According to accounts in the local paper, the man was in his late 40s, had checked into Safe Harbor Crisis house which is a short-term program for people who have mental health issues that they need to resolve.
The police were called in after he left the facility to determine if he posed a threat to himself and the public.
When the police found he was confrontational and ignored their instructions. He became increasingly agitated.
It was at this point that they determined he needed to be taken into custody. They used their Tasers. The Taser did not have an immediate effect. Apparently they tasered him a total of four times and also struck him with the batons.
It was during that process that Mr. Abrahams died.
I was not there and have not talked to anyone who was on the scene. However, while acknowledging that, there are several concerns about how this proceeded.
I have spoken with several officers and several people who work with the police on these types of issues. Everyone is concerned with the use of the Taser in this case, particularly the use of the Taser four times and the baton strikes.
The first point to note is that the individual was mentally ill. Automatically there should have been an expectation that the individual might not be responsive to some commands and instructions.
Was the person a danger to himself or the public at this point? They describe him as agitated but unarmed except with a pencil. So was there a need to immediately get him into custody or could they have called someone better able to console and calm the man?
The officers I talked with said they knew little about the officers involved on the scene, but suggested there is often an over-reliance on tools such as the Taser rather than the ability to understand and control the scene verbally and to recognize that an individual might not be responsive.
Tasers are marketed as an non-lethal alternative to firearms. However, as the Sacramento Bee article pointed out there have been 300 deaths since 2001 of people who have been shot by Tasers. Of course from those stats it is hard to determine if there is a net loss of life or a saving of life by its use.
However, increasingly people are complaining that Tasers are too quickly administered because of the non-lethal marketing as opposed to other techniques.
These are all questions that need to be answered.
Again, I will stress I was not there nor was I in the officers shoes, but based on media reports I am very concerned with how this was handled as were most of the people I spoke to, again, several of them were experienced police officers.
Meanwhile in an interesting twist, the Yolo County District Attorney’s Office is not investigating this case because Mr. Abrahams was an intern with their department.
Woodland police investigators are conducting the investigation with help from the Sheriff’s Department and several of the local law enforcement agencies. The Attorney General’s Office will receive the results of the case for review.
This is the type of case that would seem to beg for some sort of independent investigation. We will see what they come up.
—Doug Paul Davis reporting
You (DPD) should do the investigation since you’re so objective and intelligent.
You (DPD) should do the investigation since you’re so objective and intelligent.
You (DPD) should do the investigation since you’re so objective and intelligent.
You (DPD) should do the investigation since you’re so objective and intelligent.
I should no more do the investigation than the Woodland police. That’s my only point there. And that’s not a criticism of the Woodland Police. It is a question of public trust and impartiality.
If these officers did what they needed to do, and acted completely right, and an investigation finds that to be the case, I would think that people would want to have complete trust that that investigation was done thoroughly, by the books, and by an impartial body.
If the Woodland PD finds that to be the case, there will always be questions and that is unfair to the officers involve–just as unfair as a witch hunt.
I should no more do the investigation than the Woodland police. That’s my only point there. And that’s not a criticism of the Woodland Police. It is a question of public trust and impartiality.
If these officers did what they needed to do, and acted completely right, and an investigation finds that to be the case, I would think that people would want to have complete trust that that investigation was done thoroughly, by the books, and by an impartial body.
If the Woodland PD finds that to be the case, there will always be questions and that is unfair to the officers involve–just as unfair as a witch hunt.
I should no more do the investigation than the Woodland police. That’s my only point there. And that’s not a criticism of the Woodland Police. It is a question of public trust and impartiality.
If these officers did what they needed to do, and acted completely right, and an investigation finds that to be the case, I would think that people would want to have complete trust that that investigation was done thoroughly, by the books, and by an impartial body.
If the Woodland PD finds that to be the case, there will always be questions and that is unfair to the officers involve–just as unfair as a witch hunt.
I should no more do the investigation than the Woodland police. That’s my only point there. And that’s not a criticism of the Woodland Police. It is a question of public trust and impartiality.
If these officers did what they needed to do, and acted completely right, and an investigation finds that to be the case, I would think that people would want to have complete trust that that investigation was done thoroughly, by the books, and by an impartial body.
If the Woodland PD finds that to be the case, there will always be questions and that is unfair to the officers involve–just as unfair as a witch hunt.
I concur an independent review is appropriate.
I concur an independent review is appropriate.
I concur an independent review is appropriate.
I concur an independent review is appropriate.
The female officer in the photo that was in the Daily Democrat the morning after the death apparently used a taser less than two weeks before that incident on a person at the Lincoln Avenue Apartments in Woodland. There surely is too much of a reliance on these “non-lethal” weapons if you use them twice in just over a week.
The female officer in the photo that was in the Daily Democrat the morning after the death apparently used a taser less than two weeks before that incident on a person at the Lincoln Avenue Apartments in Woodland. There surely is too much of a reliance on these “non-lethal” weapons if you use them twice in just over a week.
The female officer in the photo that was in the Daily Democrat the morning after the death apparently used a taser less than two weeks before that incident on a person at the Lincoln Avenue Apartments in Woodland. There surely is too much of a reliance on these “non-lethal” weapons if you use them twice in just over a week.
The female officer in the photo that was in the Daily Democrat the morning after the death apparently used a taser less than two weeks before that incident on a person at the Lincoln Avenue Apartments in Woodland. There surely is too much of a reliance on these “non-lethal” weapons if you use them twice in just over a week.
According to the papers, this victim had a history of mental illness. You would think that came up in the background check that the DA’s office does for every employee – interns are subject to the same background check. If so, why did the DA’s office hire him in the first place?
According to the papers, this victim had a history of mental illness. You would think that came up in the background check that the DA’s office does for every employee – interns are subject to the same background check. If so, why did the DA’s office hire him in the first place?
According to the papers, this victim had a history of mental illness. You would think that came up in the background check that the DA’s office does for every employee – interns are subject to the same background check. If so, why did the DA’s office hire him in the first place?
According to the papers, this victim had a history of mental illness. You would think that came up in the background check that the DA’s office does for every employee – interns are subject to the same background check. If so, why did the DA’s office hire him in the first place?
My view is that too many police officers are using tasers as if they are toys.
The problem with this case is not this case alone. This is at least the fourth case in Northern California – all involving people with mental issues, the use of tasers and death. All of the other cases started with parents calling police to help with an agitated child, again with some mental issues. In each case the police arrived, inflamed the situation, used tasers a number of times and the subject died. The police ended up killing the people they were called to help. I am sure each of the specific police agencies learned something from the events, but it does not seem as if the information is getting out to other police agencies.
The most important thing that can come out of the investigation is a better process for dealing with situations like this.SAH
My view is that too many police officers are using tasers as if they are toys.
The problem with this case is not this case alone. This is at least the fourth case in Northern California – all involving people with mental issues, the use of tasers and death. All of the other cases started with parents calling police to help with an agitated child, again with some mental issues. In each case the police arrived, inflamed the situation, used tasers a number of times and the subject died. The police ended up killing the people they were called to help. I am sure each of the specific police agencies learned something from the events, but it does not seem as if the information is getting out to other police agencies.
The most important thing that can come out of the investigation is a better process for dealing with situations like this.SAH
My view is that too many police officers are using tasers as if they are toys.
The problem with this case is not this case alone. This is at least the fourth case in Northern California – all involving people with mental issues, the use of tasers and death. All of the other cases started with parents calling police to help with an agitated child, again with some mental issues. In each case the police arrived, inflamed the situation, used tasers a number of times and the subject died. The police ended up killing the people they were called to help. I am sure each of the specific police agencies learned something from the events, but it does not seem as if the information is getting out to other police agencies.
The most important thing that can come out of the investigation is a better process for dealing with situations like this.SAH
My view is that too many police officers are using tasers as if they are toys.
The problem with this case is not this case alone. This is at least the fourth case in Northern California – all involving people with mental issues, the use of tasers and death. All of the other cases started with parents calling police to help with an agitated child, again with some mental issues. In each case the police arrived, inflamed the situation, used tasers a number of times and the subject died. The police ended up killing the people they were called to help. I am sure each of the specific police agencies learned something from the events, but it does not seem as if the information is getting out to other police agencies.
The most important thing that can come out of the investigation is a better process for dealing with situations like this.SAH
Correction:
The Woodland Police are NOT doing the investigation. The investigation is being handled by external police agencies, including the Yolo County Sheriff and UC Davis police. Please strive to be accurate in your stories. Thank you.
Correction:
The Woodland Police are NOT doing the investigation. The investigation is being handled by external police agencies, including the Yolo County Sheriff and UC Davis police. Please strive to be accurate in your stories. Thank you.
Correction:
The Woodland Police are NOT doing the investigation. The investigation is being handled by external police agencies, including the Yolo County Sheriff and UC Davis police. Please strive to be accurate in your stories. Thank you.
Correction:
The Woodland Police are NOT doing the investigation. The investigation is being handled by external police agencies, including the Yolo County Sheriff and UC Davis police. Please strive to be accurate in your stories. Thank you.
This is the direct quote from Friday’s Sacramento Bee:
“Instead, Woodland police investigators are conducting the investigation, with help from the Sheriff’s Department and the West Sacramento, Davis and UC Davis police departments.”
If there is more accurate information, please pass it on.
This is the direct quote from Friday’s Sacramento Bee:
“Instead, Woodland police investigators are conducting the investigation, with help from the Sheriff’s Department and the West Sacramento, Davis and UC Davis police departments.”
If there is more accurate information, please pass it on.
This is the direct quote from Friday’s Sacramento Bee:
“Instead, Woodland police investigators are conducting the investigation, with help from the Sheriff’s Department and the West Sacramento, Davis and UC Davis police departments.”
If there is more accurate information, please pass it on.
This is the direct quote from Friday’s Sacramento Bee:
“Instead, Woodland police investigators are conducting the investigation, with help from the Sheriff’s Department and the West Sacramento, Davis and UC Davis police departments.”
If there is more accurate information, please pass it on.
In Memphis there was a community policing initiative years ago and the program brought together law enforcement personnel and mental health professionals, consumers, and advocates for the purpose of improving understanding of, and safety and service to, mentally ill individuals and their families.
I’ve read in some studies that the program provided a model for communities planning to develop partnerships between the criminal justice and mental health systems in showing them how to manage crisis calls in an effective, expedient, and sensitive manner.
I remember during the DA race some years ago NAMI addressed these issues at a forum. They suggested some type of training.
I cannot remember the name of the training, but it I’m sure NAMI is a group that would be helpful in a situation like this.
It might be a good idea for all policing agencies in Yolo County to work with those in the mental health profession to establish such training for officers in Yolo County.
My condolences go out to the family.
In Memphis there was a community policing initiative years ago and the program brought together law enforcement personnel and mental health professionals, consumers, and advocates for the purpose of improving understanding of, and safety and service to, mentally ill individuals and their families.
I’ve read in some studies that the program provided a model for communities planning to develop partnerships between the criminal justice and mental health systems in showing them how to manage crisis calls in an effective, expedient, and sensitive manner.
I remember during the DA race some years ago NAMI addressed these issues at a forum. They suggested some type of training.
I cannot remember the name of the training, but it I’m sure NAMI is a group that would be helpful in a situation like this.
It might be a good idea for all policing agencies in Yolo County to work with those in the mental health profession to establish such training for officers in Yolo County.
My condolences go out to the family.
