Commentary: Third and B Project On Hold For Now

By David GreenwaldJune 27, 2008304 comments
I have to say up front, I think the council approved project in the neighborhood directly adjacent to the university between B and A Streets is one of the worst conceived ideas. As I have stated in the past, that neighborhood is one of my very favorite neighborhoods in the city of Davs–conveying the feel of a college town as few other areas in Davis do.

At the time of the vote, a good number of residents in the neighborhood opposed such a re-zoning believing that the character of their neighborhood would be altered by a large number of tall buildings.

However, the city council did pass the zoning change to allow the development of a series of townhouses and condominiums in this neighborhood that transitions between the university and downtown.

The first proposal under this new zoning ordinance went before the Davis Planning Commission on Wednesday evening.

This particular proposal called for the building of four, three-story buildings. It was radical enough even for the new zoning ordinance that the City planning department recommended that the planning commission deny the proposal based on its lack of conformity with the design guidelines set for the area.

The city’s Historical Resources Management Commission in early June discussed the project and argued that the project did not meet specified guidelines of the area.

At the meeting on Wednesday, Mike Webb, the city’s principal planner suggested that it was not necessary that the new buildings replicate the bungalow style of the existing buildings in the neighborhood. However, he also believed that this was too sharp a departure from the current neighborhood and that they would stand out. He seemed to prefer a building type that fit in while it did not regulate.

The applicant, Davis architect Marie Ogrydziak, has a choice as to how to remedy this situation. The planning commission was somewhat divided as to whether or not to allow the project to go forward. But in the end, they asked Ms. Ogrydziak to make various design changes to the project in hopes that it better meet the guidelines that were set forth by the city in cooperation with the neighborhood. The other alternative would have been for the applicant to appeal to the city and see what the city council says.

For her part, Ms. Ogrydziak seemed willing to try to make difficult changes to the roofline and trying to make it work.

The Vanguard believes that this was probably the wrong area of town to attempt this kind of remodel. Having a string of three story buildings (and there were proposals last year of up to four stories or higher) on the western edge of Central Park makes little sense.

The character of the western side of the core is too valuable to tear down the historic bungalows and put up a bunch of condominiums and townhouses. We understand the desire by the council to transition this neighborhood from the university to the downtown. One suggestion we would have would be adaptive reuse of the bungalows on B St on the western edge of the park from rental units housing students to shops and restaurants that could attract shoppers and restaurant-goers from the neighborhood as well as the rest of town. This was particularly effective for instance on the eastern edge of the park with places such as Burgers and Brew.

It is not that we oppose placing smaller and taller units around the core. It is that this does not seem the place to do it. On the eastern side of downtown and especially the PG&E yard it seems almost ideal in that you will not be destroying the existing character of the neighborhood just to the east of campus, you will not create a more boxed in feeling in the park, and yet you can achieve your goal of more housing and more housing close to the core.

That said, it is obvious that the current council majority wants to move forward with this project. As such, it is best that it as closely conforms to existing feel and design as possible. Good design and construction can produce the desired changes with a much lesser degree of alteration and intrusion as the current design produces. It is that type of compromise work that would best accomplish this goal. We look forward to seeing what a revised design would entail.

—Doug Paul Davis reporting

Author

  • David Greenwald

    Greenwald is the founder, editor, and executive director of the Davis Vanguard. He founded the Vanguard in 2006. David Greenwald moved to Davis in 1996 to attend Graduate School at UC Davis in Political Science. He lives in South Davis with his wife Cecilia Escamilla Greenwald and three children.

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Categories:

Land Use/Open Space

304 comments

  1. It is completely irresponsible for the architect to read the guidelines and then design three buildings that are in complete conflict with them. Her arrogance is amazing.

    If the planning commission or the city council backs down from enforcing the design guidelines and approves this project, they will be throwing away hours upon hours – hundreds of hours – of staff and citizen work to come up with a vision for the neighborhood.

    The buildings are simply tall, narrow square boxes. This is what she likes to do. Just look at her own building. She decimated the house that was on the corner and built the cheesiest of buildings. This is exactly what we don’t want for the neighborhood. She is not the architect that should be working on buildings for this neighborhood. She needs to hire an architect to help her who can envision buildings that will honor and add to the neighborhood.

  2. It is completely irresponsible for the architect to read the guidelines and then design three buildings that are in complete conflict with them. Her arrogance is amazing.

    If the planning commission or the city council backs down from enforcing the design guidelines and approves this project, they will be throwing away hours upon hours – hundreds of hours – of staff and citizen work to come up with a vision for the neighborhood.

    The buildings are simply tall, narrow square boxes. This is what she likes to do. Just look at her own building. She decimated the house that was on the corner and built the cheesiest of buildings. This is exactly what we don’t want for the neighborhood. She is not the architect that should be working on buildings for this neighborhood. She needs to hire an architect to help her who can envision buildings that will honor and add to the neighborhood.

  3. It is completely irresponsible for the architect to read the guidelines and then design three buildings that are in complete conflict with them. Her arrogance is amazing.

    If the planning commission or the city council backs down from enforcing the design guidelines and approves this project, they will be throwing away hours upon hours – hundreds of hours – of staff and citizen work to come up with a vision for the neighborhood.

    The buildings are simply tall, narrow square boxes. This is what she likes to do. Just look at her own building. She decimated the house that was on the corner and built the cheesiest of buildings. This is exactly what we don’t want for the neighborhood. She is not the architect that should be working on buildings for this neighborhood. She needs to hire an architect to help her who can envision buildings that will honor and add to the neighborhood.

  4. It is completely irresponsible for the architect to read the guidelines and then design three buildings that are in complete conflict with them. Her arrogance is amazing.

    If the planning commission or the city council backs down from enforcing the design guidelines and approves this project, they will be throwing away hours upon hours – hundreds of hours – of staff and citizen work to come up with a vision for the neighborhood.

    The buildings are simply tall, narrow square boxes. This is what she likes to do. Just look at her own building. She decimated the house that was on the corner and built the cheesiest of buildings. This is exactly what we don’t want for the neighborhood. She is not the architect that should be working on buildings for this neighborhood. She needs to hire an architect to help her who can envision buildings that will honor and add to the neighborhood.

  5. Orgidziak also did the apartment house where Cafe Roma used to be at the corner of 3rd and University. That building looks like it has measles or some social disease. And then look at the Co-op!! A giant Tinker-Toy joke.
    To that woman taste is as foreign a concept as honesty is to some of our more well-known politicians…

  6. Orgidziak also did the apartment house where Cafe Roma used to be at the corner of 3rd and University. That building looks like it has measles or some social disease. And then look at the Co-op!! A giant Tinker-Toy joke.
    To that woman taste is as foreign a concept as honesty is to some of our more well-known politicians…

  7. Orgidziak also did the apartment house where Cafe Roma used to be at the corner of 3rd and University. That building looks like it has measles or some social disease. And then look at the Co-op!! A giant Tinker-Toy joke.
    To that woman taste is as foreign a concept as honesty is to some of our more well-known politicians…

  8. Orgidziak also did the apartment house where Cafe Roma used to be at the corner of 3rd and University. That building looks like it has measles or some social disease. And then look at the Co-op!! A giant Tinker-Toy joke.
    To that woman taste is as foreign a concept as honesty is to some of our more well-known politicians…

  13. I don’t get it. You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live. This city needs to allow for growth, that means building up or out.

    Or did you really think you were going to seal the city in a vacuum pack?

  14. I don’t get it. You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live. This city needs to allow for growth, that means building up or out.

    Or did you really think you were going to seal the city in a vacuum pack?

  15. I don’t get it. You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live. This city needs to allow for growth, that means building up or out.

    Or did you really think you were going to seal the city in a vacuum pack?

  16. I don’t get it. You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live. This city needs to allow for growth, that means building up or out.

    Or did you really think you were going to seal the city in a vacuum pack?

  17. “You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live.”

    In this sentence, who does you refer to?

    Second point, the point was made in this article that it was the location rather than the concept that drew the objection–do you selectively read these articles just to make a snide remark?

  18. “You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live.”

    In this sentence, who does you refer to?

    Second point, the point was made in this article that it was the location rather than the concept that drew the objection–do you selectively read these articles just to make a snide remark?

  19. “You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live.”

    In this sentence, who does you refer to?

    Second point, the point was made in this article that it was the location rather than the concept that drew the objection–do you selectively read these articles just to make a snide remark?

  20. “You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live.”

    In this sentence, who does you refer to?

    Second point, the point was made in this article that it was the location rather than the concept that drew the objection–do you selectively read these articles just to make a snide remark?

  21. The Landscape Architecture Department over at Walker Hall at UCD currently has examples of possible designs that meet the design guidelines and respect the craftsman/bungelow feeling of the neighborhood. Some are three story condo or live/work buildings.

    The Planning Commission doesn’t need to go with Maria’s current design when there are other options available for her.

  22. The Landscape Architecture Department over at Walker Hall at UCD currently has examples of possible designs that meet the design guidelines and respect the craftsman/bungelow feeling of the neighborhood. Some are three story condo or live/work buildings.

    The Planning Commission doesn’t need to go with Maria’s current design when there are other options available for her.

  23. The Landscape Architecture Department over at Walker Hall at UCD currently has examples of possible designs that meet the design guidelines and respect the craftsman/bungelow feeling of the neighborhood. Some are three story condo or live/work buildings.

    The Planning Commission doesn’t need to go with Maria’s current design when there are other options available for her.

  24. The Landscape Architecture Department over at Walker Hall at UCD currently has examples of possible designs that meet the design guidelines and respect the craftsman/bungelow feeling of the neighborhood. Some are three story condo or live/work buildings.

    The Planning Commission doesn’t need to go with Maria’s current design when there are other options available for her.

  25. I don’t see this as an “anti-development” article. We can preserve the character of our college town without letting it look like Anytown USA.

    We cannot build ourseveles into affordability for students. The unversity has to take on some responsiblity and provide more on campus housing.

    Ceceilia and Rob spoke about this during the last election cycle and Sue spoke about the PG&E location for more housing.

    I agree that this architect doesn’t have the best taste for architectual design. At least not for the character and design of Davis.

    Does anyone know the story about the orange eyesore in East Davis where Symposium is located? Who thought of that color?

  26. I don’t see this as an “anti-development” article. We can preserve the character of our college town without letting it look like Anytown USA.

    We cannot build ourseveles into affordability for students. The unversity has to take on some responsiblity and provide more on campus housing.

    Ceceilia and Rob spoke about this during the last election cycle and Sue spoke about the PG&E location for more housing.

    I agree that this architect doesn’t have the best taste for architectual design. At least not for the character and design of Davis.

    Does anyone know the story about the orange eyesore in East Davis where Symposium is located? Who thought of that color?

  27. I don’t see this as an “anti-development” article. We can preserve the character of our college town without letting it look like Anytown USA.

    We cannot build ourseveles into affordability for students. The unversity has to take on some responsiblity and provide more on campus housing.

    Ceceilia and Rob spoke about this during the last election cycle and Sue spoke about the PG&E location for more housing.

    I agree that this architect doesn’t have the best taste for architectual design. At least not for the character and design of Davis.

    Does anyone know the story about the orange eyesore in East Davis where Symposium is located? Who thought of that color?

  28. I don’t see this as an “anti-development” article. We can preserve the character of our college town without letting it look like Anytown USA.

    We cannot build ourseveles into affordability for students. The unversity has to take on some responsiblity and provide more on campus housing.

    Ceceilia and Rob spoke about this during the last election cycle and Sue spoke about the PG&E location for more housing.

    I agree that this architect doesn’t have the best taste for architectual design. At least not for the character and design of Davis.

    Does anyone know the story about the orange eyesore in East Davis where Symposium is located? Who thought of that color?

  29. Orgidziak’s style does not mesh well with that neighborhood. Perhaps there is a neighborhood where it works. I do like the idea of rooftop gardens and applaud her use of this. I wish more architects were that visionary.

  30. Orgidziak’s style does not mesh well with that neighborhood. Perhaps there is a neighborhood where it works. I do like the idea of rooftop gardens and applaud her use of this. I wish more architects were that visionary.

  31. Orgidziak’s style does not mesh well with that neighborhood. Perhaps there is a neighborhood where it works. I do like the idea of rooftop gardens and applaud her use of this. I wish more architects were that visionary.

  32. Orgidziak’s style does not mesh well with that neighborhood. Perhaps there is a neighborhood where it works. I do like the idea of rooftop gardens and applaud her use of this. I wish more architects were that visionary.

  33. Does anyone have a link to an illustration of this project, so we can judge for ourselves? I couldn’t find anything in the minutes or at the city web site.

    “Does anyone know the story about the orange eyesore in East Davis where Symposium is located? Who thought of that color?”
    I think the city staff chose that color.

  34. Does anyone have a link to an illustration of this project, so we can judge for ourselves? I couldn’t find anything in the minutes or at the city web site.

    “Does anyone know the story about the orange eyesore in East Davis where Symposium is located? Who thought of that color?”
    I think the city staff chose that color.

  35. Does anyone have a link to an illustration of this project, so we can judge for ourselves? I couldn’t find anything in the minutes or at the city web site.

    “Does anyone know the story about the orange eyesore in East Davis where Symposium is located? Who thought of that color?”
    I think the city staff chose that color.

  36. Does anyone have a link to an illustration of this project, so we can judge for ourselves? I couldn’t find anything in the minutes or at the city web site.

    “Does anyone know the story about the orange eyesore in East Davis where Symposium is located? Who thought of that color?”
    I think the city staff chose that color.

  37. is this more housing that people can’t afford as people in Sacramento accurately said about the 18th and L project years ago?

    I am not very familiar with this project, but to what extent would it provide housing close to campus that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?

    is the purpose of the project to import more upper middle income people into Davis, or is it to provide housing for students and people in the city who can’t otherwise afford to live there?

    if it is the former, there’s no reason to proceed with this project at all, if the latter, then a redesign might be in order, something that should certainly be possible

    –Richard Estes

  38. is this more housing that people can’t afford as people in Sacramento accurately said about the 18th and L project years ago?

    I am not very familiar with this project, but to what extent would it provide housing close to campus that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?

    is the purpose of the project to import more upper middle income people into Davis, or is it to provide housing for students and people in the city who can’t otherwise afford to live there?

    if it is the former, there’s no reason to proceed with this project at all, if the latter, then a redesign might be in order, something that should certainly be possible

    –Richard Estes

  39. is this more housing that people can’t afford as people in Sacramento accurately said about the 18th and L project years ago?

    I am not very familiar with this project, but to what extent would it provide housing close to campus that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?

    is the purpose of the project to import more upper middle income people into Davis, or is it to provide housing for students and people in the city who can’t otherwise afford to live there?

    if it is the former, there’s no reason to proceed with this project at all, if the latter, then a redesign might be in order, something that should certainly be possible

    –Richard Estes

  40. is this more housing that people can’t afford as people in Sacramento accurately said about the 18th and L project years ago?

