I posed the question rather casually, but perhaps I should formalize it. I have read the arguments against Measure A, in fact I am sympathetic to some of them. The fact of the matter is that homeowners in Davis will be asked to pay more money to support local schools.
Times are tough, I agree. I have fought tooth and nail against other increases to people’s tax burden. A lot of people need to understand that we have a very limited pot of money right now. And so I am sympathetic to the argument that these are tough times.
Think about this, for water alone, not including sewer and other fees, the typical person will be paying more than $1300 per year. With sewer and other cost upgrades, there are many people who will be getting bimonthly charges of $500.
Now, some people are able to put money aside month to month, but the bimonthly bill is probably going to harm a lot of people.
But there is more. There are renewals for both school, library, and city taxes coming up in the next year.
The question is really a matter of priorities.
Because of the failure of the legislature to put the tax extension on the ballot, we are looking at a $6 million deficit to our schools. That is money coming from the state that will be cut.
Now, I asked people to tell me where they propose cutting $6 million from the district’s budget. No one answered where they would cut money.
Some have suggested there is fat. After three straight budget cutting sessions, I defy people to find general fund money that could and should be cut. I want a list. I want it to add up to six million. I think if you are going to vote against education, the least you can do is tell us what you would cut.
The only answer I got though was, “Where is the 6 million going to come from when people are priced out of Davis?”
First of all, that answer makes no sense. Even if some people are priced out of Davis, which I think is problematic, it assumes no one else will move into Davis. That seems unlikely given the features of Davis that remain attractive.
Second, it misunderstands the nature of the financial problem. We are not getting $6 million from this parcel tax. No. We are getting half that. We still have to cut $3 million from the budget even if this does pass. Even if it is temporary, that is going to hurt a lot.
This year, every homeowner is paying 320 dollars. If Measure A is approved they will be paying 520 dollars. Remember, that is per year.
However, I would argue the chance of people being priced out of Davi,s based on a $200 annual increase to the parcel tax is unlikely.
So $200 a year, less than $20 a month, is going to price people out of Davis? Really?
When you break things down, you realize that is highly unlikely. First, the only people who will be paying the full $200 are homeowners. So right there, most low income people (and there are not a whole lot in Davis to begin with), are precluded from the full impact.
Second, those most likely to have a limited or fixed income and own a home are seniors, and seniors as you know are entitled to a senior exemption, which is what started the whole problem in the first place.
From that view, it seems very unlikely that there would be people priced out of Davis.
The other issue, of course, that has come up is the type of tax. I agree that the parcel tax is extremely regressive. It charges the same amount if you have a $200,000 home or a $1 million home.
You can thank those who passed Proposition 13 for that. According to an explanation from Palo Alto, “Proposition 13 prohibits parcel taxes from being based on a property’s value or on an individual’s income.”
Moreover, as people learned, “State law does not permit parcel taxes to be waived or reduced based on property owners’ income or financial resources, but it does permit school districts to provide an optional parcel tax exemption for senior citizens (age 65 or older).”
With all of the lawyers on here, no one ever bothers to look up government codes. But it is spelled out clearly in California Government Code section 50079, subsection B: ” ‘Qualified special taxes’ means special taxes that apply uniformly to all taxpayers or all real property within the school district, except that ‘qualified special taxes’ may include taxes that provide for an exemption from those taxes for taxpayers 65 years of age or older or for persons receiving Supplemental Security Income for a disability, regardless of age.”
The senior exemption has been in practice, according to one source, without a successful legal challenge for 25 years.
State law does not permit school districts to raise money in any other way locally. Under Article XIII-C of the California Constitution, “All taxes imposed by any local government shall be deemed to be either general taxes or special taxes. Special purpose districts or agencies, including school districts, shall have no power to levy general taxes.” Thus, a school district cannot impose an income tax.
People should note that, rightly or wrongly, one of the reasons there is a two-thirds vote requirement is to protect the rights of the landowners against those of the marauding masses. I disagree, but that is the logic of Prop. 13.
