President Justifies Five Furlough Days Amid Budget Crisis if Prop 30 Fails – In an op-ed in the Enterprise today, Frank Thomsen attempted to explain and defend the position of the Davis Teachers Association, who to this point have resisted efforts by the school district to win concessions in the event that Proposition 30 does not pass.
Mr. Thomsen writes, “The outcomes of Proposition 30 and Measure E will determine whether we even maintain the current precarious fiscal situation we now have or whether we will face a future of immediate and ongoing school cuts that is almost too bleak to contemplate.”
“While we hope for the best, the school district has a responsibility to plan for the worst. Davis teachers understand that, and so we have been engaged in a good-faith effort to prepare for that worst-case scenario,” he writes.
The DTA has offered, according to him, in the event that Proposition 30 fails, “five furlough days that will save the district more than $900,000.”
Mr. Thomsen writes, “While it is difficult to give up five instructional days with our students, we believe that ending the school year a week early – together with concessions from other employee groups and a freeze on discretionary spending at the district level – will provide the bridge money needed to make it through June, even if the election results don’t go our way.”
The district, which faces the loss of $3.7 million in January if Proposition 30 fails, is asking for twice that.
“We oppose the district’s proposal because we know that our teachers and students just cannot afford it,” he argues.
He adds: “As teachers, we are already struggling to cover curriculum with larger class sizes and increased student needs. Ending school two weeks early would put our children two weeks behind.
“Teachers would have to consider what to leave out of the curriculum, to decide what the children would not learn during that time – what math facts would not be practiced, what science concept would not be introduced, what spelling lesson would fall by the wayside.”
“We are concerned about our students – and we’re also concerned about our own families,” he argues. “Ten furlough days means a 10 percent pay cut for Davis teachers during the January through June period. Very few of us can absorb that without taking on an extra job (and jobs are now scarce), dipping into our own children’s college savings or going into debt.”
Frank Thomsen writes: “This pay cut would hurt Davis teachers who have already seen their paychecks diminished through inflation, health insurance increases and past furlough days. We have had no cost-of-living adjustment since 2006 (and only 1 percent then), even though between 2006 and 2011, cumulative inflation in California has eroded our earnings by more than 14 percent.
“Additionally, employees are absorbing all rate increases for health benefits, an ongoing de facto pay cut. Full coverage including a Kaiser health plan, for example, costs a teacher’s family more than $940 per month out of pocket.”
He notes: “These costs do not even take into account the one-year 2.7 percent pay reduction in 2010-11, which we agreed to because we were told that there was a one-time emergency. We did not expect the district would turn to us every time it had trouble balancing its budget.”
Frank Thomsen concludes:
“As a teacher, voter, taxpayer, DJUSD parent and community member, I urge a different path. Now that we know reduced state funding is the ‘new normal,’ we have a responsibility to examine every expenditure, prioritizing student learning while leaving no solution off the table. We also need to provide employees – teachers, administrators, and other staff – with salaries and benefits competitive with surrounding districts both because it is the right thing to do and because we want to recruit and retain the best.
“Let’s limit lost instructional days to five, cut unnecessary expenses immediately – and spend the next month spreading the word that Proposition 30 and Measure E are the first steps toward a more stable future for schools and students.”
—David M. Greenwald reporting
Losing ten days of instruction would be devastating to the children in school. I’m sure this is the reason that the teachers oppose this option. I am confident that, since children are their top priority, they will choose a small pay cut rather than an option that hurts kids.
They need to take a pay cut, not get more vacation.
Would they teach all the way up to the last day or would they just move the end of the year parties to the new end of the school year? I think that there is already too many holidays, minimum days and testing days in the school year. It is already short enough. Maybe make the school year shorter, but limit the interruptions during the quarter, so the school days are real.
My wife works at a private school in Davis. Everytime they have an opening they get hundreds of qualifed teachers applying for the job. All the applicants have BA’s, many have teaching certs and some have Masters. These jobs pay less than public schools and have few benefits yet they fill the positions easily. With today’s job market these teachers could be easily replaced if they don’t want to compromise.
[quote]They need to take a pay cut, not get more vacation. [/quote]That comment is, at best, unfair, and borders on “stupid”. It would be unpaid vacation, and reduces the household income. That being said, if state and local government employees are facing 5 – 20+% reductions in total comp/salaries [their household incomes are definitely reduced], not sure that teachers shouldn’t have to suck up some pain as well. In other government sectors, the reductions are either proposed or “in play”, but the public’s expectation is that there should be no reduction in services, and that is what the teachers are proposing to “agree to”.