    I am not very familiar with this project, but to what extent would it provide housing close to campus that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?

    is the purpose of the project to import more upper middle income people into Davis, or is it to provide housing for students and people in the city who can’t otherwise afford to live there?

    if it is the former, there’s no reason to proceed with this project at all, if the latter, then a redesign might be in order, something that should certainly be possible

    –Richard Estes

  45. If you want housing for students, build apartments. That is not the purpose of this project, nor is it likely that owners of properties in that neighborhood will find it economical or profitable to build student housing there. Affordable housing for students means apartments.

  46. If you want housing for students, build apartments. That is not the purpose of this project, nor is it likely that owners of properties in that neighborhood will find it economical or profitable to build student housing there. Affordable housing for students means apartments.

  47. If you want housing for students, build apartments. That is not the purpose of this project, nor is it likely that owners of properties in that neighborhood will find it economical or profitable to build student housing there. Affordable housing for students means apartments.

  48. If you want housing for students, build apartments. That is not the purpose of this project, nor is it likely that owners of properties in that neighborhood will find it economical or profitable to build student housing there. Affordable housing for students means apartments.

  49. “…that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?”

    There are probably far more students living in Davis, in apartments, than in all those other communities. The student population of Dixon is very small. Thousands of students live in apartment complexes in South Davis, West Davis, and all along Sycamore extending into North Davis. Students live in duplexes, lower-cost homes, and various apartment complexes in East Davis.
    The notion that students are heading out of town for affordable housing in great numbers is probably a myth. Employees of UCD? Yes.

  50. “…that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?”

    There are probably far more students living in Davis, in apartments, than in all those other communities. The student population of Dixon is very small. Thousands of students live in apartment complexes in South Davis, West Davis, and all along Sycamore extending into North Davis. Students live in duplexes, lower-cost homes, and various apartment complexes in East Davis.
    The notion that students are heading out of town for affordable housing in great numbers is probably a myth. Employees of UCD? Yes.

  51. “…that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?”

    There are probably far more students living in Davis, in apartments, than in all those other communities. The student population of Dixon is very small. Thousands of students live in apartment complexes in South Davis, West Davis, and all along Sycamore extending into North Davis. Students live in duplexes, lower-cost homes, and various apartment complexes in East Davis.
    The notion that students are heading out of town for affordable housing in great numbers is probably a myth. Employees of UCD? Yes.

  52. “…that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?”

    There are probably far more students living in Davis, in apartments, than in all those other communities. The student population of Dixon is very small. Thousands of students live in apartment complexes in South Davis, West Davis, and all along Sycamore extending into North Davis. Students live in duplexes, lower-cost homes, and various apartment complexes in East Davis.
    The notion that students are heading out of town for affordable housing in great numbers is probably a myth. Employees of UCD? Yes.

  53. “…that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?”

    There are probably far more students living in Davis, in apartments, than in all those other communities. The student population of Dixon is very small. Thousands of students live in apartment complexes in South Davis, West Davis, and all along Sycamore extending into North Davis. Students live in duplexes, lower-cost homes, and various apartment complexes in East Davis.
    The notion that students are heading out of town for affordable housing in great numbers is probably a myth. Employees of UCD? Yes    .

    Talk to students, they do not agree with this. I spoke with a former UCD student body representative a couple of years ago who said that this is a major problem, that UCD is slowly taking on the characteristics of a commuter school for a lot of them. Lamar Heystek participated in this conversation, and he agreed.

    I haven’t done a demographic survey, I don’t know who’s right and who’s wrong, but I can give you an anecdotal story. I was coming back from the Bay Area about 1am on Saturday night in the late 1990s, and stopped off at the IHOP in Dixon about 8 to 10 miles away. The place was packed with students, some studying. I find it hard to believe that they lived in Davis, and that was the late 1990s.

    –Richard Estes

  54. “…that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?”

    There are probably far more students living in Davis, in apartments, than in all those other communities. The student population of Dixon is very small. Thousands of students live in apartment complexes in South Davis, West Davis, and all along Sycamore extending into North Davis. Students live in duplexes, lower-cost homes, and various apartment complexes in East Davis.
    The notion that students are heading out of town for affordable housing in great numbers is probably a myth. Employees of UCD? Yes    .

    Talk to students, they do not agree with this. I spoke with a former UCD student body representative a couple of years ago who said that this is a major problem, that UCD is slowly taking on the characteristics of a commuter school for a lot of them. Lamar Heystek participated in this conversation, and he agreed.

    I haven’t done a demographic survey, I don’t know who’s right and who’s wrong, but I can give you an anecdotal story. I was coming back from the Bay Area about 1am on Saturday night in the late 1990s, and stopped off at the IHOP in Dixon about 8 to 10 miles away. The place was packed with students, some studying. I find it hard to believe that they lived in Davis, and that was the late 1990s.

    –Richard Estes

  55. “…that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?”

    There are probably far more students living in Davis, in apartments, than in all those other communities. The student population of Dixon is very small. Thousands of students live in apartment complexes in South Davis, West Davis, and all along Sycamore extending into North Davis. Students live in duplexes, lower-cost homes, and various apartment complexes in East Davis.
    The notion that students are heading out of town for affordable housing in great numbers is probably a myth. Employees of UCD? Yes    .

    Talk to students, they do not agree with this. I spoke with a former UCD student body representative a couple of years ago who said that this is a major problem, that UCD is slowly taking on the characteristics of a commuter school for a lot of them. Lamar Heystek participated in this conversation, and he agreed.

    I haven’t done a demographic survey, I don’t know who’s right and who’s wrong, but I can give you an anecdotal story. I was coming back from the Bay Area about 1am on Saturday night in the late 1990s, and stopped off at the IHOP in Dixon about 8 to 10 miles away. The place was packed with students, some studying. I find it hard to believe that they lived in Davis, and that was the late 1990s.

    –Richard Estes

  56. “…that would arrest the flight of students to Dixon, Woodland and West Sacramento to live?”

    There are probably far more students living in Davis, in apartments, than in all those other communities. The student population of Dixon is very small. Thousands of students live in apartment complexes in South Davis, West Davis, and all along Sycamore extending into North Davis. Students live in duplexes, lower-cost homes, and various apartment complexes in East Davis.
    The notion that students are heading out of town for affordable housing in great numbers is probably a myth. Employees of UCD? Yes    .

    Talk to students, they do not agree with this. I spoke with a former UCD student body representative a couple of years ago who said that this is a major problem, that UCD is slowly taking on the characteristics of a commuter school for a lot of them. Lamar Heystek participated in this conversation, and he agreed.

    I haven’t done a demographic survey, I don’t know who’s right and who’s wrong, but I can give you an anecdotal story. I was coming back from the Bay Area about 1am on Saturday night in the late 1990s, and stopped off at the IHOP in Dixon about 8 to 10 miles away. The place was packed with students, some studying. I find it hard to believe that they lived in Davis, and that was the late 1990s.

    –Richard Estes

  57. Richard:

    You bring up another problem that we’ve had in Davis–there are not many places that are open late for students to study. When Cecilia was a student in the early to mid 90s Lyons was open 24 hours, now Lyons no longer exists. I have had to go to Dixon numerous times in the last year after midnight because nothing is open in Davis.

  58. Richard:

    You bring up another problem that we’ve had in Davis–there are not many places that are open late for students to study. When Cecilia was a student in the early to mid 90s Lyons was open 24 hours, now Lyons no longer exists. I have had to go to Dixon numerous times in the last year after midnight because nothing is open in Davis.

  59. Richard:

    You bring up another problem that we’ve had in Davis–there are not many places that are open late for students to study. When Cecilia was a student in the early to mid 90s Lyons was open 24 hours, now Lyons no longer exists. I have had to go to Dixon numerous times in the last year after midnight because nothing is open in Davis.

  60. Richard:

    You bring up another problem that we’ve had in Davis–there are not many places that are open late for students to study. When Cecilia was a student in the early to mid 90s Lyons was open 24 hours, now Lyons no longer exists. I have had to go to Dixon numerous times in the last year after midnight because nothing is open in Davis.

  61. “The first proposal under this new zoning ordinance went before the Davis Planning Commission on Wednesday evening.”

    I’m not sure why this was the first 3rd & B project to go before the Planning Commission. It was the second one reviewed by my commission, Historical Resources Management.

    While it is true that we unanimously rejected 233 B Street — it may have many nice features about it, but it does not come close to meeting the Design Guidelines and no one on the Planning Commission could say with a straight face that it did — we unanimously supported the first project to come before the HRMC at 311-315 B Street.

    The idea — espoused unfortunately by some members of the Planning Commission — that HRMC would not approve anything and therefore our advice could be overlooked is completely wrong. When the Aiken project, which we approved, is built, it will be compatible with the neighborhood and it will be attractive. On the downside, alas, the Aiken project is very dense (as is the Ogrydziak project) and will not allow for much open space or tree canopy, other than the sycamores which already line the street.

  62. “The first proposal under this new zoning ordinance went before the Davis Planning Commission on Wednesday evening.”

    I’m not sure why this was the first 3rd & B project to go before the Planning Commission. It was the second one reviewed by my commission, Historical Resources Management.

    While it is true that we unanimously rejected 233 B Street — it may have many nice features about it, but it does not come close to meeting the Design Guidelines and no one on the Planning Commission could say with a straight face that it did — we unanimously supported the first project to come before the HRMC at 311-315 B Street.

    The idea — espoused unfortunately by some members of the Planning Commission — that HRMC would not approve anything and therefore our advice could be overlooked is completely wrong. When the Aiken project, which we approved, is built, it will be compatible with the neighborhood and it will be attractive. On the downside, alas, the Aiken project is very dense (as is the Ogrydziak project) and will not allow for much open space or tree canopy, other than the sycamores which already line the street.

  63. “The first proposal under this new zoning ordinance went before the Davis Planning Commission on Wednesday evening.”

    I’m not sure why this was the first 3rd & B project to go before the Planning Commission. It was the second one reviewed by my commission, Historical Resources Management.

    While it is true that we unanimously rejected 233 B Street — it may have many nice features about it, but it does not come close to meeting the Design Guidelines and no one on the Planning Commission could say with a straight face that it did — we unanimously supported the first project to come before the HRMC at 311-315 B Street.

    The idea — espoused unfortunately by some members of the Planning Commission — that HRMC would not approve anything and therefore our advice could be overlooked is completely wrong. When the Aiken project, which we approved, is built, it will be compatible with the neighborhood and it will be attractive. On the downside, alas, the Aiken project is very dense (as is the Ogrydziak project) and will not allow for much open space or tree canopy, other than the sycamores which already line the street.

  64. “The first proposal under this new zoning ordinance went before the Davis Planning Commission on Wednesday evening.”

    I’m not sure why this was the first 3rd & B project to go before the Planning Commission. It was the second one reviewed by my commission, Historical Resources Management.

    While it is true that we unanimously rejected 233 B Street — it may have many nice features about it, but it does not come close to meeting the Design Guidelines and no one on the Planning Commission could say with a straight face that it did — we unanimously supported the first project to come before the HRMC at 311-315 B Street.

    The idea — espoused unfortunately by some members of the Planning Commission — that HRMC would not approve anything and therefore our advice could be overlooked is completely wrong. When the Aiken project, which we approved, is built, it will be compatible with the neighborhood and it will be attractive. On the downside, alas, the Aiken project is very dense (as is the Ogrydziak project) and will not allow for much open space or tree canopy, other than the sycamores which already line the street.

  65. “I don’t get it. You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live.”

    This is an ignorant comment. The 3rd & B redevelopment projects are removing what is currently student housing right next to campus and replacing them with owner/occupied high end townhouses-condominiums.

  66. “I don’t get it. You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live.”

    This is an ignorant comment. The 3rd & B redevelopment projects are removing what is currently student housing right next to campus and replacing them with owner/occupied high end townhouses-condominiums.

  67. “I don’t get it. You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live.”

    This is an ignorant comment. The 3rd & B redevelopment projects are removing what is currently student housing right next to campus and replacing them with owner/occupied high end townhouses-condominiums.

  68. “I don’t get it. You want more students to boost the tax base yet you don’t want to provide them places to live.”

    This is an ignorant comment. The 3rd & B redevelopment projects are removing what is currently student housing right next to campus and replacing them with owner/occupied high end townhouses-condominiums.

  69. “…will not allow for much open space or tree canopy….”
    They’ll have to plant a lot of Bay laurels, Capital pears, and fastigiate hornbeams. I hope someone is checking the landscape plans.

  70. “…will not allow for much open space or tree canopy….”
    They’ll have to plant a lot of Bay laurels, Capital pears, and fastigiate hornbeams. I hope someone is checking the landscape plans.

  71. “…will not allow for much open space or tree canopy….”
    They’ll have to plant a lot of Bay laurels, Capital pears, and fastigiate hornbeams. I hope someone is checking the landscape plans.

  72. “…will not allow for much open space or tree canopy….”
    They’ll have to plant a lot of Bay laurels, Capital pears, and fastigiate hornbeams. I hope someone is checking the landscape plans.

  73. “is the purpose of the project to import more upper middle income people into Davis, or is it to provide housing for students and people in the city who can’t otherwise afford to live there?”

    These units will sell for at least $500,000 each. I would not be surprised if they are much more. They are designed — per the Design Guidelines — to NOT BE STUDENT RENTALS.

    The Ogrydziak project has four units. All are 3 stories tall and all have garden spaces not included in the square footage. The first unit is 1,312 s.f. plus a 120 sf deck and a 2 car garage. The second is 1.480 sf with a 2 car garage and a 108 sf deck. Unit 3 is 1,585 sf plus a 130 sf deck and a 1 car garage plus another parking space. Finally, Unit 4 is 1,650 sf with a 255 sf deck and a 2 car garage.

  74. “is the purpose of the project to import more upper middle income people into Davis, or is it to provide housing for students and people in the city who can’t otherwise afford to live there?”

    These units will sell for at least $500,000 each. I would not be surprised if they are much more. They are designed — per the Design Guidelines — to NOT BE STUDENT RENTALS.

    The Ogrydziak project has four units. All are 3 stories tall and all have garden spaces not included in the square footage. The first unit is 1,312 s.f. plus a 120 sf deck and a 2 car garage. The second is 1.480 sf with a 2 car garage and a 108 sf deck. Unit 3 is 1,585 sf plus a 130 sf deck and a 1 car garage plus another parking space. Finally, Unit 4 is 1,650 sf with a 255 sf deck and a 2 car garage.

  75. “is the purpose of the project to import more upper middle income people into Davis, or is it to provide housing for students and people in the city who can’t otherwise afford to live there?”

    These units will sell for at least $500,000 each. I would not be surprised if they are much more. They are designed — per the Design Guidelines — to NOT BE STUDENT RENTALS.

    The Ogrydziak project has four units. All are 3 stories tall and all have garden spaces not included in the square footage. The first unit is 1,312 s.f. plus a 120 sf deck and a 2 car garage. The second is 1.480 sf with a 2 car garage and a 108 sf deck. Unit 3 is 1,585 sf plus a 130 sf deck and a 1 car garage plus another parking space. Finally, Unit 4 is 1,650 sf with a 255 sf deck and a 2 car garage.