The bottom line for me, I want to see people come up with where they will cut the money if this does not pass. Now some will argue that is not a fair burden. The burden, however, is one you need to convince others that you are right. One way you could do so would be to show people how you would cut in a way that might make cuts more palatable.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
“one of the reasons there is a two-thirds vote requirement is to protect the rights of the landowners against those of the marauding masses. I disagree, but that is the logic of Prop. 13.”
How about when the marauding masses vote against gay marriage or illegal immigration? Are you okay with that? Or is it only fair when they vote a tax on landowners?
Rusty: huh?
Simple question: Why didn’t the school district send a letter to ALL seniors, asking that if they could afford the school parcel tax, to please NOT TAKE THE EXEMPTION? They could have stated it in a way that was certainly just as “neutral” as the letter they did send out – “Seniors are not required to take the exemption. Their payment of the parcel tax would be added to the amount others must pay, resulting in a larger pool of funding for our schools.”
Perhaps those who are voting against Measure A feel larger class sizes would not be a problem, or don’t think children will suffer overly much if they don’t have music and art. They just want their children to get the basics at school – English, Math, Social Studies, Science, and everything else is gravy. They have been hard hit themselves with furloughs, layoffs, are terrified of the increased taxes and fees coming down the pike, and know they absolutely cannot afford another financial hit. They have watched the schools waste vast amounts of funding on needless schools while closing others, mishandling various substantive issues (like the recent self-serving letter sent out to select seniors). They consider the parcel tax regressive and unfair in its implementation. Opponents may also think if citizens keep passing school parcel taxes, the school district will never get the message it must more carefully budget what funding it does have.
In other words, I think the “nos” can make fairly compelling arguments – it doesn’t necessarily make opponents of Measure A ignorant, as seems to be implied in the above article. Both sides have very strong arguments. Ultimately, all of us must abide by whatever the vote count is on Measure A, and each person has to vote their conscience. There is no “right” or “wrong” here IMHO… and to imply otherwise is just downright undemocratic…
David, read it again slowly. It makes perfect sense.
This certainly puts the $200 parcel tax into perspective. The only people who would have been “priced out of Davis” by the Measure A levy are folks who couldn’t afford to buy into Davis in the first place.
That also ameliorates the regressive impact of this parcel tax since only well-off and more-well-off homeowners will be getting bills. In addition, some others with plenty of disposable income (Davis seniors) won’t have to pay $520 each year. Even those who could afford to pay an additional $20 a year (Rancho Yolo residents) won’t have to.
Lay off 6 million worth of teachers , and make apartment dwellers pay there fair share .
My daughter lived in Hershey PA while she was attending school. Every resident received a County school tax bill whether they were renting or a homeowner. If you made over $10,000 then you had to pay the bill and there wasn’t any step ladder to the payment. Do you think Measure A would pass here if everyone had skin in the game? I think not. It’s easy to vote yes on a tax if you’re voting to slam it on someone else.
Elaine: My answer to those arguments is that the “gravy” is the difference between what is required/expected of a 21st century public education system, vs. a last century education system. A generation ago, it was somewhat okay if a child dropped out of school at some point, because there was acceptable work and a reasonable pathway for a high school dropout, or someone without post HS education to support himself. That really doesn’t exist, now.
In fact, failure to provide an adequate education at a K-12 level is a bigger fiscal drain on us in the future by way of lost earning potential and social safety net spending.
The smaller class sizes, the secondary counselors, the visual, performing and technical arts classes are what it takes to get the largest number of students to the next level of the students’ education and career.
Some of the argument that gets missed is should the state pay for this? The state has rather consistently said no, and they have opted for across the board tax cuts instead. That leaves the local school district to figure out additional revenues.
I don’t see Measure A opponents as innately ignorant. But I get testy when my position is called or inferred as uninformed and ignorant without support. There is the more civil option of saying, “we’ll just have to disagree on this” that rarely gets used. But I credit and respect you for exercising that more civil option, Elaine.
[quote]”Simple question: Why didn’t the school district send a letter to ALL seniors, asking that if they could afford the school parcel tax, to please NOT TAKE THE EXEMPTION?”[/quote] This is an interesting approach, Elaine. Although the district might be hesitant to send out anymore exemptions letters, this could be a campaign after Measure A passes.
Wonder what the net would be?. A possible negative would be the number of exemptions filed by people who otherwise wouldn’t have know they could apply.
