ChamberPAC Appears to Oppose Furloughs without an Alternative if Prop 30 Fails – The Davis Business community has been very strongly supportive of the Davis Public School System and once again have come out in favor of the parcel tax.
In a press release this week, they write: “Since 1992, when the State of California began taking additional local property taxes from cities to help fund state programs, the voters of Davis have taxed themselves to pay for amenities like high-quality parks, schools and libraries. The Davis Chamber of Commerce has been proud to support these efforts since 1997.”
“We support Measure E to ensure that Davis classroom sizes are small and our campuses are safe,” they add. “Those funds also ensure that students have access to many different types of educational opportunities like foreign languages and Career Technical Education that will prepare them for higher education and provide them with the skills to enter the workforce.”
Measure E is a four-year renewal of the yearly $200/parcel and $20/apartment tax passed in 2011, as a direct response to deeper cuts in education enacted by the State of California.
In addition, Measure E authorizes the DJUSD School Board to assess an additional $242/parcel and $0/apartment if Proposition 30 fails on November 6, 2012. The failure of Proposition 30 would trigger an immediate budget cut of $3.7 million to our local schools.
“High-quality public schools are a major component of economic development in Davis,” the Chamber writes. “With this gem, it is much easier to attract new high-paying jobs to Davis. In turn, new high-paying jobs will bring more families to Davis that will help counter the trend of our graying population and decreasing school enrollment. Measure E is an investment in Davis.”
In today’s paper, the Chamber PAC also comes out in favor of Measure E, but in an op-ed from Steve Greenfield, Joy Cohan, Kemble Pope, Tom Cross and Michael Bisch they also oppose teacher furloughs.
They write: “If Measure E is not successful, one of the potential consequences is to have fewer weeks of education. The budget would be trimmed by paying the teachers less, which some purport would translate to furloughs and shorter school sessions. Furloughs are detrimental not only to the quality of students’ education, but ultimately to economic development and, by extension, the community.”
“In these economic times, there are numerous private sector workers who are working harder for longer hours and less pay due to circumstances beyond their control. But, most do so willingly, realizing that this alternative certainly beats one where they lose their jobs entirely,” they add.
“However, it seems there is a gaping chasm between the private sector and the public sector. Quality education most certainly is being threatened in our community, much like the viability of many businesses,” the ChamberPAC writes.
But then things get a little more interesting.
“Yet, teacher furloughs are being considered?” they ask. “Not only does the furloughed teacher suffer the stress of trying to perform a job that requires their full attention in fewer classroom hours, but the students suffer by losing the opportunity to learn or having to learn the same material in less time.”
They continue: “The aftermath will be a weakened school district and a deteriorating Davis community. When has the Davis community ever willingly elected to go backwards? Not on our watch!”
The problem is that they do not connect the issue of furloughs to the correct issue here. In fact, furloughs will likely be outside of the realm of Davis voter’s control, except insofar as they impact the outcome of the statewide Proposition 30.
We need to go back to the Chamber’s comment that “the failure of Proposition 30 would trigger an immediate budget cut of $3.7 million to our local schools.” If that happens, even if Measure E passes, we will need to cut that money immediately in January. That is where the issue of furloughs comes from.
So they can ask, “When has the Davis community ever willingly elected to go backwards? Not on our watch!” But it is really something out of the hands of the local community.
The ChamberPAC is absolutely correct when they argue: “In addition to students suffering, businesses also will feel the effect of furloughs. Every teacher furlough day in the DJUSD results in untold numbers of parental absences from their workplaces. Not only does this result in reduced productivity in the local economy, but the ultimate financial burden of these furloughs is borne by the parents – the heart of our workforce – who either lose pay when staying home to care for their children, or who are forced to spend part of that day’s pay hiring a child care provider so they can continue to work and keep their jobs.”
And they should be commended for seeing the connection between education and the local economy.
They continue: “Teacher furloughs deliver neither short-term nor long-term benefits to children, their education, the local business environment, economic development or the quality of life in Davis. It is simply unacceptable to favor an increase in local property taxes to ensure quality schools, yet simultaneously accept teacher furloughs that shorten the school year!”