In Memphis there was a community policing initiative years ago and the program brought together law enforcement personnel and mental health professionals, consumers, and advocates for the purpose of improving understanding of, and safety and service to, mentally ill individuals and their families.
I’ve read in some studies that the program provided a model for communities planning to develop partnerships between the criminal justice and mental health systems in showing them how to manage crisis calls in an effective, expedient, and sensitive manner.
I remember during the DA race some years ago NAMI addressed these issues at a forum. They suggested some type of training.
I cannot remember the name of the training, but it I’m sure NAMI is a group that would be helpful in a situation like this.
It might be a good idea for all policing agencies in Yolo County to work with those in the mental health profession to establish such training for officers in Yolo County.
My condolences go out to the family.
In Memphis there was a community policing initiative years ago and the program brought together law enforcement personnel and mental health professionals, consumers, and advocates for the purpose of improving understanding of, and safety and service to, mentally ill individuals and their families.
I’ve read in some studies that the program provided a model for communities planning to develop partnerships between the criminal justice and mental health systems in showing them how to manage crisis calls in an effective, expedient, and sensitive manner.
I remember during the DA race some years ago NAMI addressed these issues at a forum. They suggested some type of training.
I cannot remember the name of the training, but it I’m sure NAMI is a group that would be helpful in a situation like this.
It might be a good idea for all policing agencies in Yolo County to work with those in the mental health profession to establish such training for officers in Yolo County.
My condolences go out to the family.
As I recall Reisig wasn’t familiar with NAMI.
As I recall Reisig wasn’t familiar with NAMI.
As I recall Reisig wasn’t familiar with NAMI.
As I recall Reisig wasn’t familiar with NAMI.
I have never understood why there is still a question as to whether tasering can result in death. A taser uses an electrical charge to disrupt the bodies normal electro-muscular funnction. It produces neuro-muscular incapacitation. It figures that it could also interfer with the normal electrical impulses that control the heart beat. In fact, one study does indicate a connection: In the experiment, pigs were stunned with tasers. All suffered heart rhythm problems and two died. One doctor concluded that even after the shock ends, cardiac effects can be seen.
The Abrahams case is a tragic episode and should never have happened. Perhaps training in dealing with mentally ill or confused subjects might be in order. In this case, the person did not appear to be a threat to anyone, so why not call in a professional or a family member or just talk to him to calm him down instead of resorting to a weapon?
I have never understood why there is still a question as to whether tasering can result in death. A taser uses an electrical charge to disrupt the bodies normal electro-muscular funnction. It produces neuro-muscular incapacitation. It figures that it could also interfer with the normal electrical impulses that control the heart beat. In fact, one study does indicate a connection: In the experiment, pigs were stunned with tasers. All suffered heart rhythm problems and two died. One doctor concluded that even after the shock ends, cardiac effects can be seen.
The Abrahams case is a tragic episode and should never have happened. Perhaps training in dealing with mentally ill or confused subjects might be in order. In this case, the person did not appear to be a threat to anyone, so why not call in a professional or a family member or just talk to him to calm him down instead of resorting to a weapon?
I have never understood why there is still a question as to whether tasering can result in death. A taser uses an electrical charge to disrupt the bodies normal electro-muscular funnction. It produces neuro-muscular incapacitation. It figures that it could also interfer with the normal electrical impulses that control the heart beat. In fact, one study does indicate a connection: In the experiment, pigs were stunned with tasers. All suffered heart rhythm problems and two died. One doctor concluded that even after the shock ends, cardiac effects can be seen.
The Abrahams case is a tragic episode and should never have happened. Perhaps training in dealing with mentally ill or confused subjects might be in order. In this case, the person did not appear to be a threat to anyone, so why not call in a professional or a family member or just talk to him to calm him down instead of resorting to a weapon?
I have never understood why there is still a question as to whether tasering can result in death. A taser uses an electrical charge to disrupt the bodies normal electro-muscular funnction. It produces neuro-muscular incapacitation. It figures that it could also interfer with the normal electrical impulses that control the heart beat. In fact, one study does indicate a connection: In the experiment, pigs were stunned with tasers. All suffered heart rhythm problems and two died. One doctor concluded that even after the shock ends, cardiac effects can be seen.
The Abrahams case is a tragic episode and should never have happened. Perhaps training in dealing with mentally ill or confused subjects might be in order. In this case, the person did not appear to be a threat to anyone, so why not call in a professional or a family member or just talk to him to calm him down instead of resorting to a weapon?
There is an interesting case in Woodland from a few weeks back, wherein a man, who claimed he was responding to the noise of a break in (apparently due a ‘no-knock’ warrant) was tasered. He did not die, but indicated he was going to sue immediately subsequent that fun event.
The officers wrote up a quick report asserting he had actually attacked them first with a deadly weapon.
The weapon? — A Huge Featherduster.
Killer!
Now I have knowledge that a simialr event occurred in Davis where two cops busted into a private residence, held a man down, emptied a canister of “pepper spray” against his face, dragged him off to Sutter ER and then out of the ER when he complained of shooting pain in his left arm.
One of these officers returned to the residence five hours later, took a glass from where it stood, having just been washed, a juice glass; wrote a report calling it a wine glass, and said that the actual victim of an extremely violent, potentially deadly attack, has tried to kill his partner with the thing.
No “chain of custody” ;the house was never “crime site” taped; no forensics done at the get go.
The “wine glass” officer has been reported in the Enterprise as involved in the Buyazan case. (In keeping with Vanguard libel ground rules, etc, I do not name a name…but DPD…you have the e source this, and I will sign and date a statement. I can not provide- it is always missing for some reason when I go to court records- an ‘evidence worthy’ fascimile of that “supplemental report” but the incident does speak to actual DPD methodologies, legal or no…)
There is an interesting case in Woodland from a few weeks back, wherein a man, who claimed he was responding to the noise of a break in (apparently due a ‘no-knock’ warrant) was tasered. He did not die, but indicated he was going to sue immediately subsequent that fun event.
The officers wrote up a quick report asserting he had actually attacked them first with a deadly weapon.
The weapon? — A Huge Featherduster.
Killer!
Now I have knowledge that a simialr event occurred in Davis where two cops busted into a private residence, held a man down, emptied a canister of “pepper spray” against his face, dragged him off to Sutter ER and then out of the ER when he complained of shooting pain in his left arm.
One of these officers returned to the residence five hours later, took a glass from where it stood, having just been washed, a juice glass; wrote a report calling it a wine glass, and said that the actual victim of an extremely violent, potentially deadly attack, has tried to kill his partner with the thing.
No “chain of custody” ;the house was never “crime site” taped; no forensics done at the get go.
The “wine glass” officer has been reported in the Enterprise as involved in the Buyazan case. (In keeping with Vanguard libel ground rules, etc, I do not name a name…but DPD…you have the e source this, and I will sign and date a statement. I can not provide- it is always missing for some reason when I go to court records- an ‘evidence worthy’ fascimile of that “supplemental report” but the incident does speak to actual DPD methodologies, legal or no…)
There is an interesting case in Woodland from a few weeks back, wherein a man, who claimed he was responding to the noise of a break in (apparently due a ‘no-knock’ warrant) was tasered. He did not die, but indicated he was going to sue immediately subsequent that fun event.
The officers wrote up a quick report asserting he had actually attacked them first with a deadly weapon.
The weapon? — A Huge Featherduster.
Killer!
Now I have knowledge that a simialr event occurred in Davis where two cops busted into a private residence, held a man down, emptied a canister of “pepper spray” against his face, dragged him off to Sutter ER and then out of the ER when he complained of shooting pain in his left arm.
One of these officers returned to the residence five hours later, took a glass from where it stood, having just been washed, a juice glass; wrote a report calling it a wine glass, and said that the actual victim of an extremely violent, potentially deadly attack, has tried to kill his partner with the thing.
No “chain of custody” ;the house was never “crime site” taped; no forensics done at the get go.
The “wine glass” officer has been reported in the Enterprise as involved in the Buyazan case. (In keeping with Vanguard libel ground rules, etc, I do not name a name…but DPD…you have the e source this, and I will sign and date a statement. I can not provide- it is always missing for some reason when I go to court records- an ‘evidence worthy’ fascimile of that “supplemental report” but the incident does speak to actual DPD methodologies, legal or no…)
There is an interesting case in Woodland from a few weeks back, wherein a man, who claimed he was responding to the noise of a break in (apparently due a ‘no-knock’ warrant) was tasered. He did not die, but indicated he was going to sue immediately subsequent that fun event.
The officers wrote up a quick report asserting he had actually attacked them first with a deadly weapon.
The weapon? — A Huge Featherduster.
Killer!
Now I have knowledge that a simialr event occurred in Davis where two cops busted into a private residence, held a man down, emptied a canister of “pepper spray” against his face, dragged him off to Sutter ER and then out of the ER when he complained of shooting pain in his left arm.
One of these officers returned to the residence five hours later, took a glass from where it stood, having just been washed, a juice glass; wrote a report calling it a wine glass, and said that the actual victim of an extremely violent, potentially deadly attack, has tried to kill his partner with the thing.
No “chain of custody” ;the house was never “crime site” taped; no forensics done at the get go.
The “wine glass” officer has been reported in the Enterprise as involved in the Buyazan case. (In keeping with Vanguard libel ground rules, etc, I do not name a name…but DPD…you have the e source this, and I will sign and date a statement. I can not provide- it is always missing for some reason when I go to court records- an ‘evidence worthy’ fascimile of that “supplemental report” but the incident does speak to actual DPD methodologies, legal or no…)
There is an interesting case in Woodland from a few weeks back, wherein a man, who claimed he was responding to the noise of a break in (apparently due a ‘no-knock’ warrant) was tasered. He did not die, but indicated he was going to sue immediately subsequent that fun event.
The officers wrote up a quick report asserting he had actually attacked them first with a deadly weapon.
The weapon? — A Huge Featherduster.
Killer!
Now I have knowledge that a simialr event occurred in Davis where two cops busted into a private residence, held a man down, emptied a canister of “pepper spray” against his face, dragged him off to Sutter ER and then out of the ER when he complained of shooting pain in his left arm.
One of these officers returned to the residence five hours later, took a glass from where it stood, having just been washed, a juice glass; wrote a report calling it a wine glass, and said that the actual victim of an extremely violent, potentially deadly attack, has tried to kill his partner with the thing.
No “chain of custody” ;the house was never “crime site” taped; no forensics done at the get go.
The “wine glass” officer has been reported in the Enterprise as involved in the Buyazan case. (In keeping with Vanguard libel ground rules, etc, I do not name a name…but DPD…you have the e source this, and I will sign and date a statement. I can not provide- it is always missing for some reason when I go to court records- an ‘evidence worthy’ fascimile of that “supplemental report” but the incident does speak to actual DPD methodologies, legal or no…)
There is an interesting case in Woodland from a few weeks back, wherein a man, who claimed he was responding to the noise of a break in (apparently due a ‘no-knock’ warrant) was tasered. He did not die, but indicated he was going to sue immediately subsequent that fun event.
The officers wrote up a quick report asserting he had actually attacked them first with a deadly weapon.
The weapon? — A Huge Featherduster.
Killer!
Now I have knowledge that a simialr event occurred in Davis where two cops busted into a private residence, held a man down, emptied a canister of “pepper spray” against his face, dragged him off to Sutter ER and then out of the ER when he complained of shooting pain in his left arm.
