There was an interesting comment on the Vanguard yesterday, in discussion of the Davis Chamber of Commerce’s op-ed in the Davis Enterprise. A commenter wrote: “If Measure E and Prop. 30 pass tens of thousands of Davis households will have several hundreds to close to a thousand less dollars to spend on our local economy.”
In fact, those numbers are simply not true. If both Measure E and Proposition 30 pass, Davis taxpayers will not pay much more than they do today.
Here’s why. The base rate of Measure E – the $204 per parcel rate – is simply an extension of Measure A’s already approved rate which has been on the books for two years. If Measure E passes, voters will pay the same rate they have been paying for the last two years.
The second part of Measure E is a contingency, which would “levy up to an additional $242.00 to cover State funding shortfalls ONLY if the November 2012 Temporary Taxes to Fund Education initiative does not pass.”
That means that, if Proposition 30 passes, Davis voters still pay the exact same rate they did previously because the contingency would not kick in.
So what do people pay under Proposition 30? The provision of Proposition 30 that impacts the typical voter the most will be a quarter cent sales tax. Sales tax goes up from 7.25% to 7.5%. That represents a tiny 3.45 percentage increase over the current law.
So if the commenter maintains that we would have several hundreds to close to a thousand less dollars – where is that figure coming from?
It is not from the sales tax. At .25%, in order to pay even $100 more in sales tax at that rate, you would have to purchase $40,000 worth of sales taxable merchandise. Even at $10,000 in taxable goods you are talking only $25 a year.
For most voters and the typical Davis resident, if Measure E and Proposition 30 both pass, the typical resident will pay less than $25 in additional taxes over what they paid this year.
Now, there are two caveats. If you make over $250,000 a year, your income tax rate will be going up. So for those voters, the passage of Proposition 30 will have an impact on your income by a good deal more.
Second, if Measure E passes but Proposition 30 fails, Davis voters would have to pay an additional $242. So the only way for Davis voters – at least those making less than $250,000 per year – to have to pay hundreds more would be for Measure E to pass and Proposition 30 to fail.
We were critical yesterday of the Chamber for opposing furloughs in a position that was not well explained or defined, but ultimately came to mean they wanted pay decreases for teachers without work decreases.
The Davis Chamber seems to understand that while there might be a short-term hit to the taxes, in the long run, business will do better if we invest in quality education. They should be commended for their continued commitment to quality education.
Unfortunately, they chose to focus on furloughs, but the bigger issue in the long run is not the impact of furloughs on people spending money in local business, but the impact of students not receiving a quality education, of not receiving the proper training for our future workforce.
There is growing concern that as we emerge as a high tech, post-industrial economic-based society, we will not have enough well-trained workers to fill the needed positions.
We often talk about the impact of the cost of education but we fail to weigh that impact against the cost of insufficient education. We spend somewhere between $8000 and $9000 per year on education. But we fail to talk about the fact that we spend five or six times more than that, per year, on incarceration. We fail to talk about how much we spend each year on assistance programs and other welfare, when we should have put in the money upfront and supported a quality education.
One of the fiercest debates we are having right now is whether teachers should take furlough days, a pay cut, or whether this district is paying teachers enough to begin with.
It is a debate that we need to have, but now is not the time. Right now we are fighting a war to prevent us from falling further back.
Unfortunately, I am one of all too many parents in this community whose kids cannot afford to have two weeks less of school because their educational standing is precarious to begin with.
The reality is that, without Proposition 30 passing, that is what we are looking at. There is no secret reserve of money out there. Even if Measure E passes, that funding would not kick in until July.
So yes – we completely agree with the chamber that furloughs are bad. We just do not see another way if the voters fail to approve Prop 30.
