It was close, too close for comfort by some, but Board Members and District Officials are cautiously optimistic, despite the uncertain state budget situation that could push the deficit to nearly three million under worst case scenarios even with the passage of Measure A.
At a Measure A party at the home of Former State Superintendent of Public Instruction, Delaine Eastin, Ms. Eastin was her typical eloquent and optimistic self.
“One of the things that is alarming about the Tea Party stuff is that there is a picture about who we started out as,” the Former State Superintendent of Education told the small gathering of volunteers and elected officials, “I just want to remind you of what Thomas Paine said, he said when we talk about taxes we ought to recall that we lie down in peace and sleep in safety. That we are free to follow our farms, our stores, our other prosperous occupations and that these blessings of liberty are secured for us by the taxes that we pay.”
“I want to say that I live in Davis, California,” she continued. “I’m one of the unlucky people who didn’t have my own children, but I live here because I want to live in a town that cares about its children.”
Later she would add, “This whole country is so wrapped up in patriotism right now, but let me tell you patriotism for me is looking at the future and caring about the future and fighting for the future because we fought for our children.”
Despite the eloquent and optimistic speech that really words alone do little justice to, there was a real sense that this time things were different. There were missteps and controversies, and the community in the end supported education again, but at the same time sent a message that times were tough and that the pockets have a bottom.
Board President Richard Harris is not one to mince words and he did not disappoint on this night.
He told the Vanguard, “This was not about the school board, it was not about a coach, it was not about the League of Women Voters, it was not about senior exemptions, at the end of the day it’s only about the kids and once again Davis steps up to the plate.”
He added, “We did something that they probably weren’t going to do any place else in the state tonight – and there’s a lot of them that are on the ballot tonight. I’ll bet you there’s not very many that passed.”
Board Member Sheila Allen again expressed disappointment in the negativity and the tone of the election, even as she acknowledged that things did not run as smoothly as they might have hoped.
“I’m so very happy,” she told the Vanguard. “This vindicates the importance of the students, the kids, and the schools for Davis.”
“Davis is known for their schools,” she said. “This shows that even during these tough times and even in what was not a very easy or truth be told not a very well organized campaign that they still came through for the kids.”
Sheila Allen told the Vanguard that she was surprised by the level of negativity. She said that she understands the enthusiasm of parents especially as it deals with their kids, but that is a different kind of emotion than the kind of negativity she saw in this election.
“When there’s just negativity directed at either individuals or the school district, I was surprised by that. And disappointed too,” Ms. Allen said on Tuesday night. She has come to expect that sort of negativity in this country, but not in Davis. “What really, here too? That was disappointing.”
One of the problems was that there was not a well-organized Measure A campaign. Instead there were just a few local individuals that were doing little bits and pieces of the campaign. However, there was no coordinated approach, no campaign chair, no leader.
She noted that there is apparently a cottage industry that has grown up around political consulting for parcel taxes. She said, “I can tell you that zero dollars were paid for political consulting for Measure A.”
She sees this as a vindication, but also a wake up call. “I hope this is a wake up call to the community as a whole not to get crankier, not that kind of a wake up call,” she said, “but a wake up call that if they truly value this – because some time in the next 12 months we are going to have to do another parcel tax – we need other parents and other community members to step up and say that schools are important, I am going to step up and make it happen.”
Sheila Allen was referring to the renewal of Measure Q and Measure W which are set to expire some time in 2012. If the results of this are any indication, that will be a difficult sell to the public, even if that is merely an extension of the existing parcel taxes with no additional money.
However, the temptation may be to increase the parcel tax because, unfortunately, at this point it looks that Measure A will not cover the full budget deficit. Sheila Allen hopes not that much, and not as much as there would have been, had Measure A not passed. But they will have to plan, now that they know there will be seven periods in the Junior Highs.
The Vanguard spoke to Superintendent Winfred Roberson early in the evening before the results were finalized.
“The process is part of the whole American Democratic process that gives the local community the opportunity to choose,” Superintendent Roberson said. “The community will speak its values and it will be reflected in whatever the final polls say.”
“In the end we’re going to continue to serve kids the best we can with whatever resources we have,” he added.
Superintendent Roberson seemed well aware of the myriad of factors that played into the final outcome on Tuesday night.
“I think there are so many outside factors pressing on how people vote, this is a tough economy right now, I believe people generally support schools and education,” he pointed out. “Davis has shown [this] time and time again, but these are different times.”
“Financially people are really managing and watching their finances,” he continued. “While I think that there’s an anti-tax sentiment statewide, Davis values education and is willing to support their schools because they recognize the value of the educational system here.”
Superintendent Roberson also responded to the question as to whether the missteps created a closer election than we have seen in recent years.
“If you want to call them missteps, I believe it’s a matter of interpretation of things that were done,” he said.
In terms of future parcel taxes he argued that this gives the district a good barometer “of the community’s tolerance for property taxes.”
The work is not done for the school district, as we mentioned many times during the campaign, this will not cover all of this year’s cuts particularly if the legislature does not find a way to extend the current taxes.
“What we do know, if Measure A passes,” the Superintendent told the Vanguard, “it gives the school district about $3.3 million a year to work with. That is what we do know. What we don’t know is what the state is going to do, which puts us in a very sensitive position.”