The campaign wouldn’t have to be run by DJUSD. The Blue & White Foundation or those who financed the “Yes on Measure A” publicity could take this on. Innovative idea!
[i]”Simple question: Why didn’t the school district send a letter to ALL seniors…?”[/i]
Because they don’t have the addresses/contact info of all the seniors in Davis. They only have contact info for the seniors who have turned in their forms to get the exemption.
[quote]”My answer to those arguments is that the “gravy” is the difference between what is required/expected of a 21st century public education system, vs. a last century education system….”[/quote]What an exceptional write-up on the value of educating for the well-rounded person and the costs of poor schools. [b]wdf1[/b]: You are so convincing when you aren’t supporting the unsupportable (“DJUD can’t afford the time to tell us why they really sent out The Letter.”). And when you’re not testy.
[i]wdf1: You are so convincing when you aren’t supporting the unsupportable (“DJUD can’t afford the time to tell us why they really sent out The Letter.”). And when you’re not testy.[/i]
Maybe adrenelin interferes with clear thinking. 😉
” I have fought tooth and nail against other increases to people’s tax burden. “
what?!?!! this is just 2 much! you stood in favor of every tax proposed, and you even criticized the school board at one point for not increasing the tax! and you are arguing in favor of the current tax. cut the crap please.
DMG: Even if some people are priced out of Davis, which I think is problematic, it assumes no one else will move into Davis. That seems unlikely given the features of Davis that remain attractive.
lol, Davis is so attractive that people will move in even if it is too expensive. and to assume more people are flocking to davis given the economic situation, and given that you want to shake more money out of their collective pockets is going to make it that much more unlikely.
DMG: Second, it misunderstands the nature of the financial problem. We are not getting $6 million from this parcel tax. No. We are getting half that. We still have to cut $3 million from the budget even if this does pass. Even if it is temporary, that is going to hurt a lot.
welcome to the real bleeping world! the people who pay those taxes are not hurting any less than the district.
This year, every homeowner is paying 320 dollars. If Measure A is approved they will be paying 520 dollars. Remember, that is per year.
However, I would argue the chance of people being priced out of Davis based on a $200 annual increase to the parcel tax is unlikely.
So $200 a year, less than $20 a month, is going to price people out of Davis? Really?
yes, really. and people have written into this blog saying that very thing. have you ever heard of the phrase: “nickel and diming someone to death?” , or “the straw that broke the camel’s back?” one tax may not do it alone, but that tax combined with others, adds up.
“When you break things down, you realize that is highly unlikely. First, the only people who will be paying the full $200 are homeowners. So right there, most low income people (and there are not a whole lot in Davis to begin with), are precluded from the full impact.”
Bull. people in apartment complexes are going to find their rents go up to cover the cost.
“With all of the lawyers on here, no one ever bothers to look up government codes.”
just because something is legal, doesn’t make it right. and just because something is written into the law, doesn’t mean it cannot be stricken down on a challenge. look at all of the challenges people put to proposition 8.
I agree with ERM that there are legitimate arguments on both sides of this issue. I find it difficult to believe that one of those is the actual cost of the parcel tax. When we are talking about 55 cents per day, I think there are probably very few homeowners in Davis who could not manage this amount. But given my agreement with Mussers statement that this is a regressive tax, I decided to put my money where my mouth was.
I have a close,but less affluent friend who is a strong supporter of the Davis schools and has already very generously voted yes on Measure A. I have offered to partner with him and cover his parcel tax if this passes.. I would like to challenge our town’s more affluent citizens to do the the same if you believe in supporting our schools.
“The bottom line for me, I want to see people come up with where they will cut the money if this does not pass. Now some will argue that is not a fair burden. The burden, however, is one you need to convince others that you are right.”
that is your bottom line, but it is not mine. if you go by that logic, then the district should be able to waste other people’s money till its heart is content, and they can always count on another check simply because there is no money left.
sorry, but that is a luxury mom and dad do not have. when mom and dad lose their jobs, they cannot withold taxes from the IRS. they must make do. they can’t get a raise because they cannot afford their health insurance, which is a necessity. if they lose their home, another necessity, they have to deal with it. if they have to sell personal possessions, or move into section 8, they have to deal. yet you seem to think the district should be immune. you have described the dire economic situation in the district as being all important.