Another proposal… the teachers take a two step reduction in their step progression (see http://www.djusd.net/employment/salsched/certsal1112)
Then, as finances hopefully improve, they move back up the scale, so retirement and other benefits are not lost. Might mean a two year delay on meeting their retirement date goals, but beats the hell out of laying off new teachers or reducing instructional time.
This would put the teachers in the same boat as those elsewhere in the public sector, where minimum retirement ages are increased, but they’d be spared the more draconian measures proposed or in play for other public employees.
Rusty… my spouse worked as a teacher in the parochial school system, where many people are willing to pay a lot of extra money for, due to quality AND for values instruction. You are correct… they receive a lot less in salary/compensation, but deliver the same or superior product [my spouse has taught in BOTH public and private schools, and is well respected in each].
hpierce:
“That comment is, at best, unfair, and borders on “stupid”. It would be unpaid vacation, and reduces the household income.”
Hpierce, I didn’t say that they got a paid vacation. Many people in the private sector are forced to take pay cuts and still work all the same hours. I know that happened to me in my profession, I worked a job where they needed the coverage so giving time off without pay wasn’t a option when the company was hurting. So being that shortening the school year isn’t a good option I think reducing actual pay but working the same hours is a better solution.
David wrote:
> President Justifies Five Furlough Days
> Amid Budget Crisis if Prop 30 Fails
I don’t get why the school district needs to offer the furlough days. Just give the teachers the option to take a pay cut or go get a job in another district if they want more money or more time off.
I respect the work of teachers and it sucks to have to take a pay cut, but someone needs to let them know that when there is a “budget crisis” you need to give a little or step aside and let one of the many out of work teachers take your job for what the district can pay.
[i]”I don’t get why the school district needs to offer the furlough days.”[/i]
I think the answer is quite clear: The members of our school board are ethically corrupt. They take money from the DTA and they run with the endorsement of the DTA and then they “negotiate” with the DTA over whatever the DTA wants. There is no doubt that if the school board agreed to flexible contracts with the DTA–where, when state revenues decline, the compensation owed to all district employees would decline commensurately–the idea of reducing the amount of time students are in class or laying off new hires would never be raised.
It’s interesting to me that, no matter how often public school teachers cry poverty*, they seem to have an endless amount of money to invest in buying influence in our politics. The CTA has spent nearly $20 million this year, just to defeat Proposition 32 ([url]http://www.davisenterprise.com/forum/opinion-columns/prop-32-a-chance-to-clean-up-the-rot/[/url]). I don’t know how much money the DTA has spent on politics. Probably more than enough to hire a couple of teachers who were laid off, though.
*The average teacher in California (in total compensation) would make roughly $119,000 a year, if he worked the same number of hours per year as the median, full-time private sector professional worker works in the United States**. That said, we still woefully underpay our really good teachers. It’s a shame the best teachers are paid the same as the worst.
**Source ([url]https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/249299-bls-teachers-work-patterns.html[/url]). Full-time public school teachers work, on average 126 fewer minutes per week than private sector professionals, according to the BLS. They also work, on average, 13 fewer weeks per year. Average salary for a full-time teacher in California’s public schools is $68,093, according to the NEA ([url]http://www.nea.org/home/49860.htm[/url]). Additionally, I am guessing*** that the average full-time teacher gets medical and pension benefits worth an additional $15,000 per year (which is much less than the average City of Davis employee). That brings total comp to roughly $83,000. If you multiply that by 49/36, which adds back the extra time off, total comp rises to roughly $113,000. And then you pay teachers to work an extra 126 minutes per week, you get a total comp per year of $119,000.
***I could not find any hard data on this. My guess is based on what I know about the cost of medical and pension benefits. Unfortunately, the cost of teacher pensions is going to rise dramatically in the next 5 to 10 years, because the CalSTRS is about to go broke ([url]http://capoliticalnews.com/2012/01/03/calstrs-admits-to-nightmare-that-media-long-ignored/[/url]).
How much would DJUSD save if it cut two of the three big admin positions downtown?
I would cut downtown overhead before the teachers. They dont earn enough as it is.
Rifkin: [i]They take money from the DTA and they run with the endorsement of the DTA and then they “negotiate” with the DTA over whatever the DTA wants.[/i]
Can you site specific examples where anyone on the current board has been endorsed by DTA? I’m unaware of any, and I follow this stuff pretty closely. I don’t think DTA endorsed anyone in the past three school board elections.