Again, it seems that they do not understand the issues here. The teacher furloughs would only occur if Proposition 30 fails – it again has nothing to do with the local property taxes because even though Measure E has contingency language to cover Proposition 30’s failure, that contingency language would not take effect until July when the new tax rolls come in.
There is a six month, $3.7 million gap that would not be covered and that is the reason for the need for furloughs.
Why furloughs? That is the simplest way to cut operating expenses for one-time money. You end up not laying off staff that you would need replace (and you could not do mid-school year).
Some have suggested that the district should simply cut the pay of teachers and staff rather than close down the schools. That might be plausible if teachers were willing to accept a temporary pay decrease.
But right now, it appears that they are not even willing to do the full ten-day furlough that would produce enough money.
There may be alternative solutions here that could avoid furloughs. But the ChamberPAC in their op-ed is not proposing them. They could help the Davis Schools Foundation attempt to raise that money – it’s a lot of money and they would have very little time to do so to impact January.
So while one has a difficult time attempting to argue with their values and when they state: “Like all Davisites, the Davis Chamber PAC values education and prioritizes efforts, such as Measure E, to ensure Davis’ stature among school districts statewide. But the Chamber PAC goes beyond this common Davis sentiment to advocate for pro-education policies that also are not only pro-business, but pro-community.
“Strong educational programs cannot survive without a strong business climate. A strong business climate is not possible without strong educational programs. And a vibrant, sustainable community is not possible in the absence of either of the others.”
The problem is that, other than furloughs, I see no alternative solution here to the very real problem if Proposition 30 fails.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
David wrote:
> There may be alternative solutions here that could
> avoid furloughs. But the ChamberPAC in their op-ed
> is not proposing them.
The ChamberPAC is happy that ~450 kids from outside Davis go to school in Davis and that many teachers from outside Davis drive in to town to work every school day.
The ChamberPAC will not want to propose cutting back on the number of teachers, school staff or out of town students because it will reduce the number of shoppers that drive to town each school day.
The ChamberPAC should consider how much all these new state and local parcel taxes are going to hurt Davis businesses.
“Again, it seems that they do not understand the issues here.” Ah, David, I don’t think you’re following the argument. It is logically inconsistent to support a school parcel tax on the one hand while simultaneously supporting shortening the school year. Either one supports a quality education or one doesn’t.
As for bridging the 6-month gap until Measure E kicks in, the op ed suggests emulating the private sector.
“In these economic times, there are numerous private sector workers who are working harder for longer hours and less pay due to circumstances beyond their control. But, most do so willingly, realizing that this alternative certainly beats one where they lose their jobs entirely.”
There is a massive disconnect between the private and public sector. In the private sector, it would be inconceivable to cut service or product quality when the enterprise is struggling. Customers would flee and the enterprise would be toast in short order. It is exactly at such times that ALL stakeholders in the enterprise roll-up their sleeves, work harder and longer to improve quality, not intentionally and willingly do the opposite. Yet that’s exactly what a furlough amounts to.
No one likes having to work, harder and longer for less pay, but one has to do what one has to do. No furoughs.
-Michael Bisch
See, there obviously was at least 1 furough day in my public school education. I have a nasty habit of leaving the “l” out of “furlough”.
-Michael Bisch
[quote]In these economic times, there are numerous private sector workers who are working harder for longer hours and less pay due to circumstances beyond their control. But, most do so willingly, realizing that this alternative certainly beats one where they lose their jobs entirely.” [/quote]
I think Michael has this entirely right as far as he goes. What he does not state is that most teachers already do this in the form of taking papers home to correct at night, staying after to help individual students or speak with worried parents, set up or take down from some production, participate in after hours EIPs, or at the higher grades participate in student trips and write letters of recommendation, all done on their “own time”.
Folks who are asking the teachers to “roll up their shirts sleeves” or “share the pain” are often willing to comment on the teachers shortened work year with comments expressing envy about having the summer off,
but rarely comment on the work day which is typically far longer than 8 hours and frequently involves weekend hours as well. I am not sure exactly what it is that people are asking teachers to do beyond what they have already done that would not necessitate furlough days.
“I don’t think you’re following the argument. It is logically inconsistent to support a school parcel tax on the one hand while simultaneously supporting shortening the school year. Either one supports a quality education or one doesn’t. “
I’m not following the argument because nowhere do I see you lay out how in your piece that there is a six month gap or how that six month gap would be bridged?