  76. “is the purpose of the project to import more upper middle income people into Davis, or is it to provide housing for students and people in the city who can’t otherwise afford to live there?”

    These units will sell for at least $500,000 each. I would not be surprised if they are much more. They are designed — per the Design Guidelines — to NOT BE STUDENT RENTALS.

    The Ogrydziak project has four units. All are 3 stories tall and all have garden spaces not included in the square footage. The first unit is 1,312 s.f. plus a 120 sf deck and a 2 car garage. The second is 1.480 sf with a 2 car garage and a 108 sf deck. Unit 3 is 1,585 sf plus a 130 sf deck and a 1 car garage plus another parking space. Finally, Unit 4 is 1,650 sf with a 255 sf deck and a 2 car garage.

  81. Rooftop gardens with flat top roofs? Ugh! It would be nice to see what this proposal looks like, but from the description, it sounds awful. As for the Davis Food Co-Op, yuck! Davis could take a lesson from Woodland, and start making more of an effort to pay attention to integrating the architecture to make it blend, not stand out like an eyesore. Kudos to the Planning Commission for turning this project down. I dare the City Council to approve it as is!

  82. Rooftop gardens with flat top roofs? Ugh! It would be nice to see what this proposal looks like, but from the description, it sounds awful. As for the Davis Food Co-Op, yuck! Davis could take a lesson from Woodland, and start making more of an effort to pay attention to integrating the architecture to make it blend, not stand out like an eyesore. Kudos to the Planning Commission for turning this project down. I dare the City Council to approve it as is!

  83. Rooftop gardens with flat top roofs? Ugh! It would be nice to see what this proposal looks like, but from the description, it sounds awful. As for the Davis Food Co-Op, yuck! Davis could take a lesson from Woodland, and start making more of an effort to pay attention to integrating the architecture to make it blend, not stand out like an eyesore. Kudos to the Planning Commission for turning this project down. I dare the City Council to approve it as is!

  84. Rooftop gardens with flat top roofs? Ugh! It would be nice to see what this proposal looks like, but from the description, it sounds awful. As for the Davis Food Co-Op, yuck! Davis could take a lesson from Woodland, and start making more of an effort to pay attention to integrating the architecture to make it blend, not stand out like an eyesore. Kudos to the Planning Commission for turning this project down. I dare the City Council to approve it as is!

  89. My concern with this project is that I do not want the domino effect to go down B street. While I understand that densification is a logical alternative to sprawl one thing I do not want to see is our downtown turned into Anywhere USA. We shouldn’t just through our history to the wayside and I worry that the 3rd and B revisioning is going to, for lack of a better word, make the neighborhood boring.

    Now my friend Kemble spoke at the planning commission saying this project was innovative – probably because of the green roofs. But I look at the project and see that the green roofs were somewhat of an afterthought as the access plan has not been thought thru. Also, I think we need more zero landscaping to curb our water use – having to water your roof in the summer, now that isn’t conservation. Solar panels on the roofs of those four buildings would make more sense but the green roofs call for flat roofs, which is an excuse to make it boxier and bigger.

    This project will be approved. The votes are there on the council. I just want to see the most well thought out project go thru. And I also want to see what the plans are for 241 B as the new buildings on 233 B go right up to the property line so we should know how cohesive the plans are going to be or if, much life access to the green roofs, that hasn’t been thought all the way thru yet.

  90. My concern with this project is that I do not want the domino effect to go down B street. While I understand that densification is a logical alternative to sprawl one thing I do not want to see is our downtown turned into Anywhere USA. We shouldn’t just through our history to the wayside and I worry that the 3rd and B revisioning is going to, for lack of a better word, make the neighborhood boring.

    Now my friend Kemble spoke at the planning commission saying this project was innovative – probably because of the green roofs. But I look at the project and see that the green roofs were somewhat of an afterthought as the access plan has not been thought thru. Also, I think we need more zero landscaping to curb our water use – having to water your roof in the summer, now that isn’t conservation. Solar panels on the roofs of those four buildings would make more sense but the green roofs call for flat roofs, which is an excuse to make it boxier and bigger.

    This project will be approved. The votes are there on the council. I just want to see the most well thought out project go thru. And I also want to see what the plans are for 241 B as the new buildings on 233 B go right up to the property line so we should know how cohesive the plans are going to be or if, much life access to the green roofs, that hasn’t been thought all the way thru yet.

  91. My concern with this project is that I do not want the domino effect to go down B street. While I understand that densification is a logical alternative to sprawl one thing I do not want to see is our downtown turned into Anywhere USA. We shouldn’t just through our history to the wayside and I worry that the 3rd and B revisioning is going to, for lack of a better word, make the neighborhood boring.

    Now my friend Kemble spoke at the planning commission saying this project was innovative – probably because of the green roofs. But I look at the project and see that the green roofs were somewhat of an afterthought as the access plan has not been thought thru. Also, I think we need more zero landscaping to curb our water use – having to water your roof in the summer, now that isn’t conservation. Solar panels on the roofs of those four buildings would make more sense but the green roofs call for flat roofs, which is an excuse to make it boxier and bigger.

    This project will be approved. The votes are there on the council. I just want to see the most well thought out project go thru. And I also want to see what the plans are for 241 B as the new buildings on 233 B go right up to the property line so we should know how cohesive the plans are going to be or if, much life access to the green roofs, that hasn’t been thought all the way thru yet.

  92. My concern with this project is that I do not want the domino effect to go down B street. While I understand that densification is a logical alternative to sprawl one thing I do not want to see is our downtown turned into Anywhere USA. We shouldn’t just through our history to the wayside and I worry that the 3rd and B revisioning is going to, for lack of a better word, make the neighborhood boring.

    Now my friend Kemble spoke at the planning commission saying this project was innovative – probably because of the green roofs. But I look at the project and see that the green roofs were somewhat of an afterthought as the access plan has not been thought thru. Also, I think we need more zero landscaping to curb our water use – having to water your roof in the summer, now that isn’t conservation. Solar panels on the roofs of those four buildings would make more sense but the green roofs call for flat roofs, which is an excuse to make it boxier and bigger.

    This project will be approved. The votes are there on the council. I just want to see the most well thought out project go thru. And I also want to see what the plans are for 241 B as the new buildings on 233 B go right up to the property line so we should know how cohesive the plans are going to be or if, much life access to the green roofs, that hasn’t been thought all the way thru yet.

  97. Woodland is carefully integrating new buildings with old, because the old buildings there actually have character and appeal. The old Victorians are beautiful, and Woodland has some really nice old neighborhoods. Davis has a bunch of hodgepodge, inconsistent,boring architecture. While limiting growth and being careful in what gets built makes some sense, the argument that we want preserve the architectural flavor of Davis and its neighborhoods doesn’t make sense to me. It’s already ugly and mismatched. Anything new will have a hard time making it look worse.

  98. Woodland is carefully integrating new buildings with old, because the old buildings there actually have character and appeal. The old Victorians are beautiful, and Woodland has some really nice old neighborhoods. Davis has a bunch of hodgepodge, inconsistent,boring architecture. While limiting growth and being careful in what gets built makes some sense, the argument that we want preserve the architectural flavor of Davis and its neighborhoods doesn’t make sense to me. It’s already ugly and mismatched. Anything new will have a hard time making it look worse.

  99. Woodland is carefully integrating new buildings with old, because the old buildings there actually have character and appeal. The old Victorians are beautiful, and Woodland has some really nice old neighborhoods. Davis has a bunch of hodgepodge, inconsistent,boring architecture. While limiting growth and being careful in what gets built makes some sense, the argument that we want preserve the architectural flavor of Davis and its neighborhoods doesn’t make sense to me. It’s already ugly and mismatched. Anything new will have a hard time making it look worse.

  100. Woodland is carefully integrating new buildings with old, because the old buildings there actually have character and appeal. The old Victorians are beautiful, and Woodland has some really nice old neighborhoods. Davis has a bunch of hodgepodge, inconsistent,boring architecture. While limiting growth and being careful in what gets built makes some sense, the argument that we want preserve the architectural flavor of Davis and its neighborhoods doesn’t make sense to me. It’s already ugly and mismatched. Anything new will have a hard time making it look worse.

  101. I don’t think many students are living in communities outside of Davis, but in a sense UCD has become a commuter campus. Many of the apartment complexes students live in are relatively far from campus. And by far, I mean inconvenient for walking and biking.

    And as Rich pointed out, the 3rd and B housing is not for students, thus there will be less student housing close to campus.

    The city should be thinking about providing and sustaining close-to-campus student housing in order to promote walking and biking. This reduces traffic, the need for parking, healthier lives and lowers use of gas locally.

    And yes that architect’s designs are not pretty.

  102. I don’t think many students are living in communities outside of Davis, but in a sense UCD has become a commuter campus. Many of the apartment complexes students live in are relatively far from campus. And by far, I mean inconvenient for walking and biking.

    And as Rich pointed out, the 3rd and B housing is not for students, thus there will be less student housing close to campus.

    The city should be thinking about providing and sustaining close-to-campus student housing in order to promote walking and biking. This reduces traffic, the need for parking, healthier lives and lowers use of gas locally.

    And yes that architect’s designs are not pretty.

  103. I don’t think many students are living in communities outside of Davis, but in a sense UCD has become a commuter campus. Many of the apartment complexes students live in are relatively far from campus. And by far, I mean inconvenient for walking and biking.

    And as Rich pointed out, the 3rd and B housing is not for students, thus there will be less student housing close to campus.

    The city should be thinking about providing and sustaining close-to-campus student housing in order to promote walking and biking. This reduces traffic, the need for parking, healthier lives and lowers use of gas locally.

    And yes that architect’s designs are not pretty.

  104. I don’t think many students are living in communities outside of Davis, but in a sense UCD has become a commuter campus. Many of the apartment complexes students live in are relatively far from campus. And by far, I mean inconvenient for walking and biking.

    And as Rich pointed out, the 3rd and B housing is not for students, thus there will be less student housing close to campus.

    The city should be thinking about providing and sustaining close-to-campus student housing in order to promote walking and biking. This reduces traffic, the need for parking, healthier lives and lowers use of gas locally.

    And yes that architect’s designs are not pretty.

  105. Rob, Kemble Pope and others who support sprawl projects are not true environmentalists. Look at actions versus words and you’ll see the contradiction. Soza and Saylor, and Ruth say they promote slow growth, but their actions speak otherwise. Again there is contradiction.

  106. Rob, Kemble Pope and others who support sprawl projects are not true environmentalists. Look at actions versus words and you’ll see the contradiction. Soza and Saylor, and Ruth say they promote slow growth, but their actions speak otherwise. Again there is contradiction.

  107. Rob, Kemble Pope and others who support sprawl projects are not true environmentalists. Look at actions versus words and you’ll see the contradiction. Soza and Saylor, and Ruth say they promote slow growth, but their actions speak otherwise. Again there is contradiction.

  108. Rob, Kemble Pope and others who support sprawl projects are not true environmentalists. Look at actions versus words and you’ll see the contradiction. Soza and Saylor, and Ruth say they promote slow growth, but their actions speak otherwise. Again there is contradiction.

  109. I noticed zero landscaping on K,L, and M streets while precinct walking for Cecilia and Rob. Some home owners are planting great plants that require less water than traditional lawns.

  110. I noticed zero landscaping on K,L, and M streets while precinct walking for Cecilia and Rob. Some home owners are planting great plants that require less water than traditional lawns.

  111. I noticed zero landscaping on K,L, and M streets while precinct walking for Cecilia and Rob. Some home owners are planting great plants that require less water than traditional lawns.

  112. I noticed zero landscaping on K,L, and M streets while precinct walking for Cecilia and Rob. Some home owners are planting great plants that require less water than traditional lawns.

  113. Don – I’m not really a big fan of lawns. I prefer drought tolerant landscaping since this isn’t really the wettest part of the world. Having to water your roof given our water needs is not something I find attractive. In Seattle, these types of houses make more sense.

    And to anonymous 2:10. I know Kemble has supported a lot of projects that I disagree with but that shouldn’t prevent me from saying “my friend Kemble” because I have known him in a social setting for quite some time. And even though I am very skeptical of the project I won’t say it isn’t innovative. It may not be the best or most environmentally friendly innovation but marketing the project as green by painting the roofs green on the design is certainly “innovative.”

    I will say this though. The project will be approved because the votes are there on the council, where it will eventually be appealed to, so it is good to call for modifications to fit the standards of the neighborhood and I also think solar panels are a good way to go because those roofs will get a lot of sunshine and I prefer the glisten of solar panels to the dull yellow of dead grass in the summer.

  114. Don – I’m not really a big fan of lawns. I prefer drought tolerant landscaping since this isn’t really the wettest part of the world. Having to water your roof given our water needs is not something I find attractive. In Seattle, these types of houses make more sense.

    And to anonymous 2:10. I know Kemble has supported a lot of projects that I disagree with but that shouldn’t prevent me from saying “my friend Kemble” because I have known him in a social setting for quite some time. And even though I am very skeptical of the project I won’t say it isn’t innovative. It may not be the best or most environmentally friendly innovation but marketing the project as green by painting the roofs green on the design is certainly “innovative.”

    I will say this though. The project will be approved because the votes are there on the council, where it will eventually be appealed to, so it is good to call for modifications to fit the standards of the neighborhood and I also think solar panels are a good way to go because those roofs will get a lot of sunshine and I prefer the glisten of solar panels to the dull yellow of dead grass in the summer.

  115. Don – I’m not really a big fan of lawns. I prefer drought tolerant landscaping since this isn’t really the wettest part of the world. Having to water your roof given our water needs is not something I find attractive. In Seattle, these types of houses make more sense.

    And to anonymous 2:10. I know Kemble has supported a lot of projects that I disagree with but that shouldn’t prevent me from saying “my friend Kemble” because I have known him in a social setting for quite some time. And even though I am very skeptical of the project I won’t say it isn’t innovative. It may not be the best or most environmentally friendly innovation but marketing the project as green by painting the roofs green on the design is certainly “innovative.”

    I will say this though. The project will be approved because the votes are there on the council, where it will eventually be appealed to, so it is good to call for modifications to fit the standards of the neighborhood and I also think solar panels are a good way to go because those roofs will get a lot of sunshine and I prefer the glisten of solar panels to the dull yellow of dead grass in the summer.

  116. Don – I’m not really a big fan of lawns. I prefer drought tolerant landscaping since this isn’t really the wettest part of the world. Having to water your roof given our water needs is not something I find attractive. In Seattle, these types of houses make more sense.

    And to anonymous 2:10. I know Kemble has supported a lot of projects that I disagree with but that shouldn’t prevent me from saying “my friend Kemble” because I have known him in a social setting for quite some time. And even though I am very skeptical of the project I won’t say it isn’t innovative. It may not be the best or most environmentally friendly innovation but marketing the project as green by painting the roofs green on the design is certainly “innovative.”

