray painted on windows.
August 27, 2017: Vandals deface Trump supporter’s lawn signs.
August 24, 2017: PA AntiFa Cell Calls for Violence Against Police, All-out Revolutio
August 24, 2017: Black Trump supporter spit at for wearing MAGA hat.
August 23, 2017: Black Trump supporter sucker punched in Laguna Beach.
August 23, 2017: Black Trump supporter punched multiple times while leaving Trump’s Arizona rally
August 19, 2017: WATCH: Older Woman Holding American Flag Hit, Dragged in Boston
August 18. 2017: Top Missouri Democrat calls for Trump to be “assassinated.”
August 17, 2017: ‘Nazis’ spray painted on New Hampshire GOP headquarters
August 16, 2017: Anti-Donald Trump campaigner ‘shoots Republican neighbour twice in the head’
August 14, 2017: After Branding Trump a Fascist, Never Trumper Calls for Lynching of Fascists
August 14, 2017: Conservative student attacked for “YAF” hat at vigil for Charlottesville victims.
July 31, 2017: Women’s studies professor wants Trump shot
July 25, 2017: Fox News commenter soaked with water
July 19, 2017: Rosie O’Donnell sparks outrage with Trump-killing game
July 7, 2017: Student threatened for supporting Trump.
July 7, 2017: Man attacked for wearing MAGA hat in New York bar.
July 5, 2017: CNN threatens to expose Trump supporter to online mob over parody video.
Enough for now…
I am guessing that Jeff and Richard didn’t grow up in a home that got “both” the National Review “and” Mother Jones. After college I read the Wall Street Journal and the Bay Guardian every week. Today I get info from Blogs with VERY different points of view and I have not watched more than a minute of TV news since 2005 (I quit cold turkey after Katrina).
Anyone that reads the list Jeff posts would think “Democrats are a bunch of crazy people” and since FOX news, Rush Limbaugh reports stuff like this day after day many right wingers grab their kids and run when they see a Democrat. CNBC and the NY Times gives people on the left a similar list of crazy things that Republicans do every few days it is why most Democrats think that “Republicans are a bunch of crazy people” (and run before the Republicans can spread their “hate” to their kids).
I bet Jeff and Richard will actually probably agree on 99% of everything (like the sky is blue, clean air is good, tacos are yummy and a cold beer tastes great on a hot day), but the rich politically connected Republicans “and” rich politically connected Democrats (Someone posted on another thread today how rich Feinstein’s husband is but only the “far” left and “far” right has any idea that Senator Feinstein and her 3rd Husband Dick are probably richer than President Trump and his 3rd wife Melania) want us to all keep fighting about transgender bathrooms and kneeling at football games so we don’t notice how we are getting ripped off by the rich and politically connected (who mostly get along and just avoid the topics they disagree on when playing dominoes at the PU Club and Bohemian Club)…
Boy o boy, what a choice for CA Senator the Democrats have left us with.
Feinstein or De Leon.
Hold your nose when you vote, I’ll be abstaining as I can’t vote for either of these jokes.
Let’s see… lack of votes for Republican candidates set that up, right? Guess if you are the third largest party affiliation in CA, you are a minority, and should get your candidates voted in to represent the minority… “affirmative action”, if you will. A very conservative Republican concept. Whose time, hopefully, will never come.
You may want to abstain from the vote for Governor, as well… Cox was not a good Republican choice. Pretty much everyone needs to hold their nose on that one, and Cox will likely come in as a limp second.
edited
Nope, wrong again there Howard old buddy.
The Democrats had the votes and controlled the process so they’re responsible for the two sorry choices we now have. Who do you like? I say both are useless.
edited
No Keith… those who eschew both the [Democrats] and [Republicans] had the swing votes (NPP)… you fail to acknowledge that rupubicans are third in registered voters… the [Democrats] are losing percentages, too. So both major parties are being more and more estranged from the electorate… a pox on both, as it were.
Enjoy your minority status. It is likely to continue, particularly with the spew from the uber-left and uber right… Lincoln was a moderate… first Republican president. Now the left sees him as weak, the right sees him as a limp do-gooder. Both major parties, particularly in CA, offend the ’emerging majority’.
Deal with it, or move to Wyoming where they get more congressional representation than they deserve (by population) [feel free to calculate those numbers]… a very “red” state.
As usual, you “cherry-pick” comments to foment division… your right…
And, VERY ADULT of you to attack any view that is not your own… will refrain from using additional adjectives that could be applied justly to POTUS and his minions.
[Moderator: edited. We don’t allow ‘cute’ derogatory names for the parties or public officials.]
Good stuff Ken A. I bet you are correct. However, I think I do pretty good getting my news and information from a variety of sources. NYT, WSJ, Davis Enterprise, The Economist, Reason Magazine, Esquire Magazine (my wife’s), Cooks Magazine (miss Christopher Kimball), Wine Spectator, Whiskey Spectator, Cigar Aficionado, Scientific American, The American Conservative, The Atlantic. The only TV news I get is watching DVR recordings of The Five on Fox, and the PBS News Hour while exercising. Always reading a book or two… currently reading Through the Shadow Lands… the love story of C.S. Lewis and Joy Davidman. Which is interesting given the topic of antisemitism on the rise. And a book on Leonardo Da Vinci… also very cool in understanding Florence and Milan at this time of the Renaissance… they were Davis-like but with much better architecture.