I completely agree with your other points, I just don’t see how you get there.
medwoman, just to be clear, I am not denigrating the work that teachers do. Just as I do not denigrate the work that private sector workers do. It’s just that in some instances, enterprises are failing despite the great work of the employees, managers, and owners. In such instances, everybody has to step up their game even if they are already performing at a high level. Either that or fail.
-Michael Bisch
rusty: [i]The ChamberPAC should consider how much all these new state and local parcel taxes are going to hurt Davis businesses.[/i]
That’ like arguing that building that new highway that would bring more customers to our business would actually hurt our business. Or that buying those new computers that would make our business much more efficient would take away from our bottom line. Or that it would be better to hire illiterate workers because it would be cheaper to pay them.
Cutting back on education spending is like consuming your planting seed.
David, if one takes furloughs off the table, that leaves fundraising, asset sales, and short-term employee benefit concessions. Fundraising $3.7 million by January does not seem viable, asset sales maybe, benefit concessions certainly. It’s not that I think the employees deserve to have their pay cut, I just don’t see a way around it if one takes the position that reduced quality is unacceptable. Many undeserved things have happened these past 4 years (small business failures, lost jobs, homes lost, loss of medical coverage, etc.), short-term employee concessions won’t be the last of them.
-Michael Bisch
wdf1:
“rusty: The ChamberPAC should consider how much all these new state and local parcel taxes are going to hurt Davis businesses.
That’ like arguing that building that new highway that would bring more customers to our business would actually hurt our business. Or that buying those new computers that would make our business much more efficient would take away from our bottom line. Or that it would be better to hire illiterate workers because it would be cheaper to pay them.”
No, actually that’s like saying that residents in Davis will have fewer discretionary dollars to be spent on doing commerce with Davis businesses. As residents if we have to pay more in taxes then less is going to be spent elsewhere. Less trips to Davis eateries and less money spent at local businesses will be the result of passage of Prop. 30 and Measure E.
Michael: Your article doesn’t make it clear that what you are proposing is pay cuts rather than furloughs.
“No, actually that’s like saying that residents in Davis will have fewer discretionary dollars to be spent on doing commerce with Davis businesses. As residents if we have to pay more in taxes then less is going to be spent elsewhere. Less trips to Davis eateries and less money spent at local businesses will be the result of passage of Prop. 30 and Measure E.”
If it’s a choice between the quality of my child’s education and having one fewer crepe a month and one fewer “splurge” shopping trip for things that I don’t really need anyway, it’s pretty much a no brainer. For me, at least.
rusty: [i]No, actually that’s like saying that residents in Davis will have fewer discretionary dollars to be spent on doing commerce with Davis businesses.[/i]
It is a matter of present sacrifice for future gain. A better educated populace is an economic driver. An educated populace is also capable of spending more efficiently.
And K. Smith is correct. It’s a matter of priorities. And there are too many other bigger factors in play that affect the Davis economy than the cost of school parcel taxes. And on the whole, school spending improves the value of our community.
K. Smith: [i]”If it’s a choice between the quality of my child’s education and having one fewer crepe a month and one fewer “splurge” shopping trip for things that I don’t really need anyway, it’s pretty much a no brainer. For me, at least.[/i]
First, who said anything about “quality”? There is no direct correlation between education spending and quality.
Second, you are only arguing a half-circle viewpoint. Many students rely on the local economy for jobs. Many parents of students rely on the local economy for their livelihood. State and local tax increases get added to federal tax increases to be just a big hit on discretionary income. You go out to dinner fewer times to send more money to the education system that is frankly blackmailing you with threats of furloughs, and you hurt students in other ways.
So you’re arguing that the Chamber is wrong and operating counter to their own interests?
Of course there is a correlation between education spending and quality. We see this locally, and we see this internationally.
Davis Teacher: actually there is not a correlation city to city and globally with education spending and quality.
[url]http://mat.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/[/url]
I don’t think the commenters here who blithely suggest teachers take a pay cut realize how demoralized your teachers are. I don’t remember similar calls when furlough days were suggested for UCD employees and state workers.