DTA endorsed Alan Fernandes for the current race, but I might handicap his odds at 3rd place. He shows impressive ability to run a campaign, but I don’t think he quite has the connections in the school communities that Peterson and Lovenburg have. Your Enterprise colleague, Jeff Hudson, has an article on campaign donations in the school board race, and only Fernandes fits the profile of union association, but he shows no contributions from DTA.
I know this narrative is a favorite theme of yours. I think it exists in places, but I just don’t see it with the Davis school board. And the reason is that I think too many parents are interested and involved in school politics and dilute what sway DTA might have over an election.
Rifkin: When I review CTA efforts where I think they would count the most in these times — influencing the legislature to provide level funding to K-12 education — they have come up short every year. K-12 education has taken cuts every year for the past few years. Makes me wonder how much influence they really have in the bigger scheme of things.
I still don’t understand.
If DJUSD says they need 10 furlough days to balance the budget and DTA says they’ll agree to 5. What does that mean? How does DTA think DJUSD will or can respond? Where does DTA beleive that DJUSD will find the money? Will DJUSD lay-off all or some of the 19 temporary teachers mid-year and move their students into other classrooms? Or what?
The 19 temporary teachers are mentioned in the Enterprise here:
http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/schools-news/davis-district-welcomes-new-teachers/
Hmmm…:[i]The 19 temporary teachers are mentioned in the Enterprise here:[/i]
That Enterprise article is from Aug. 2011. At least one of those teachers is no longer employed in the district, as far as I know, maybe more.
Furloughs hurt students. I do not think cuts should be in the form of furlough’s. Has the Board negotiated so that that is the only way to get ‘cuts’ concessions from teachers?
If it is a furlough does the district still get the $ for that day from the state?
Rich wrote:
> The average teacher in California (in total compensation)
> would make roughly $119,000 a year, if he worked the same
> number of hours per year as the median, full-time private
> sector professional worker works in the United States
Years ago when a friend was working for a “big 8” CPA firm he did the math and discovered that his wife a elementary school teacher on the SF Peninsula was making quite a bit “per hour” more than he was and would be making an even higher six figure salary than he was if she worked the same number of hours per year.
> Full-time public school teachers work, on average 126
> fewer minutes per week than private sector professionals,
> according to the BLS. They also work, on average, 13
> fewer weeks per year.
Many teachers make extra money tutoring, coaching, driving a school bus or teaching summer school and if they want even more money they can pick up more part time work (or find a full time summer gig). I would love to take 4 months a year off like a lot of teachers do, but I need the money so I keep working (and don’t constantly complain about my pay like so many teachers)…
wdf-thanks for catching that the link was for 2011. I found the article by searching on a friend’s name, who I know is a “temporary” teacher again this year. Here is a link to the Enterprise’s 2012 new teacher article.
http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/davis-district-welcomes-small-group-of-newly-hired-teachers/
There are 25 new teachers this year.
So much animosity toward teachers its simply breathtaking.
Mr. Toad: this election is notable for the animosity toward GATE, transfer students both intra- and inter-, and teachers.
Mr. Toad, breathtaking is being kind. I am sickened by the vilification of teachers. I don’t understand how the Davis community unequivocally states that they value education, but cannot acknowledge the merit of teachers who are at the forefront of imparting knowledge to students. It defies logic.
[i]”Can you site specific examples where anyone on the current board has been endorsed by DTA?”[/i]
I recall them endorsing Lovenburg, but then when the teachers revolted, the union withdrew her endorsement. They also have endorsed Daleiden. I don’t know about the others. I recall the DTA was angry with Harris for a while, because they did not think he was a lackey.
The big point is that if someone is going to serve on the Board of Education, he must be completely independent of the unions, be they for the teachers or other District employees. It is a conflict of interest.
What seems to be the case in Davis is that no one on the Board wants to face the wrath of the DTA, lest the DTA work to get them voted off.
Legally, of course, the DTA has every right to participate in politics and elections. Ethically, it creates real problems.
[i]I respect the work of teachers and it sucks to have to take a pay cut, but someone needs to let them know that when there is a “budget crisis” you need to give a little or step aside and let one of the many out of work teachers take your job for what the district can pay. [/i]
[b]So much animosity toward teachers its simply breathtaking.[/b]
Animosity apparently means caring as much about the interests of students as caring about the teachers union.