“We’re trying to plan for 2011/12, but we still have not seen the final verdict from the state as to what the Governor’s budget is going to be and what level public education is going to be funded,” he added.
What we do know is that despite the problems in the campaign, of which there were many, some overblown and some self-inflicted, in the end and once again the Davis voters stepped up and overwhelmingly supported public education.
Yes, they barely made it above the artificial two-thirds bar, but by more than a two to one margin, the voters of Davis still supported an additional $200 per parcel tax in order to keep Davis schools where they are as among the best in the state.
We will have full election analysis as the week continues. One very clear trend, though, is that in the core of the city, Measure A passed. In the rural and unincorporated areas it failed. And it also failed in East Davis and some of the newer subdivisions in West Davis as well.
The more conservative parts of town did not support Measure A at the two to one level and neither did a lot of the more recent developments. Is that a further implication that the way we have developed has changed fundamentals of the city?
More on this later in the week.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
[quote]The [b]more conservative parts of town[/b] did not support Measure A at the two to one level and neither did a lot of the more recent developments. [b]Is that a further implication that the way we have developed has changed fundamentals of the city?[/b]
[/quote]I advise more than a superficial analysis… all residential properties have the same ‘parcel tax’ burdens. Pre~1990 development also pays a CFD tax to renovate/replace facilities that existed prior to the imposition of the tax. Post~1990 development not only is being assessed for the EXPANSION of facilities needed to support the increase in theoretical additional student loads, but ALSO for the renovation/replacement. The latter was accomplished by getting the assessment vote accomplished when developers owned the land, not a vote of residents/property owners. Representation w/o taxation. Many people who lived in the areas subject only to the renovation taxes, ‘moved up’ to the new areas, even tho’ they often were at the point where they were not adding to the student “load”. There are inequities in the CFD system, not unlike the prop 13 tax capitation system. I believe that for many, it isn’t a conservative/liberal/progressive/whatever issue that affected the results, but very possibly a “fairness” issue. From what I’ve gathered from the information you’ve shared, David, your family is paying for facilities at the low rate. If you end up with 6 children (only for the purposes of example) added to the system, it will be others who pay for the increased capacity for them. Not you.
A couple of points in response. If I add six children to the system, that is six children that forestalls declining enrollment so that is a net plus for the community.
Second, while you may be right on some of those points, it is indeed the more conservative parts of the town that opposed that also the areas as you leave the core. And interestingly enough the areas most likely to have children which is somewhat strange.
As I have said before, I will pay at least as much as those paying the parcel tax in donations to the school district.
I don’t know the actual demographics, but do the red areas contain less apartments and rental houses than the green areas? I’m guessing that’s the case by looking at the map. It’s more about representation without taxation
than it is a conservative vrs. liberal issue. It’s easy to say yes to a tax that someone else has to pay.
hpierce: [i]but ALSO for the renovation/replacement.[/i]
I’m still digesting this, but for the sake of argument: many residents in the newer areas get to use the already existing facilities — Holmes & Emerson JH, DHS, for instance. These facilities were built by funds paid for by residents who lived in the older core areas in previous decades. Wouldn’t you think there is some fairness that the newer (and even more affluent areas, in many cases) pay their share of renovation/replacement costs?
ha ha! the tax almost failed even though there was almost no organized opposition, and even after they bought votes from seniors with a discriminatory exemption. oh well.
Musser, exactly. Maybe next time they’ll have to find another group to exempt because this was too close for their comfort.
I think that people will be watching carefully on how the District uses this money. The next school bond will have to deal with the increases in monthly water and sewer bills (an increase from an average of $35 to $116 per month for water alone.) Eventually, it will be just too much. The District really needs to start looking at how it will cut back, become smaller, and still retain sacred programs. Maybe some classes could become larger (lecture/discussion model) to be able to retain smaller classes in others. We need to re-think how many AP Courses we are offering. Do we really need to provide these?
I’d like to offer a couple of thoughts:
1. The outcome here is close because of the 2/3 majority requirement. In a simple majority election, this would be a landslide. The “people” of Davis clearly support issues which they believe lead to a better public education.
2. For those of you making the point about representation without taxation, that happens every day with our state and federal income taxes. Approximately 50% of the population does not pay income taxes, yet they are allowed to vote for our representatives which ultimately enact tax legislation. Many of the polls which support higher taxes for Californians include folks who never pay taxes. Taxation has not been fair to everyone subjected to it for a long, long time, and probably never will be.
3. Hpierce – your points about folks that have 6 kids in school not paying their “fare share” is appropriate, but again, that is true in almost any taxation discussion.
4. Full Disclosure – I voted for Measure A because I believe that a high quality school system is critical for creating a positive future for Davis. I am hopeful that the temporary increase might get us through until state funding improves. But the district needs to work very hard to reduce expenses, and create a system that allows our best teachers to be fairly paid and retain their jobs, while the less qualified teachers are not as well paid and are the ones who are “pinked slipped” when we need to cut costs.
“ha ha! the tax almost failed even though there was almost no organized opposition, and even after they bought votes from seniors with a discriminatory exemption. oh well.”
You forgot to mention the inherent advantage that opponents only needed one vote for every two the supporters got.