A child’s education is important, but it is more important that that child has something to eat every day. which means mom and dad need to bring home the bacon. and they cannot do that if the district gets to soak them everytime it runs out of money.
and what are we teaching kids everytime the district has an excuse to get more taxes? kids have to deal with an allowance. they do so because they must learn that money is finite.
Musser
“and what are we teaching kids …” I believe that the lesson is that we need to pay for the things that we value, that more is required to support our community when times are hard, and that everyone who is part of a community has an obligation to support it. Those would seem to me to be worthwhile lessons for our children.
Musser: [i]A child’s education is important, but it is more important that that child has something to eat every day. which means mom and dad need to bring home the bacon. and they cannot do that if the district gets to soak them everytime it runs out of money.[/i]
Which is why the school district is required to provide breakfast and lunch if they need it. That poor kid especially is going to need what’s funded in this parcel tax. More individual attention in smaller K-3 classes, , a computer class in 7th grade so that he/she will know the way around Word, Powerpoint, and basics of designing webpages, maybe a music class to help keep him interested in school, academic counseling to be able to make it to the next step after graduating. All funded by Measure A.
I volunteer to help kids from lower income families in Davis. Those families figure out how to live in Davis because they want their kids in the schools.
When I gaze across the street, my eyes alight on the family who bought a Stanley Davis special similar to ours who pay $5,000+ per year in taxes because of Prop. 13 whereas I pay only $2,100. $200 per parcel is not the issue. Housing prices in Davis continue to be higher than surrounding cities, so we aren’t taxing people out of the city. The real issue is that the big corporate creeps who brought down the economy haven’t been prosecuted and are still running loose…with our money in their pockets. There is PLENTY of money to pay for everything except fewer of us are expected to pay for it. The issue is tax FAIRNESS at the state and national level. I don’t like having to pay more out of my own pocket either. But with our Christian attitude of forgiveness for those who are getting away with tax Murder, our only choices are to pay up and get even later with these creeps or let our entire society go to hell. Vote Yes on A and quit whining.
[b]wdf1:[/b] What percentage of the lower-income families with whom you work own houses in Davis, making them subject to parcel taxes?
[b]Musser:[/b] What percentage of Davis homeowners have children in jeopardy of going to bed hungry if a $200 annual parcel tax is approved?
[i]What percentage of the lower-income families with whom you work own houses in Davis, making them subject to parcel taxes?[/i]
Own houses??? How about renting houses. Rented houses are still subject to parcel taxes.
Why, in the end, I voted yes:
For me, the question was never about the amount of money, even for the lowest income home owners who are not seniors. The question was not about the stupid robo call that Tom Randall put out or the stupid post-card that Win Roberson mailed to seniors. The question is about the notion that in tough budgetary times — and I think it’s fair to say these are the toughest we have ever faced, even more so than following the passage of Prop 13 — why our district insists on pursuing a policy of cutting 100% of the income from some personnel while maintaining 100% of the income (or nearly 100%) from most of the rest. (I realize the teachers did take some furlough days which reduced their take home pay.) I don’t understand why everyone is not on some kind of a flexible contract, where the pain is spread more evenly, where everyone gets a 10% wage cut when the income to the district falls by 10%.
But ultimately, when I filled out my ballot today, I was influenced by an old friend who I saw on Saturday at a Picnic Day party who said this: You went to the Davis schools K-12. Knowing what you know will happen if Measure A fails, what would you have wanted for yourself were you a student now, as you were once a student in this school system? If you would have wanted others to fund your school through parcel taxes to avoid serious cutbacks in services, then you should not want today’s kids to suffer cutbacks, either.
So I voted yes. I am not really a religious man, though I call myself a Jew. My guiding principal in life is to do unto others as I would want others to do unto me. I don’t want today’s children harmed if Measure A fails. Largely because I was once what they are now, I could not vote No.
Well, Happy Passover, Rich.
“people in apartment complexes are going to find their rents go up to cover the cost.”
Musser: really? Do you actually know how much apartment owners will have to pay due to this? Do you know how much renters will have to pay due to this? I don’t think you do, otherwise you would not have made this argument.