Teachers are not victims. They are also not heroes. They are employees.
Employees with a very important job.
“They are also not heroes. They are employees.”
You obviously have never gotten a card from an ex-student like the one I got a few weeks ago containing a gift card for coffee and a note about how I showed her she was smart and could do it. How she was using what I had taught her in her current training and how grateful she was for my efforts on her behalf.
You obviously never had a kid tell you that he had a cancerous mole removed and that he had it checked out after the lesson you taught on types of skin cancers.
You obviously have never had a kid tell you that you were the only one that believed in her on graduation day.
You obviously have never written a scholarship letter of recommendation and watched a student jump for joy upon getting the scholarship.
You obviously have never written a letter to a judge and kept a kid out of jail and watched that kid graduate and find a job.
You obviously have never received a thank you card from a child after explaining that her drug addicted mother was the one who had the problem and that she needed to take care of her wonderful self .
You obviously have never had a student bursting with pride tell you they got into MIT, Harvard, Brown, Stanford, Berkeley or Davis.
Because if you had any of those experiences you would not write that teachers are not heroes. Teachers are heroes every time they walk into class and help children reach their dreams or tackle the challenges they face. Finally teachers are heroes every time they open their pay check envelope and watch that moth fly out lamenting that they can’t afford something they dream about owning..
[quote]So much animosity toward teachers its simply breathtaking.[/quote]
There is no animosity towards teachers. There is some criticism against the union leaders who seem to be taking stances that harm Davis children. I am confident that the vast majority of teachers have the children’s priority foremost. I am confident that these teachers are indeed heroes, who would oppose any reduction in the school year. Heroes who would greatly prefer a small cut in salary to the terrible alternatives of a shorter school year or more crowded classrooms.
Heroes throughout the ages have sacrificed their lives, their time and their money to fight for just causes. Those who say that Davis teachers will not step up and sacrifice along with everyone else have a dim view indeed of our local educators.
From American Prospect October 12, 2010 by Richard Kahlenberg:
Is it possible, though, to praise teachers and oppose teachers’ unions? Shanker questioned the logic when Sen. Bob Dole tried to drive the same wedge between teachers and their unions in a speech at the 1996 Republican National Convention. “Who started teacher unions? Who pays the dues that keep them going? Who elects the officers and determines union policies?” he asked. Moreover, polls find that teachers are generally supportive of their unions. For example, a 2003 Public Agenda poll, financed in part by the conservative Thomas B. Fordham Foundation, found that 81 percent of teachers strongly or somewhat agreed that “without the union, teachers would be vulnerable to school politics or administrators who abuse their power.” Likewise, 81 percent strongly or somewhat agreed that “without collective bargaining, the working conditions and salaries of teachers would be much worse.”
Even so, might it still be true that teachers’ unions are “a menace and an impediment to reform”? They don’t seem to be stopping the Finns. As Guggenheim notes, Finland ranks the highest in the world in K-12 math and reading achievement, yet he fails to mention that almost all teachers in the country are unionized. Plus, some of the reforms to which teachers’ unions are an impediment, such as nonunionized charter schools, don’t seem to be working very well. Superman mentions in passing that only one in five charter schools produces “amazing” results, but in fact their track record is even worse than that: According to a large Stanford University study funded by pro-charter school foundations, only 17 percent outperform regular public schools to any degree; 37 percent underperform; and 46 percent have no impact. Even conservative supporters of charter schools like Michael Petrilli of the Fordham Institute and Rick Hess of the American Enterprise Institute have chided Guggenheim for saying that certain charter schools have “cracked the code” and know how to close the achievement gap. This sounds more like “ed reformers on crack,” Petrilli wrote .
Toad:
“Finally teachers are heroes every time they open their pay check envelope and watch that moth fly out lamenting that they can’t afford something they dream about owning..”
Toad, give it a rest. Teachers have great hours and are paid a fair wage. Teachers are heroes and so are are many of us in our daily lives and professions. Nobody here has animosity towards teachers, some of us just feel they need to step up and help with the budget situation more than they’re doing. So quit being over dramatic with the moth flying out of your pay check envelope, nobody here is buying it.
J.R….great post, it’s time for the heroes to step up.
Okay you got me Rusty i embellished the moth.
“Teachers have great hours and are paid a fair wage.”
Something i learned in my career is that if you see someone with a ton of papers on the weekend its either a teacher or a lawyer.