David’s article has hit on some important points and I appreciate it. The endless comments thereafter are not helpful. Could we all stipulate the following or are our divisions so great that even these are a bridge too far:
1. When an act like the Pittsburgh murders is committed we can and should expect local and national leaders to condemn both the ACT and any stated philosophy underlying the act—such as, in this case, an appeal to Jewish conspiracy theories, general hatred of Jews or other.
2. Condemnation of the act should take at face value the reasoning articulated by the perpetrator on their verified social media accounts or in other venues.
3. As a corollary, the condemnation should also include condemning resources utilized by the perpetrator that encourage philosophies that are hateful to specific groups—even if they do not incite to violence (why should inciting violence be the only time we condemn speech?)
4. Begin our response by accepting that mass killings of this nature ARE political statements of some sort, even if issuing from the mind of a deranged individual. In that sense we can simply agree that they are acts of terror and should be treated as such.
5. Begin our response by eschewing, until further proof is obtained, that such incidents are “false flags” designed to further divide or accuse “the other side.” This is Occam’s Razor in practice and applies because conspiracies are simply too difficult to pull off and the best answer is the most straightforward one.
6. Words, symbols AND acts matter. We can’t simply suggest that people grow thicker skin or “grow up” in the face of hateful language.
7. Condemning hateful words and symbols is NOT the same as restricting their use—ergo, free speech. Leaders can condemn and still recognize basic consitutional rights to free speech.
8. Finally, the needs of victims should ALWAYS be forefront in our minds after such events. What will make for their healing should guide our first response to an act such as these. Leaders should be clear about their commitment to justice which focuses on the needs of victims first.
There may be others but I think what we need to find in this time is a set of values and practices we can use in the face of these acts. Further work must be done to deal with prevention and there may be GREAT disagreement about that. Okay… but can we at least start here?
This is great stuff from Robb!
I agree with this. Same with Palestinians shooting rockets into Israel. And liberal activists like Antifa using physical violence.
I agree with this. Even the social media sites that are taken down right before she testifies claiming she was sexually assaulted 36 years ago.
Lost me there. You seem to be doing that “all people are equal, except some people are more equal than others” thing. I don’t accept your “specific groups” point and I suggest we all consider that this is a divisive resource and philosophy that encourages division and hate. Free speech must be free speech for all. We cannot achieve equality with memes of group favoritism.
Interesting. So, we are going to assign a political motive to all mass killings? Are all acts of terror political in nature? I don’t see that. I think they are sometimes tribal. Tribalism is natural human behavior, but sucks in my opinion when it leads to open conflict and violence. However, I do see that politics has a role in fomenting tribalism. Maybe we should do better abstracting out the root causes of people becoming more violent… other than the easy one to understand that we allow insane people to live among us.
Sure, but only if along with this we eschew the assignment of external blame until further proof is obtained. I hope you don’t need me to list the MSM reports that Trump’s language was to blame… I think those reports started before the last shell casing hit the ground.
Now here is where we would need to have a spirited debate. Hate speech is hate speech. Speech that upsets and irritates is protected speech. Growing thicker skin it what we are suppose to do in our development from child to adult. Protection from the sting of being criticized isn’t a sustainable entitlement. When we allow the constant moving goal posts to eliminate words and symbols that trigger we eliminate free speech. More importantly we foment more division because people stop associating and talking with each other. If someone feels unsafe being targeted for uttering a word that then results in personal destruction from a PC mob, then that person will stop talking to those that are deemed a risk for making claims. That isn’t good for bringing people together. I see a fantastic and weird double-standard with this stuff as hypersensitive word people seem to be demanding a homogenization of speech while also demanding diversity and multiculturalism. It is whacked… or it is just one of those condemning resources supporting a political agenda.
We need to get back to the origins of what hate laws were meant to protect… and it is much different than what many believe it should protect today.
I agree with this 100%. That is why we should all join together in admonishing CNN for coming out immediately to blame Trump, and Trump should be lauded for his immediate words that were 100% inconsideration of the victims.
An important point, but you wouldn’t gather that from online blogs (which encourage divisiveness). I don’t know – maybe such debates serve some purpose when making decisions, or in looking at things from a different perspective.
One thing for sure is that the simple question/theory from one of the commenters isn’t something that requires intensive/extensive “condemnation”. Truth be told, we don’t need leaders to tell us that shootings/bombings/violence/threats (for just about any reason) are “bad”. (Except for “justified” wars, I guess. Even that I’m less certain of, as I get older.)
This need to blame Trump for all these acts reminds me of the Reno trial of Judas Priest for their version of the song “Better by You, Better than Me”, blaming their version of the song for supposedly causing two teenage boys to attempt suicide. The correlation is loose at best, more to the point ridiculous. But the boys listened to the song over and over again, on drugs, a song about suicide — more to the point criticizing it.
. . . and the song was written by Spooky Tooth.
. . . and no doubt Trump is a pompous arse.
But I hate it when whatever side is out of power goes psycho-mental blaming the ‘other side’s’ president for every d**n thing. The Repubs to Obama, the Dems to Trump. Just shut the F up, all you partisans!
I despise Trump, I am repulsed by Hillary, and as a Jew, I don’t blame Trump for the actions of a lunatic.
And Judas Priest was found innocent.