Somehow it’s different when it comes to K-12 where the demand is to “think of the kids.” I “think of the kids” as I head to school today (a Sunday) to supervise kids in an extracurricular activity. I’ll be “thinking of the kids” tonight when I grade student work and prepare for lessons tomorrow. I do believe that teaching is a calling, but it is also a job that I need to support my family. Six years without a cost of living adjustment…on top of increased costs for benefits and a greater workload due to increased class sizes…and now a call for a pay cut on top of all that?
I don’t understand why the school district doesn’t build its budget around paying its teachers a liveable wage and benefits. Why is this so unimportant to the district–and to so many of the commenters here? No district that I know of is asking its teachers to take a pay cut, and yet this is apparently what the Chamber is proposing. How will this support the recruitment and retention of excellent teachers?
JB: [i]First, who said anything about “quality”? There is no direct correlation between education spending and quality.[/i]
A fallacy. Once again, if that’s true, then put all 8,500 students at the H.S. football stadium under the supervision of one teacher. We would save lots of money and according to JB’s statement, it shouldn’t make a difference. But clearly it would be a disaster.
JB: [i] You go out to dinner fewer times to send more money to the education system that is frankly blackmailing you with threats of furloughs, and you hurt students in other ways.[/i]
Use another example. Don’t maintain the roads so that folks have more money to go out to dinner. Get angry because of threats of potholes in the roads. It really isn’t a threat. It’s a responsible reality to consider.
Opponents are really taking the position that if you just vote no, the problem will go away. It won’t.
Davis businesses will ultimately benefit because it adds value to our community. It is a key reason that new families move here, yes, even lower income families move here for the schools. Go talk to the families served by the Bridge Foundation that you seem to think highly of.
It’s not that clear to me what your priorities are, but for most Davisites, I think that adequately funded schools are a higher priority than eating out a couple of extra times. The money still enters the local economy either way, it’s just there is a longer term payoff for education.
JB: [i]actually there is not a correlation city to city and globally with education spending and quality.[/i]
I’m sorry, but another weak argument.
The weakness with your position, based on your supporting link, is what you use to measure success. You use reading and math scores. That is one small part of a larger picture. That’s like using body mass index alone to measure the health of an individual. Maybe there would be some weak correlations, the same way that the U.S would show better education outcomes than Somalia due to spending. But you would also find many perfectly healthy individuals who are outliers from the ideal body mass index.
But what isn’t really measured by those scores? For starters, perseverance, discipline, creativity, curiosity, the ability to work together all as exemplified through sports and performing arts (music & theater), clubs, visual arts, shop and career technical education programs. That is what has made the U.S. education a success in driving innovation and growth in our economy. Other countries who score better than we do, but don’t nurture those other more important factors. Go check out my link in the “education reform” thread of the bulletin board. China in particular is upset that their highly educated students are poor workers in their economy.
Cutting funding further in the Davis schools will squeeze the system into a one-size fits all framework that will focus exclusively on testable outcomes, like math and reading scores and will ignore all the non-testable factors.
[i]Less trips to Davis eateries and less money spent at local businesses will be the result of passage of Prop. 30 and Measure E.[/i]
We are aware of that. We also pay those taxes, so we’ll possibly have less income at both ends of the equation. Nevertheless, we support these tax measures. It’s called shared sacrifice.
Jeff: [i]”Many students rely on the local economy for jobs. Many parents of students rely on the local economy for their livelihood. State and local tax increases get added to federal tax increases to be just a big hit on discretionary income. You go out to dinner fewer times to send more money to the education system that is frankly blackmailing you with threats of furloughs, and you hurt students in other ways.”[/i]
You’re a local businessman, and property owner. Are you going to hire fewer people because of this? Are you going to spend less of your discretionary income in any measurable, meaningful way because of this?
JB: Link to article about what China doesn’t develop in its education system. ([url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703766704576008692493038646.html[/url]) It’s even published in the Wall Street Journal op-ed section to make it palatable to your political sensitivities.