    I will say this though. The project will be approved because the votes are there on the council, where it will eventually be appealed to, so it is good to call for modifications to fit the standards of the neighborhood and I also think solar panels are a good way to go because those roofs will get a lot of sunshine and I prefer the glisten of solar panels to the dull yellow of dead grass in the summer.

  121. “Rich,

    Is there a place online where we can see the plans?”

    I’m not sure. Before we heard this project on the HRMC, each of us was given a full set of floor plans and elevations. My guess is if you contact Mike Webb, the staff liaison to the Planning Commission, he can help you out.

  122. “Rich,

    Is there a place online where we can see the plans?”

    I’m not sure. Before we heard this project on the HRMC, each of us was given a full set of floor plans and elevations. My guess is if you contact Mike Webb, the staff liaison to the Planning Commission, he can help you out.

  123. “Rich,

    Is there a place online where we can see the plans?”

    I’m not sure. Before we heard this project on the HRMC, each of us was given a full set of floor plans and elevations. My guess is if you contact Mike Webb, the staff liaison to the Planning Commission, he can help you out.

  124. “Rich,

    Is there a place online where we can see the plans?”

    I’m not sure. Before we heard this project on the HRMC, each of us was given a full set of floor plans and elevations. My guess is if you contact Mike Webb, the staff liaison to the Planning Commission, he can help you out.

  125. Anon 2:27 yes I did read that. He has his reasoning. He has his politics and they are different from mine. I fight for the grassroots underdog and Kemble works for the funded frontrunners – that doesn’t mean we can’t share a beer here or there. I’m a passionate guy, somewhat stubborn, and not afraid to take unpopular positions so long as I believe they are correct. So if I could only be friends with people that agreed with me on every topic then I wouldn’t have any friends. It is healthy to be social with those that aren’t your carbon political copies – it adds to the city’s diversity.

  126. Anon 2:27 yes I did read that. He has his reasoning. He has his politics and they are different from mine. I fight for the grassroots underdog and Kemble works for the funded frontrunners – that doesn’t mean we can’t share a beer here or there. I’m a passionate guy, somewhat stubborn, and not afraid to take unpopular positions so long as I believe they are correct. So if I could only be friends with people that agreed with me on every topic then I wouldn’t have any friends. It is healthy to be social with those that aren’t your carbon political copies – it adds to the city’s diversity.

  127. Anon 2:27 yes I did read that. He has his reasoning. He has his politics and they are different from mine. I fight for the grassroots underdog and Kemble works for the funded frontrunners – that doesn’t mean we can’t share a beer here or there. I’m a passionate guy, somewhat stubborn, and not afraid to take unpopular positions so long as I believe they are correct. So if I could only be friends with people that agreed with me on every topic then I wouldn’t have any friends. It is healthy to be social with those that aren’t your carbon political copies – it adds to the city’s diversity.

  128. Anon 2:27 yes I did read that. He has his reasoning. He has his politics and they are different from mine. I fight for the grassroots underdog and Kemble works for the funded frontrunners – that doesn’t mean we can’t share a beer here or there. I’m a passionate guy, somewhat stubborn, and not afraid to take unpopular positions so long as I believe they are correct. So if I could only be friends with people that agreed with me on every topic then I wouldn’t have any friends. It is healthy to be social with those that aren’t your carbon political copies – it adds to the city’s diversity.

  129. “Also, I think we need more zero landscaping to curb our water use -“

    “What do you mean by this, Rob?”

    Don,

    I think the word he was going for is xeriscaping, which (I’m sure Don knows this but for others) means landscaping in ways in which you don’t have to irrigate. That can include planting native vegetation; or it can be using rock gardens and so on that don’t include thirsty plants.

  130. “Also, I think we need more zero landscaping to curb our water use -“

    “What do you mean by this, Rob?”

    Don,

    I think the word he was going for is xeriscaping, which (I’m sure Don knows this but for others) means landscaping in ways in which you don’t have to irrigate. That can include planting native vegetation; or it can be using rock gardens and so on that don’t include thirsty plants.

  131. “Also, I think we need more zero landscaping to curb our water use -“

    “What do you mean by this, Rob?”

    Don,

    I think the word he was going for is xeriscaping, which (I’m sure Don knows this but for others) means landscaping in ways in which you don’t have to irrigate. That can include planting native vegetation; or it can be using rock gardens and so on that don’t include thirsty plants.

  132. “Also, I think we need more zero landscaping to curb our water use -“

    “What do you mean by this, Rob?”

    Don,

    I think the word he was going for is xeriscaping, which (I’m sure Don knows this but for others) means landscaping in ways in which you don’t have to irrigate. That can include planting native vegetation; or it can be using rock gardens and so on that don’t include thirsty plants.

  137. “Now my friend Kemble spoke at the planning commission saying this project was innovative – probably because of the green roofs. But I look at the project and see that the green roofs were somewhat of an afterthought as the access plan has not been thought thru.”

    No one on the HRMC objected to the Ogrydziak project more strenuously than I did (though it was found to be inconsistant with the design guidelines by a unanimous vote). However, Rob, I don’t think your comments here are right.

    I think this is an innovative project in a number of ways. Maria is employing a new insulated concrete construction method which produces R-48 walls. (I think she said the rooves would have an even higher R-factor.) In almost all respects, she was from the start trying to produce an environmentally sensitive building design, including her placement of windows and so on.

    Keep in mind that the footprint of each of these four buildings is not very big. As such, the roof and deck gardens will not be overly large. I believe the owners of each of the four units will have the option of putting in other vegetation or no vegetation at all, if that is their wish.

    As far as aesthetics go, it’s a very subjective call. I happen to like the Food Co-op design. I think it’s bright and clever and original. Compared with the mini-mall next to it, it’s a gem. Because the FC is set back from the street behind a tree-scaped parking lot, it doesn’t detract so much from the older homes on G Street, many of which are used for commerce.

    When I saw the drawings for 233 B Street, I did not like it so much aesthetically. Maria showed the concrete walls — which are not poured in forms, but instead sprayed on and smoothed to look like a plaster — in unpainted concrete gray. If they were colored nicely or stained in attractive color, I could see liking that style more.

    My complaint with this design she’s come up with is that it is inappropriate for an historic neighborhood — there are two Landmark Resource houses within 100 feet of it — and it completely misses the mark of the design guidelines passed by the city council and worked on by hundreds of citizen volunteers.

    In the HRMC meeting, I told her I thought this would be a fine design for an urban neighborhood, such as in West Oakland, where I lived in a live-work loft that had been a converted factory. Same thing in Emeryville. In Davis, there are a few places, such as on East 5th Street west of Pole Line and on East 2nd Street near some industrial buildings, where this kind of “urban box” would look okay. But not on B Street, surrounded by historic (and beautiful) old homes.

  138. “Now my friend Kemble spoke at the planning commission saying this project was innovative – probably because of the green roofs. But I look at the project and see that the green roofs were somewhat of an afterthought as the access plan has not been thought thru.”

    No one on the HRMC objected to the Ogrydziak project more strenuously than I did (though it was found to be inconsistant with the design guidelines by a unanimous vote). However, Rob, I don’t think your comments here are right.

    I think this is an innovative project in a number of ways. Maria is employing a new insulated concrete construction method which produces R-48 walls. (I think she said the rooves would have an even higher R-factor.) In almost all respects, she was from the start trying to produce an environmentally sensitive building design, including her placement of windows and so on.

    Keep in mind that the footprint of each of these four buildings is not very big. As such, the roof and deck gardens will not be overly large. I believe the owners of each of the four units will have the option of putting in other vegetation or no vegetation at all, if that is their wish.

    As far as aesthetics go, it’s a very subjective call. I happen to like the Food Co-op design. I think it’s bright and clever and original. Compared with the mini-mall next to it, it’s a gem. Because the FC is set back from the street behind a tree-scaped parking lot, it doesn’t detract so much from the older homes on G Street, many of which are used for commerce.

    When I saw the drawings for 233 B Street, I did not like it so much aesthetically. Maria showed the concrete walls — which are not poured in forms, but instead sprayed on and smoothed to look like a plaster — in unpainted concrete gray. If they were colored nicely or stained in attractive color, I could see liking that style more.

    My complaint with this design she’s come up with is that it is inappropriate for an historic neighborhood — there are two Landmark Resource houses within 100 feet of it — and it completely misses the mark of the design guidelines passed by the city council and worked on by hundreds of citizen volunteers.

    In the HRMC meeting, I told her I thought this would be a fine design for an urban neighborhood, such as in West Oakland, where I lived in a live-work loft that had been a converted factory. Same thing in Emeryville. In Davis, there are a few places, such as on East 5th Street west of Pole Line and on East 2nd Street near some industrial buildings, where this kind of “urban box” would look okay. But not on B Street, surrounded by historic (and beautiful) old homes.

  139. “Now my friend Kemble spoke at the planning commission saying this project was innovative – probably because of the green roofs. But I look at the project and see that the green roofs were somewhat of an afterthought as the access plan has not been thought thru.”

    No one on the HRMC objected to the Ogrydziak project more strenuously than I did (though it was found to be inconsistant with the design guidelines by a unanimous vote). However, Rob, I don’t think your comments here are right.

    I think this is an innovative project in a number of ways. Maria is employing a new insulated concrete construction method which produces R-48 walls. (I think she said the rooves would have an even higher R-factor.) In almost all respects, she was from the start trying to produce an environmentally sensitive building design, including her placement of windows and so on.

    Keep in mind that the footprint of each of these four buildings is not very big. As such, the roof and deck gardens will not be overly large. I believe the owners of each of the four units will have the option of putting in other vegetation or no vegetation at all, if that is their wish.

    As far as aesthetics go, it’s a very subjective call. I happen to like the Food Co-op design. I think it’s bright and clever and original. Compared with the mini-mall next to it, it’s a gem. Because the FC is set back from the street behind a tree-scaped parking lot, it doesn’t detract so much from the older homes on G Street, many of which are used for commerce.

    When I saw the drawings for 233 B Street, I did not like it so much aesthetically. Maria showed the concrete walls — which are not poured in forms, but instead sprayed on and smoothed to look like a plaster — in unpainted concrete gray. If they were colored nicely or stained in attractive color, I could see liking that style more.

    My complaint with this design she’s come up with is that it is inappropriate for an historic neighborhood — there are two Landmark Resource houses within 100 feet of it — and it completely misses the mark of the design guidelines passed by the city council and worked on by hundreds of citizen volunteers.

    In the HRMC meeting, I told her I thought this would be a fine design for an urban neighborhood, such as in West Oakland, where I lived in a live-work loft that had been a converted factory. Same thing in Emeryville. In Davis, there are a few places, such as on East 5th Street west of Pole Line and on East 2nd Street near some industrial buildings, where this kind of “urban box” would look okay. But not on B Street, surrounded by historic (and beautiful) old homes.

  140. “Now my friend Kemble spoke at the planning commission saying this project was innovative – probably because of the green roofs. But I look at the project and see that the green roofs were somewhat of an afterthought as the access plan has not been thought thru.”

    No one on the HRMC objected to the Ogrydziak project more strenuously than I did (though it was found to be inconsistant with the design guidelines by a unanimous vote). However, Rob, I don’t think your comments here are right.

    I think this is an innovative project in a number of ways. Maria is employing a new insulated concrete construction method which produces R-48 walls. (I think she said the rooves would have an even higher R-factor.) In almost all respects, she was from the start trying to produce an environmentally sensitive building design, including her placement of windows and so on.

    Keep in mind that the footprint of each of these four buildings is not very big. As such, the roof and deck gardens will not be overly large. I believe the owners of each of the four units will have the option of putting in other vegetation or no vegetation at all, if that is their wish.

    As far as aesthetics go, it’s a very subjective call. I happen to like the Food Co-op design. I think it’s bright and clever and original. Compared with the mini-mall next to it, it’s a gem. Because the FC is set back from the street behind a tree-scaped parking lot, it doesn’t detract so much from the older homes on G Street, many of which are used for commerce.

    When I saw the drawings for 233 B Street, I did not like it so much aesthetically. Maria showed the concrete walls — which are not poured in forms, but instead sprayed on and smoothed to look like a plaster — in unpainted concrete gray. If they were colored nicely or stained in attractive color, I could see liking that style more.

    My complaint with this design she’s come up with is that it is inappropriate for an historic neighborhood — there are two Landmark Resource houses within 100 feet of it — and it completely misses the mark of the design guidelines passed by the city council and worked on by hundreds of citizen volunteers.

    In the HRMC meeting, I told her I thought this would be a fine design for an urban neighborhood, such as in West Oakland, where I lived in a live-work loft that had been a converted factory. Same thing in Emeryville. In Davis, there are a few places, such as on East 5th Street west of Pole Line and on East 2nd Street near some industrial buildings, where this kind of “urban box” would look okay. But not on B Street, surrounded by historic (and beautiful) old homes.

  141. Rob,

    Friends can disagree, but the disrespct he showed you, Cecelia and Sue was uncalled for. It had a the ugliness that the Cabaldon camp exchanged with the Yamada camp. Don’t be fooled.

  142. Rob,

    Friends can disagree, but the disrespct he showed you, Cecelia and Sue was uncalled for. It had a the ugliness that the Cabaldon camp exchanged with the Yamada camp. Don’t be fooled.

  143. Rob,

    Friends can disagree, but the disrespct he showed you, Cecelia and Sue was uncalled for. It had a the ugliness that the Cabaldon camp exchanged with the Yamada camp. Don’t be fooled.

  144. Rob,

    Friends can disagree, but the disrespct he showed you, Cecelia and Sue was uncalled for. It had a the ugliness that the Cabaldon camp exchanged with the Yamada camp. Don’t be fooled.

  149. Rich, I agree that there is innovation in this project. I just worry if it is in the correct location (whether that means at its address in Davis or within the very climate of Davis). I like that there is experimentation going on but until we’re past the point of no return I’ll always keep asking for improvements of any project.

    And I agree with you on the stripmall next to the Co-Op. I would like to see some multi-story mixed used projects done in that location sometime within this generation.

  150. Rich, I agree that there is innovation in this project. I just worry if it is in the correct location (whether that means at its address in Davis or within the very climate of Davis). I like that there is experimentation going on but until we’re past the point of no return I’ll always keep asking for improvements of any project.

    And I agree with you on the stripmall next to the Co-Op. I would like to see some multi-story mixed used projects done in that location sometime within this generation.

  151. Rich, I agree that there is innovation in this project. I just worry if it is in the correct location (whether that means at its address in Davis or within the very climate of Davis). I like that there is experimentation going on but until we’re past the point of no return I’ll always keep asking for improvements of any project.

    And I agree with you on the stripmall next to the Co-Op. I would like to see some multi-story mixed used projects done in that location sometime within this generation.

  152. Rich, I agree that there is innovation in this project. I just worry if it is in the correct location (whether that means at its address in Davis or within the very climate of Davis). I like that there is experimentation going on but until we’re past the point of no return I’ll always keep asking for improvements of any project.

    And I agree with you on the stripmall next to the Co-Op. I would like to see some multi-story mixed used projects done in that location sometime within this generation.