Mr. Toad: Those are all fantastic and inspiring experiences and accomplishments you write about. Teaching is a special job with blessings equal to the responsibilities. But, I stand by my opinion that teachers are not heroes. Certainly some may be… maybe you. But this is no different than many other professions where individuals can step forward taking risks to help and save others.
Why would a teacher be any more deserving of a “hero” definition that any other employee?
I have professional employees that work their butts off helping small business get loans that allow them to retain workers or hire new workers. Why are they not also considered heros? Note that my employees don’t have union protected job security or a pension, and they have to work 12 months of the year.
I think this “hero” label, and the inference that those of us that don’t support tax increases are displaying animosity toward teachers, is part of the teacher union-funded propaganda campaign. We don’t have to go that far to respect the profession of teaching.
Rifkin: [i]I recall them endorsing Lovenburg, but then when the teachers revolted, the union withdrew her endorsement. They also have endorsed Daleiden. I don’t know about the others.[/i]
[quote][b]Politics go sour: No DTA support[/b]
Davis Enterprise, The (CA) – Sunday, October 7, 2007
Author: Jeff Hudson ; Enterprise staff writer
After a lengthy process that included two votes of the membership, the Davis Teachers Association has decided not to make an endorsement in the current school board race.[/quote]
Article goes on to discuss the insider view that there were preferences, but not enough members could agree, so no endorsement.
DTA doesn’t show up as endorsing Gina Daleiden for her 2010 campaign website ([url]http://ginaforschoolboard.org/[/url]) (still active). Maybe they endorsed her in 2005? A search of Enterprise articles from that year don’t indicate anything.
[i]What seems to be the case in Davis is that no one on the Board wants to face the wrath of the DTA, lest the DTA work to get them voted off. [/i]
I don’t find this school board in a subservient posture to DTA. They endured some teacher protests in response to a request for cuts last spring and came back again this fall to discuss mid-year cuts and even went so far as to declare an impasse.
“I don’t get why the school district needs to offer the furlough days. “
The reason is that they save full operating expenses not just teacher salaries.
“If Davis got rid of the 450 kids they know about who do not live in Davis and tracked down the other kids that they don’t know about who use a Davis address to go to Davis public schools they could close one school and sell the site and come out ahead so we would not need a parcel tax.”
They could do that. It would probably be a wash. And selling the site would not get them instructional money.
“How much would DJUSD save if it cut two of the three big admin positions downtown?”
Not much particularly since they are legally required to carry some of those positions and they already essentially cut the equivalent of two back in 2008.
“The Multi-purpose room and the remodeling of Emerson Jr High will be the next [i]do it for the children, emergency, temporary parcel tax[/i]. “
Can’t use a parcel tax for facilities. It would have to be a bond.
” I am sickened by the vilification of teachers. I don’t understand how the Davis community unequivocally states that they value education, but cannot acknowledge the merit of teachers who are at the forefront of imparting knowledge to students.”
I think you need to be careful here.
There is a group of people who believe that DTA needs to take concessions. I don’t think they are anti-teacher and some are teachers.
There is another group on this forum that tend to me more conservative. These are generally speaking not the people supporting the district through parcel tax.
So it would be wise not to confuse what is actually going on here.
“I don’t find this school board in a subservient posture to DTA. “
If anything just the opposite.
David
I believe that you are right that there is a distinction to be made about different groups supporting concessions for different reasons. However, I do believe that in many comments, there is a nasty, if in most cases somewhat veiled , animosity towards public school teachers as opposed to those in the private sector. This for me is manifest in some of the language and descriptors chosen. For instance, saying that teachers work less hours than people in other professions paired with the concept that therefore they are somehow “overpaid” could be construed as implying that they are “greedy” or “lazy” or both. I am wondering if any of the folks using this line of reasoning have factored into their calculations the hours after “work” that teachers spend grading homework, or attending school functions, or decorating their classrooms, often with supplies purchased with their own money, or meeting with students for unpaid after hours tutoring, of meeting or calling parents after school hours.
Another line of reasoning brought up was with regard to being ethically corrupt. Granted, the poster did not say that the teachers are corrupt, however, I think that since it is a public teacher union that is essentially being accused of corruption in the (seemingly unsubstantiated) claim of buying local school board elections and being mad at a supervisor for not being a “lackey” there is a fair amount of hostility being cast fairly broadly. Is one to suppose the author was completely exonerating teachers, while excoriating their union leadership and the supervisors ?