Bottom line is that if Measure E and Proposition 30 both pass, you will likely hardly notice the impact of one cent for every four dollars you purchase. However, it will make a huge difference for the educational system in Davis and, in fact, your own bottom line.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
David wrote:
> Unfortunately, I am one of all too many parents in this
> community whose kids cannot afford to have two weeks less
> of schools because their educational standing is precarious
> to begin with.
and
> So yes – we completely agree with the chamber that furloughs
> are bad. We just do not see another way if the voters fail
> to approve Prop 30.
You basically said that “I’m supporting something that I just said is bad for my kids”.
I’m sure your kids will get some free tutoring from the teachers union if you ask, but don’t you care about the other kids?
> We often talk about the impact of the cost of education
> but we fail to weigh that impact against the cost of
> insufficient education. We spend somewhere between $8000
> and $9000 per year on education. But we fail to talk
> about the fact that we spend five or six times more
> than that, per year on incarceration.
By “we” I assume you are talking about your friends on the left that have had a blind support for ALL unions even the super corrupt prison guards union (that makes the teachers union look like a bunch of girl scouts). I’ve been critical of the prison guards for decades as I’ve seen the bribe politicians on both sides of the aisle to get more and more. It has been about a decade since the Mercury News ran a story about the huge number of guards that make over $200K and they had a photo of a guy with his car license plate that said something like “JOSE200K” (he was Latino, but I can’t remember if his name was Jose). Let’s get your friends up to speed on what I call the “prison industrial complex” that is doing everything it can to get as much money as it can without any care of anything else in the state that needs funding.
“You basically said that “I’m supporting something that I just said is bad for my kids”.”
Because I think the alternatives are worse IF Proposition 30 fails.
“By “we” I assume you are talking about your friends on the left that have had a blind support for ALL unions even the super corrupt prison guards union”
No. In fact, most of my friends on the left think of the prison guard union much as we do the firefighters.
” the super corrupt prison guards union”
Why do you say this? What is the foundation for this statement?
“Unfortunately, I am one of all too many parents in this
> community whose kids cannot afford to have two weeks less
> of schools because their educational standing is precarious
> to begin with.”
You forget that the wealthiest will put their kids into some program to make up for what they are missing if the schools close so these people will pay one way or another. Only those with kids in private schools or without children will pay less if 30 and E fail.
“If Measure E and Prop. 30 pass tens of thousands of Davis households will have several hundreds to close to a thousand less dollars to spend on our local economy.”
That statement is totally correct. If E and Prop. 30 go down to defeat Davis familes will have several hundred more discretionary dollars to spend. The close the $1000 figure comes from the added 1% to 3% extra state tax being assessed to family’s income over $250,000 of which I’m sure there are many in Davis. So David, you’re wrong, those numbers simply are true.
Jeff Boone’s argument from the previous article:
JB: [i]Our education system is stuck in manual labor mode. The innovation that can transform it to an affordable modern marvel (the same that has transformed every other industry) is blocked by the demands of the union-Democrat-managed adult jobs program.[/i]
That is like arguing that we should no longer maintain our roads because innovation and technology will bring us levitating vehicles that never touch the ground and move in three dimensions, a la The Jetsons or Star Wars. Your vision is admirable, and I’m sure that we will get there eventually, but not within the term of Measure E.
If you think we’re there already, then point out examples where innovation and technology is reducing costs for a [b]K-12[/b] system that serves everyone. Don’t forget to describe how your kindergarten of the future would work.
I also point out that we have a laboratory in the Davis schools for incorporating new technologies and innovations. It’s the Da Vinci Charter Academy. It hasn’t yet led to reductions in staffing, and while it serves some students quite well, not all students can learn effectively in such a setting.
Even so Rusty, if you make that much money, unless you are complete spendthrift, you are likely to be able to afford the increase. Additionally, if you live in Davis and have that kind of income there is a good chance you support education enough to be willing to pay. Remember these parcel taxes require 2/3 and usually get in the 75-80 percent approval range at the ballot box in Davis, so obviously the additional cost for those high earners is of little concern in this community.