  153. Don, I’m sorry for my Bushism. I meant Xeriscaping but had a brain-fart. Thank you Rich for correcting me.

    And Anon 3:47, I think of politics like religion. I want peace in the Middle East. I want coexistence in Northern Ireland. I want as all to get along. So either we’re part of the problem or part of the solution. Kemble, within a political context, may have written something I did not agree with but what does it benefit to shun everyone you differ with politically. For those of us that want to keep Davis a town with a strong community we have to take the high road and recognize that when you fight growth that means you’re more likely to run into folks you disagree with on the street or in social settings so you should at least be civil with them. And I’m not using the word ‘civil’ in the sense that when someone disagrees with you and loses their cool because they feel their community is being affronted, then they are being uncivil. I mean it in the sense of undestanding that opinions are like sphincters – just because we all have them doesn’t mean they always have to be blowing hot air so we should be able to endure and even enjoy the presence of people that occasional blow hot air you disagree with.

  154. Don, I’m sorry for my Bushism. I meant Xeriscaping but had a brain-fart. Thank you Rich for correcting me.

    And Anon 3:47, I think of politics like religion. I want peace in the Middle East. I want coexistence in Northern Ireland. I want as all to get along. So either we’re part of the problem or part of the solution. Kemble, within a political context, may have written something I did not agree with but what does it benefit to shun everyone you differ with politically. For those of us that want to keep Davis a town with a strong community we have to take the high road and recognize that when you fight growth that means you’re more likely to run into folks you disagree with on the street or in social settings so you should at least be civil with them. And I’m not using the word ‘civil’ in the sense that when someone disagrees with you and loses their cool because they feel their community is being affronted, then they are being uncivil. I mean it in the sense of undestanding that opinions are like sphincters – just because we all have them doesn’t mean they always have to be blowing hot air so we should be able to endure and even enjoy the presence of people that occasional blow hot air you disagree with.

  155. Don, I’m sorry for my Bushism. I meant Xeriscaping but had a brain-fart. Thank you Rich for correcting me.

    And Anon 3:47, I think of politics like religion. I want peace in the Middle East. I want coexistence in Northern Ireland. I want as all to get along. So either we’re part of the problem or part of the solution. Kemble, within a political context, may have written something I did not agree with but what does it benefit to shun everyone you differ with politically. For those of us that want to keep Davis a town with a strong community we have to take the high road and recognize that when you fight growth that means you’re more likely to run into folks you disagree with on the street or in social settings so you should at least be civil with them. And I’m not using the word ‘civil’ in the sense that when someone disagrees with you and loses their cool because they feel their community is being affronted, then they are being uncivil. I mean it in the sense of undestanding that opinions are like sphincters – just because we all have them doesn’t mean they always have to be blowing hot air so we should be able to endure and even enjoy the presence of people that occasional blow hot air you disagree with.

  156. Don, I’m sorry for my Bushism. I meant Xeriscaping but had a brain-fart. Thank you Rich for correcting me.

    And Anon 3:47, I think of politics like religion. I want peace in the Middle East. I want coexistence in Northern Ireland. I want as all to get along. So either we’re part of the problem or part of the solution. Kemble, within a political context, may have written something I did not agree with but what does it benefit to shun everyone you differ with politically. For those of us that want to keep Davis a town with a strong community we have to take the high road and recognize that when you fight growth that means you’re more likely to run into folks you disagree with on the street or in social settings so you should at least be civil with them. And I’m not using the word ‘civil’ in the sense that when someone disagrees with you and loses their cool because they feel their community is being affronted, then they are being uncivil. I mean it in the sense of undestanding that opinions are like sphincters – just because we all have them doesn’t mean they always have to be blowing hot air so we should be able to endure and even enjoy the presence of people that occasional blow hot air you disagree with.

  157. Just to clarify – Maria said that she designed the roofs to have the capability to be green roofs (roofs that have the capability of having plants grow directly on them) but indicated that she would not actually install it.

    Actually green roofs do not have to be flat. There is such a thing as a green wall that is completely vertical.

  158. Just to clarify – Maria said that she designed the roofs to have the capability to be green roofs (roofs that have the capability of having plants grow directly on them) but indicated that she would not actually install it.

    Actually green roofs do not have to be flat. There is such a thing as a green wall that is completely vertical.

  159. Just to clarify – Maria said that she designed the roofs to have the capability to be green roofs (roofs that have the capability of having plants grow directly on them) but indicated that she would not actually install it.

    Actually green roofs do not have to be flat. There is such a thing as a green wall that is completely vertical.

  160. Just to clarify – Maria said that she designed the roofs to have the capability to be green roofs (roofs that have the capability of having plants grow directly on them) but indicated that she would not actually install it.

    Actually green roofs do not have to be flat. There is such a thing as a green wall that is completely vertical.

  161. R.R. , The guy was taking down your signs, Sue’s signs and Cecelia’s signs. Taking the high road is good but don’t be naive. There’s a term known as a “political snake.”

  162. R.R. , The guy was taking down your signs, Sue’s signs and Cecelia’s signs. Taking the high road is good but don’t be naive. There’s a term known as a “political snake.”

  163. R.R. , The guy was taking down your signs, Sue’s signs and Cecelia’s signs. Taking the high road is good but don’t be naive. There’s a term known as a “political snake.”

  164. R.R. , The guy was taking down your signs, Sue’s signs and Cecelia’s signs. Taking the high road is good but don’t be naive. There’s a term known as a “political snake.”

  165. “R.R. , The guy was taking down your signs”

    I was told by a friend who lives by the cemetery that Eileen Samitz was seen taking down Souza signs along Pole Line Road.

  166. “R.R. , The guy was taking down your signs”

    I was told by a friend who lives by the cemetery that Eileen Samitz was seen taking down Souza signs along Pole Line Road.

  167. “R.R. , The guy was taking down your signs”

    I was told by a friend who lives by the cemetery that Eileen Samitz was seen taking down Souza signs along Pole Line Road.

  168. “R.R. , The guy was taking down your signs”

    I was told by a friend who lives by the cemetery that Eileen Samitz was seen taking down Souza signs along Pole Line Road.

  169. Eileen was probably taking down the signs from homes where Kemble put them up without the owners or renters permission. I know of four homes where this was the case. Two were student homes and two were not. They described Kemble’s tactics as that of a campaign bully. It doesn’t surprise me.

  170. Eileen was probably taking down the signs from homes where Kemble put them up without the owners or renters permission. I know of four homes where this was the case. Two were student homes and two were not. They described Kemble’s tactics as that of a campaign bully. It doesn’t surprise me.

  171. Eileen was probably taking down the signs from homes where Kemble put them up without the owners or renters permission. I know of four homes where this was the case. Two were student homes and two were not. They described Kemble’s tactics as that of a campaign bully. It doesn’t surprise me.

  172. Eileen was probably taking down the signs from homes where Kemble put them up without the owners or renters permission. I know of four homes where this was the case. Two were student homes and two were not. They described Kemble’s tactics as that of a campaign bully. It doesn’t surprise me.

  173. I was told by a friend who lives by the cemetery that Eileen Samitz was seen taking down Souza signs along Pole Line Road.

    It was Larry McFarland…

  174. I was told by a friend who lives by the cemetery that Eileen Samitz was seen taking down Souza signs along Pole Line Road.

    It was Larry McFarland…

  175. I was told by a friend who lives by the cemetery that Eileen Samitz was seen taking down Souza signs along Pole Line Road.

    It was Larry McFarland…

  176. I was told by a friend who lives by the cemetery that Eileen Samitz was seen taking down Souza signs along Pole Line Road.

    It was Larry McFarland…

  177. Larry McFarland was the vet school professor who murdered his children and his wife, killed himself and then burned down his house, which was the most important single family residence extant in Davis, the Chiles Mansion. It happened when I was a kid and of course it was the biggest story of the year in 1972.

    If you go out to the Simmons property east of the cemetery, you will see the old Chiles barn. That was near the house McFarland burned down.

    There was also another Chiles house — one I never saw — east of there, where Mace Ranch park now is. Unfortunately, Bruce Mace tore it down in the early 1950s when he built his house out there, which later became the Explorit Center.

  179. Larry McFarland was the vet school professor who murdered his children and his wife, killed himself and then burned down his house, which was the most important single family residence extant in Davis, the Chiles Mansion. It happened when I was a kid and of course it was the biggest story of the year in 1972.

    If you go out to the Simmons property east of the cemetery, you will see the old Chiles barn. That was near the house McFarland burned down.

    There was also another Chiles house — one I never saw — east of there, where Mace Ranch park now is. Unfortunately, Bruce Mace tore it down in the early 1950s when he built his house out there, which later became the Explorit Center.

  181. Larry McFarland was the vet school professor who murdered his children and his wife, killed himself and then burned down his house, which was the most important single family residence extant in Davis, the Chiles Mansion. It happened when I was a kid and of course it was the biggest story of the year in 1972.

    If you go out to the Simmons property east of the cemetery, you will see the old Chiles barn. That was near the house McFarland burned down.

    There was also another Chiles house — one I never saw — east of there, where Mace Ranch park now is. Unfortunately, Bruce Mace tore it down in the early 1950s when he built his house out there, which later became the Explorit Center.

  183. Larry McFarland was the vet school professor who murdered his children and his wife, killed himself and then burned down his house, which was the most important single family residence extant in Davis, the Chiles Mansion. It happened when I was a kid and of course it was the biggest story of the year in 1972.

    If you go out to the Simmons property east of the cemetery, you will see the old Chiles barn. That was near the house McFarland burned down.

    There was also another Chiles house — one I never saw — east of there, where Mace Ranch park now is. Unfortunately, Bruce Mace tore it down in the early 1950s when he built his house out there, which later became the Explorit Center.

  189. To All, The McFarland History,
    For those of you who don’t know. Dr. Larry Z. McFarland owned a small farm directly east of the cemetery. There was a large beautiful old home and huge barn and some other small structures. Dr. Larry McFarland lived there with his wife and 3 children, 2 boys and 1 daughter.
    Dr. McFarland, a Faculty Veterinarian at UCD, was a researcher. Dr. McFarland discovered the relationship between DDT, (diethyl-dichloro tetrachloro-ethane), and it’s effect on the thinning of the shells of the eggs of wild birds, which was decimating their populations.

    His research led to the banning of DDT as a very widely used insecticide. Dr. McFarland was also a most personable individual.

    Unfortunately Dr. McFarland had trouble at home. One night he shot his wife and two sons to death with a shotgun and then bludgeoned his daughter to death. He piled all their bodies on one bed upstairs, set fire to the house and shot himself to death on the same bed.

    Eileen Samitz never stole anything in her life, except my heart. Eileen should run for city council.

  190. To All, The McFarland History,
    For those of you who don’t know. Dr. Larry Z. McFarland owned a small farm directly east of the cemetery. There was a large beautiful old home and huge barn and some other small structures. Dr. Larry McFarland lived there with his wife and 3 children, 2 boys and 1 daughter.
    Dr. McFarland, a Faculty Veterinarian at UCD, was a researcher. Dr. McFarland discovered the relationship between DDT, (diethyl-dichloro tetrachloro-ethane), and it’s effect on the thinning of the shells of the eggs of wild birds, which was decimating their populations.

    His research led to the banning of DDT as a very widely used insecticide. Dr. McFarland was also a most personable individual.

    Unfortunately Dr. McFarland had trouble at home. One night he shot his wife and two sons to death with a shotgun and then bludgeoned his daughter to death. He piled all their bodies on one bed upstairs, set fire to the house and shot himself to death on the same bed.

    Eileen Samitz never stole anything in her life, except my heart. Eileen should run for city council.

  191. To All, The McFarland History,
    For those of you who don’t know. Dr. Larry Z. McFarland owned a small farm directly east of the cemetery. There was a large beautiful old home and huge barn and some other small structures. Dr. Larry McFarland lived there with his wife and 3 children, 2 boys and 1 daughter.
    Dr. McFarland, a Faculty Veterinarian at UCD, was a researcher. Dr. McFarland discovered the relationship between DDT, (diethyl-dichloro tetrachloro-ethane), and it’s effect on the thinning of the shells of the eggs of wild birds, which was decimating their populations.

    His research led to the banning of DDT as a very widely used insecticide. Dr. McFarland was also a most personable individual.

    Unfortunately Dr. McFarland had trouble at home. One night he shot his wife and two sons to death with a shotgun and then bludgeoned his daughter to death. He piled all their bodies on one bed upstairs, set fire to the house and shot himself to death on the same bed.

    Eileen Samitz never stole anything in her life, except my heart. Eileen should run for city council.

  192. To All, The McFarland History,
    For those of you who don’t know. Dr. Larry Z. McFarland owned a small farm directly east of the cemetery. There was a large beautiful old home and huge barn and some other small structures. Dr. Larry McFarland lived there with his wife and 3 children, 2 boys and 1 daughter.
    Dr. McFarland, a Faculty Veterinarian at UCD, was a researcher. Dr. McFarland discovered the relationship between DDT, (diethyl-dichloro tetrachloro-ethane), and it’s effect on the thinning of the shells of the eggs of wild birds, which was decimating their populations.

    His research led to the banning of DDT as a very widely used insecticide. Dr. McFarland was also a most personable individual.

    Unfortunately Dr. McFarland had trouble at home. One night he shot his wife and two sons to death with a shotgun and then bludgeoned his daughter to death. He piled all their bodies on one bed upstairs, set fire to the house and shot himself to death on the same bed.

    Eileen Samitz never stole anything in her life, except my heart. Eileen should run for city council.

  193. “One night he shot his wife and two sons to death with a shotgun and then bludgeoned his daughter to death.”

    Anon 9:15

    Just for the record, Dr. McFarland didn’t shoot his wife (or his daughter). Just as he did with Nina (9), who was 1 year older than I was, he beat his wife* to death, bashing her head in, before he shot himself.

    * Sonia McFarland’s mother was named Simmons, and that is why that property today is called the Simmons property.

  194. “One night he shot his wife and two sons to death with a shotgun and then bludgeoned his daughter to death.”

    Anon 9:15

    Just for the record, Dr. McFarland didn’t shoot his wife (or his daughter). Just as he did with Nina (9), who was 1 year older than I was, he beat his wife* to death, bashing her head in, before he shot himself.

    * Sonia McFarland’s mother was named Simmons, and that is why that property today is called the Simmons property.

  195. “One night he shot his wife and two sons to death with a shotgun and then bludgeoned his daughter to death.”

    Anon 9:15

    Just for the record, Dr. McFarland didn’t shoot his wife (or his daughter). Just as he did with Nina (9), who was 1 year older than I was, he beat his wife* to death, bashing her head in, before he shot himself.

    * Sonia McFarland’s mother was named Simmons, and that is why that property today is called the Simmons property.

  196. “One night he shot his wife and two sons to death with a shotgun and then bludgeoned his daughter to death.”

    Anon 9:15

    Just for the record, Dr. McFarland didn’t shoot his wife (or his daughter). Just as he did with Nina (9), who was 1 year older than I was, he beat his wife* to death, bashing her head in, before he shot himself.