David:[i]”it is indeed the more conservative [b]parts of the town that opposed that also the areas as you leave the core. And interestingly enough the areas most likely to have children which is somewhat strange.[/b]”[/i]
Delaine Eastin:[i] “I want to say that I live in Davis, California,” she continued. “I’m one of the unlucky people who didn’t have my own children, but I live here because I want to live in a town that cares about [b]its children.[/b]”[/i]
Richard Harris: [i]”at the end of the day it’s only about [b]the kids[/b] and once again Davis steps up to the plate.”[/i]
Sheila Allen: [i]”This shows that even during these tough times and even in what was not a very easy or truth be told not a very well organized campaign that they still came through for [b]the kids.[/b]” [/i]
See the pattern?
Congratulations Davis for perpetuating public school mediocrity by buying into the myth that this is about “the kids”.
We are not served well by funding more of the same… we need a completeK-12 education paradigm shift, but the best we can do is to fight for the status quo and then pat ourselves on the back for increases taxes to ensure “no change!” Think about it: K-12 education takes up 30% of our state budget, yet we don’t demand improvements leading to higher quality and greater value. With this, there are no comparisons except maybe the US Postal Service and the DMV (although I think DMV service has been modernized and improved over the years). The problem with these comparisons is that there is NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT than the quality of education that young people receive on their path to helping themselves, and helping this country, stay on top.
Ask yourself: where are the proposals for education reform? Why are we not talking about improvement and only talking about funding? Every proposition we approve sentences our kids and our country to certain decline in our standard of living.
I hereby change the term “Davis progressives” to “Davis stasists”, and look forward to the day when more of them “get it” that our public education system is an ancient and monolithic system that significantly fails to meet modern expectations.
“We need to re-think how many AP Courses we are offering. Do we really need to provide these? “
Do you think that makes a difference in funding? Unless the classes are not full, it matters not. We either provide the classroom for AP or for non-AP. Now if we have a half full classroom, then you have a point.
In terms of do we really need to provide them? Only if we want our students have every advantage when entering the college market. I interviewed an intern yesterday who is graduating after 3 years and a quarter at UCD in part because of the transferability of AP classes for college credit.
“Congratulations Davis for perpetuating public school mediocrity by buying into the myth that this is about “the kids”.” – if Davis is an example of mediocrity then I am a bit stunned. To me, if every school district were like Davis, we wouldn’t be having this debate.
Sheila Allen
“….some time in the next 12 months we are going to have to do another parcel tax…”
You have got to be kidding!
As I said Measure P and Q are expiring that’s $320 a year.
David, see this: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U&feature=related[/url]
For the record–and for bragging rights–I predicted this outcome almost exactly. Yes won with 67.2%. My pre-election forecast was Yes would win with 67.3%.
See my post ([url]http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/measure-a-votes-due-tuesday-trustees-dismayed-by-complaint/#comment-18532[/url]) date stamped [b]May 2, 2011 – 11:27 pm[/b].
I think this election should be a wake-up call for the school district. It’s pretty obvious that people expect them to be accountable for exactly what it is they’re doing with the money and a significant number of people are getting tired of the yearly “hands out for more money”. It’s quite possible another vote will not work out in their favor.
It just seems like the two-thirds rule creates a convoluted situation where less than a third of the voters who showed up at the polls (or mailed in their ballots in this case) are sending any kind of message to the district. I get the math but it seems like a weird argument to make.
Most folks in El Macero can afford to pay the extra $200 so I am a bit disappointed it didn’t carry there (maybe they can have their own school district). It would be interesting to know more about the demographics of the vote, but that is confidential.
The bottom line is that Measure A passed but next time maybe not…
In my opinion, school parcel taxes will always pass in Davis, unless there are extraordinary circumstances at the time of the vote to deny them. The previous two passed more easily than this one, largely (or perhaps entirely) because of our distressed economy.
If the economy recovers before we again vote on renewing previous parcel taxes, the renewal votes will win with 70% or more. There is a widespread belief among Davis voters–going back more than 40 years–that if the school district asks for more money, it deserves more money. That is just the nature of politics in this town.
Perhaps the only type of local vote which is more predictable, now, is that if there is a vote on a new peripheral housing development (Measure R), the voters will turn it down. Since Measure J was approved in March of 2000, no proposal has succeeded. The haves don’t want to let in the have-nots.
FWIW, the tradition of blocking growth in Davis is at least 40 years old. However, it was not until the late 1990s, I think, that a permanent majority formed around the idea of voting down all new housing projects on our periphery.
David, Starting with the Freshman class of 2012, AP courses will no longer satisfy GE requirements at UC Davis. These courses may be accepted as fulfilling major requirements, but not general education requirements. No longer will students be able to complete GE requirements by taking 6 courses. Students will need to take 32 units of GE coursework to graduate. So the idea that you can complete two quarters of college during High School by taking AP courses won’t happen for UC Davis any longer. They might help students get into a particular college by boosting their GPA (if they earn A’s in the courses), but universities take into account how many AP courses are offered at the student’s High School during the admission process. If these courses enroll fewer than 30 – 45 students (a typical college course at a community college and other non-AP high school courses), then they should be canceled.