[quote]so obviously the additional cost for those high earners is of little concern in this community. [/quote]more’s the pity…
[quote] Only those with kids in private schools or without children will pay less if 30 and E fail. [/quote]This has have to be the “stupidist” statement I’ve seen on this blog… it is also untrue. Mr Toad, you’ve convinced me… no on Measure E, Yes on Prop 30.
Points…
It is not the cost of the next tax; it is the cost of all tax including the next tax. It is that straw breaking that camel’s back. Using this Vanguard rationale, we could pass a new supplemental school funding tax ever year and it would “not cost that much”. The “rich” already pay a much greater share of total tax revenue. That share has steadily increased over the last 40 years. Higher tax rates on the job creators
California’s inflation-adjusted cost per student is significantly higher today than it was 30 years ago when all these “special” programs we hope to protect were standard offerings.
California’s cost per student is significantly higher than most other industrialized nations achieving much better outcomes.
California teachers are some of the highest-compensated in the nation.
When considering total compensation and the total hours worked, compared to the private-sector, California teachers are very well paid.
Parcel tax school funding creates a greater gap between education service haves and have-nots. More affluent school districts voting to tax themselves more are creating academic-elite kids that capture a larger share of a shrinking supply of college admission slots.
The opportunity being missed here is fixing the entire business model. The dream of the teachers union is that voters will eventually overturn prop-13. The union continues a time-tested strategy to hold kids as pawns in their quest to protect the status quo and to secure greater compensation and job security.
However, our funding problems are endemic. We have seen an explosion in entitlement spending and other government spending that competes with spending for education. Economic growth is anemic and will likely continue to be so for some time. Our population is aging and healthcare costs are skyrocketing. We have allowed a flood of poor and uneducated immigrants that we provide for.
Now is the time for innovation; not tax increases. The education system needs to be flipped. Technology should be implemented to improve efficiency and lower costs in targets areas, so funding can be directed in areas requiring greater funding. Teacher performance management and merit pay should be implemented. We should have a longer school year and much more choice. The goal should be to prepare all students for their next life-step: either college or the workforce.
Davis schools are better than average. However, we stand on a precipice of future decline. We can either wait until we have no choice but to transform; or start the work now.
If I would be presented a supplemental tax to fund this transformation, I would vote yes. However, I don’t support tax increases to fund the status quo. It would be equivalent to a bad long-term investment.
I wrote:
> the super corrupt prison guards union
Then Mr. Toad wrote:
> Why do you say this? What is the foundation
> for this statement?
I’ve got to know a lot of ex-cons working on construction projects and ALL of them have told me that in prison (noting that “jail” is much different than “prison”) the guards make tons of money selling drugs, phones and other things to the prisoners.
Don’t just believe me, earlier this year the LA Times wrote:
“Last year, California prison guards confiscated more than 15,000 contraband phones, nearly one for every 11 inmates. Even Charles Manson, arguably the state’s most notorious inmate, has twice been caught with contraband phones. Others have called for searches of prison employees — a main source of contraband cellphones, officials say — on their way into work. The politically powerful California prison guards’ union has fought the search effort, arguing that such security measures would be an insult to its members and cost the state millions.”
At about $100 for small personal items, $500 for each phone, and over $1,000 for drugs it is easy for a typical guard to make and extra $100K a year with just a small amount of smuggling. If anyone tries to turn a guard in they will be tortured in ways that just blow my mind and make the stories of what they do at Gitmo sound like Davis High playground bullying by comparison…
The union pays off the politicians so they don’t do anything to reduce this extra cash flow to their members…
[i]Technology should be implemented to improve efficiency and lower costs in targets areas, so funding can be directed in areas requiring greater funding. [/i]
Once again, technology options have been implemented in DJUSD. Much of what you have proposed for use of technology in the schools is already in use here. The problem with your model is that technology does not cost a district less, and it does not yield personnel savings. Showing videos and using computer-aided learning is not going to enable funding to be redirected. You keep advocating for a university-style learning model — one professor, lots of students, TA’s for guidance. That model works at universities. It works for some situations in high school, and is already being used in some cases. It doesn’t really work at all in junior high.