One of these officers returned to the residence five hours later, took a glass from where it stood, having just been washed, a juice glass; wrote a report calling it a wine glass, and said that the actual victim of an extremely violent, potentially deadly attack, has tried to kill his partner with the thing.
No “chain of custody” ;the house was never “crime site” taped; no forensics done at the get go.
The “wine glass” officer has been reported in the Enterprise as involved in the Buyazan case. (In keeping with Vanguard libel ground rules, etc, I do not name a name…but DPD…you have the e source this, and I will sign and date a statement. I can not provide- it is always missing for some reason when I go to court records- an ‘evidence worthy’ fascimile of that “supplemental report” but the incident does speak to actual DPD methodologies, legal or no…)
There is an interesting case in Woodland from a few weeks back, wherein a man, who claimed he was responding to the noise of a break in (apparently due a ‘no-knock’ warrant) was tasered. He did not die, but indicated he was going to sue immediately subsequent that fun event.
The officers wrote up a quick report asserting he had actually attacked them first with a deadly weapon.
The weapon? — A Huge Featherduster.
Killer!
Now I have knowledge that a simialr event occurred in Davis where two cops busted into a private residence, held a man down, emptied a canister of “pepper spray” against his face, dragged him off to Sutter ER and then out of the ER when he complained of shooting pain in his left arm.
One of these officers returned to the residence five hours later, took a glass from where it stood, having just been washed, a juice glass; wrote a report calling it a wine glass, and said that the actual victim of an extremely violent, potentially deadly attack, has tried to kill his partner with the thing.
No “chain of custody” ;the house was never “crime site” taped; no forensics done at the get go.
The “wine glass” officer has been reported in the Enterprise as involved in the Buyazan case. (In keeping with Vanguard libel ground rules, etc, I do not name a name…but DPD…you have the e source this, and I will sign and date a statement. I can not provide- it is always missing for some reason when I go to court records- an ‘evidence worthy’ fascimile of that “supplemental report” but the incident does speak to actual DPD methodologies, legal or no…)
There is an interesting case in Woodland from a few weeks back, wherein a man, who claimed he was responding to the noise of a break in (apparently due a ‘no-knock’ warrant) was tasered. He did not die, but indicated he was going to sue immediately subsequent that fun event.
The officers wrote up a quick report asserting he had actually attacked them first with a deadly weapon.
The weapon? — A Huge Featherduster.
Killer!
Now I have knowledge that a simialr event occurred in Davis where two cops busted into a private residence, held a man down, emptied a canister of “pepper spray” against his face, dragged him off to Sutter ER and then out of the ER when he complained of shooting pain in his left arm.
One of these officers returned to the residence five hours later, took a glass from where it stood, having just been washed, a juice glass; wrote a report calling it a wine glass, and said that the actual victim of an extremely violent, potentially deadly attack, has tried to kill his partner with the thing.
No “chain of custody” ;the house was never “crime site” taped; no forensics done at the get go.
The “wine glass” officer has been reported in the Enterprise as involved in the Buyazan case. (In keeping with Vanguard libel ground rules, etc, I do not name a name…but DPD…you have the e source this, and I will sign and date a statement. I can not provide- it is always missing for some reason when I go to court records- an ‘evidence worthy’ fascimile of that “supplemental report” but the incident does speak to actual DPD methodologies, legal or no…)
One tazing is supposed to incapacitate a person. Apparently, both officers shot him at the same time, giving him a double dose. This must have been incredibly painful. When the man tried to flee from his attackers, they chased him and beat him and tazed him two more times. He died.
If you take the fact that his attackers were police officers out of the picture, it sounds like a gang attacked this man and in the course of beating him, he died.
Putting the fact that the attackers were police officers back into the picture, I’m wondering what was the probable cause to order a police stop in the first place. The stop should have been consensual as he was not committing any crime or suspected of committing any crime.
One tazing is supposed to incapacitate a person. Apparently, both officers shot him at the same time, giving him a double dose. This must have been incredibly painful. When the man tried to flee from his attackers, they chased him and beat him and tazed him two more times. He died.
If you take the fact that his attackers were police officers out of the picture, it sounds like a gang attacked this man and in the course of beating him, he died.
Putting the fact that the attackers were police officers back into the picture, I’m wondering what was the probable cause to order a police stop in the first place. The stop should have been consensual as he was not committing any crime or suspected of committing any crime.
One tazing is supposed to incapacitate a person. Apparently, both officers shot him at the same time, giving him a double dose. This must have been incredibly painful. When the man tried to flee from his attackers, they chased him and beat him and tazed him two more times. He died.
If you take the fact that his attackers were police officers out of the picture, it sounds like a gang attacked this man and in the course of beating him, he died.
Putting the fact that the attackers were police officers back into the picture, I’m wondering what was the probable cause to order a police stop in the first place. The stop should have been consensual as he was not committing any crime or suspected of committing any crime.
One tazing is supposed to incapacitate a person. Apparently, both officers shot him at the same time, giving him a double dose. This must have been incredibly painful. When the man tried to flee from his attackers, they chased him and beat him and tazed him two more times. He died.
If you take the fact that his attackers were police officers out of the picture, it sounds like a gang attacked this man and in the course of beating him, he died.
Putting the fact that the attackers were police officers back into the picture, I’m wondering what was the probable cause to order a police stop in the first place. The stop should have been consensual as he was not committing any crime or suspected of committing any crime.
I have read articles about overweight folks dying of suffocation when they are handcuffed and placed face down on the ground or floor. Might that have been a factor in the death of Ricardo Abrahams, who looked like a pretty big guy? And might training in how to safely restrain large folks be a good thing along with training in how to approach mental health patients?
I have read articles about overweight folks dying of suffocation when they are handcuffed and placed face down on the ground or floor. Might that have been a factor in the death of Ricardo Abrahams, who looked like a pretty big guy? And might training in how to safely restrain large folks be a good thing along with training in how to approach mental health patients?
I have read articles about overweight folks dying of suffocation when they are handcuffed and placed face down on the ground or floor. Might that have been a factor in the death of Ricardo Abrahams, who looked like a pretty big guy? And might training in how to safely restrain large folks be a good thing along with training in how to approach mental health patients?
I have read articles about overweight folks dying of suffocation when they are handcuffed and placed face down on the ground or floor. Might that have been a factor in the death of Ricardo Abrahams, who looked like a pretty big guy? And might training in how to safely restrain large folks be a good thing along with training in how to approach mental health patients?
I have read articles about overweight folks dying of suffocation when they are handcuffed and placed face down on the ground or floor. Might that have been a factor in the death of Ricardo Abrahams, who looked like a pretty big guy? And might training in how to safely restrain large folks be a good thing along with training in how to approach mental health patients?
I have read articles about overweight folks dying of suffocation when they are handcuffed and placed face down on the ground or floor. Might that have been a factor in the death of Ricardo Abrahams, who looked like a pretty big guy? And might training in how to safely restrain large folks be a good thing along with training in how to approach mental health patients?
I have read articles about overweight folks dying of suffocation when they are handcuffed and placed face down on the ground or floor. Might that have been a factor in the death of Ricardo Abrahams, who looked like a pretty big guy? And might training in how to safely restrain large folks be a good thing along with training in how to approach mental health patients?
I have read articles about overweight folks dying of suffocation when they are handcuffed and placed face down on the ground or floor. Might that have been a factor in the death of Ricardo Abrahams, who looked like a pretty big guy? And might training in how to safely restrain large folks be a good thing along with training in how to approach mental health patients?
Wasn’t Mrs. Greenwald weilding a taser in her photo op in front of the Davis Police Department?
Wasn’t Mrs. Greenwald weilding a taser in her photo op in front of the Davis Police Department?
Wasn’t Mrs. Greenwald weilding a taser in her photo op in front of the Davis Police Department?
Wasn’t Mrs. Greenwald weilding a taser in her photo op in front of the Davis Police Department?
“The first point to note is that the individual was mentally ill. Automatically there should have been an expectation that the individual might not be responsive to some commands and instructions.”
Interesting statement. Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? The police have instituted mind reading into their arsenal as well.
Police do not know who they are confronting. They have to deal with the threat when it happens without the ability of your monday morning quarterbacking.
“The first point to note is that the individual was mentally ill. Automatically there should have been an expectation that the individual might not be responsive to some commands and instructions.”
Interesting statement. Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? The police have instituted mind reading into their arsenal as well.
Police do not know who they are confronting. They have to deal with the threat when it happens without the ability of your monday morning quarterbacking.
“The first point to note is that the individual was mentally ill. Automatically there should have been an expectation that the individual might not be responsive to some commands and instructions.”
Interesting statement. Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? The police have instituted mind reading into their arsenal as well.
Police do not know who they are confronting. They have to deal with the threat when it happens without the ability of your monday morning quarterbacking.
“The first point to note is that the individual was mentally ill. Automatically there should have been an expectation that the individual might not be responsive to some commands and instructions.”
Interesting statement. Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? The police have instituted mind reading into their arsenal as well.
Police do not know who they are confronting. They have to deal with the threat when it happens without the ability of your monday morning quarterbacking.
To anon:
“Interesting statement. Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? The police have instituted mind reading into their arsenal as well.”
Well if you read the accounts, you would realize that the information about the individual was transmitted during the call by the facility to the police. So yes they should have known.
But let us suppose that they did not… isn’t part of good police work attempting to understand the nature of the scenario. The way you treat an angry person is very different from the way you would treat someone on drugs and very different from the way that you would treat someone who is mentally ill. That is part of training.
Under normal conditions, you could suppose the police might not have time to make some of those determinations, but it was laid out for them in the call for service, no excuse here for failing to understand what they were dealing with.
To anon:
“Interesting statement. Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? The police have instituted mind reading into their arsenal as well.”
Well if you read the accounts, you would realize that the information about the individual was transmitted during the call by the facility to the police. So yes they should have known.
But let us suppose that they did not… isn’t part of good police work attempting to understand the nature of the scenario. The way you treat an angry person is very different from the way you would treat someone on drugs and very different from the way that you would treat someone who is mentally ill. That is part of training.
Under normal conditions, you could suppose the police might not have time to make some of those determinations, but it was laid out for them in the call for service, no excuse here for failing to understand what they were dealing with.
To anon:
“Interesting statement. Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? The police have instituted mind reading into their arsenal as well.”
Well if you read the accounts, you would realize that the information about the individual was transmitted during the call by the facility to the police. So yes they should have known.
But let us suppose that they did not… isn’t part of good police work attempting to understand the nature of the scenario. The way you treat an angry person is very different from the way you would treat someone on drugs and very different from the way that you would treat someone who is mentally ill. That is part of training.
Under normal conditions, you could suppose the police might not have time to make some of those determinations, but it was laid out for them in the call for service, no excuse here for failing to understand what they were dealing with.
To anon:
“Interesting statement. Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? The police have instituted mind reading into their arsenal as well.”
Well if you read the accounts, you would realize that the information about the individual was transmitted during the call by the facility to the police. So yes they should have known.
But let us suppose that they did not… isn’t part of good police work attempting to understand the nature of the scenario. The way you treat an angry person is very different from the way you would treat someone on drugs and very different from the way that you would treat someone who is mentally ill. That is part of training.
Under normal conditions, you could suppose the police might not have time to make some of those determinations, but it was laid out for them in the call for service, no excuse here for failing to understand what they were dealing with.
Robin: No she was not.
Robin: No she was not.
Robin: No she was not.
Robin: No she was not.
“Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? “
Good point, although the Safe Harbor Crisis Home did call the Police to ask for help with the victim. They called and let them know the victim left in an agitated state. A question your comment raises – was the situation communicated to the officers and/or were they listening? I assume much of this came about due to a failure of communication.
If the process was working, they should have known Mr. Abrahams had some mental issues and should have been prepared for that.SAH
“Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? “
Good point, although the Safe Harbor Crisis Home did call the Police to ask for help with the victim. They called and let them know the victim left in an agitated state. A question your comment raises – was the situation communicated to the officers and/or were they listening? I assume much of this came about due to a failure of communication.
If the process was working, they should have known Mr. Abrahams had some mental issues and should have been prepared for that.SAH
“Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? “
Good point, although the Safe Harbor Crisis Home did call the Police to ask for help with the victim. They called and let them know the victim left in an agitated state. A question your comment raises – was the situation communicated to the officers and/or were they listening? I assume much of this came about due to a failure of communication.
If the process was working, they should have known Mr. Abrahams had some mental issues and should have been prepared for that.SAH
“Was he wearing a sign that said he was mentally ill? Automatically huh? “
Good point, although the Safe Harbor Crisis Home did call the Police to ask for help with the victim. They called and let them know the victim left in an agitated state. A question your comment raises – was the situation communicated to the officers and/or were they listening? I assume much of this came about due to a failure of communication.
If the process was working, they should have known Mr. Abrahams had some mental issues and should have been prepared for that.SAH
“Police do not know who they are confronting. They have to deal with the threat when it happens without the ability of your monday morning quarterbacking.”
Actually, the police were called by either mental health services or the hospital to go find the mentally ill man, who walked off the premises. Law enforcement did know the man was mentally ill.
One problem with tasering is that if the “perp” is hit, and then hit again with a taser, s/he will often not comply because disorientation and pain occurs – so one’s instinct is to run away from the pain. To run is to “not comply”, which can bring on further tasering by law enforcement. (This is why so many who have children who are mentally ill are scared to death of law enforcement.)
IMHO, the police need to have specific protocols for when tasering should be used, and it seems clear it should be used sparingly. It is not necessarily a non-lethal method of bringing an obstreperous person under control.
That being said, it also sounds like some sort of nationwide study needs to be done as to the dangers of tasering, and under what conditions it is appropriate to use them.
Clearly, the NAMI folks should push for police training. But it would be helpful for us to have more facts before making any judgments in this specific case. I really can’t say if this was overkill (pardon the pun) or not, but it certainly requires an independent investigation.
I am waiting with bated breath to see what the autopsy shows was the cause of death. My guess is it will show no definitive cause – a euphamism for a heart attack. (I don’t have the medical expertise to know if a heart attack can be detected after death.)
What all of us really want to know was the man in question so dangerous that a tasering was the only way to bring him under control, short of shooting him with a bullet??? Or was there a less dangerous way to have subdued him???
Another question I have is how many officers were on the scene to subdue this man? Remember Rodney King? Twenty or more officers stood around, as a few roughed King up. Clearly that many officers could have subdued Rodney King, without resorting to beating the living crap out of him. We all know it, and the civil courts said so too if I remember rightly, even though the officers managed to get out from under criminal charges. (No wonder – the venue was loaded with friends and family of law enforcement.)
“Police do not know who they are confronting. They have to deal with the threat when it happens without the ability of your monday morning quarterbacking.”
Actually, the police were called by either mental health services or the hospital to go find the mentally ill man, who walked off the premises. Law enforcement did know the man was mentally ill.
One problem with tasering is that if the “perp” is hit, and then hit again with a taser, s/he will often not comply because disorientation and pain occurs – so one’s instinct is to run away from the pain. To run is to “not comply”, which can bring on further tasering by law enforcement. (This is why so many who have children who are mentally ill are scared to death of law enforcement.)
IMHO, the police need to have specific protocols for when tasering should be used, and it seems clear it should be used sparingly. It is not necessarily a non-lethal method of bringing an obstreperous person under control.
That being said, it also sounds like some sort of nationwide study needs to be done as to the dangers of tasering, and under what conditions it is appropriate to use them.
Clearly, the NAMI folks should push for police training. But it would be helpful for us to have more facts before making any judgments in this specific case. I really can’t say if this was overkill (pardon the pun) or not, but it certainly requires an independent investigation.
I am waiting with bated breath to see what the autopsy shows was the cause of death. My guess is it will show no definitive cause – a euphamism for a heart attack. (I don’t have the medical expertise to know if a heart attack can be detected after death.)
What all of us really want to know was the man in question so dangerous that a tasering was the only way to bring him under control, short of shooting him with a bullet??? Or was there a less dangerous way to have subdued him???
Another question I have is how many officers were on the scene to subdue this man? Remember Rodney King? Twenty or more officers stood around, as a few roughed King up. Clearly that many officers could have subdued Rodney King, without resorting to beating the living crap out of him. We all know it, and the civil courts said so too if I remember rightly, even though the officers managed to get out from under criminal charges. (No wonder – the venue was loaded with friends and family of law enforcement.)
“Police do not know who they are confronting. They have to deal with the threat when it happens without the ability of your monday morning quarterbacking.”
Actually, the police were called by either mental health services or the hospital to go find the mentally ill man, who walked off the premises. Law enforcement did know the man was mentally ill.
One problem with tasering is that if the “perp” is hit, and then hit again with a taser, s/he will often not comply because disorientation and pain occurs – so one’s instinct is to run away from the pain. To run is to “not comply”, which can bring on further tasering by law enforcement. (This is why so many who have children who are mentally ill are scared to death of law enforcement.)
IMHO, the police need to have specific protocols for when tasering should be used, and it seems clear it should be used sparingly. It is not necessarily a non-lethal method of bringing an obstreperous person under control.
That being said, it also sounds like some sort of nationwide study needs to be done as to the dangers of tasering, and under what conditions it is appropriate to use them.
Clearly, the NAMI folks should push for police training. But it would be helpful for us to have more facts before making any judgments in this specific case. I really can’t say if this was overkill (pardon the pun) or not, but it certainly requires an independent investigation.
I am waiting with bated breath to see what the autopsy shows was the cause of death. My guess is it will show no definitive cause – a euphamism for a heart attack. (I don’t have the medical expertise to know if a heart attack can be detected after death.)
What all of us really want to know was the man in question so dangerous that a tasering was the only way to bring him under control, short of shooting him with a bullet??? Or was there a less dangerous way to have subdued him???
Another question I have is how many officers were on the scene to subdue this man? Remember Rodney King? Twenty or more officers stood around, as a few roughed King up. Clearly that many officers could have subdued Rodney King, without resorting to beating the living crap out of him. We all know it, and the civil courts said so too if I remember rightly, even though the officers managed to get out from under criminal charges. (No wonder – the venue was loaded with friends and family of law enforcement.)
“Police do not know who they are confronting. They have to deal with the threat when it happens without the ability of your monday morning quarterbacking.”
Actually, the police were called by either mental health services or the hospital to go find the mentally ill man, who walked off the premises. Law enforcement did know the man was mentally ill.
One problem with tasering is that if the “perp” is hit, and then hit again with a taser, s/he will often not comply because disorientation and pain occurs – so one’s instinct is to run away from the pain. To run is to “not comply”, which can bring on further tasering by law enforcement. (This is why so many who have children who are mentally ill are scared to death of law enforcement.)
IMHO, the police need to have specific protocols for when tasering should be used, and it seems clear it should be used sparingly. It is not necessarily a non-lethal method of bringing an obstreperous person under control.
That being said, it also sounds like some sort of nationwide study needs to be done as to the dangers of tasering, and under what conditions it is appropriate to use them.
Clearly, the NAMI folks should push for police training. But it would be helpful for us to have more facts before making any judgments in this specific case. I really can’t say if this was overkill (pardon the pun) or not, but it certainly requires an independent investigation.
I am waiting with bated breath to see what the autopsy shows was the cause of death. My guess is it will show no definitive cause – a euphamism for a heart attack. (I don’t have the medical expertise to know if a heart attack can be detected after death.)
What all of us really want to know was the man in question so dangerous that a tasering was the only way to bring him under control, short of shooting him with a bullet??? Or was there a less dangerous way to have subdued him???
Another question I have is how many officers were on the scene to subdue this man? Remember Rodney King? Twenty or more officers stood around, as a few roughed King up. Clearly that many officers could have subdued Rodney King, without resorting to beating the living crap out of him. We all know it, and the civil courts said so too if I remember rightly, even though the officers managed to get out from under criminal charges. (No wonder – the venue was loaded with friends and family of law enforcement.)
To: ACTUALLY SAID, DPD, AND THE QUOTER OF THE WINE GLASS CAPER AND OTHERS COMMENTING HERE,
DPD plays both sides of the fence here. Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD. Do mental patients become harmful to others and hurt or murder others? ALL the time.
Did the alleged victim in this case understand orders or not? DPD doesn’t know and neither does anyone else making comments here.
The wine glass scenario. How much Pepper Spray time is in a “Cannister”of Pepper Spray. Were you there? You are just speculating about a situation because you have a bias regarding any authority. You don’t like authority and prefer to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.
As far as Rodney King goes a minimum amount of force should have been used. On the other hand Ole Rodney has made the papers quite often for repeated criminal activity and in general is a lowlife. However he should not have beaten like that all at once.
Do all of you have nothing better to do? Why don’t all of you get together and go mentor the school dropouts in Central Park. That might prevent them from becoming the criminal element like the Parolee’s and Probationer’s that hang out in Central Park and other parts of Davis
To: ACTUALLY SAID, DPD, AND THE QUOTER OF THE WINE GLASS CAPER AND OTHERS COMMENTING HERE,
DPD plays both sides of the fence here. Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD. Do mental patients become harmful to others and hurt or murder others? ALL the time.
Did the alleged victim in this case understand orders or not? DPD doesn’t know and neither does anyone else making comments here.
The wine glass scenario. How much Pepper Spray time is in a “Cannister”of Pepper Spray. Were you there? You are just speculating about a situation because you have a bias regarding any authority. You don’t like authority and prefer to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.
As far as Rodney King goes a minimum amount of force should have been used. On the other hand Ole Rodney has made the papers quite often for repeated criminal activity and in general is a lowlife. However he should not have beaten like that all at once.
Do all of you have nothing better to do? Why don’t all of you get together and go mentor the school dropouts in Central Park. That might prevent them from becoming the criminal element like the Parolee’s and Probationer’s that hang out in Central Park and other parts of Davis
To: ACTUALLY SAID, DPD, AND THE QUOTER OF THE WINE GLASS CAPER AND OTHERS COMMENTING HERE,
DPD plays both sides of the fence here. Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD. Do mental patients become harmful to others and hurt or murder others? ALL the time.
Did the alleged victim in this case understand orders or not? DPD doesn’t know and neither does anyone else making comments here.
The wine glass scenario. How much Pepper Spray time is in a “Cannister”of Pepper Spray. Were you there? You are just speculating about a situation because you have a bias regarding any authority. You don’t like authority and prefer to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.
As far as Rodney King goes a minimum amount of force should have been used. On the other hand Ole Rodney has made the papers quite often for repeated criminal activity and in general is a lowlife. However he should not have beaten like that all at once.