The point is that if students can handle college level work, then they can handle a more college-like environment. Bigger lectures with small weekly discussion sections, shorter in length & more intense classes instead of the year-long courses, hire short-term lecturers/instructors to better manage impacted courses. The District should look at innovative ways to deliver the curriculum now, keeping in mind that the next school bond may not pass.
“Most folks in El Macero can afford to pay the extra $200 so I am a bit disappointed it didn’t carry there (maybe they can have their own school district). It would be interesting to know more about the demographics of the vote, but that is confidential.”
Dr. Wu, that’s because there’s not many apartments or rentals in El Macero.
It didn’t pass there because the people voting in El Macero actually had to pay the $200 if they voted yes.
It should be noted by the school district that polls taken before Measure A was codified into a specific dollar amount for approval, it showed $200 was the absolute limit people were willing to pay. That is precisely what the vote showed. Had the school district asked for any more than $200, the outcome most likely would have been far different. My guess is that Measure A would have failed. I would say the school district needs to think about that if they are even considering RAISING THE PARCEL TAX, rather then just continuing the existing parcel taxes. The fact of the matter is, taxpayers’ collective pockets are not bottomless. Many have been hit w layoffs, furloughs, salary decreases.
Secondly, there was an implication that somehow “conservatives” did not vote for Measure A. First, how the heck would anyone know if that was true? Second, who is defined as “conservative” and how? Thirdly, what in heaven’s name do Tea Partiers have to do w Measure A? What I take out of such nonsense is just more of the usual “let’s blame the “right” (whoever that is)” for not voting for Measure A – as if the proponents of Measure A somehow have a lock on purity and all that is good and right in the world. Anyone who didn’t vote for Measure A just doesn’t care about “the kids” and do not have their priorities straight.
Personally, I don’t vote on issues based on whether they are “left” or “right”. I vote based on the issue at hand regardless of the political rhetoric that is being thrown around at the time. In short, I vote my conscience. It is what I believe everyone has A RIGHT to do. They should not be “guilted” into voting for or against things. If proponents of Measure A are upset bc of the negativity of the Measure A “campaign”, they need look no further than directly in the mirror.
I could tell everyone how I voted on Measure A, but I always make it a policy never to reveal what is my personal business. It is between me and the ballot box and that is where it should remain. It is my right to vote the way I see fit, without being made to feel if I don’t vote a certain way, somehow I’m less worthy…
“Secondly, there was an implication that somehow “conservatives” did not vote for Measure A.”
There are reasons for that belief.
First, the people who on here who have indicated opposition to the Measure have tended to be more conservative.
Second, looking at the voting results, we know that the more conservative areas of town were the ones that did not reach the two-thirds plateau.
And finally, there is the ideological issue conservatives are more opposed to taxes and less likely to support public education.
Is it perfect? No. But look at the polling breakdown and the difference was start. I am not even sure that Measure A reached majority among self-proclaimed conservatives. That doesn’t mean that liberals were 100% for it, they weren’t but they were 90 percent for it or close to that figure.
Does that mean that we can predict an individual from group dynamics? no.
Elaine: Great letter in the Enterprise Tuesday. The state universities playing favorites to out of state students for higher tuition revenue is another example of “caring for the kids” being a disengenuous cry.
“I am not even sure that Measure A reached majority among self-proclaimed conservatives. That doesn’t mean that liberals were 100% for it, they weren’t but they were 90 percent for it or close to that figure.”
And all those who didn’t have to actually pay the tax were 99.9% for it.
Ever wonder why it’s the mostly the same group of people posting? The Vanguard seems to have become the forum of choice for anti-tax, conservative corporate politics whenever the topic is public funding of public services. Typical of this group is that they have never seen a public service that was worth a public dime, at least not their pubic dime. Will reasonable, communitarian politics (which aren’t even left, just common sense) be able to hold on to a 2/3 margin that we’ve collectively decided is necessary for a decent society? I guess time will tell.
[i]”First, the people who on here who have indicated opposition to the Measure have tended to be more conservative.”[/i]
Aside from the circular argument that conservatives in general favor lower taxes, I would guess that conservative parents are more likely* to send their kids to parochial schools. If someone is sending his kid to St. James or to Grace Valley Christian Academy or to one of the other religious schools, such conservatives would probably not want to pay more in a parcel tax for the public schools.
*I’m not saying that all parents who send their kids to private schools are conservatives. I know some liberal Catholics who have kids at St. James.
JB
Please explain how you think that state university admission processes have anything to do with those of us who truly believe that Measure was about caring for the education of our children who are not yet at the university level.
And by your use of the word disingenuous, I guess you do not share Elaine’s view that ” without being made to feel that if I do not vote a certain somehow I am less worthy …”
Rifkin
I am not sure that is true about parents who send their kids to parochial schools being less willing to pay more in a parcel tax for the public schools. When my daughter was in St.Francis and my son’s application was in to Jesuit, I was still in favor of supporting the public schools.
You don’t have to be a liberal or a conservative to realize that the majority of our children will be in public schools and the education of these children needs to be a major public priority. This is about much more than the ability of the individual being able to acquire wealth after completing their education. It is about these students developing a sense of themselves in relation to their community and finding value in contributing. Where better to learn that than from their parent’s willingness to contribute.