    * Sonia McFarland’s mother was named Simmons, and that is why that property today is called the Simmons property.

  197. “Just for the record, Dr. McFarland didn’t shoot his wife (or his daughter). Just as he did with Nina (9), who was 1 year older than I was, he beat his wife* to death, bashing her head in, before he shot himself.”

    Do we really need all these gruesome details, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand? Good grief, is poor taste in style these days?

    Rob, I get your point about landscaping in such a way as to not require so much water. I hate the rooftop garden idea – to me it is nothing more than an attempt to make a low-class three story cement monstrosity “appear” as if a “penthouse suite” w garden. Yuck!

    Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown. It is my understanding that there are actually condos on the top floors selling for big bucks. Tell me this isn’t true? Who would pay substantial money to move into an ugly building across the street from a gas station? I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?

    The other problem I am having is that these new buildings have no setbacks, so that no greenery can be planted. Greenery always gives a fresh look, and produces oxygen and shade (if trees are planted), a desirable thing. The orange and gray bldg has no setbacks, so there is no possiblity of planting shrubbery or trees for shade. Ugh!!! Ugh!!! Ugh!!!

    Davis has become a mish-mash of architectural types, with no attempt at integration whatsoever. With a coat of fresh paint, and a few added furbelows, some integration could be attempted that couldn’t but help improve things. And someone who has some color sense should make the color choices. I’m sorry, but pea green for a store, or purple and maroon for an art center, or lime green, orange and purple for a shopping center is just plain horrible.

  198. “Just for the record, Dr. McFarland didn’t shoot his wife (or his daughter). Just as he did with Nina (9), who was 1 year older than I was, he beat his wife* to death, bashing her head in, before he shot himself.”

    Do we really need all these gruesome details, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand? Good grief, is poor taste in style these days?

    Rob, I get your point about landscaping in such a way as to not require so much water. I hate the rooftop garden idea – to me it is nothing more than an attempt to make a low-class three story cement monstrosity “appear” as if a “penthouse suite” w garden. Yuck!

    Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown. It is my understanding that there are actually condos on the top floors selling for big bucks. Tell me this isn’t true? Who would pay substantial money to move into an ugly building across the street from a gas station? I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?

    The other problem I am having is that these new buildings have no setbacks, so that no greenery can be planted. Greenery always gives a fresh look, and produces oxygen and shade (if trees are planted), a desirable thing. The orange and gray bldg has no setbacks, so there is no possiblity of planting shrubbery or trees for shade. Ugh!!! Ugh!!! Ugh!!!

    Davis has become a mish-mash of architectural types, with no attempt at integration whatsoever. With a coat of fresh paint, and a few added furbelows, some integration could be attempted that couldn’t but help improve things. And someone who has some color sense should make the color choices. I’m sorry, but pea green for a store, or purple and maroon for an art center, or lime green, orange and purple for a shopping center is just plain horrible.

  199. “Just for the record, Dr. McFarland didn’t shoot his wife (or his daughter). Just as he did with Nina (9), who was 1 year older than I was, he beat his wife* to death, bashing her head in, before he shot himself.”

    Do we really need all these gruesome details, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand? Good grief, is poor taste in style these days?

    Rob, I get your point about landscaping in such a way as to not require so much water. I hate the rooftop garden idea – to me it is nothing more than an attempt to make a low-class three story cement monstrosity “appear” as if a “penthouse suite” w garden. Yuck!

    Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown. It is my understanding that there are actually condos on the top floors selling for big bucks. Tell me this isn’t true? Who would pay substantial money to move into an ugly building across the street from a gas station? I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?

    The other problem I am having is that these new buildings have no setbacks, so that no greenery can be planted. Greenery always gives a fresh look, and produces oxygen and shade (if trees are planted), a desirable thing. The orange and gray bldg has no setbacks, so there is no possiblity of planting shrubbery or trees for shade. Ugh!!! Ugh!!! Ugh!!!

    Davis has become a mish-mash of architectural types, with no attempt at integration whatsoever. With a coat of fresh paint, and a few added furbelows, some integration could be attempted that couldn’t but help improve things. And someone who has some color sense should make the color choices. I’m sorry, but pea green for a store, or purple and maroon for an art center, or lime green, orange and purple for a shopping center is just plain horrible.

  200. “Just for the record, Dr. McFarland didn’t shoot his wife (or his daughter). Just as he did with Nina (9), who was 1 year older than I was, he beat his wife* to death, bashing her head in, before he shot himself.”

    Do we really need all these gruesome details, which are irrelevant to the topic at hand? Good grief, is poor taste in style these days?

    Rob, I get your point about landscaping in such a way as to not require so much water. I hate the rooftop garden idea – to me it is nothing more than an attempt to make a low-class three story cement monstrosity “appear” as if a “penthouse suite” w garden. Yuck!

    Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown. It is my understanding that there are actually condos on the top floors selling for big bucks. Tell me this isn’t true? Who would pay substantial money to move into an ugly building across the street from a gas station? I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?

    The other problem I am having is that these new buildings have no setbacks, so that no greenery can be planted. Greenery always gives a fresh look, and produces oxygen and shade (if trees are planted), a desirable thing. The orange and gray bldg has no setbacks, so there is no possiblity of planting shrubbery or trees for shade. Ugh!!! Ugh!!! Ugh!!!

    Davis has become a mish-mash of architectural types, with no attempt at integration whatsoever. With a coat of fresh paint, and a few added furbelows, some integration could be attempted that couldn’t but help improve things. And someone who has some color sense should make the color choices. I’m sorry, but pea green for a store, or purple and maroon for an art center, or lime green, orange and purple for a shopping center is just plain horrible.

  201. Actually, you can do a pitched roof and have some space for a “rooftop garden” if done correctly. The roof is pitched more steeply than normal, is ridged and forest green in color. This leaves a “walkway” on either side of the steeply pitched roof to have potted plants or a small patio table and chairs. Of course the sides of the building go a bit above the support system of the roof to form a walled in patio area so no one could fall over the side.

    ^
    /
    /
    /
    |___/__________|
    | |
    | |
    | |
    | |

    You get my drift!!! I’m not quite sure how roof access is obtained, but I am sure an architect would know. I have seen this done, but cannot for the life of me remember where or when.

  202. Actually, you can do a pitched roof and have some space for a “rooftop garden” if done correctly. The roof is pitched more steeply than normal, is ridged and forest green in color. This leaves a “walkway” on either side of the steeply pitched roof to have potted plants or a small patio table and chairs. Of course the sides of the building go a bit above the support system of the roof to form a walled in patio area so no one could fall over the side.

    ^
    /
    /
    /
    |___/__________|
    | |
    | |
    | |
    | |

    You get my drift!!! I’m not quite sure how roof access is obtained, but I am sure an architect would know. I have seen this done, but cannot for the life of me remember where or when.

  203. Actually, you can do a pitched roof and have some space for a “rooftop garden” if done correctly. The roof is pitched more steeply than normal, is ridged and forest green in color. This leaves a “walkway” on either side of the steeply pitched roof to have potted plants or a small patio table and chairs. Of course the sides of the building go a bit above the support system of the roof to form a walled in patio area so no one could fall over the side.

    ^
    /
    /
    /
    |___/__________|
    | |
    | |
    | |
    | |

    You get my drift!!! I’m not quite sure how roof access is obtained, but I am sure an architect would know. I have seen this done, but cannot for the life of me remember where or when.

  204. Actually, you can do a pitched roof and have some space for a “rooftop garden” if done correctly. The roof is pitched more steeply than normal, is ridged and forest green in color. This leaves a “walkway” on either side of the steeply pitched roof to have potted plants or a small patio table and chairs. Of course the sides of the building go a bit above the support system of the roof to form a walled in patio area so no one could fall over the side.

    ^
    /
    /
    /
    |___/__________|
    | |
    | |
    | |
    | |

    You get my drift!!! I’m not quite sure how roof access is obtained, but I am sure an architect would know. I have seen this done, but cannot for the life of me remember where or when.

  205. Sorry, my typed rendition didn’t come our correctly, but if anyone is interested, I’ll send DPD a sketch of what I am talking about.

  206. Sorry, my typed rendition didn’t come our correctly, but if anyone is interested, I’ll send DPD a sketch of what I am talking about.

  207. Sorry, my typed rendition didn’t come our correctly, but if anyone is interested, I’ll send DPD a sketch of what I am talking about.

  208. Sorry, my typed rendition didn’t come our correctly, but if anyone is interested, I’ll send DPD a sketch of what I am talking about.

  209. Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown. It is my understanding that there are actually condos on the top floors selling for big bucks. Tell me this isn’t true?

    > It’s true.

    Who would pay substantial money to move into an ugly building across the street from a gas station?

    > Long term: the gas station is going away and the lot will be developed.

    I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?

    > They are all sold.

  210. Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown. It is my understanding that there are actually condos on the top floors selling for big bucks. Tell me this isn’t true?

    > It’s true.

    Who would pay substantial money to move into an ugly building across the street from a gas station?

    > Long term: the gas station is going away and the lot will be developed.

    I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?

    > They are all sold.

  211. Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown. It is my understanding that there are actually condos on the top floors selling for big bucks. Tell me this isn’t true?

    > It’s true.

    Who would pay substantial money to move into an ugly building across the street from a gas station?

    > Long term: the gas station is going away and the lot will be developed.

    I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?

    > They are all sold.

  212. Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown. It is my understanding that there are actually condos on the top floors selling for big bucks. Tell me this isn’t true?

    > It’s true.

    Who would pay substantial money to move into an ugly building across the street from a gas station?

    > Long term: the gas station is going away and the lot will be developed.

    I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?

    > They are all sold.

  213. A green roof is not always accessible living space. A “thatched” roof that is actually living material is a green roof. It is build with waterproof material so that it doesn’t leak. A true green roof would not work in the Sacramento Valley due to its weather. It would do better in rainier climates, such as Seattle. Otherwise it would have to be watered many months out of the year, which is stupid for a three story building with a flat roof. If she is actually talking about a rooftop patio with containers for plants, then she should clarify this and use different terminology to make sure people understand just what she is proposing.

  214. A green roof is not always accessible living space. A “thatched” roof that is actually living material is a green roof. It is build with waterproof material so that it doesn’t leak. A true green roof would not work in the Sacramento Valley due to its weather. It would do better in rainier climates, such as Seattle. Otherwise it would have to be watered many months out of the year, which is stupid for a three story building with a flat roof. If she is actually talking about a rooftop patio with containers for plants, then she should clarify this and use different terminology to make sure people understand just what she is proposing.

  215. A green roof is not always accessible living space. A “thatched” roof that is actually living material is a green roof. It is build with waterproof material so that it doesn’t leak. A true green roof would not work in the Sacramento Valley due to its weather. It would do better in rainier climates, such as Seattle. Otherwise it would have to be watered many months out of the year, which is stupid for a three story building with a flat roof. If she is actually talking about a rooftop patio with containers for plants, then she should clarify this and use different terminology to make sure people understand just what she is proposing.

  216. A green roof is not always accessible living space. A “thatched” roof that is actually living material is a green roof. It is build with waterproof material so that it doesn’t leak. A true green roof would not work in the Sacramento Valley due to its weather. It would do better in rainier climates, such as Seattle. Otherwise it would have to be watered many months out of the year, which is stupid for a three story building with a flat roof. If she is actually talking about a rooftop patio with containers for plants, then she should clarify this and use different terminology to make sure people understand just what she is proposing.

  217. “Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown.”

    Nasty? Are you kidding? I think the Roe Building, which is on 5th Street, not on Russell Blvd, is very attractive. It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core. If you only compare the Roe Building with the USDA building, which is also new, you would have to be blind to not see that the RB is much better looking and more engaging.

    “The other problem I am having is that these new buildings have no setbacks, so that no greenery can be planted.”

    Because the RB is a commercial building on the ground floor with townhouse-condos above, it makes perfect sense to be right up against the street without setbacks. The older building next to it, at the corner of 5th and F Street also has no setbacks. That’s how commercial building are supposed to be.

    Unlike the 3rd & B projects, the Roe Building is not in a residential neighborhood set among houses. Further, it replaced an old gas station, which had no trees other than those right on the street, which remain in place.

    “I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?”

    They did have trouble selling them at first. However, I was told by one of the principals that the units have all now sold. Considering how bad this real estate market is, that proves there is demand for an urban owner occupied residence in the downtown.

  218. “Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown.”

    Nasty? Are you kidding? I think the Roe Building, which is on 5th Street, not on Russell Blvd, is very attractive. It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core. If you only compare the Roe Building with the USDA building, which is also new, you would have to be blind to not see that the RB is much better looking and more engaging.

    “The other problem I am having is that these new buildings have no setbacks, so that no greenery can be planted.”

    Because the RB is a commercial building on the ground floor with townhouse-condos above, it makes perfect sense to be right up against the street without setbacks. The older building next to it, at the corner of 5th and F Street also has no setbacks. That’s how commercial building are supposed to be.

    Unlike the 3rd & B projects, the Roe Building is not in a residential neighborhood set among houses. Further, it replaced an old gas station, which had no trees other than those right on the street, which remain in place.

    “I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?”

    They did have trouble selling them at first. However, I was told by one of the principals that the units have all now sold. Considering how bad this real estate market is, that proves there is demand for an urban owner occupied residence in the downtown.

  219. “Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown.”

    Nasty? Are you kidding? I think the Roe Building, which is on 5th Street, not on Russell Blvd, is very attractive. It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core. If you only compare the Roe Building with the USDA building, which is also new, you would have to be blind to not see that the RB is much better looking and more engaging.

    “The other problem I am having is that these new buildings have no setbacks, so that no greenery can be planted.”

    Because the RB is a commercial building on the ground floor with townhouse-condos above, it makes perfect sense to be right up against the street without setbacks. The older building next to it, at the corner of 5th and F Street also has no setbacks. That’s how commercial building are supposed to be.

    Unlike the 3rd & B projects, the Roe Building is not in a residential neighborhood set among houses. Further, it replaced an old gas station, which had no trees other than those right on the street, which remain in place.

    “I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?”

    They did have trouble selling them at first. However, I was told by one of the principals that the units have all now sold. Considering how bad this real estate market is, that proves there is demand for an urban owner occupied residence in the downtown.

  220. “Look at that nasty gray and orange building on Russell downtown.”

    Nasty? Are you kidding? I think the Roe Building, which is on 5th Street, not on Russell Blvd, is very attractive. It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core. If you only compare the Roe Building with the USDA building, which is also new, you would have to be blind to not see that the RB is much better looking and more engaging.

    “The other problem I am having is that these new buildings have no setbacks, so that no greenery can be planted.”

    Because the RB is a commercial building on the ground floor with townhouse-condos above, it makes perfect sense to be right up against the street without setbacks. The older building next to it, at the corner of 5th and F Street also has no setbacks. That’s how commercial building are supposed to be.

    Unlike the 3rd & B projects, the Roe Building is not in a residential neighborhood set among houses. Further, it replaced an old gas station, which had no trees other than those right on the street, which remain in place.