If Measure E and Prop. 30 pass tens of thousands of Davis households will have several hundreds to close to a thousand less dollars to spend on our local economy. Being that our businesses have suffered a 9% loss of revenue since the advent of Target local families losing that much discretionary income might be the final blow that puts many of our local establishments out of business.
rusty: [i]If Measure E and Prop. 30 pass tens of thousands of Davis households will have several hundreds to close to a thousand less dollars to spend on our local economy.[/i]
But it re-enters the economy in other ways by employing teachers and supporting staff to do something productive in our community. For your argument to work, you would have to argue that teachers serve no beneficial purpose in our society. I doubt you would argue that, given that you have family members who are teachers.
medwoman wrote:
> Folks who are asking the teachers to “roll up
> their shirts sleeves” or “share the pain” are
> often willing to comment on the teachers shortened
> work year with comments expressing envy about
> having the summer off, but rarely comment on
> the work day which is typically far longer than
> 8 hours and frequently involves weekend hours as
> well.
I know that some teachers work more than 8 hours a day and some teachers do work on weekends, but so do virtually all well educated professionals who are paid a salary (vs. getting paid by the hour) that don’t get summers, winter break or spring break off…
> I am not sure exactly what it is that people
> are asking teachers to do beyond what they
> have already done that would not necessitate
> furlough days.
I am asking the teachers to either pass on the furlough days and keep teaching in Davis or quit to work somewhere else that will give them what they want, since there are plenty of well-educated hard working teachers out of work (or in the case of a couple Davis teachers I know driving to another county every day to teach) that would love to teach in Davis.
Rusty: Your math is very bad here.
If Proposition 30 passes…
Davis residents will pay the same $200 for the parcel tax they are paying today. They will pay nothing for the contingency.
And they will pay 0.25 percent additional on a statewide sales tax.
So where are you getting several hundreds to close to a thousand less dollars?
In order to pay even $100 more in sales tax at that rate, you would have to purchase $40,000 worth of sales taxable merchandise.
So to repeat, if Measure E and Prop 30 both pass, the typical Davis resident will pay less than $25 in additional taxes over what they paid this year.
Re: South of Davis: “I am asking the teachers to either pass on the furlough days and keep teaching in Davis or quit to work somewhere else that will give them what they want, since there are plenty of well-educated hard working teachers out of work (or in the case of a couple Davis teachers I know driving to another county every day to teach) that would love to teach in Davis.”
This attitude is why so many excellent teachers CHOOSE to work outside of Davis in districts like Elk Grove where they get better pay and benefits, and have to deal with less arrogant and condescending parents.
Re: South of Davis: “I am asking the teachers to either pass on the furlough days and keep teaching in Davis or quit to work somewhere else that will give them what they want, since there are plenty of well-educated hard working teachers out of work (or in the case of a couple Davis teachers I know driving to another county every day to teach) that would love to teach in Davis.”
Absolutely breathtaking in your arrogance SOD. Telling people that you either want to to put your hand in their pocket or think they should quit their jobs has got to be about the most insulting and presumptuous thing I’ve ever read here. Not to mention the disruption to learning this would cause. Of course all you who denigrate the teachers union and tenure should recognize the threat here is not about politics or competence but rather economics.
Thanks to the Chamber Pac for their support. Remember this all will be easier to deal with if Prop 30 and Measure E pass.
Mr.Toad wrote:
> Absolutely breathtaking in your arrogance SOD.
and
> Thanks to the Chamber Pac for their support.
As far as I know I am supporting the same thing at the ChamberPAC Yes on Measure E and No on Furloughs.
What do we do next year if the state cuts funding even more, just cut the school year by a full month?
Re: “What do we do next year if the state cuts funding even more, just cut the school year by a full month?”
Have the community-wide conversation–too long delayed–about what programs are essential and which are not. Decide whether or not we want to give teachers pay and benefits commensurate with region-wide standards and, if not, fully face up to what that will mean for our schools.
As a teacher, I thank the Chamber for their always great support of the schools, and their arguments for passage of Measure E are spot on! They give an important message with regard to why Measure E is so important for Davis, and I hope that people hear that message. A vote for the schools is a vote for the community, which is a vote for local businesses. They are all completely interconnected. We pride ourselves, here in Davis, on the notion that we are all in this together, and we have another chance to reinforce that great understanding that we as a community have an hold dear to us.
As another “Davis Teacher,” I would like to address some of these comments.