Do all of you have nothing better to do? Why don’t all of you get together and go mentor the school dropouts in Central Park. That might prevent them from becoming the criminal element like the Parolee’s and Probationer’s that hang out in Central Park and other parts of Davis
To: ACTUALLY SAID, DPD, AND THE QUOTER OF THE WINE GLASS CAPER AND OTHERS COMMENTING HERE,
DPD plays both sides of the fence here. Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD. Do mental patients become harmful to others and hurt or murder others? ALL the time.
Did the alleged victim in this case understand orders or not? DPD doesn’t know and neither does anyone else making comments here.
The wine glass scenario. How much Pepper Spray time is in a “Cannister”of Pepper Spray. Were you there? You are just speculating about a situation because you have a bias regarding any authority. You don’t like authority and prefer to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.
As far as Rodney King goes a minimum amount of force should have been used. On the other hand Ole Rodney has made the papers quite often for repeated criminal activity and in general is a lowlife. However he should not have beaten like that all at once.
Do all of you have nothing better to do? Why don’t all of you get together and go mentor the school dropouts in Central Park. That might prevent them from becoming the criminal element like the Parolee’s and Probationer’s that hang out in Central Park and other parts of Davis
tO aNON of 6/5/08 at 9:51 a.m.
Your statements are far out. In fact they are so far out they could be classified as genuine B.S.
tO aNON of 6/5/08 at 9:51 a.m.
Your statements are far out. In fact they are so far out they could be classified as genuine B.S.
tO aNON of 6/5/08 at 9:51 a.m.
Your statements are far out. In fact they are so far out they could be classified as genuine B.S.
tO aNON of 6/5/08 at 9:51 a.m.
Your statements are far out. In fact they are so far out they could be classified as genuine B.S.
“Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD”
Why not ask an objective source – like anyone at the DA’s office?
“Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD”
Why not ask an objective source – like anyone at the DA’s office?
“Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD”
Why not ask an objective source – like anyone at the DA’s office?
“Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD”
Why not ask an objective source – like anyone at the DA’s office?
election over — back to picking on police departments with (admittedly) no information
election over — back to picking on police departments with (admittedly) no information
election over — back to picking on police departments with (admittedly) no information
election over — back to picking on police departments with (admittedly) no information
“back to picking on police departments with (admittedly) no information”
You have to weigh the pain experienced on both sides of this.
On the one hand the Woodland Police are being scorned for being involved in the death of a person. The fact is the police officers involved probably will not face any charges, even if they deserve them. So, in the end, the only pain they face will be public scorn.
On the other hand the parents of Mr. Abrahams had to go through a funeral and bury their child.
Tell me – who is suffering more?
The Police should spend less effort trying to defend a bad event and spend more time improving the process so it does not happen again! If it takes scorn to get that done then so be it! SAH
“back to picking on police departments with (admittedly) no information”
You have to weigh the pain experienced on both sides of this.
On the one hand the Woodland Police are being scorned for being involved in the death of a person. The fact is the police officers involved probably will not face any charges, even if they deserve them. So, in the end, the only pain they face will be public scorn.
On the other hand the parents of Mr. Abrahams had to go through a funeral and bury their child.
Tell me – who is suffering more?
The Police should spend less effort trying to defend a bad event and spend more time improving the process so it does not happen again! If it takes scorn to get that done then so be it! SAH
“back to picking on police departments with (admittedly) no information”
You have to weigh the pain experienced on both sides of this.
On the one hand the Woodland Police are being scorned for being involved in the death of a person. The fact is the police officers involved probably will not face any charges, even if they deserve them. So, in the end, the only pain they face will be public scorn.
On the other hand the parents of Mr. Abrahams had to go through a funeral and bury their child.
Tell me – who is suffering more?
The Police should spend less effort trying to defend a bad event and spend more time improving the process so it does not happen again! If it takes scorn to get that done then so be it! SAH
“back to picking on police departments with (admittedly) no information”
You have to weigh the pain experienced on both sides of this.
On the one hand the Woodland Police are being scorned for being involved in the death of a person. The fact is the police officers involved probably will not face any charges, even if they deserve them. So, in the end, the only pain they face will be public scorn.
On the other hand the parents of Mr. Abrahams had to go through a funeral and bury their child.
Tell me – who is suffering more?
The Police should spend less effort trying to defend a bad event and spend more time improving the process so it does not happen again! If it takes scorn to get that done then so be it! SAH
it is beyond clear by now that tasers are not a humane, effective or non-lethal method of subduing people. like a gun, they give the bearer power over the unarmed, and that power over other people is dangerous. over and over again, the people who get tased are rarely if ever armed, and the explanation is nearly always “resisting arrest.”
there really needs to be an in depth review of best practices when it comes to using electric shocks on people. increasingly it is not being used a sa method of defense against an actually dangerous suspect, but rather as a method of discipline, which is not what the police ought to be tasked with.
the more i see about the functioning of our justice system, the more i am convinced that the british are right to have cops armed only with billy clubs. too much power is as dangerous thing, even (especially) for those who initially mean well.
it is beyond clear by now that tasers are not a humane, effective or non-lethal method of subduing people. like a gun, they give the bearer power over the unarmed, and that power over other people is dangerous. over and over again, the people who get tased are rarely if ever armed, and the explanation is nearly always “resisting arrest.”
there really needs to be an in depth review of best practices when it comes to using electric shocks on people. increasingly it is not being used a sa method of defense against an actually dangerous suspect, but rather as a method of discipline, which is not what the police ought to be tasked with.
the more i see about the functioning of our justice system, the more i am convinced that the british are right to have cops armed only with billy clubs. too much power is as dangerous thing, even (especially) for those who initially mean well.
it is beyond clear by now that tasers are not a humane, effective or non-lethal method of subduing people. like a gun, they give the bearer power over the unarmed, and that power over other people is dangerous. over and over again, the people who get tased are rarely if ever armed, and the explanation is nearly always “resisting arrest.”
there really needs to be an in depth review of best practices when it comes to using electric shocks on people. increasingly it is not being used a sa method of defense against an actually dangerous suspect, but rather as a method of discipline, which is not what the police ought to be tasked with.
the more i see about the functioning of our justice system, the more i am convinced that the british are right to have cops armed only with billy clubs. too much power is as dangerous thing, even (especially) for those who initially mean well.
it is beyond clear by now that tasers are not a humane, effective or non-lethal method of subduing people. like a gun, they give the bearer power over the unarmed, and that power over other people is dangerous. over and over again, the people who get tased are rarely if ever armed, and the explanation is nearly always “resisting arrest.”
there really needs to be an in depth review of best practices when it comes to using electric shocks on people. increasingly it is not being used a sa method of defense against an actually dangerous suspect, but rather as a method of discipline, which is not what the police ought to be tasked with.
the more i see about the functioning of our justice system, the more i am convinced that the british are right to have cops armed only with billy clubs. too much power is as dangerous thing, even (especially) for those who initially mean well.
To: Anon and Wu Ming,
Who is suffering more? Well it ain’t the victim anymore. And as far as that goes we’ll never know if he would have harmed or murdered someone else’s child. May he rest in peace.
Wu Ming is cluless on this one. When the cops in the U.S. only have, “Billy Clubs”,( they are actually Batons for the protection of the Public and secondarily the Officer), there will be a lot of dead cops and civilians. Why you ask? BECAUSE THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT HAS FIREARMS YOU IDIOT.
To: Anon and Wu Ming,
Who is suffering more? Well it ain’t the victim anymore. And as far as that goes we’ll never know if he would have harmed or murdered someone else’s child. May he rest in peace.
Wu Ming is cluless on this one. When the cops in the U.S. only have, “Billy Clubs”,( they are actually Batons for the protection of the Public and secondarily the Officer), there will be a lot of dead cops and civilians. Why you ask? BECAUSE THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT HAS FIREARMS YOU IDIOT.
To: Anon and Wu Ming,
Who is suffering more? Well it ain’t the victim anymore. And as far as that goes we’ll never know if he would have harmed or murdered someone else’s child. May he rest in peace.
Wu Ming is cluless on this one. When the cops in the U.S. only have, “Billy Clubs”,( they are actually Batons for the protection of the Public and secondarily the Officer), there will be a lot of dead cops and civilians. Why you ask? BECAUSE THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT HAS FIREARMS YOU IDIOT.
To: Anon and Wu Ming,
Who is suffering more? Well it ain’t the victim anymore. And as far as that goes we’ll never know if he would have harmed or murdered someone else’s child. May he rest in peace.
Wu Ming is cluless on this one. When the cops in the U.S. only have, “Billy Clubs”,( they are actually Batons for the protection of the Public and secondarily the Officer), there will be a lot of dead cops and civilians. Why you ask? BECAUSE THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT HAS FIREARMS YOU IDIOT.
Allow me to post this memory as it changed my life forever…
Just over an hour from now on June 5th 1968, 40 years ago Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated at the Ambassador Hotel in LA. I had been on Robert Kennedy’s security team every time he came to LA and had been with him at many activities all that weekend, especially a huge rally at the Hollywood Bowl. It all seemed so exciting and so much seemed possible. Perhaps we could stop a war. I asked to be excused working at the Victory Party at the Ambassador Hotel that Tuesday primary night. I felt assured of his victory but not getting an A in my journalism class the next morning at Santa Monica College. With an A I would be guaranteed entry into UCLA.
I was called by a friend on the security team just after midnight. They were crying and could hardly get out the words that said it all, Kennedy has been shot.
The next day I stood outside the City of Angels hospital hoping for the better news that never came. America lost so much hope and possibility that year with Martin Luther King then Robert Kennedy.
For those of us who heard on TV Ted Kennedy speak at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City we cannot forget the words he used to describe his brother,
“My brother need not be idealized or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life, to be remembered simply as a good and decent man, who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it.”
Let us all continue to live up to those words to describe Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and wish his brother Ted as many good years as are possible.
A thank you to all who make our community better each and every day!
Allow me to post this memory as it changed my life forever…
Just over an hour from now on June 5th 1968, 40 years ago Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated at the Ambassador Hotel in LA. I had been on Robert Kennedy’s security team every time he came to LA and had been with him at many activities all that weekend, especially a huge rally at the Hollywood Bowl. It all seemed so exciting and so much seemed possible. Perhaps we could stop a war. I asked to be excused working at the Victory Party at the Ambassador Hotel that Tuesday primary night. I felt assured of his victory but not getting an A in my journalism class the next morning at Santa Monica College. With an A I would be guaranteed entry into UCLA.
I was called by a friend on the security team just after midnight. They were crying and could hardly get out the words that said it all, Kennedy has been shot.
The next day I stood outside the City of Angels hospital hoping for the better news that never came. America lost so much hope and possibility that year with Martin Luther King then Robert Kennedy.
For those of us who heard on TV Ted Kennedy speak at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City we cannot forget the words he used to describe his brother,
“My brother need not be idealized or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life, to be remembered simply as a good and decent man, who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it.”
Let us all continue to live up to those words to describe Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and wish his brother Ted as many good years as are possible.
A thank you to all who make our community better each and every day!
Allow me to post this memory as it changed my life forever…
Just over an hour from now on June 5th 1968, 40 years ago Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated at the Ambassador Hotel in LA. I had been on Robert Kennedy’s security team every time he came to LA and had been with him at many activities all that weekend, especially a huge rally at the Hollywood Bowl. It all seemed so exciting and so much seemed possible. Perhaps we could stop a war. I asked to be excused working at the Victory Party at the Ambassador Hotel that Tuesday primary night. I felt assured of his victory but not getting an A in my journalism class the next morning at Santa Monica College. With an A I would be guaranteed entry into UCLA.