    “I heard the condos were not selling. Gee I wonder why?”

    They did have trouble selling them at first. However, I was told by one of the principals that the units have all now sold. Considering how bad this real estate market is, that proves there is demand for an urban owner occupied residence in the downtown.

  221. The Chen Building looks installed, as if interlocking Lego pieces were plugged into the hole where the Terminal Hotel and Antique Bizarre Building used to be.
    I highly doubt, considering the cheap materials and construction methods used, that the Chen Building will last nearly as long as the 80 years the Terminal Hotel Building was in existence.
    The Terminal Hotel Building was built with integrity in the context of its surroundings. The Chen Building imposes itself with an overbearing feel.

    Rich Rifkin:
    “It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core.”

  222. The Chen Building looks installed, as if interlocking Lego pieces were plugged into the hole where the Terminal Hotel and Antique Bizarre Building used to be.
    I highly doubt, considering the cheap materials and construction methods used, that the Chen Building will last nearly as long as the 80 years the Terminal Hotel Building was in existence.
    The Terminal Hotel Building was built with integrity in the context of its surroundings. The Chen Building imposes itself with an overbearing feel.

    Rich Rifkin:
    “It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core.”

  223. The Chen Building looks installed, as if interlocking Lego pieces were plugged into the hole where the Terminal Hotel and Antique Bizarre Building used to be.
    I highly doubt, considering the cheap materials and construction methods used, that the Chen Building will last nearly as long as the 80 years the Terminal Hotel Building was in existence.
    The Terminal Hotel Building was built with integrity in the context of its surroundings. The Chen Building imposes itself with an overbearing feel.

    Rich Rifkin:
    “It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core.”

  224. The Chen Building looks installed, as if interlocking Lego pieces were plugged into the hole where the Terminal Hotel and Antique Bizarre Building used to be.
    I highly doubt, considering the cheap materials and construction methods used, that the Chen Building will last nearly as long as the 80 years the Terminal Hotel Building was in existence.
    The Terminal Hotel Building was built with integrity in the context of its surroundings. The Chen Building imposes itself with an overbearing feel.

    Rich Rifkin:
    “It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core.”

  225. Anon 5:49

    I concede that I am not an architect. I used to be a principal in a real estate development company and from that have a lot of experience in construction. My sense is that everything you said about the Chen Building is wrong. Your LEgo comments are patently absurd. Further, everything you said about the Terminal Hotel, which was built to the rather poor standards of the 1920s, is also wrong.

    Whether the Chen Building lasts 80 years or not will depend not on the quality of its construction, but on whether it is or is not obsolete 8 decades hence.

  226. Anon 5:49

    I concede that I am not an architect. I used to be a principal in a real estate development company and from that have a lot of experience in construction. My sense is that everything you said about the Chen Building is wrong. Your LEgo comments are patently absurd. Further, everything you said about the Terminal Hotel, which was built to the rather poor standards of the 1920s, is also wrong.

    Whether the Chen Building lasts 80 years or not will depend not on the quality of its construction, but on whether it is or is not obsolete 8 decades hence.

  227. Anon 5:49

    I concede that I am not an architect. I used to be a principal in a real estate development company and from that have a lot of experience in construction. My sense is that everything you said about the Chen Building is wrong. Your LEgo comments are patently absurd. Further, everything you said about the Terminal Hotel, which was built to the rather poor standards of the 1920s, is also wrong.

    Whether the Chen Building lasts 80 years or not will depend not on the quality of its construction, but on whether it is or is not obsolete 8 decades hence.

  228. Anon 5:49

    I concede that I am not an architect. I used to be a principal in a real estate development company and from that have a lot of experience in construction. My sense is that everything you said about the Chen Building is wrong. Your LEgo comments are patently absurd. Further, everything you said about the Terminal Hotel, which was built to the rather poor standards of the 1920s, is also wrong.

    Whether the Chen Building lasts 80 years or not will depend not on the quality of its construction, but on whether it is or is not obsolete 8 decades hence.

  229. “Nasty? Are you kidding? I think the Roe Building, which is on 5th Street, not on Russell Blvd, is very attractive. It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core. If you only compare the Roe Building with the USDA building, which is also new, you would have to be blind to not see that the RB is much better looking and more engaging.”

    Excuse me, but IMHO your taste is all in your mouth Rich! The Roe Building is art deco style, which is antithetical to the architecture surrounding it. Across the street is essentially what I would call “neo-Spanish” (building with green roof and beige stucco walls); right next to the Roe Building is what I would call “blue beach shack”. An awful unintegrated mish-mash. And where else, pray tell, have you seen the sort of awful color combinations we have in Davis, e.g. pea green, orange and purple? Egads!

    “Because the RB is a commercial building on the ground floor with townhouse-condos above, it makes perfect sense to be right up against the street without setbacks. The older building next to it, at the corner of 5th and F Street also has no setbacks. That’s how commercial building are supposed to be.”

    The commercial bldg across the street (green roof and beige walls) has setbacks and a bit of greenery – and gives a nice refreshing look. The orange and gray building is out of character with those bldgs surrounding it – and because of no setback has shut off any possiblity of widening Russell downtown on that side. Stupid, stupid, stupid! No setbacks is reminescent of a downtown urban area of a large city, not the downtown core of a small town which is supposed to be more inviting to pedestrian traffic and promote conversation. Or so I heard Councilmember Asmundson say from the dais.

    You might get a better idea of what I am talking about if you took a trip to Woodland. They are making a great effort to integrate their architecture, so it blends nicely. It looks 100% better than Davis.

    I always laugh when people talk about “Davis’s character and feel”. What character and feel? Art deco? Neo-Spanish? Beach shack? Bungalow? Pea green? Orange? Purple? Maroon? Orange? It can’t make up its mind! Davis has become schizophrenic architecturally, with no thought to architectural blending, integrity, or complementary color scheme. It’s just plain awful!

  230. “Nasty? Are you kidding? I think the Roe Building, which is on 5th Street, not on Russell Blvd, is very attractive. It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core. If you only compare the Roe Building with the USDA building, which is also new, you would have to be blind to not see that the RB is much better looking and more engaging.”

    Excuse me, but IMHO your taste is all in your mouth Rich! The Roe Building is art deco style, which is antithetical to the architecture surrounding it. Across the street is essentially what I would call “neo-Spanish” (building with green roof and beige stucco walls); right next to the Roe Building is what I would call “blue beach shack”. An awful unintegrated mish-mash. And where else, pray tell, have you seen the sort of awful color combinations we have in Davis, e.g. pea green, orange and purple? Egads!

    “Because the RB is a commercial building on the ground floor with townhouse-condos above, it makes perfect sense to be right up against the street without setbacks. The older building next to it, at the corner of 5th and F Street also has no setbacks. That’s how commercial building are supposed to be.”

    The commercial bldg across the street (green roof and beige walls) has setbacks and a bit of greenery – and gives a nice refreshing look. The orange and gray building is out of character with those bldgs surrounding it – and because of no setback has shut off any possiblity of widening Russell downtown on that side. Stupid, stupid, stupid! No setbacks is reminescent of a downtown urban area of a large city, not the downtown core of a small town which is supposed to be more inviting to pedestrian traffic and promote conversation. Or so I heard Councilmember Asmundson say from the dais.

    You might get a better idea of what I am talking about if you took a trip to Woodland. They are making a great effort to integrate their architecture, so it blends nicely. It looks 100% better than Davis.

    I always laugh when people talk about “Davis’s character and feel”. What character and feel? Art deco? Neo-Spanish? Beach shack? Bungalow? Pea green? Orange? Purple? Maroon? Orange? It can’t make up its mind! Davis has become schizophrenic architecturally, with no thought to architectural blending, integrity, or complementary color scheme. It’s just plain awful!

  231. “Nasty? Are you kidding? I think the Roe Building, which is on 5th Street, not on Russell Blvd, is very attractive. It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core. If you only compare the Roe Building with the USDA building, which is also new, you would have to be blind to not see that the RB is much better looking and more engaging.”

    Excuse me, but IMHO your taste is all in your mouth Rich! The Roe Building is art deco style, which is antithetical to the architecture surrounding it. Across the street is essentially what I would call “neo-Spanish” (building with green roof and beige stucco walls); right next to the Roe Building is what I would call “blue beach shack”. An awful unintegrated mish-mash. And where else, pray tell, have you seen the sort of awful color combinations we have in Davis, e.g. pea green, orange and purple? Egads!

    “Because the RB is a commercial building on the ground floor with townhouse-condos above, it makes perfect sense to be right up against the street without setbacks. The older building next to it, at the corner of 5th and F Street also has no setbacks. That’s how commercial building are supposed to be.”

    The commercial bldg across the street (green roof and beige walls) has setbacks and a bit of greenery – and gives a nice refreshing look. The orange and gray building is out of character with those bldgs surrounding it – and because of no setback has shut off any possiblity of widening Russell downtown on that side. Stupid, stupid, stupid! No setbacks is reminescent of a downtown urban area of a large city, not the downtown core of a small town which is supposed to be more inviting to pedestrian traffic and promote conversation. Or so I heard Councilmember Asmundson say from the dais.

    You might get a better idea of what I am talking about if you took a trip to Woodland. They are making a great effort to integrate their architecture, so it blends nicely. It looks 100% better than Davis.

    I always laugh when people talk about “Davis’s character and feel”. What character and feel? Art deco? Neo-Spanish? Beach shack? Bungalow? Pea green? Orange? Purple? Maroon? Orange? It can’t make up its mind! Davis has become schizophrenic architecturally, with no thought to architectural blending, integrity, or complementary color scheme. It’s just plain awful!

  232. “Nasty? Are you kidding? I think the Roe Building, which is on 5th Street, not on Russell Blvd, is very attractive. It is similar in architectural style to the Chen Building, which I would rate as the most attractive new building in the core. If you only compare the Roe Building with the USDA building, which is also new, you would have to be blind to not see that the RB is much better looking and more engaging.”

    Excuse me, but IMHO your taste is all in your mouth Rich! The Roe Building is art deco style, which is antithetical to the architecture surrounding it. Across the street is essentially what I would call “neo-Spanish” (building with green roof and beige stucco walls); right next to the Roe Building is what I would call “blue beach shack”. An awful unintegrated mish-mash. And where else, pray tell, have you seen the sort of awful color combinations we have in Davis, e.g. pea green, orange and purple? Egads!

    “Because the RB is a commercial building on the ground floor with townhouse-condos above, it makes perfect sense to be right up against the street without setbacks. The older building next to it, at the corner of 5th and F Street also has no setbacks. That’s how commercial building are supposed to be.”

    The commercial bldg across the street (green roof and beige walls) has setbacks and a bit of greenery – and gives a nice refreshing look. The orange and gray building is out of character with those bldgs surrounding it – and because of no setback has shut off any possiblity of widening Russell downtown on that side. Stupid, stupid, stupid! No setbacks is reminescent of a downtown urban area of a large city, not the downtown core of a small town which is supposed to be more inviting to pedestrian traffic and promote conversation. Or so I heard Councilmember Asmundson say from the dais.

    You might get a better idea of what I am talking about if you took a trip to Woodland. They are making a great effort to integrate their architecture, so it blends nicely. It looks 100% better than Davis.

    I always laugh when people talk about “Davis’s character and feel”. What character and feel? Art deco? Neo-Spanish? Beach shack? Bungalow? Pea green? Orange? Purple? Maroon? Orange? It can’t make up its mind! Davis has become schizophrenic architecturally, with no thought to architectural blending, integrity, or complementary color scheme. It’s just plain awful!

  233. Folks who complain about an absence of setbacks and greenery in front of a commercial building intended to draw people in for business have no clue as to what is and is not an appropriate building design in an urban setting.

  234. Folks who complain about an absence of setbacks and greenery in front of a commercial building intended to draw people in for business have no clue as to what is and is not an appropriate building design in an urban setting.

  235. Folks who complain about an absence of setbacks and greenery in front of a commercial building intended to draw people in for business have no clue as to what is and is not an appropriate building design in an urban setting.

  236. Folks who complain about an absence of setbacks and greenery in front of a commercial building intended to draw people in for business have no clue as to what is and is not an appropriate building design in an urban setting.

  241. “Folks who complain about an absence of setbacks and greenery in front of a commercial building intended to draw people in for business have no clue as to what is and is not an appropriate building design in an urban setting.”

    Then how come some commercial bldgs have setbacks and greenery? An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.

  242. “Folks who complain about an absence of setbacks and greenery in front of a commercial building intended to draw people in for business have no clue as to what is and is not an appropriate building design in an urban setting.”

    Then how come some commercial bldgs have setbacks and greenery? An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.

  243. “Folks who complain about an absence of setbacks and greenery in front of a commercial building intended to draw people in for business have no clue as to what is and is not an appropriate building design in an urban setting.”

    Then how come some commercial bldgs have setbacks and greenery? An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.

  244. “Folks who complain about an absence of setbacks and greenery in front of a commercial building intended to draw people in for business have no clue as to what is and is not an appropriate building design in an urban setting.”

    Then how come some commercial bldgs have setbacks and greenery? An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.

  245. ‘Then how come some commercial bldgs have setbacks and greenery? An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.’

    Buildings intended for retail type uses (stores, restaurants in general, etc.) on the first floor need to have close proximity to the sidewalk so pedestrians can see inside. It’s a basic principle of good urban design. Other first floor uses it’s not so critical but generally contributes to a pedestrian-friendly environment, especially with a larger building. The Roe Building set back from the sidewalk would look odd.

    I’m using the term “urban” as opposed to “rural”. Whether you view it that way or not, downtown Davis is in fact an urbanized setting. Whether it is small-town urban or contemporary urban is the point to be debated, but the central business district of even very small towns have no setbacks for their commercial businesses. Architects a century ago understood this. That’s when they got it right. The landscaping should go between the building and the street. The downtown grid lends itself particularly well to zero setback commercial buildings.

    Bottom line is it is appropriate to have setbacks for residential buildings, not for commercial buildings. The existing buildings with setbacks and landscaping were most likely originally built as homes. Except, perhaps Baker’s Square, in which case my point is made.

  246. ‘Then how come some commercial bldgs have setbacks and greenery? An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.’

    Buildings intended for retail type uses (stores, restaurants in general, etc.) on the first floor need to have close proximity to the sidewalk so pedestrians can see inside. It’s a basic principle of good urban design. Other first floor uses it’s not so critical but generally contributes to a pedestrian-friendly environment, especially with a larger building. The Roe Building set back from the sidewalk would look odd.

    I’m using the term “urban” as opposed to “rural”. Whether you view it that way or not, downtown Davis is in fact an urbanized setting. Whether it is small-town urban or contemporary urban is the point to be debated, but the central business district of even very small towns have no setbacks for their commercial businesses. Architects a century ago understood this. That’s when they got it right. The landscaping should go between the building and the street. The downtown grid lends itself particularly well to zero setback commercial buildings.

    Bottom line is it is appropriate to have setbacks for residential buildings, not for commercial buildings. The existing buildings with setbacks and landscaping were most likely originally built as homes. Except, perhaps Baker’s Square, in which case my point is made.