[quote]She sees this as a vindication, but also a wake up call. “I hope this is a wake up call to the community as a whole not to get crankier, not that kind of a wake up call,” she said, “but a wake up call that if they truly value this – [b]because some time in the next 12 months we are going to have to do another parcel tax[/b] – we need other parents and other community members to step up and say that schools are important, I am going to step up and make it happen.”
Sheila Allen was referring to the renewal of Measure Q and Measure W which are set to expire some time in 2012. If the results of this are any indication, that will be a difficult sell to the public, even if that is merely an extension of the existing parcel taxes with no additional money.
However, [b]the temptation may be to increase the parcel tax because, unfortunately, at this point it looks that Measure A will not cover the full budget deficit. Sheila Allen hopes not that much, and not as much as there would have been,[/b] had Measure A not passed. [/quote]
The ink is not even dry and already the school board is beginning the pitch for an even bigger Q and W.
dmg: “[quote]First, the people who on here who have indicated opposition to the Measure have tended to be more conservative.
Second, looking at the voting results, we know that the more conservative areas of town were the ones that did not reach the two-thirds plateau.
And finally, there is the ideological issue conservatives are more opposed to taxes and less likely to support public education.”[/quote]
And so who exactly do you define as a “conservative” and where exactly is the “conservative” part of town?
Jeff Boone: [quote]Elaine: Great letter in the Enterprise Tuesday. The state universities playing favorites to out of state students for higher tuition revenue is another example of “caring for the kids” being a disengenuous cry.[/quote]
If this country doesn’t get its collective act together, I think we are headed for big trouble…
wesley506: [quote]The ink is not even dry and already the school board is beginning the pitch for an even bigger Q and W.[/quote]
Boggles the mind, doesn’t it?
Medwoman: [i] Please explain how you think that state university admission processes have anything to do with those of us who truly believe that Measure was about caring for the education of our children who are not yet at the university level.[/i]
Follow the money… it does not flow to the kids. The kids are used as fear pawns in a game of looters and moochers against the producers. The UC system is top-heavy and bloated… yet they raise tuition and reject more in-state applications instead of consolidating management positions and administrative functions. Then the union members march with signs claiming they are protecting the kids. You know and I know that they are protecting themselves at the expense of the kids. They bank on miss-placed voter apathy, fear and anger over reduced education services… the same tactic used by all that want to collect more money to fund the current system.
[i]I guess you do not share Elaine’s view that ” without being made to feel that if I do not vote a certain somehow I am less worthy [/i]
Belonging to the minority party in this town and state, I have a lot of practice disregarding how others might assess my worthiness. We are all entitled to different opinions, ideas and votes. I respect that diversity even though I might disagree with the end result.
I just think you don’t get it yet. But you and others will eventually. Remember that you didn’t know you wanted, and then needed, the Internet, a PC, a smart phone or an iPad… any of these things… until others had the initial vision and gave you time to absorb the need for change. These things were paradigm-shifting inventions. Now we need a great number of paradigm-shifting inventions for K-12 education. The old system is not worth saving… it has outlived its use and need by at least 20 years.
Why don’t we get Nordstrom’s-style service quality for K-12 education? Why do Sutter Health and Kaiser Health Care constantly survey me to understand how they can improve, yet the school system, a much less complicated operation, never bother to do the same?
Why do private companies gobble up best practice concepts like TQM, Six Sigma and Lean to do more with less, but the humongous, budget-gobbling K-12 education system combats even the simplest and most fundamental improvement concept of tying pay to teachers performance?
JB: When I watch the Ken Robinson video you post (I’ve seen that half a dozen times already), I agree with much of what he observes, and I find that many options he suggests are available in the schools now.
What do you think of the Da Vinci program? Seems like it has some of the pedagogical creativity and innovation that you’re craving.
He decries the de-emphasis on the arts. DHS has arts programs in spades. You mentioned that one of your own sons was quite involved in symphonic and jazz band. If he was in the latter, then I know he must have been quite good.
If a student is more content learning by him- or herself, DSIS can be perfect for that.
King HS offers other tailored alternatives.
If it’s the traditional sit down classwork model that upsets you, some form of that will continue to exist as long as that is the standard mode for college delivery of education. We live in a college town. That’s what you’re up against.
I’m not for “blowing up a failing system” in Davis, because I think it is working for most students and it continues to improve. I prefer to see thoughtful and well-developed alternatives first. That’s how we got Da Vinci HS. It was modelled on a similar program in another district.
[i]Why don’t we get Nordstrom’s-style service quality for K-12 education?[/i]
Because we’re not shopping for clothes.
Okay, seriously. Are there schools out there that offer what you’d consider Nordstrom’s style service quality for K-12 education, and that take on any student that the public schools take on? If so, I’m willing to listen.
[i]even the simplest and most fundamental improvement concept of tying pay to teachers performance?[/i]
How do you measure performance without testing students to death? which is something I’m not thrilled about, nor is Ken Robinson.
Sometimes my kids have had great teachers, and no complaints from me. Sometimes their teachers haven’t been an ideal fit, but we take that as a learning opportunity for learning how to adjust to certain styles and personalities. I’m not looking to be catered to 100%, here.