Finally, I think there is a large element of resentment. Many comments actually boil down to “it’s not faiir. I chose to work in the private sector. So why should teachers get perks that I don’t get ?”. Maybe the answer is actually quite conservative in nature. It is in the nature of free choice. Those of us who chose carreers outside of public education presumably did so of our own free will having had the opportunity to compare and contrast various advantages and disadvantages including financial as well as other job satisfiers. Presumably, the teachers did the same. However, we now see some posters arguing that if teachers do not accept pay cuts, they are somehow more greedy than those who refuse to pay more taxes in order to provide more stable funding for our public schools. I do not see this as any more the fault of the teacher than of the reluctant taxpayer.
I don’t disagree – but you still have to look at who is saying it and ask yourself if they are reflective of the community that is supporting Measure E and has supported most of the parcel taxes. I don’t see the overlap quite frankly.
I wrote:
> I don’t get why the school district
> needs to offer the furlough days.
Then David wrote:
> The reason is that they save full operating
> expenses not just teacher salaries
Other than staff costs there is little difference in the average operating cost per day of an empty school or a school with students. I’ve managed commercial buildings in the past and can’t think of any big savings (if David really knows what they are I would be interested to read them)…
medwoman wrote:
> I do believe that in many comments, there is a nasty, if in
> most cases somewhat veiled , animosity towards public school
> teachers as opposed to those in the private sector.
It is dangerous to try and assume what someone really thinks and assume that what they are writing are “code words” or “veiled animosity”. My wife is a teacher and my best friend (for more than 40 years) is a firefighter.
> This for me is manifest in some of the language and descriptors chosen.
> For instance, saying that teachers work less hours than people in other
> professions paired with the concept that therefore they are somehow
> “overpaid” could be construed as implying that they are “greedy” or “lazy”
> or both.
Teachers and Firefighters do work less hours than most other people the “language and descriptors are chosen because if someone works less hours than average that is the language you need to use.
I just went to http://www.contracostatimes.com/salaries/ and see that my firefighter friend (with a fire science cirt. From a junior college) has a “TCOE” of $258,000 and is paid $167,000 (with $91K for medical and pension). Last year he made that much working 11 days a month and made quite a bit more at his “other job”. My wife’s best friend’s husband is a pediatrician and gets up at 4:30 am five days a week to go in and do paperwork in the morning so he can spend Saturdays at home with his family and not go in to work (like the other guys in his practice) every Saturday. You may think it is fair that a firefighter with two years of junior college makes more , and works led hours than a friend with a MD, but I don’t. Firefighters and teachers have very generous pensions that they forget to mention when they talk about how little they make. My firefighter friend can retire at 50 years old with a pension of $150K a year + full medical for the whole family (worth about $24K a year)
Times are tough for a lot of people these days and I think that we need to push back and remind most in the public sector that they don’t know how well they have it. A veterinarian friend recently told me that he is looking for a way to make some extra money since his income is down with more people choosing to put down their pets because they can’t afford to pay him
WDF: [i]”Maybe (the DTA) endorsed (Daleiden) in 2005? A search of Enterprise articles from that year don’t indicate anything.”[/i]
Gina told me they endorsed her and they endorsed two other candidates* that year. I recall Gina telling me that the DTA gave her $1,500. I do not remember if they gave that amount to the other two they endorsed. From the October 26, 2005 Enterprise: [quote]Daleiden has picked up endorsements from the Davis Teachers Association, the California School Employees Association (Davis chapter), and the Association of Concerned Teachers. [/quote] *That race included Daleiden, Tim Taylor, Sheila Allen and B.J. Kline.
[i]”For instance, saying that teachers work less hours than people in other professions paired with the concept that therefore they are somehow “overpaid” could be construed as implying that they are “greedy” or “lazy” or both.”[/i]
This comment by Meds may be the nastiest, meanest comment of hers I have ever read. It is unfair and out of bounds to attack someone’s motives for simply pointing out an objective fact about hours worked per year. I would hope that Meds would apologize for her mean-spirited authoritarian grape-stomping angry mean caustic remarks. (And in case you do not get irony, I am puroposefully overstating everything in order to be on par with that sort of silly logic by Meds.)
[i]Times are tough for a lot of people these days and I think that we need to push back and remind most in the public sector that they don’t know how well they have it.[/i]
SouthofDavis, Very well said. Thank you.
It is all about expectations and perspective. Both are out of sync.