I keep hearing “we need to do this, to support our children” equating passage of the tax, as supporting the children.
and how did the school district support out children? by throwing them under a bus, that’s how:
1. closing valley oak
2. trying to close emerson jr. high
3. failed to inform citizens about the dire situation of the mpr before they recieved donations for the stadium – showing he district will hide key details of the school situation from the public- then asks that public for more cash.
now the district expects me, to simply vote to fork over more money, no questions asked, simply because they ran out of it, and to trust them to wisely spend cash for the students, despite the facts suggesting otherwise.
and when the school district does get our money, what then? save programs and close another school?
“people in apartment complexes are going to find their rents go up to cover the cost.”
“Musser: really? Do you actually know how much apartment owners will have to pay due to this? Do you know how much renters will have to pay due to this? I don’t think you do, otherwise you would not have made this argument.”
David, huh? Musser is right, one of the arguments that the Measure A proponents have been making is that even though renters don’t have to pay directly they will most likely see higher rents so everyone has a stake in this. It was their comeback to why should renters be able to vote a tax increase for homeowners.
Rusty: He’s not right, I have not seen that argument made by proponents. The parcel tax is $20 on renters. The last two parcel taxes, we have nothing passed through to us. The parcel tax on the overall property is minimal when spread out for all of the units.
Musser: [i]and how did the school district support out children? by throwing them under a bus, that’s how:
1. closing valley oak[/i]
The district planned and voters approved plans to build an 8th and 9th elementary to respond to the growth conditions of the time. Shortly after, the voters approved Measure J to restrict growth in Davis. Measure J conditions didn’t support keeping 9 elementaries open. It was responsible to not operate 9 elementaries if the conditions didn’t warrant it.
[i]2. trying to close emerson jr. high[/i]
It was not an unreasonable thing to discuss. Davis is almost the only district in the state with a grade 10-12 high school. All other school districts have 9-12 high schools. The latter configuration has potential efficiencies. They discussed it, decided not to close it, case closed. What resentments do you have here?
[i]3. failed to inform citizens about the dire situation of the mpr before they recieved donations for the stadium – showing he district will hide key details of the school situation from the public- then asks that public for more cash.[/i]
No one knew of the extent of the damage at the time, anymore than you would know the extent of damage in your home when water first starts dripping from the ceiling, termites start poking through the wall, or suddenly your car makes a mysterious noise or vibration.
All three examples you present were political decisions that had proponents and opponents in Davis. All three were contested votes. Rarely do you get 100% of what you want in politics (unless you happened to be the absolute dictator). If that’s what you expect, you’re in for a lifetime of disappointments.
Measure A is clear. If voted down, those 50-60 teachers will be laid off. Without those positions, it is clear that fewer students will make it to the next level. Not passing Measure A would be throwing those students under the bus.
David, may I suggest you go back and read some of the older blog posts on your site. I’ve seen that argument made here a few times.
Bottom line is the assessment is $20 per apartment unit per year. That’s not a huge amount that can be passed through, it’s like $1.70 per month.
Musser: [i]Bull. people in apartment complexes are going to find their rents go up to cover the cost.[/i]
The apartment market in Davis isn’t tight enough to guarantee that. Last fall apartments still had signs out soliciting to fill vacancies. That’s not typical for Davis. Usually it’s only about this time of year that you see those signs. This is something that the apartment owners might consider eating, just to keep their prices competitive. West Village opens up this fall, as well.
Here’s a recent Enterprise article on the local apartment market:
[url]http://www.davisenterprise.com/Archived-Stories-0/davis-rent-vacancies-remain-flat/[/url]
WDF1:
I have to thank you for two things:
1. sparing me democrat/republican talking points
2.
“The district planned and voters approved plans to build an 8th and 9th elementary to respond to the growth conditions of the time. Shortly after, the voters approved Measure J to restrict growth in Davis. Measure J conditions didn’t support keeping 9 elementaries open. It was responsible to not operate 9 elementaries if the conditions didn’t warrant it.”
it is obvious the district at the time did not plan, plain and simple, and threw out bs to the voters about needing a new school. but the current one does not get off the hook, because they needed to close one of the newer schools, that should not have been built in the first place. but doing the right thing means the school board would have looked like the incompetent boobs that they are.