On October 13 at 10 A.M. hpierce wrote “Have fun folks… got my ballot the other day, and have voted.”
So how can a statement I made today help you decide? Also, why put stupidest in quotations? If you think its stupid just say so.
Also its out of context standing alone HPierce but people can re-read the whole post for themselves its just above.
The Flipped Classroom…
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_teaching[/url]
Jeff: I see no reason to believe that would reduce personnel or overall costs.
JB: “Flipped Classroom” isn’t a new concept just because computers came around. It is a format in which students are judged autonomous enough to learn the “lecture material” on their own outside of class, and meet during class time to do “homework” or consult with the teacher about challenges. In a traditional (non-technical) setting, graduate seminars share a similar structure. Grad students read material outside of class and come to class prepared to talk about and process the information in various ways.
It is a concept incorporated to a significant degree at Da Vinci. Students are involved in project-based learning (PBL). Work load is more efficiently structured so as to research, learn, take in information outside of school, and get together during school time/hours to collaborate, plan projects, get help. I know this because my son was in Da Vinci for a year. He had a learning disability, and did not have the ability to structure his life to be ready to show up at school to collaborate.
So what’s your point?
That DJUSD isn’t doing this?
That’s false.
That the whole school system should be doing it?
I think it works for some students, not all. I’m sure you’re not one to advocate a one-size-fits-all world.
That DJUSD should be using more computer technology in the flipped classroom format?
Well, it is a heavily tech-based environment. I know second hand of Da Vinci students working off of digitally recorded lectures and Khan Academy material. You are always free to call up the Da Vinci office and ask questions.
That DTA is blocking this innovation?
Well, it’s in our school district, and has been around since 2004. It has grown steadily each year.
JB: [i]California’s inflation-adjusted cost per student is significantly higher today than it was 30 years ago when all these “special” programs we hope to protect were standard offerings.[/i]
You really don’t know your history, do you. They were [b]not[/b] standard offerings in Davis, 30 years ago. In 1982, Davis schools were dealing with several years of cuts, having by that point eliminated general music, elementary choir, and elementary instrumental music, curtailed library services, loss of buses (Davis schools had a district-wide bus system), and reduction of secondary offerings to five periods, by my understanding. It took up to ten years to recover lost programs, and some were never recovered. It’s an experience that informs me that if you want to keep good local schools, you have to fight for it locally. Generally, the state doesn’t give a damn if you want better schools as much as you would.
[i]California teachers are some of the highest-compensated in the nation.[/i]
They are also the most under-staffed at all levels and have been for years. More students per teacher, per administrator, per librarian, per custodian.
[i]California’s cost per student is significantly higher than most other industrialized nations achieving much better outcomes.[/i]
Significantly higher?? Latest figures ([url]http://www.sacbee.com/2012/06/21/4579408/california-falls-to-35th-in-nation.html[/url]) put California at 35th in spending, ~$9,300/student in 2010. Davis is about $1000 below that for the current school year. That is also about average for industrialized countries ([url]http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_ifn.asp[/url]). If mid-year cuts take place, then we’ll fall below the average for industrialized nations.
As for outcomes, again, what measures do you want to use? Math and reading scores? Do you think that’s sufficient? Not everyone thinks so. ([url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703766704576008692493038646.html[/url])
wdfi:
Related to course offerings and costs 30 years ago…
I will have to research your point that school course offerings were not less rich 30 years ago. That is not my understanding. I graduated in 1978 and had a great number of elective choices going to high school. For example, I would have acquired my private pilot license had not the teacher had a health setback before my solo flight. No doubt we were talking about funding issues back then. That backs my point that we are not solving the problems. The funding model is broken. Prop-13 will never be overturned. So why do we keep wringing our hands every year and allowing the unions to hold our students hostage to shake more dollars out of already stapped families?