I remember teachers that I had that for a while I thought were pretty bad, but then later started to recognize were actually good in some aspects to my later experience, and likewise, some teachers that I initially thought were good, but on later reflection didn’t find to be as challenging or memorable an experience.
In broad parameters I think you can make some clear evaluations — is the kid regularly miserable in this situation, or is he reasonably engaged.
I remember in my high school experience a chemistry teacher who taught the course more like a college chem class, and expected college level maturity and performance among students. But some parents of classmates complained that she was too tough. How do you evaluate her? I thought she was great and influenced my life, but others didn’t think so at the time. I wonder what my complaining classmates would say of her now. What if the issue is the maturity of the kid? How do you evaluate her?
I don’t necessarily think you can measure customer satisfaction in education the way you measure customer satisfaction in ordering fast food or most other commercial services.
JB
You make a very telling statement . “You know and I know that they are protecting themselves at the expense of the kids.” No, Jeff , we don’t both know this. You believe it, and because you do you feel that others should as well. We happen to look at the same set of circumstances and interpret them differently. It seems to me from your multiple posts citing the ” looters and moochers” vs the producers that you see the entire world through a very simplistic scheme of the “good guy”free marketers vs everyone else. I simply do not believe that all good is derived from a free market system. What I do believe is tbat all systems have their strengths and weaknesses. The free market of which you are so enamored was the same system that for many years allowed child labor in extremely dangerous conditions. Did it also provide all the innovations you noted, absolutely. Is it perfect or at times even humane.
Absolutely not. Public education is no different than any other system in terms of having it’s pros and cons. I am in agreement with wdf1
That the public education system is not directly comparable to Nordstroms, has strengths as well as weaknesses that we can build upon rather than being destructive or “knee-jerk”negative in our approach.
Ok… County Elections said that 38% of the registered voters cast ballots… to be charitable, let’s make that 39% (also, makes math easier)… 2/3rd’s of that 39% = ~ 26% of eligible voters. Many eligible voters (no clue whether they voted or not) are UCD students, who know that it was unlikely (leaving in June, or leases already signed for next year) that the impact of the increase would NOT be felt by them. Add the “seniors” who can choose whether they pay the tax or not. “Seniors” tend to have (traditionally) the highest voter turnout rates, particularly for local tax measures. So… it is a ‘fact’ that 26% of voters imposed an additional $200 assessment on 100% of the residential property. Still overwhelming support?
My guess is less than 10 percent of students voted. I would guess at least half of the voters are students, a good chunk of those are expired registrations and moved, so I think it’s a lot higher percentage of the permanent resident voters than 26%.
Agreed.. but can you claim “overwhelming support from the community”, or is it more accurate to say “overwhelming support from those who took the time to vote because they felt passionately one way or the other”?
BTW, the fact that 61% did not vote is appalling… they obviously didn’t grow up in a totalitarian regime and recognize that the right to vote is precious, and/or don’t understand that voting is a responsibility as much as a right… when people want to grouse to me about the outcome of an election, I generally ask if they voted… if not, end of discussion. Also, one of the reasons the calculated turnout was so low is due to the high “turnover” in this community. Some eligible voters never register as they know they are only going to be here for a relatively short period of time. Others register & move on but there isn’t much of a system to ‘purge’ these from the voting rolls… I can’t prove 26%, but I believe you would have a hard time proving overwhelming community support. The “true answer probably lies between the two.
Everyone who voted “yes” has the right to donate $220, $300, $400, $1,000, etc. to the schools to ease their needs. As a society, we tend to like to politic and compel others to act out based on our convictions (even if we have an “out” in the way of an exemption).
DGM: [i]My guess is less than 10 percent of students voted.[/i]
I would surmise that it was very few students; possibly less than 5%. This was a single issue election. If a voter didn’t have strong feelings about the local schools or about parcel taxes, then they were less likely to vote.
hpierce: [i]BTW, the fact that 61% did not vote is appalling…[/i]
This was a single issue election. If a voter didn’t have strong feelings about the local schools or about parcel taxes, then they were less likely to vote.
Not voting is also a democratic choice.
The point is, 26% of the eligible voters decided this. To claim “uber-victory” is hollow. I already acknowledged your point regarding the fact that predominantly, folks who had strong feelings were those who voted. I have been a voter for nearly 40 years and have not failed to vote. Unlike those who want to force others to “donate” as they would like, I have not said anything to imply that I would ‘force’ others to vote. They do, in my opinion, lose their right to grouse, at least to me. I believe your basic point is, that if people do not think as you do, they are misinformed/wrong. That is your right to make that point. BTW… I am a staunch liberal, but I am not a “bullet” voter. I vote based on the merits/problems with candidates and issues. Both “conservatives” and “liberals” tend to denigrate people like me who don’t toe “the party line” on every issue. No more missives from me on this subject.
medwoman: It is simple. My expectations are much higher than yours concerning education quality. The statement [i]”That the public education system is not directly comparable to Nordstroms, has strengths as well as weaknesses that we can build upon rather than being destructive or “knee-jerk” negative in our approach.”[/i] is telling of your belief.
You can certainly take the approach to “build on” since that is what the unions and the employees of the system want: just send more money so they can do more stuff. The problem with that approach is that there is no more money. Davis is one of very few places where voters will tax themselves more to protect a status quo that they value. So, assuming there is no more money to spend, how do you improve the system? Oh wait… nobody in any leadership postitions are even talking about improving the system, are they?