Davis Teacher Writes:
[quote]I don’t think the commenters here who blithely suggest teachers take a pay cut realize how demoralized your teachers are. I don’t remember similar calls when furlough days were suggested for UCD employees and state workers. [/quote]
[i]Everyone[/i] is demoralized. It has been a rough few years for everyone. It is time to stick together to help us all through this. We also shouldn’t get too worked up about a call for pay cuts for the below reasons….
[quote]
Six years without a cost of living adjustment…on top of increased costs for benefits and a greater workload due to increased class sizes…and now a call for a pay cut on top of all that? [/quote]
Our union right now is negotiating for furlough days for this year in case of Prop 30’s failure, and has been for months. Furlough days are technically a cut in pay, so this comment is slightly misleading when it implies that there hasn’t yet been a call for a “pay cut.” We already are in the process of determining how much the pay cut (read: potential furlough days) should be so we can save [i]all[/i] teachers’ jobs.
And technically, the Chamber is right that a non-furlough pay cut does more to support education than does furlough-day pay cuts, as we wouldn’t lose the class time.
[quote]
I don’t understand why the school district doesn’t build its budget around paying its teachers a liveable wage and benefits. Why is this so unimportant to the district–and to so many of the commenters here? [/quote]
This is a false argument and misleading, because teachers [i]do[/i] make a living wage. It is below average compared to other districts, but it is not so low that it can be considered an unlivable wage. And to address your other point here, lets think of it this way: if teachers were all of a sudden paid more from the same pot of money (which is what you are basically advocating), other teachers would have to be layed off to account for the increased paychecks for those higher up on the seniority list(read: highest in pay scale–which is between $70,000 and $80,000 for the most senior teachers). How fair is that to those who need a job or are in their first few years? Essentially, your argument is to fire teachers who get paid the least so you, as someone who gets paid more already due to the step increase, can get a pay raise (even though, each year, we see a pay raise for the first 20 years of employment).
**I say this in complete agreement that we should be paid more and that we are below average with regard to teacher pay around the state.
***Let me also say, that this is the absolute [i]wrong [/i]time to be advocating for more pay in any way. There isn’t the money around to make it happen no matter what arguments are put forth or how much it is deserved.
[quote]
No district that I know of is asking its teachers to take a pay cut, and yet this is apparently what the Chamber is proposing. How will this support the recruitment and retention of excellent teachers? [/quote]
Actually, most of the other districts surrounding Davis have come to agreement between the district and unions for a potential cut in pay, furlough days, etc, in the case that Prop 30 fails. At this point, the Davis Teachers Association is one of the only unions around here that has not come to an official agreement with their district for potential concessions.
Further, if you want retention of excellent teachers, then you should not be advocating for higher pay (and less teachers) out of the same pot of money that exists. You should be advocating for furlough days (pay cuts) to prevent layoffs and the loss of excellent younger teachers.
more in the next post
(part 2 of my post)
[quote]Have the community-wide conversation–too long delayed–about what programs are essential and which are not. Decide whether or not we want to give teachers pay and benefits commensurate with region-wide standards and, if not, fully face up to what that will mean for our schools. [/quote]
We have had this several times, and the community has voted to support many of the programs that you seem to be advocating be cut in this statement. You clearly want certain teachers to be fired so you can get a pay increase. How can you defend that position and act like you care about a student’s education and the teachers around you?
And I have to add that your insults are greatly greatly uncalled for, unprofessional, and done from a masked login. I really hope you aren’t a Davis teacher because you make us all look bad when you make those comments. Shame on you for generalizing such negativity about the Davis community.
This community has done so much to support teachers and the schools over the years, that in my opinion, we shouldn’t be complaining about things when we are all in a time of need, and instead should be 1) grateful beyond grateful to Davis and its community members, and 2) working to find a solution that prevents educational loss in the best way we can (cuts to protect teachers and actively promote YES on 30 and E). This isn’t about us as teachers. It is about the right thing for Davis, and its children and families (and by extension, the right thing for the State of California). I am truly and deeply grateful to the Davis Community as they (we) have (what I see as) the right priorities when it comes to education and the young, and I am proud to be a home owner and resident here since I graduated from UC Davis in 2001.