I was called by a friend on the security team just after midnight. They were crying and could hardly get out the words that said it all, Kennedy has been shot.
The next day I stood outside the City of Angels hospital hoping for the better news that never came. America lost so much hope and possibility that year with Martin Luther King then Robert Kennedy.
For those of us who heard on TV Ted Kennedy speak at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City we cannot forget the words he used to describe his brother,
“My brother need not be idealized or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life, to be remembered simply as a good and decent man, who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it.”
Let us all continue to live up to those words to describe Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and wish his brother Ted as many good years as are possible.
A thank you to all who make our community better each and every day!
Allow me to post this memory as it changed my life forever…
Just over an hour from now on June 5th 1968, 40 years ago Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated at the Ambassador Hotel in LA. I had been on Robert Kennedy’s security team every time he came to LA and had been with him at many activities all that weekend, especially a huge rally at the Hollywood Bowl. It all seemed so exciting and so much seemed possible. Perhaps we could stop a war. I asked to be excused working at the Victory Party at the Ambassador Hotel that Tuesday primary night. I felt assured of his victory but not getting an A in my journalism class the next morning at Santa Monica College. With an A I would be guaranteed entry into UCLA.
I was called by a friend on the security team just after midnight. They were crying and could hardly get out the words that said it all, Kennedy has been shot.
The next day I stood outside the City of Angels hospital hoping for the better news that never came. America lost so much hope and possibility that year with Martin Luther King then Robert Kennedy.
For those of us who heard on TV Ted Kennedy speak at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York City we cannot forget the words he used to describe his brother,
“My brother need not be idealized or enlarged in death beyond what he was in life, to be remembered simply as a good and decent man, who saw wrong and tried to right it, saw suffering and tried to heal it, saw war and tried to stop it.”
Let us all continue to live up to those words to describe Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and wish his brother Ted as many good years as are possible.
A thank you to all who make our community better each and every day!
To; Davis J. Thompson,
Thank you for the GREAT memories. Robert Kennedy was a Hero. I wish Ted Kennedy all the best. Although I still have a hard time with CHAPPAQUIDICK. Unfortunately Ted killed that young lady and is now going to pay for it. All accounts are due, in the end….
To; Davis J. Thompson,
Thank you for the GREAT memories. Robert Kennedy was a Hero. I wish Ted Kennedy all the best. Although I still have a hard time with CHAPPAQUIDICK. Unfortunately Ted killed that young lady and is now going to pay for it. All accounts are due, in the end….
To; Davis J. Thompson,
Thank you for the GREAT memories. Robert Kennedy was a Hero. I wish Ted Kennedy all the best. Although I still have a hard time with CHAPPAQUIDICK. Unfortunately Ted killed that young lady and is now going to pay for it. All accounts are due, in the end….
To; Davis J. Thompson,
Thank you for the GREAT memories. Robert Kennedy was a Hero. I wish Ted Kennedy all the best. Although I still have a hard time with CHAPPAQUIDICK. Unfortunately Ted killed that young lady and is now going to pay for it. All accounts are due, in the end….
“To: ACTUALLY SAID, DPD, AND THE QUOTER OF THE WINE GLASS CAPER AND OTHERS COMMENTING HERE,
DPD plays both sides of the fence here. Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD. Do mental patients become harmful to others and hurt or murder others? ALL the time.
Did the alleged victim in this case understand orders or not? DPD doesn’t know and neither does anyone else making comments here.
The wine glass scenario. How much Pepper Spray time is in a “Cannister”of Pepper Spray. Were you there? You are just speculating about a situation because you have a bias regarding any authority. You don’t like authority and prefer to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.”
Monday morning quarterbacking can improve things, so that something like this is less likely to happen. My hope is the Woodland Police, whether any officer is disciplined or not, will take a look at its tasering policies and think again. After all, the LA Police used choke holds for a long time, until public outcry and numerous deaths caused a necessary alteration in policy. If the public says nothing, then nothing will change.
“To: ACTUALLY SAID, DPD, AND THE QUOTER OF THE WINE GLASS CAPER AND OTHERS COMMENTING HERE,
DPD plays both sides of the fence here. Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD. Do mental patients become harmful to others and hurt or murder others? ALL the time.
Did the alleged victim in this case understand orders or not? DPD doesn’t know and neither does anyone else making comments here.
The wine glass scenario. How much Pepper Spray time is in a “Cannister”of Pepper Spray. Were you there? You are just speculating about a situation because you have a bias regarding any authority. You don’t like authority and prefer to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.”
Monday morning quarterbacking can improve things, so that something like this is less likely to happen. My hope is the Woodland Police, whether any officer is disciplined or not, will take a look at its tasering policies and think again. After all, the LA Police used choke holds for a long time, until public outcry and numerous deaths caused a necessary alteration in policy. If the public says nothing, then nothing will change.
“To: ACTUALLY SAID, DPD, AND THE QUOTER OF THE WINE GLASS CAPER AND OTHERS COMMENTING HERE,
DPD plays both sides of the fence here. Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD. Do mental patients become harmful to others and hurt or murder others? ALL the time.
Did the alleged victim in this case understand orders or not? DPD doesn’t know and neither does anyone else making comments here.
The wine glass scenario. How much Pepper Spray time is in a “Cannister”of Pepper Spray. Were you there? You are just speculating about a situation because you have a bias regarding any authority. You don’t like authority and prefer to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.”
Monday morning quarterbacking can improve things, so that something like this is less likely to happen. My hope is the Woodland Police, whether any officer is disciplined or not, will take a look at its tasering policies and think again. After all, the LA Police used choke holds for a long time, until public outcry and numerous deaths caused a necessary alteration in policy. If the public says nothing, then nothing will change.
“To: ACTUALLY SAID, DPD, AND THE QUOTER OF THE WINE GLASS CAPER AND OTHERS COMMENTING HERE,
DPD plays both sides of the fence here. Was the victim really dangerous? No one knows, especially DPD. Do mental patients become harmful to others and hurt or murder others? ALL the time.
Did the alleged victim in this case understand orders or not? DPD doesn’t know and neither does anyone else making comments here.
The wine glass scenario. How much Pepper Spray time is in a “Cannister”of Pepper Spray. Were you there? You are just speculating about a situation because you have a bias regarding any authority. You don’t like authority and prefer to be a Monday Morning Quarterback.”
Monday morning quarterbacking can improve things, so that something like this is less likely to happen. My hope is the Woodland Police, whether any officer is disciplined or not, will take a look at its tasering policies and think again. After all, the LA Police used choke holds for a long time, until public outcry and numerous deaths caused a necessary alteration in policy. If the public says nothing, then nothing will change.
I’m appalled that some on this blog will not even consider that the police did something wrong in their handling of this individual suffering from mental illness. I believe that the intention was for the police to do a welfare check – to make sure he was alright.
A man died during the course of being tazed and beaten by the police.
Why is it so wrong to question this?
I’m appalled that some on this blog will not even consider that the police did something wrong in their handling of this individual suffering from mental illness. I believe that the intention was for the police to do a welfare check – to make sure he was alright.
A man died during the course of being tazed and beaten by the police.
Why is it so wrong to question this?
I’m appalled that some on this blog will not even consider that the police did something wrong in their handling of this individual suffering from mental illness. I believe that the intention was for the police to do a welfare check – to make sure he was alright.
A man died during the course of being tazed and beaten by the police.
Why is it so wrong to question this?
I’m appalled that some on this blog will not even consider that the police did something wrong in their handling of this individual suffering from mental illness. I believe that the intention was for the police to do a welfare check – to make sure he was alright.
A man died during the course of being tazed and beaten by the police.
Why is it so wrong to question this?
I just read Wu Ming’s comment about arming Cops only with “Billy Clubs”, I agree. I would also like to see Wu Ming put her money where her mouth is. Out on the streets responding to all police calls arned only with a “Billy Club”.
Wu Ming would’nt last a day,even in Davis.
I just read Wu Ming’s comment about arming Cops only with “Billy Clubs”, I agree. I would also like to see Wu Ming put her money where her mouth is. Out on the streets responding to all police calls arned only with a “Billy Club”.
Wu Ming would’nt last a day,even in Davis.
I just read Wu Ming’s comment about arming Cops only with “Billy Clubs”, I agree. I would also like to see Wu Ming put her money where her mouth is. Out on the streets responding to all police calls arned only with a “Billy Club”.
Wu Ming would’nt last a day,even in Davis.
I just read Wu Ming’s comment about arming Cops only with “Billy Clubs”, I agree. I would also like to see Wu Ming put her money where her mouth is. Out on the streets responding to all police calls arned only with a “Billy Club”.
Wu Ming would’nt last a day,even in Davis.
I would bet on Wu Ming, even if blind folded and armed with nothing more than a feather.
I would bet on Wu Ming, even if blind folded and armed with nothing more than a feather.
I would bet on Wu Ming, even if blind folded and armed with nothing more than a feather.
I would bet on Wu Ming, even if blind folded and armed with nothing more than a feather.
I’ll take that bet…..
I’ll take that bet…..
I’ll take that bet…..
I’ll take that bet…..
I should mention he has more going for him than just the feather. He reasons before he acts, he does not overreact and he treats others with respect.
I should mention he has more going for him than just the feather. He reasons before he acts, he does not overreact and he treats others with respect.
I should mention he has more going for him than just the feather. He reasons before he acts, he does not overreact and he treats others with respect.
I should mention he has more going for him than just the feather. He reasons before he acts, he does not overreact and he treats others with respect.
First: my deepest sympathy to the family of Ricardo Abrahams.
The officers involved should be fully investigated and brought to justice.
Mr. Abrahams’ rights were violated.
Regardless of his history of mental-instability, he was not guilty of any crime.
The officers should have simply restrained him (they are trained to do this without the use of batons or tasers),and relocated him to a mental health facility for evaluation.
I advise the family of the victim to seek legal counsel, and file a civil suit against the officers who took Ricardo’s life.
These officers will probably escape criminal conviction, but they should be held accountable to their victim’s family in civil court.
I was in Los Angeles when Rodney King was brutalized and I lived throught the subsequent riots. As horrific as it was, at least Mr. King is still alive.
Police officers nationwide need to remember that they’re dealing with human beings, not animals.
Police authority is not absolute. Citizens rights must be respected at all times. It is our right and responsiblity to “police” the police.
First: my deepest sympathy to the family of Ricardo Abrahams.
The officers involved should be fully investigated and brought to justice.
Mr. Abrahams’ rights were violated.
Regardless of his history of mental-instability, he was not guilty of any crime.
The officers should have simply restrained him (they are trained to do this without the use of batons or tasers),and relocated him to a mental health facility for evaluation.
I advise the family of the victim to seek legal counsel, and file a civil suit against the officers who took Ricardo’s life.
These officers will probably escape criminal conviction, but they should be held accountable to their victim’s family in civil court.
I was in Los Angeles when Rodney King was brutalized and I lived throught the subsequent riots. As horrific as it was, at least Mr. King is still alive.
Police officers nationwide need to remember that they’re dealing with human beings, not animals.
Police authority is not absolute. Citizens rights must be respected at all times. It is our right and responsiblity to “police” the police.
First: my deepest sympathy to the family of Ricardo Abrahams.
The officers involved should be fully investigated and brought to justice.
Mr. Abrahams’ rights were violated.
Regardless of his history of mental-instability, he was not guilty of any crime.
The officers should have simply restrained him (they are trained to do this without the use of batons or tasers),and relocated him to a mental health facility for evaluation.