Related to teacher compensation…
[url]http://247wallst.com/2011/02/26/the-ten-states-that-pay-teachers-the-most-and-why-it-doesnt-matter/[/url]
Related to education spending in the US compared to the rest of the world…
[url]http://mat.usc.edu/u-s-education-versus-the-world-infographic/[/url]
Interesting Jeff that you graduated the same month Prop. 13 changed California and its public education funding system so radically. The system that educated you has been abandoned, transformed and defunded. It is only in communities that can overcome the 2/3 threshold to pass parcel taxes that classes are not so overcrowded as to resemble crowd control. Even in Davis k-3 classes are now 30 up from 20 two years ago. The teachers are exhausted from the change and each child gets much less attention then is optimal. In other places its even worse. Measure E will provide a band-aid to help maintain programs that you remember from the days when you were educated under the state master plan for education.
Mr. Toad: [i]The system that educated you has been abandoned, transformed and defunded.[/i]
The prop-13 argument is just a bogus coordinated propoganda campaign to fatten the union bank account.
[quote]per-pupil spending dipped significantly following the 1978 passage of Proposition 13 and the effects of a recession in the early 1980s. Spending then rose at a healthy pace until the 1990s recession caused declines. Rapid state revenue growth of the most recent two years led to large increases in the education budget, including class-size reduction efforts, that have pulled education spending out of the 1990s decline to all-time high levels.[/quote]
[img]http://www.cscdc.org/miscjeff/caschoolspend.jpg[/img]
The fact is that we have increased spending per student since before prop-13.
It is time to get lean. It is time to do more with less.
This can be done. Every other industry has had to do the same.
Can you finish the chart out to 2011 or 2012?
Money for education funding?
[url]http://www.caltax.org/201003_CalTaxResearchBulletin_Decade of Waste.pdf[/url]
Don here is a national chart.
[url]http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/this-one-is-of-the-charts/[/url]
I cannot find much on CA reporting trended inflation adjusted costs per student. Most of it is teacher-union-friendly propaganda that deals with CA rankings in per student spending. Of course spending has increased for most states. Maybe CA should be commended for growing slower than some. However, our population growth has been one of the highest… and much of that has been poor and uneducated immigrants. Those advocating for higher taxes to fund education also tend to be the ones demanding we allow high immigration and provide services for illegal immigrants.
JB: [i]I will have to research your point that school course offerings were not less rich 30 years ago.[/i]
I encourage you to do so. The Davis Public Library has back issues of the Enterprise that would probably inform you best. Budget season for schools starts shortly after Jan. 1 each year. That’s when you would find articles in the paper.
Mr. Toad is right, though. You probably wouldn’t have noticed as much in 1978.
JB: [i]Related to education spending in the US compared to the rest of the world…[/i]
which uses test scores in math and science as a measure of the quality of the education. Do you think that is the appropriate measure of the quality of education vs. other countries?
[i]JB: Related to education spending in the US compared to the rest of the world…
wdf1:which uses test scores in math and science as a measure of the quality of the education. Do you think that is the appropriate measure of the quality of education vs. other countries?[/i]
It is an important measure. It is a common measure. I think it would tend to be representative of most other important outcome measures.
Dropout rates are another… and in this the US leads.
If you do not agree, then what measures do you prefer? Remember that for it to be a measure, you have to be able to measure it. None of that touchy-feely subjective stuff please.
JB: Tell me honestly. Do you hire somebody to work for you based on their high school math and science scores? If not then why use it to judge the quality of an education system?
Yes, actually LOTS of touchy feely subjective stuff. Activities in which students learn to work together, develop discipline, perseverance, creativity, curiosity, etc. How would you measure this stuff ([url]http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703766704576008692493038646.html[/url])?