Finally, let me state that all of this is a major reason why Measure E and Prop 30 MUST pass. We need to keep things where they are and not let them get worse. Failure of 30 and/or E will lead to significant cuts of teachers, far higher class sizes, and will have a very negative impact on the community of Davis. In the case of both failing, we’ve now seen that it equals up to 125 of 450 teachers (according to the djusd)—the prop 30 portion alone is around 65 teaching positions–how can we let 65 teachers go mid year (legally you cannot, so the only way to deal with it is through furloughs or a non-furlough-day cut in pay)?
VOTE YES ON 30 and YES on E to protect the schools, students, and yes, the teachers too.
Greg, your reaction is over the top. Nowhere do I advocate a pay increase; I’m against a pay cut. Like you, I support furlough days as a temporary measure because it is my understanding they will be necessary to get through the year in the event Prop. 30 fails.
I believe you are a music teacher and so understand that you may have interpreted my call for a community-wide conversation about program priorities as a threat to your program. It is not. I believe our community supports music and believes it’s essential to our children.
The problem with exhorting teachers and others to “hush” and not discuss pay disparity problems in the midst of financial problems is that we are ALWAYS in the midst of a financial crisis. I believe a community that values education provides quality program for children AND gives teachers pay and benefits that keep up with inflation.
I realize you will be painted as the “good teacher” who “puts kids first.” But I truly do believe that paying teachers more will, over time, “put kids first” by attracting more people to the profession. And I believe your attitude, while well-intentioned, is contributing to the degradation of education overall.
And, yes, I plan on voting for both Measure E and Prop. 30. I’ve supported, and worked for, parcel tax passage since before I became a teacher and plan on doing so long after I retire.
And I appreciate your efforts to educate the community about the importance of these measures.
[i]”…a community-wide conversation about program priorities…”
[/i]
What exactly do you mean by this? How have we [i]not[/i] had this conversation in past elections, in which measures were passed specifically to retain funding for specific programs?
Davis Teacher:
[quote]Greg, your reaction is over the top. [/quote]
If you think it is “over the top,” please give some examples of what is over the top. I’m all for conversation/discussion about actual points, but to just state someone’s “reaction” is the issue, is a way to dismiss what someone says instead of addressing the actual points made.
[quote]Nowhere do I advocate a pay increase;[/quote]
Asking to have pay to be more like surrounding districts isn’t asking for a pay increase? Asking for better benefits isn’t asking for more benefits? I don’t understand your logic. Can you explain?
[quote]I believe you are a music teacher and so understand that you may have interpreted my call for a community-wide conversation about program priorities as a threat to your program.[/quote]
No, that is not the case. Over the last few years, we’ve had several community conversations (in the form of fundraising through DSF in 08, to measure W, A, C, and now E over the last 5 years), as to what we see as priorities in education here in Davis. So it confuses me as to why you are asking for another conversation when we are already in the middle of one, in working to pass a renewal of a parcel tax, along with a contingency addition in case of the failure of Prop. 30. I guess I don’t understand what you are asking for, since we are already in a community conversation. Can you re-explain?
But what it sounds like, is that you are advocating having programs cut just to allow other programs/teachers to have higher pay. I’m not making it about music or anyone in particular, so it would be better if you could give some examples of programs you think don’t belong in the schools and should be cut to help increase your pay (as you infer should happen).
[quote]The problem with exhorting teachers and others to “hush” and not discuss pay disparity problems in the midst of financial problems is that we are ALWAYS in the midst of a financial crisis. [/quote]
When is this happening/who is doing it? No one denies that teachers don’t get paid enough, and no one is trying to “hush” anyone. And yes, over the last 5+ years, we’ve been in a financial crisis. If there was money around to increase pay, we wouldn’t be here asking the community to keep us employed to being with.
[quote]I believe a community that values education provides quality program for children AND gives teachers pay and benefits that keep up with inflation. [/quote]
It is not the local community’s choice as to how much we get paid. That is a deal that can only be struck between the union and district. Further, this argument goes directly to the problems caused by Prop. 13 and the way it changed taxation to lower the income to the schools (and many other things). If we were still in a progressive property taxation system, we’d see far more money in the schools, and could easily lobby the district for a higher pay/benefit system.
[quote]I realize you will be painted as the “good teacher” who “puts kids first.” [/quote]
This isn’t about me. Why do you try to make it about me? And are you trying to therefore argue that you aren’t the “good teacher” who doesn’t “put kids first?” I don’t understand your point.