I advise the family of the victim to seek legal counsel, and file a civil suit against the officers who took Ricardo’s life.
These officers will probably escape criminal conviction, but they should be held accountable to their victim’s family in civil court.
I was in Los Angeles when Rodney King was brutalized and I lived throught the subsequent riots. As horrific as it was, at least Mr. King is still alive.
Police officers nationwide need to remember that they’re dealing with human beings, not animals.
Police authority is not absolute. Citizens rights must be respected at all times. It is our right and responsiblity to “police” the police.
First: my deepest sympathy to the family of Ricardo Abrahams.
The officers involved should be fully investigated and brought to justice.
Mr. Abrahams’ rights were violated.
Regardless of his history of mental-instability, he was not guilty of any crime.
The officers should have simply restrained him (they are trained to do this without the use of batons or tasers),and relocated him to a mental health facility for evaluation.
I advise the family of the victim to seek legal counsel, and file a civil suit against the officers who took Ricardo’s life.
These officers will probably escape criminal conviction, but they should be held accountable to their victim’s family in civil court.
I was in Los Angeles when Rodney King was brutalized and I lived throught the subsequent riots. As horrific as it was, at least Mr. King is still alive.
Police officers nationwide need to remember that they’re dealing with human beings, not animals.
Police authority is not absolute. Citizens rights must be respected at all times. It is our right and responsiblity to “police” the police.
So if a cop approaches me and I ignore the cop, and I seem “aggitated”, the cop has the right to kill me?
What if I’m clinically deaf and cannot hear the police officer?
What if I’m in a horrible mood because gas is nearly $5 a gallon, the president’s an idiot and we’re at war?
What if I’m just depressed about things in general and don’t want to be bothered by anybody that day?
If someone isn’t committing a crime, they should be left alone. If they’re “disturbing the peace” or being “confrontational” they should be helped or taken someplace safe, not killed!
Shaking my head in digust…
So if a cop approaches me and I ignore the cop, and I seem “aggitated”, the cop has the right to kill me?
What if I’m clinically deaf and cannot hear the police officer?
What if I’m in a horrible mood because gas is nearly $5 a gallon, the president’s an idiot and we’re at war?
What if I’m just depressed about things in general and don’t want to be bothered by anybody that day?
If someone isn’t committing a crime, they should be left alone. If they’re “disturbing the peace” or being “confrontational” they should be helped or taken someplace safe, not killed!
Shaking my head in digust…
So if a cop approaches me and I ignore the cop, and I seem “aggitated”, the cop has the right to kill me?
What if I’m clinically deaf and cannot hear the police officer?
What if I’m in a horrible mood because gas is nearly $5 a gallon, the president’s an idiot and we’re at war?
What if I’m just depressed about things in general and don’t want to be bothered by anybody that day?
If someone isn’t committing a crime, they should be left alone. If they’re “disturbing the peace” or being “confrontational” they should be helped or taken someplace safe, not killed!
Shaking my head in digust…
So if a cop approaches me and I ignore the cop, and I seem “aggitated”, the cop has the right to kill me?
What if I’m clinically deaf and cannot hear the police officer?
What if I’m in a horrible mood because gas is nearly $5 a gallon, the president’s an idiot and we’re at war?
What if I’m just depressed about things in general and don’t want to be bothered by anybody that day?
If someone isn’t committing a crime, they should be left alone. If they’re “disturbing the peace” or being “confrontational” they should be helped or taken someplace safe, not killed!
Shaking my head in digust…
The last time my neighbors had a big loud obnoxious all-night party and disturbed MY peace, I knocked at their door and politely asked them to turn down the volume. They were very CONFRONTATIONAL with me and ignored my request.
Maybe the next time this happens, I’ll just call my local police department and they can come right over and beat the crap out of my neighbors and taser them until they’re all dead.
Then I can finally get some sleep!
The last time my neighbors had a big loud obnoxious all-night party and disturbed MY peace, I knocked at their door and politely asked them to turn down the volume. They were very CONFRONTATIONAL with me and ignored my request.
Maybe the next time this happens, I’ll just call my local police department and they can come right over and beat the crap out of my neighbors and taser them until they’re all dead.
Then I can finally get some sleep!
The last time my neighbors had a big loud obnoxious all-night party and disturbed MY peace, I knocked at their door and politely asked them to turn down the volume. They were very CONFRONTATIONAL with me and ignored my request.
Maybe the next time this happens, I’ll just call my local police department and they can come right over and beat the crap out of my neighbors and taser them until they’re all dead.
Then I can finally get some sleep!
The last time my neighbors had a big loud obnoxious all-night party and disturbed MY peace, I knocked at their door and politely asked them to turn down the volume. They were very CONFRONTATIONAL with me and ignored my request.
Maybe the next time this happens, I’ll just call my local police department and they can come right over and beat the crap out of my neighbors and taser them until they’re all dead.
Then I can finally get some sleep!
FYI
(06-07) 11:58 PDT San Jose, Calif. (AP) —
A federal jury in San Jose has awarded $6 million to the family of a Salinas man who died after police officers repeatedly shocked him with Taser stun guns.
The jury on Friday found that Taser International of Scottsdale, Ariz., was responsible for the death of 40-year-old Robert Heston Jr.
He died on Feb. 20, 2005, a day after police officers shocked him with tasers as many as 30 times while trying to subdue him at his father’s home. A friend had called 911 to report Heston was behaving violently.
FYI
(06-07) 11:58 PDT San Jose, Calif. (AP) —
A federal jury in San Jose has awarded $6 million to the family of a Salinas man who died after police officers repeatedly shocked him with Taser stun guns.
The jury on Friday found that Taser International of Scottsdale, Ariz., was responsible for the death of 40-year-old Robert Heston Jr.
He died on Feb. 20, 2005, a day after police officers shocked him with tasers as many as 30 times while trying to subdue him at his father’s home. A friend had called 911 to report Heston was behaving violently.
FYI
(06-07) 11:58 PDT San Jose, Calif. (AP) —
A federal jury in San Jose has awarded $6 million to the family of a Salinas man who died after police officers repeatedly shocked him with Taser stun guns.
The jury on Friday found that Taser International of Scottsdale, Ariz., was responsible for the death of 40-year-old Robert Heston Jr.
He died on Feb. 20, 2005, a day after police officers shocked him with tasers as many as 30 times while trying to subdue him at his father’s home. A friend had called 911 to report Heston was behaving violently.
FYI
(06-07) 11:58 PDT San Jose, Calif. (AP) —
A federal jury in San Jose has awarded $6 million to the family of a Salinas man who died after police officers repeatedly shocked him with Taser stun guns.
The jury on Friday found that Taser International of Scottsdale, Ariz., was responsible for the death of 40-year-old Robert Heston Jr.
He died on Feb. 20, 2005, a day after police officers shocked him with tasers as many as 30 times while trying to subdue him at his father’s home. A friend had called 911 to report Heston was behaving violently.
To the writer of ” …who is suffering more..”, I have grave concerns regarding what I perceive to be a stereotype about the ” mentally ill.” Do you have information that Mr. Abrahams was in general a violent danger to the public and has a history of harming ” people’s kids?” I assure you that most violent mentally ill individuals are hospitalized at an inpatient facility or roaming the streets untreated. They are typically not the people who seek outpatient assistance, like Mr. Abrahams.
The majority of ” mentally ill” do not harm or kill others. This man was an intern for the DA’s Office. Therefore, unless that office is really more out of touch with reality than I even suspect, I doubt that his daily functioning was severely impaired.
Mr. Abrahams is a ” victim” in this regardless of whether the police department had appropriate training or followed protocol on how to deal with an agitated person with a history of mental illness.
To the writer of ” …who is suffering more..”, I have grave concerns regarding what I perceive to be a stereotype about the ” mentally ill.” Do you have information that Mr. Abrahams was in general a violent danger to the public and has a history of harming ” people’s kids?” I assure you that most violent mentally ill individuals are hospitalized at an inpatient facility or roaming the streets untreated. They are typically not the people who seek outpatient assistance, like Mr. Abrahams.
The majority of ” mentally ill” do not harm or kill others. This man was an intern for the DA’s Office. Therefore, unless that office is really more out of touch with reality than I even suspect, I doubt that his daily functioning was severely impaired.
Mr. Abrahams is a ” victim” in this regardless of whether the police department had appropriate training or followed protocol on how to deal with an agitated person with a history of mental illness.
To the writer of ” …who is suffering more..”, I have grave concerns regarding what I perceive to be a stereotype about the ” mentally ill.” Do you have information that Mr. Abrahams was in general a violent danger to the public and has a history of harming ” people’s kids?” I assure you that most violent mentally ill individuals are hospitalized at an inpatient facility or roaming the streets untreated. They are typically not the people who seek outpatient assistance, like Mr. Abrahams.
The majority of ” mentally ill” do not harm or kill others. This man was an intern for the DA’s Office. Therefore, unless that office is really more out of touch with reality than I even suspect, I doubt that his daily functioning was severely impaired.
Mr. Abrahams is a ” victim” in this regardless of whether the police department had appropriate training or followed protocol on how to deal with an agitated person with a history of mental illness.
To the writer of ” …who is suffering more..”, I have grave concerns regarding what I perceive to be a stereotype about the ” mentally ill.” Do you have information that Mr. Abrahams was in general a violent danger to the public and has a history of harming ” people’s kids?” I assure you that most violent mentally ill individuals are hospitalized at an inpatient facility or roaming the streets untreated. They are typically not the people who seek outpatient assistance, like Mr. Abrahams.
The majority of ” mentally ill” do not harm or kill others. This man was an intern for the DA’s Office. Therefore, unless that office is really more out of touch with reality than I even suspect, I doubt that his daily functioning was severely impaired.
Mr. Abrahams is a ” victim” in this regardless of whether the police department had appropriate training or followed protocol on how to deal with an agitated person with a history of mental illness.
My Apoligies,
I did not realize Wu Ming is a HE and not a SHE.
I am glad that Wu Ming reasons before he reacts and has respect for others. Tell me how that will work on the street? I would really like to know. And when you’re done explaining I can give you lots of REAL SCENARIOS where that strategy will not work
My Apoligies,
I did not realize Wu Ming is a HE and not a SHE.
I am glad that Wu Ming reasons before he reacts and has respect for others. Tell me how that will work on the street? I would really like to know. And when you’re done explaining I can give you lots of REAL SCENARIOS where that strategy will not work
My Apoligies,
I did not realize Wu Ming is a HE and not a SHE.
I am glad that Wu Ming reasons before he reacts and has respect for others. Tell me how that will work on the street? I would really like to know. And when you’re done explaining I can give you lots of REAL SCENARIOS where that strategy will not work
My Apoligies,
I did not realize Wu Ming is a HE and not a SHE.
I am glad that Wu Ming reasons before he reacts and has respect for others. Tell me how that will work on the street? I would really like to know. And when you’re done explaining I can give you lots of REAL SCENARIOS where that strategy will not work
I agree with the statements about Rodney King. The cops should never have beaten him like that. They should have just applied the choke hold. That way the taxpayers would have paid once and ole rodney would no longer beat women or endanger peoples lives by driving while intoxicated. Rodney King is a lowlife.
I agree with the statements about Rodney King. The cops should never have beaten him like that. They should have just applied the choke hold. That way the taxpayers would have paid once and ole rodney would no longer beat women or endanger peoples lives by driving while intoxicated. Rodney King is a lowlife.