We need drastic reform for doing much more with less. Do you disagree? How do you propose to make improvements? Or, are you comfortable that Davis ignores the larger problems because of our fortune having a brainy student gene pool? I think that would be a mistake as we would then lag behind the reforms that are occuring and will keep occuring all over the country.
wdf1: [i]”How do you measure performance without testing students to death?”[/i]
Good question. I will post something later that explains this. It is not rocket science. Let’s just say that it is a very common practice to have one’s performance accessed and have some percentage of pay dependent on performance.
[i]”I don’t necessarily think you can measure customer satisfaction in education the way you measure customer satisfaction in ordering fast food or most other commercial services.”[/i]
Maybe not fast food, but I completely disagree with the inference of this statement. You most certainly can measure customer satisfaction with complex services. Some of the best healthcare providers do a great job at this. It is a sub process of a larger “constant improvement” management system.
I have about 15 employees reporting to me. I survey them on their job satisfaction twice a year. We track the trends and make adjustments based on the results. Note also that I work with each employee individually to set performance expectations and to establish job growth and development plans and direct and coach them. That takes much more work than having me just set some base common expectations for all. If I was lazy, I would just do that… set the same expectations and rules for all based on some narrow template and ignore their individual uniqueness, strengths and challenges.
I worked for VSP. VSP surveys their customers, their doctors and their employees. The results are major factors in the bonus program.
All well-run organizations do these things because they work.
When I get a bit of time, I will post my ideas for how to measure teacher and school performance. Like I said, it is not rocket science.
For those of you wishing to debate whether or not the majority of Davis citizens support Measure A, remember that on Measure P only about 12,500 folks voted. In general, the rule that folks only vote on what they care strongly about is correct, and that is why Measure J is so powerful. Folks who don’t particularly care whether or not new development occurs generally will not vote. That leaves that care strongly (either developer types or “no growthers”). Obviously, the “no growthers” outnumber the developers, so Measure J becomes an almost impossible hurdle at this point in time. But neither the Measure A vote or the Measure J votes necessarily correctly record the opinion of the citizens of Davis, as long as we have only 30% turnout.
hpierce: [i] So… it is a ‘fact’ that 26% of voters imposed an additional $200 assessment on 100% of the residential property. Still overwhelming support?[/i]
Another way to look at it is that only 13% of all voters cared enough to vote against it.
wdf1: [i]”How do you measure performance without testing students to death?”[/i]
Here is a link to a school district in Colorado that is one of the leaders trying to improve the quality of education with a comprehensive performance management system:
[url]http://www.hsd2.org/departments/human-resources/eandr#systemicreform [/url]
[url]http://www.hsd2.org/departments/human-resources/evaluations [/url]
The first link covers an important best practice concept for performance management systems:
[quote] Reformed systems would include the following:
1) instructional leaders who understand what good instruction looks like and who are held accountable for improving the quality of instruction,
2) a culture of instructional feedback in which classroom instruction is observed and effective feedback is given regularly and consistently,
3) evaluation instruments that focus on the quality of instruction, differentiates teacher effectiveness, and includes measurable and observable outputs/criteria of teacher effectiveness,
4) a system that collects and analyzes student achievement data and uses that data to improve instruction.
5) a system of support and professional development that helps both administrators and teachers improve instruction.
[/quote]
Here are the key elements of a “lean” philosophy:
-Customer demand drives all service activity.
-Customer perspective determines value.
-Organizational processes are designed to maximize results.
-Continuous improvement is strongly emphasized throughout all operations.
-Enabling individual employees to have better control and responsibility in the business process.
Developing a performance measurement system requires we first determine the following:
1.What are the goals we want to achieve?
2.What are the specific measurable results that contribute to the achievement of the goals?
3.What are the specific measurable individual performance behaviors that contribute to achieving the results?
You then create the performance assessments and compensation system from this hierarchy. #1 are the organizational measures. #2 are the team/department/group measures. #3 are the individual employee measures.
Let’s say one of the goals is for the school is that the teachers and administrators be more responsive to requests from parents. A survey sent to parents and the returns demonstrate at least 85% agree that the employees are responsive. The survey questions can be simply: “Did the teachers meet your expectations for responsiveness (e.g., returning calls and emails within 24 hours) – Yes/No?”; “Did the administrative employees meet your expectations for responsiveness (e.g., returning calls and emails within 24 hours) – Yes/No?”. If the “percent success” is less than 85%, then the teacher bonus pool is reduced. If it is more than 85% then it is increased.
For a teacher assessment survey sent to students and parents, I would include the following:
1.Did the teacher meet your expectations for knowing the subject matter?
2.Did the teacher meet your expectations demonstrating effective teaching skills?
3.Did the teacher meet your expectation for engaging you and keeping you interested in the subject matter?
4.Did the teacher meet your expectations for being helpful and available?
The results of this survey combined with teacher peer reviews, a formal evaluation from the principle, the overall school performance relative to the goals set, would be the basis for calculating a performance grade and a corresponding bonus. Below a certain grade, there would be no bonus and the lowest-graded teachers would be put on “job in jeopardy” status with a plan for improvement over the next review cycle.