[quote]
But I truly do believe that paying teachers more will, over time, “put kids first” by attracting more people to the profession. [/quote]
That is your opinion, and you may be very well right about it. This is a great argument against Prop 13, or for a progressive property taxation system to help support the schools.
[quote] And I believe your attitude, while well-intentioned, is contributing to the degradation of education overall. [/quote]
Honestly, I have little respect for people who attack others on the internet from a veiled seat. To make such a personal attack based on nothing only reflects back on you. If you think I’m contributing to the degradation of education, I’d like to hear some example of exactly what you mean, so we can discuss it, as I’m absolutely open to any discussion. But again, here you are making this about me, and not about the issue, and that says more than enough.
I’m really sorry you feel the way you do, but that is no reason to personally attack someone.
Respectfully,
Greg Brucker
SouthofdDavis
[quote]I know that some teachers work more than 8 hours a day and some teachers do work on weekends, but so do virtually all well educated professionals who are paid a salary (vs. getting paid by the hour) that don’t get summers, winter break or spring break off… [/quote]
I agree that many professionals work well beyond a forty hour work week. Do you know of any others that do it for the same pay as teachers ?
Greg Brucker made a great post that I’m sure would make a lot of people that are on the fence about supporting measure C vote yes if they read it (and even some people cut a check to Greg since he seems to care about kids).
Then Davis Teacher wrote:
> Greg, your reaction is over the top.
Most people in Davis still support the schools, and as I’ve said before good schools in Davis are good for everyone in town, but I worry that with people like “Davis Teacher” and “Mr. Toad” who have an attitude that says F’U’ people of Davis we don’t care if most of you have taken pay cuts and seen your home values drop in the last few years either pay us or we say F’U’ to your kids and teach them less may not be good for the next parcel tax since the margin of victory has been getting less and less over the last few years…
I just read the post below from a Northern California Blogger that I respect:
“Recall that the Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances for 2007-2010 found that the median net worth of households fell a staggering 39%, from $126,400 to $77,300, and average household income fell 11% from $88,300 to $78,500.”
I hope the teachers keep this in mind when they keep asking everyone to pay more so they can teach less…
Don: [i]You’re a local businessman, and property owner. Are you going to hire fewer people because of this? Are you going to spend less of your discretionary income in any measurable, meaningful way because of this?[/i]
I’m in a unique situation as Executive Director of a non-profit. And my company mission is economic development… basically fighting against the tide of business-killing ideas like higher taxation. So, no, I am not going to hire fewer people because of Measure E.
But the statewide impact to marginal business and business owners could mean fewer small business loans and that could result in me needing to hire fewer employees or even to lay off some employees.
I am a wage earner already taxed to the max, and measure E and prop-30 will absolutely decrease my discretionary spending.
There is another way to deal with our education funding problems: do more with less. Private-sector business has to complete on price-value every day. They have to constantly do this to stay in business. Our education system is stuck in manual labor mode. The innovation that can transform it to an affordable modern marvel (the same that has transformed every other industry) is blocked by the demands of the union-Democrat-managed adult jobs program.
The funding problems should be a wakeup call that the old model no longer works; instead we keep taking more from the private economy to feed the beast. It is an unsutainable beast.
Don: [i]You’re a local businessman, and property owner. Are you going to hire fewer people because of this? Are you going to spend less of your discretionary income in any measurable, meaningful way because of this?[/i]
I’m in a unique situation as Executive Director of a non-profit. And my company mission is economic development… basically fighting against the tide of business-killing ideas like higher taxation. So, no, I am not going to hire fewer people because of Measure E.
But the statewide impact to marginal business and business owners could mean fewer small business loans and that could result in me needing to hire fewer employees or even to lay off some employees.
I am a wage earner already taxed to the max, and measure E and prop-30 will absolutely decrease my discretionary spending.
There is another way to deal with our education funding problems: do more with less. Private-sector business has to complete on price-value every day. They have to constantly do this to stay in business. Our education system is stuck in manual labor mode. The innovation that can transform it to an affordable modern marvel (the same that has transformed every other industry) is blocked by the demands of the union-Democrat-managed adult jobs program.
The funding problems should be a wakeup call that the old model no longer works; instead we keep taking more from the private economy to feed the beast. It is an unsutainable beast.