  247. ‘Then how come some commercial bldgs have setbacks and greenery? An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.’

    Buildings intended for retail type uses (stores, restaurants in general, etc.) on the first floor need to have close proximity to the sidewalk so pedestrians can see inside. It’s a basic principle of good urban design. Other first floor uses it’s not so critical but generally contributes to a pedestrian-friendly environment, especially with a larger building. The Roe Building set back from the sidewalk would look odd.

    I’m using the term “urban” as opposed to “rural”. Whether you view it that way or not, downtown Davis is in fact an urbanized setting. Whether it is small-town urban or contemporary urban is the point to be debated, but the central business district of even very small towns have no setbacks for their commercial businesses. Architects a century ago understood this. That’s when they got it right. The landscaping should go between the building and the street. The downtown grid lends itself particularly well to zero setback commercial buildings.

    Bottom line is it is appropriate to have setbacks for residential buildings, not for commercial buildings. The existing buildings with setbacks and landscaping were most likely originally built as homes. Except, perhaps Baker’s Square, in which case my point is made.

  248. ‘Then how come some commercial bldgs have setbacks and greenery? An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.’

    Buildings intended for retail type uses (stores, restaurants in general, etc.) on the first floor need to have close proximity to the sidewalk so pedestrians can see inside. It’s a basic principle of good urban design. Other first floor uses it’s not so critical but generally contributes to a pedestrian-friendly environment, especially with a larger building. The Roe Building set back from the sidewalk would look odd.

    I’m using the term “urban” as opposed to “rural”. Whether you view it that way or not, downtown Davis is in fact an urbanized setting. Whether it is small-town urban or contemporary urban is the point to be debated, but the central business district of even very small towns have no setbacks for their commercial businesses. Architects a century ago understood this. That’s when they got it right. The landscaping should go between the building and the street. The downtown grid lends itself particularly well to zero setback commercial buildings.

    Bottom line is it is appropriate to have setbacks for residential buildings, not for commercial buildings. The existing buildings with setbacks and landscaping were most likely originally built as homes. Except, perhaps Baker’s Square, in which case my point is made.

  249. ‘And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.’

    This is a presumptuous statement. Everybody is different. Most likely, people want a mix. I think the real litmus test is whether any new project is better than what it replaces.

  250. ‘And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.’

    This is a presumptuous statement. Everybody is different. Most likely, people want a mix. I think the real litmus test is whether any new project is better than what it replaces.

  251. ‘And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.’

    This is a presumptuous statement. Everybody is different. Most likely, people want a mix. I think the real litmus test is whether any new project is better than what it replaces.

  252. ‘And, by the way, I don’t think Davisites want the downtown core area to look “urban”.’

    This is a presumptuous statement. Everybody is different. Most likely, people want a mix. I think the real litmus test is whether any new project is better than what it replaces.

  253. “An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. “

    How do you know if the business is inviting if you can’t see inside it? You’re going to rely on landscaping? I think most people would rather see what is being sold and/or see the inside of the restaurant (maybe even the food!)where they will be spending time than rely on a landscaped setback to fill in the question mark.

  254. “An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. “

    How do you know if the business is inviting if you can’t see inside it? You’re going to rely on landscaping? I think most people would rather see what is being sold and/or see the inside of the restaurant (maybe even the food!)where they will be spending time than rely on a landscaped setback to fill in the question mark.

  255. “An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. “

    How do you know if the business is inviting if you can’t see inside it? You’re going to rely on landscaping? I think most people would rather see what is being sold and/or see the inside of the restaurant (maybe even the food!)where they will be spending time than rely on a landscaped setback to fill in the question mark.

  256. “An inviting business from the outside is much more likely to draw me inside. “

    How do you know if the business is inviting if you can’t see inside it? You’re going to rely on landscaping? I think most people would rather see what is being sold and/or see the inside of the restaurant (maybe even the food!)where they will be spending time than rely on a landscaped setback to fill in the question mark.

  257. “And for added measure, make the optician on 2nd street take down that awful eyeball. It is positively gross!”

    I love that building! Keep Davis weird!

  258. “And for added measure, make the optician on 2nd street take down that awful eyeball. It is positively gross!”

    I love that building! Keep Davis weird!

  259. “And for added measure, make the optician on 2nd street take down that awful eyeball. It is positively gross!”

    I love that building! Keep Davis weird!

  260. “And for added measure, make the optician on 2nd street take down that awful eyeball. It is positively gross!”

    I love that building! Keep Davis weird!

  261. Simply put, Anonymous 2:05 understands what he’s talking about. Kudos, on the other hand, could do with some education before spouting off. Every comment you made is off the mark, Kudos. Better luck next time.

  262. Simply put, Anonymous 2:05 understands what he’s talking about. Kudos, on the other hand, could do with some education before spouting off. Every comment you made is off the mark, Kudos. Better luck next time.

  263. Simply put, Anonymous 2:05 understands what he’s talking about. Kudos, on the other hand, could do with some education before spouting off. Every comment you made is off the mark, Kudos. Better luck next time.

  264. Simply put, Anonymous 2:05 understands what he’s talking about. Kudos, on the other hand, could do with some education before spouting off. Every comment you made is off the mark, Kudos. Better luck next time.

  265. So, you understand the money end of the development business, which is why you should leave discussion of building design issues to those who are concerned with and knowledgeable about them–rather than simply lob your, as you admit below, unsubtantiated opinions into the fray.

    “I concede that I am not an architect. I used to be a principal in a real estate development company and from that have a lot of experience in construction.”

  266. So, you understand the money end of the development business, which is why you should leave discussion of building design issues to those who are concerned with and knowledgeable about them–rather than simply lob your, as you admit below, unsubtantiated opinions into the fray.

    “I concede that I am not an architect. I used to be a principal in a real estate development company and from that have a lot of experience in construction.”

  267. So, you understand the money end of the development business, which is why you should leave discussion of building design issues to those who are concerned with and knowledgeable about them–rather than simply lob your, as you admit below, unsubtantiated opinions into the fray.

    “I concede that I am not an architect. I used to be a principal in a real estate development company and from that have a lot of experience in construction.”

  268. So, you understand the money end of the development business, which is why you should leave discussion of building design issues to those who are concerned with and knowledgeable about them–rather than simply lob your, as you admit below, unsubtantiated opinions into the fray.

    “I concede that I am not an architect. I used to be a principal in a real estate development company and from that have a lot of experience in construction.”

  269. “So, you understand the money end of the development business, which is why you should leave discussion of building design issues to those who are concerned with and knowledgeable about them”

    Presuming you are the same person afraid to use his name — what credentials do you have? From reading your comments, you sound ignorant of how and why buildings are built, ignorant of architecture, ignorant of design and ignorant of all things right and relevant.

  270. “So, you understand the money end of the development business, which is why you should leave discussion of building design issues to those who are concerned with and knowledgeable about them”

    Presuming you are the same person afraid to use his name — what credentials do you have? From reading your comments, you sound ignorant of how and why buildings are built, ignorant of architecture, ignorant of design and ignorant of all things right and relevant.

  271. “So, you understand the money end of the development business, which is why you should leave discussion of building design issues to those who are concerned with and knowledgeable about them”

    Presuming you are the same person afraid to use his name — what credentials do you have? From reading your comments, you sound ignorant of how and why buildings are built, ignorant of architecture, ignorant of design and ignorant of all things right and relevant.

  272. “So, you understand the money end of the development business, which is why you should leave discussion of building design issues to those who are concerned with and knowledgeable about them”

    Presuming you are the same person afraid to use his name — what credentials do you have? From reading your comments, you sound ignorant of how and why buildings are built, ignorant of architecture, ignorant of design and ignorant of all things right and relevant.

  273. Rich,
    Take a break, man. Stop writing (and drinking so much coffee?) for a few days. Go wade in Putah Creek or hike around Berryessa. Otherwise, I think your head is going to explode!

  274. Rich,
    Take a break, man. Stop writing (and drinking so much coffee?) for a few days. Go wade in Putah Creek or hike around Berryessa. Otherwise, I think your head is going to explode!

  275. Rich,
    Take a break, man. Stop writing (and drinking so much coffee?) for a few days. Go wade in Putah Creek or hike around Berryessa. Otherwise, I think your head is going to explode!

  276. Rich,
    Take a break, man. Stop writing (and drinking so much coffee?) for a few days. Go wade in Putah Creek or hike around Berryessa. Otherwise, I think your head is going to explode!

  277. He probably doesn’t care, I don’t know the guy, but that last anonymous comment about Rifkin is rude and unnecessary. Look in the mirror, my friend, and treat other people with a little decency.

  278. He probably doesn’t care, I don’t know the guy, but that last anonymous comment about Rifkin is rude and unnecessary. Look in the mirror, my friend, and treat other people with a little decency.

  279. He probably doesn’t care, I don’t know the guy, but that last anonymous comment about Rifkin is rude and unnecessary. Look in the mirror, my friend, and treat other people with a little decency.

  280. He probably doesn’t care, I don’t know the guy, but that last anonymous comment about Rifkin is rude and unnecessary. Look in the mirror, my friend, and treat other people with a little decency.

  281. Rich just seems to get a bit strident on the subject of development sometimes (note his reiteration of the word “ignorant”), especially the aesthetic qualities of the modern prefab buildings. He can lash out, but without substantiation. I mean, 1920s era buildings, like the Anderson Building or demolished Terminal Hotel, were built to last by experienced craftsmen (not nailgun jockeys like you see today putting up things like the Roe building on Fifth Street. I stood and watched those guys for a few minutes during construction and was amazed…it was almost like watching the Keystone Cops.) with top quality materials. I mean, it was a challenge to knock down the Terminal Hotel…

  282. Rich just seems to get a bit strident on the subject of development sometimes (note his reiteration of the word “ignorant”), especially the aesthetic qualities of the modern prefab buildings. He can lash out, but without substantiation. I mean, 1920s era buildings, like the Anderson Building or demolished Terminal Hotel, were built to last by experienced craftsmen (not nailgun jockeys like you see today putting up things like the Roe building on Fifth Street. I stood and watched those guys for a few minutes during construction and was amazed…it was almost like watching the Keystone Cops.) with top quality materials. I mean, it was a challenge to knock down the Terminal Hotel…

  283. Rich just seems to get a bit strident on the subject of development sometimes (note his reiteration of the word “ignorant”), especially the aesthetic qualities of the modern prefab buildings. He can lash out, but without substantiation. I mean, 1920s era buildings, like the Anderson Building or demolished Terminal Hotel, were built to last by experienced craftsmen (not nailgun jockeys like you see today putting up things like the Roe building on Fifth Street. I stood and watched those guys for a few minutes during construction and was amazed…it was almost like watching the Keystone Cops.) with top quality materials. I mean, it was a challenge to knock down the Terminal Hotel…

  284. Rich just seems to get a bit strident on the subject of development sometimes (note his reiteration of the word “ignorant”), especially the aesthetic qualities of the modern prefab buildings. He can lash out, but without substantiation. I mean, 1920s era buildings, like the Anderson Building or demolished Terminal Hotel, were built to last by experienced craftsmen (not nailgun jockeys like you see today putting up things like the Roe building on Fifth Street. I stood and watched those guys for a few minutes during construction and was amazed…it was almost like watching the Keystone Cops.) with top quality materials. I mean, it was a challenge to knock down the Terminal Hotel…

  285. Rob Roy, here is what Kemble said about you:

    “Roy’s appearances at the Candidates’ Forums have been lackluster, devoid of content and exhibit his lack of basic knowledge about the issues.”

    Now, that is definitely not a nice or friendly thing to say in a public (davis voice blog) setting without context and without regard to who might read it. Do you, Rob Roy, think your appearances were ‘devoid of content’ as Kemble does?

  286. Rob Roy, here is what Kemble said about you:

    “Roy’s appearances at the Candidates’ Forums have been lackluster, devoid of content and exhibit his lack of basic knowledge about the issues.”

    Now, that is definitely not a nice or friendly thing to say in a public (davis voice blog) setting without context and without regard to who might read it. Do you, Rob Roy, think your appearances were ‘devoid of content’ as Kemble does?

  287. Rob Roy, here is what Kemble said about you:

    “Roy’s appearances at the Candidates’ Forums have been lackluster, devoid of content and exhibit his lack of basic knowledge about the issues.”

    Now, that is definitely not a nice or friendly thing to say in a public (davis voice blog) setting without context and without regard to who might read it. Do you, Rob Roy, think your appearances were ‘devoid of content’ as Kemble does?

  288. Rob Roy, here is what Kemble said about you:

    “Roy’s appearances at the Candidates’ Forums have been lackluster, devoid of content and exhibit his lack of basic knowledge about the issues.”

    Now, that is definitely not a nice or friendly thing to say in a public (davis voice blog) setting without context and without regard to who might read it. Do you, Rob Roy, think your appearances were ‘devoid of content’ as Kemble does?

  289. Before the last election Rob Roy was tagging along with Mayor Sue Greenwald precinct walking; she’d do most of the talking and then he’d chime in with supportive comments.

  290. Before the last election Rob Roy was tagging along with Mayor Sue Greenwald precinct walking; she’d do most of the talking and then he’d chime in with supportive comments.

  291. Before the last election Rob Roy was tagging along with Mayor Sue Greenwald precinct walking; she’d do most of the talking and then he’d chime in with supportive comments.

  292. Before the last election Rob Roy was tagging along with Mayor Sue Greenwald precinct walking; she’d do most of the talking and then he’d chime in with supportive comments.

  297. “Presuming you are the same person afraid to use his name — what credentials do you have? From reading your comments, you sound ignorant of how and why buildings are built, ignorant of architecture, ignorant of design and ignorant of all things right and relevant.”

    So who made you the arbiter of all things right and relevant?

    As for ignorance, you didn’t even recognize the difference and incompatability of the various architectural styles surrounding the Roe Bldg.

  298. “Presuming you are the same person afraid to use his name — what credentials do you have? From reading your comments, you sound ignorant of how and why buildings are built, ignorant of architecture, ignorant of design and ignorant of all things right and relevant.”

    So who made you the arbiter of all things right and relevant?

    As for ignorance, you didn’t even recognize the difference and incompatability of the various architectural styles surrounding the Roe Bldg.

  299. “Presuming you are the same person afraid to use his name — what credentials do you have? From reading your comments, you sound ignorant of how and why buildings are built, ignorant of architecture, ignorant of design and ignorant of all things right and relevant.”

    So who made you the arbiter of all things right and relevant?

    As for ignorance, you didn’t even recognize the difference and incompatability of the various architectural styles surrounding the Roe Bldg.

  300. “Presuming you are the same person afraid to use his name — what credentials do you have? From reading your comments, you sound ignorant of how and why buildings are built, ignorant of architecture, ignorant of design and ignorant of all things right and relevant.”

    So who made you the arbiter of all things right and relevant?

    As for ignorance, you didn’t even recognize the difference and incompatability of the various architectural styles surrounding the Roe Bldg.

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