I agree with the statements about Rodney King. The cops should never have beaten him like that. They should have just applied the choke hold. That way the taxpayers would have paid once and ole rodney would no longer beat women or endanger peoples lives by driving while intoxicated. Rodney King is a lowlife.
I agree with the statements about Rodney King. The cops should never have beaten him like that. They should have just applied the choke hold. That way the taxpayers would have paid once and ole rodney would no longer beat women or endanger peoples lives by driving while intoxicated. Rodney King is a lowlife.
“I am glad that Wu Ming reasons before he reacts and has respect for others. Tell me how that will work on the street?”
I will give you one example. In the case of Mr. Abrahams – he would still be alive and well.
“I am glad that Wu Ming reasons before he reacts and has respect for others. Tell me how that will work on the street?”
I will give you one example. In the case of Mr. Abrahams – he would still be alive and well.
“I am glad that Wu Ming reasons before he reacts and has respect for others. Tell me how that will work on the street?”
I will give you one example. In the case of Mr. Abrahams – he would still be alive and well.
“I am glad that Wu Ming reasons before he reacts and has respect for others. Tell me how that will work on the street?”
I will give you one example. In the case of Mr. Abrahams – he would still be alive and well.
Mr. Abrahams might still be alive and Wu Ming injured or dead. The positive and the negative.
Mr. Abrahams might still be alive and Wu Ming injured or dead. The positive and the negative.
Mr. Abrahams might still be alive and Wu Ming injured or dead. The positive and the negative.
Mr. Abrahams might still be alive and Wu Ming injured or dead. The positive and the negative.
It’s been nearly three weeks. Why the delay in telling us the results of the investigation? I suspect that people are working hard to cover their asses. I’m guessing that all suspected acts of wrongdoing will be “unsubstantiated” and blame the victim – “he was aggressive and combative,” “he was overweight and out of shape.” I have no confidence that any investigation will result in any form of discipline for these officers.
It’s been nearly three weeks. Why the delay in telling us the results of the investigation? I suspect that people are working hard to cover their asses. I’m guessing that all suspected acts of wrongdoing will be “unsubstantiated” and blame the victim – “he was aggressive and combative,” “he was overweight and out of shape.” I have no confidence that any investigation will result in any form of discipline for these officers.
It’s been nearly three weeks. Why the delay in telling us the results of the investigation? I suspect that people are working hard to cover their asses. I’m guessing that all suspected acts of wrongdoing will be “unsubstantiated” and blame the victim – “he was aggressive and combative,” “he was overweight and out of shape.” I have no confidence that any investigation will result in any form of discipline for these officers.
It’s been nearly three weeks. Why the delay in telling us the results of the investigation? I suspect that people are working hard to cover their asses. I’m guessing that all suspected acts of wrongdoing will be “unsubstantiated” and blame the victim – “he was aggressive and combative,” “he was overweight and out of shape.” I have no confidence that any investigation will result in any form of discipline for these officers.
To the Above:
It seems you have found them guilty already. You make the assumption of a cover-up. How long does an investigation of this kind take? Fortunately for the overwhelming majority people who tink like are not in charge.
Rave on cat crap cause someone is going to come along and cover you up.
To the Above:
It seems you have found them guilty already. You make the assumption of a cover-up. How long does an investigation of this kind take? Fortunately for the overwhelming majority people who tink like are not in charge.
Rave on cat crap cause someone is going to come along and cover you up.
To the Above:
It seems you have found them guilty already. You make the assumption of a cover-up. How long does an investigation of this kind take? Fortunately for the overwhelming majority people who tink like are not in charge.
Rave on cat crap cause someone is going to come along and cover you up.
To the Above:
It seems you have found them guilty already. You make the assumption of a cover-up. How long does an investigation of this kind take? Fortunately for the overwhelming majority people who tink like are not in charge.
Rave on cat crap cause someone is going to come along and cover you up.
Hope the family gets a good lawyer and sues.
Sue ’em so hard they never forget.
Hope the family gets a good lawyer and sues.
Sue ’em so hard they never forget.
Hope the family gets a good lawyer and sues.
Sue ’em so hard they never forget.
Hope the family gets a good lawyer and sues.
Sue ’em so hard they never forget.
You Dems are a joke. The police tried to talk to this person but he was a nutcase. I am glad that they tried to get him off the streets. You all admit the guy had mental issue. The police used tasers as an attempt to not use a deadly weapon. Wait for the toxicology report…or you could just blame it on Bush.
And for the “author”, you mention there have been 300 deaths since 2001 due to the use of tasers. How many thugs have lived because the police only tasered them as opposed to shooting them?
This type of biased, liberal, uneducated minutia is just a small contributing factor in the decline of our ethics as a Country. Perhaps you should call Cindy Sheehan to go to Woodland and camp out in hopes that the Woodland police will no longer use tasers…then they can just use guns.
These police officers took their positions because they wanted to dedicate their lives to public service. You people forget the countless times they have risked their lives to make Woodland a better place. You are the people who make this a “Hispanic” issue.
The bottom-line is that this guy was crazy.
*The police tried to talk to him, talking did not work.
*The police then gave him commands after determining that it was not safe for him to be roaming the streets as he could potentially hurt himself in that mental state, the commands did not work.
*The police then tried to subdue the man, he became violent.
*In response to the man’s assault on police officers, the man was tasered as opposed to being shot with a gun (the tasering was an attempt by police officers to get the man in custody without permanently injuring the man, to the credit of the police).
*The man subsequently died. His death was not a result of actions by police officers but was a result of the man’s own mental illness. His inability to process good decisions lead to his death.
You Dems are a joke. The police tried to talk to this person but he was a nutcase. I am glad that they tried to get him off the streets. You all admit the guy had mental issue. The police used tasers as an attempt to not use a deadly weapon. Wait for the toxicology report…or you could just blame it on Bush.
And for the “author”, you mention there have been 300 deaths since 2001 due to the use of tasers. How many thugs have lived because the police only tasered them as opposed to shooting them?
This type of biased, liberal, uneducated minutia is just a small contributing factor in the decline of our ethics as a Country. Perhaps you should call Cindy Sheehan to go to Woodland and camp out in hopes that the Woodland police will no longer use tasers…then they can just use guns.
These police officers took their positions because they wanted to dedicate their lives to public service. You people forget the countless times they have risked their lives to make Woodland a better place. You are the people who make this a “Hispanic” issue.
The bottom-line is that this guy was crazy.
*The police tried to talk to him, talking did not work.
*The police then gave him commands after determining that it was not safe for him to be roaming the streets as he could potentially hurt himself in that mental state, the commands did not work.
*The police then tried to subdue the man, he became violent.
*In response to the man’s assault on police officers, the man was tasered as opposed to being shot with a gun (the tasering was an attempt by police officers to get the man in custody without permanently injuring the man, to the credit of the police).
*The man subsequently died. His death was not a result of actions by police officers but was a result of the man’s own mental illness. His inability to process good decisions lead to his death.
You Dems are a joke. The police tried to talk to this person but he was a nutcase. I am glad that they tried to get him off the streets. You all admit the guy had mental issue. The police used tasers as an attempt to not use a deadly weapon. Wait for the toxicology report…or you could just blame it on Bush.
And for the “author”, you mention there have been 300 deaths since 2001 due to the use of tasers. How many thugs have lived because the police only tasered them as opposed to shooting them?
This type of biased, liberal, uneducated minutia is just a small contributing factor in the decline of our ethics as a Country. Perhaps you should call Cindy Sheehan to go to Woodland and camp out in hopes that the Woodland police will no longer use tasers…then they can just use guns.
These police officers took their positions because they wanted to dedicate their lives to public service. You people forget the countless times they have risked their lives to make Woodland a better place. You are the people who make this a “Hispanic” issue.
The bottom-line is that this guy was crazy.
*The police tried to talk to him, talking did not work.
*The police then gave him commands after determining that it was not safe for him to be roaming the streets as he could potentially hurt himself in that mental state, the commands did not work.
*The police then tried to subdue the man, he became violent.
*In response to the man’s assault on police officers, the man was tasered as opposed to being shot with a gun (the tasering was an attempt by police officers to get the man in custody without permanently injuring the man, to the credit of the police).
*The man subsequently died. His death was not a result of actions by police officers but was a result of the man’s own mental illness. His inability to process good decisions lead to his death.
You Dems are a joke. The police tried to talk to this person but he was a nutcase. I am glad that they tried to get him off the streets. You all admit the guy had mental issue. The police used tasers as an attempt to not use a deadly weapon. Wait for the toxicology report…or you could just blame it on Bush.
And for the “author”, you mention there have been 300 deaths since 2001 due to the use of tasers. How many thugs have lived because the police only tasered them as opposed to shooting them?
This type of biased, liberal, uneducated minutia is just a small contributing factor in the decline of our ethics as a Country. Perhaps you should call Cindy Sheehan to go to Woodland and camp out in hopes that the Woodland police will no longer use tasers…then they can just use guns.
These police officers took their positions because they wanted to dedicate their lives to public service. You people forget the countless times they have risked their lives to make Woodland a better place. You are the people who make this a “Hispanic” issue.
The bottom-line is that this guy was crazy.
*The police tried to talk to him, talking did not work.
*The police then gave him commands after determining that it was not safe for him to be roaming the streets as he could potentially hurt himself in that mental state, the commands did not work.
*The police then tried to subdue the man, he became violent.
*In response to the man’s assault on police officers, the man was tasered as opposed to being shot with a gun (the tasering was an attempt by police officers to get the man in custody without permanently injuring the man, to the credit of the police).
*The man subsequently died. His death was not a result of actions by police officers but was a result of the man’s own mental illness. His inability to process good decisions lead to his death.
“The police tried to talk to this person but he was a nutcase.”
You just said it yourself. There are trained professionals who know how to deal with people who suffer from mental disorders (your word choice not only shows a lack of understanding, sensitivity but also demonstrates your bias here). They knew this going into the call. Perhaps the police are the best people to have tried to deal with this man if they could not do it without four taser shocks including simultaneous ones. Mental health professionals have to deal with these kinds of people all the time and they do not usually resort to tasering them.
“The police tried to talk to this person but he was a nutcase.”
You just said it yourself. There are trained professionals who know how to deal with people who suffer from mental disorders (your word choice not only shows a lack of understanding, sensitivity but also demonstrates your bias here). They knew this going into the call. Perhaps the police are the best people to have tried to deal with this man if they could not do it without four taser shocks including simultaneous ones. Mental health professionals have to deal with these kinds of people all the time and they do not usually resort to tasering them.
“The police tried to talk to this person but he was a nutcase.”
You just said it yourself. There are trained professionals who know how to deal with people who suffer from mental disorders (your word choice not only shows a lack of understanding, sensitivity but also demonstrates your bias here). They knew this going into the call. Perhaps the police are the best people to have tried to deal with this man if they could not do it without four taser shocks including simultaneous ones. Mental health professionals have to deal with these kinds of people all the time and they do not usually resort to tasering them.
“The police tried to talk to this person but he was a nutcase.”
You just said it yourself. There are trained professionals who know how to deal with people who suffer from mental disorders (your word choice not only shows a lack of understanding, sensitivity but also demonstrates your bias here). They knew this going into the call. Perhaps the police are the best people to have tried to deal with this man if they could not do it without four taser shocks including simultaneous ones. Mental health professionals have to deal with these kinds of people all the time and they do not usually resort to tasering them.