“people in apartment complexes are going to find their rents go up to cover the cost.”
Musser: really? Do you actually know how much apartment owners will have to pay due to this? Do you know how much renters will have to pay due to this? I don’t think you do, otherwise you would not have made this argument.
yes, really. apparently you have never heard the phrase: “nickel and diming someone to death.” and who’s kidding who, the school district is probably scheming to raise it again once this passes.
2. trying to close emerson jr. high
It was not an unreasonable thing to discuss. Davis is almost the only district in the state with a grade 10-12 high school. All other school districts have 9-12 high schools. The latter configuration has potential efficiencies. They discussed it, decided not to close it, case closed. What resentments do you have here?
yes it was unreasonable. so what if other districts have 9-12 high schools? emerson jr high served all of west davis, and the school board tried to throw them under a bus. and the only reason it did not happen is because people protested at their offices. they were forced not to do it.
“No one knew of the extent of the damage at the time, anymore than you would know the extent of damage in your home when water first starts dripping from the ceiling, termites start poking through the wall, or suddenly your car makes a mysterious noise or vibration.”
wow, what excuses! they’re called building codes, and if the school board does not know the state of its own buildings, then we need a new board. we have inspectors for a reason. “I did not know my own buildings were falling apart” is not a valid excuse. sorry, you are going to have to do better than that.
“Measure A is clear. If voted down, those 50-60 teachers will be laid off. Without those positions, it is clear that fewer students will make it to the next level. Not passing Measure A would be throwing those students under the bus.”
taken the other way, mom and dad cannot pay the bills. that too is throwing them under a bus. and 200 a year is grocery money, so junior can have breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
but yes, I’m aware of the counter argument, 200 is a small amount. but 200, here 200 there, health insurance, car insurance,……….
and who is kidding who, because the school board was looking for a much higher dollar amount, you can bet they are looking to raise the parcel tax next year or soon after.
David has repeatedly asked for someone to propose where 6 million can be cut.
I have another question. Can any one tell me what they think is the right amount of taxation to support the schools, and why ?
If one does not have an appropriate number in mind, I fail to see how one could decide whether we are being taxed to much …..or perhaps too little for what the schools provide.
[i]wow, what excuses! they’re called building codes, and if the school board does not know the state of its own buildings, then we need a new board. we have inspectors for a reason. “I did not know my own buildings were falling apart” is not a valid excuse. sorry, you are going to have to do better than that[/i]
A routine inspection originally discovered mold in October 2010. I’m not sure what your point is. A previous inspection determined that the roof could hold up for longer than was later determined.
[i]taken the other way, mom and dad cannot pay the bills. that too is throwing them under a bus. and 200 a year is grocery money, so junior can have breakfast, lunch, and dinner.[/i]
I’ll say it again. Why are mom and dad living in Davis under those conditions? Probably because they want the schools for their kids. If they didn’t care as much about the schools, they would live elsewhere. If they are poor enough, they’re covered by Section 8 housing.
And what is being cut are programs that this kid(s) most likely need. And you would like to “throw them under the bus over this”.
[i]yes it was unreasonable. so what if other districts have 9-12 high schools? emerson jr high served all of west davis, and the school board tried to throw them under a bus. and the only reason it did not happen is because people protested at their offices. they were forced not to do it.[/i]
David, it is a democracy, and people will bring up all kinds of topics for discussion that you disagree with. It isn’t a perfect world; be prepared for a lifetime of disappointments. Apparently you got the ultimate decision you desired (as did I), approved by a majority of the school board.
The tax is grossly unfair to property owners as many have stated. Exempt no one — $200 for every apartment unit passed to tenants — no senior specials … that would be a fair test of sentiment. It is the seniors who are most able to pay the extra tax, not young families. Seniors in Davis are generally affluent with stable high pension and investment income and pay low property tax because they have owned homes for decades.
Mind Hunter: [i]The tax is grossly unfair to property owners as many have stated. Exempt no one — $200 for every apartment unit passed to tenants — no senior specials … that would be a fair test of sentiment.[/i]
Measure A is assessed at $20 per apartment, not $200.