JB
A couple of points:
1) you ask what are my suggestions for improvement. I have posted a number of specific recommendations for how I would start on previous
threads.
You have never chosen to respond to the substance of those ideas, but instead have repeatedly only claimed that you clearly have higher
expectations than I do and have fallen back on your usual “looters and moochers”ideology.
2) I agree with a number of your suggestions for assessing and improving teacher performance. However, this kind of assessment, in a field that is almost 100% dependent on the subtleties of human interactions, t is anything but simple as you have implied.
I work with one of the large, high performing health care systems you allude to, and having been in administration for the past 5 years I can tell you that designing measures that are fair, balanced, and continue to promote on going optimal performance is much more complicated than “was your phone call answered within 24 hours?”
[i]I work with one of the large, high performing health care systems you allude to, and having been in administration for the past 5 years I can tell you that designing measures that are fair, balanced, and continue to promote on going optimal performance is much more complicated than “was your phone call answered within 24 hours?” [/i]
But medwoman, does your company have periodic employee reviews which attempt to evaluate and reward performance in an way that attempts to be fair and balanced? Most high performing companies do have evaluation and review systems, so that the best performers are recognized for their contribution.
The teachers’ union (and perhaps the school board) is very tone deaf about this issue. Comments like those from medwoman are common for every industry and company. There will alway be unfairness in any evaluation system, regardless of how long it is tweaked. Regardless, except for the most poorly designed evaluation systems, it is very unfair to the “owners and users” – ie taxpayers and students, as well as to the teachers themselves – to have no evaluation system, and no way of eliminating the lowest performers, especially when downsizing is required in order to balance budgets. The last hired, first fired system used by many teachers unions is ridiculous. Longevity in a system is not necessarily equivalent to high performance or most valuable.
medwoman: I will have to go back and read to see your recommendations. I missed them somehow.
I used simplifying examples in my suggestions for assessment questions. However, I dissagree that designing measures that continue to promote ongoing optimal performance is complicated. Lack of familiarity and lack of experience with the practice and principles would make it seem complicated. However, it really does not matter how complicated it seems… private business has to do this to compete to survive. With most of the rest of the world, the expectations bar has continually raised. This is a good thing. The education system is so far behind on these practices that it is embarassing.
[i] “a field that is almost 100% dependent on the subtleties of human interactions”[/i]… what does this mean?
Adam Smith
Yes, we have a number of performance evaluations, some mimetic indicators, some patient serveys, some peer review . My point was not that these forms of evaluation are not useful, My comments were directed ay Jeff’s implication that this is very simple and that his version of application of free market principles will solve all. “Almost 100 % dependent ….” was meant to differentiate the relatively simple interaction between for instance a sales person at Nordstrom’s helping you find the right pair of shoes from the much more complex interactions between a teacher and 20 to 30 students each with their highly individual interests, capabilities, learning styles to say nothing of the various interpersonal challenges that each may be facing at home and with their peers. I think very few of us who are not teachers have to face these kinds of complexities on a daily basis.
I don’ object to the idea of merit evaluates. I just don’t see it as as simple a proposition as some would portray.and I certainly don’t see it as a panacea.
Thanks medwoman.
In my corporate life, we learned that “you get what you pay for”, meaning that employees will work hard to accomplish what you pay them for. If the review and reward systems are misguided, then you get misguided results. And we often found that constant tinkering was necessary to redirect behaviors of our employees.
But I want to reiterate – I am convinced that we would have failed if we had no review and reward system to guide employee behaviors and energies. All jobs should have a periodic review of performance, employees should be judged on their performance, and should know that lower performing employees will be eliminated if poor performance continues. I don’t think it is possible to have a high performing system or company unless you correct the behaviors and improve the outcomes of the lowest performing employees, and reward the best performing employees. Almost certainly, there will be some unfairness and unjust outcomes – but the number of them will be much less than with the lack of any system at all.
Adam Smith
And I agree tbat some system of incentives is very valuable. I also agree completely with an ongoing performance review system. However, I do not believe that the rewards need always be financial. I also do not believe that the “lower performing” employees living in fear of losing their jobs is necessarily good policy, especially in a complex system where performance is not as easily measured as how many purses sold or widgets inspected.
I also agree that you get what you pay for, but from a slightly different angle. We have found that to attract the best candidates we have to provide a very competitive salary. In health care, of course it is critical to attract the best. It may be that in many businesses this is not as critical. I believe that in education, we do not offer a rewards system that is adequate to attract the very best candidates on a consistent basis.
Sometimes we are fortunate and we get excellent teachers because of their passion for the profession, their love of a subject, or their love of working with children. However, I feel that are teachers are neither honored nor compensated to a level commensurate with their responsibility
And too often we do indeed “get what we pay for.”
Finally, I do not think this is an all or none situation comparing a a potentially unjust system with no system at all. Evaluation systems can be designed that have system improvement, not the penalization of individuals as their goal.I know that in my department, we are continuously moving towards a system that maximizes everyone’s strengths, encourages them to partner with others In areas of relative weakness so as to maximize the care of our patients. This can only be achieved in an atmosphere of trust in which people are collaborative and not afraid that a misstep will lead to their dismissal.