By Tia Will
For those of you who have not seen the movie, here is a brief synopsis from Rotten Tomatoes: “A failed global-warming experiment kills off most life on the planet. The final survivors board the SNOWPIERCER, a train that travels around the globe via a perpetual-motion engine.”
The population of the train is strictly segregated into different cars by class with the occupants of the front enjoying immense wealth and privilege while those in the back receive barely enough to sustain life. Of interest are the means by which this strict segregation is justified and maintained.
It is my opinion that we have a similar situation in the world today and a very small part of it has arrived on our southern border. We live in a limited space called earth rather than Snowpiercer. Our resources are finite and our population is growing.
We are segregated into different cars that we call countries. These countries have variable degrees of wealth. In the front of this train are the western democracies as well as a few smaller very wealthy states such as Japan and the Arab Emirates that have been successful with slightly different strategies from the West and some newcomers such as China which have amassed wealth using still different means. In the back of the train are what we call third world countries.
Within each of these societies are those of greater and those of lesser wealth. Some have chosen to treat their population more equitably, some not so much so. However, there are those pesky people at the back of the train who just can’t seem to get their act together to overcome ruthless exploitation by the “haves.”
This exploitation has sometimes taken the form of military land grabs, sometimes political or religious take-overs with exploitation or elimination of the minority group, and sometimes by financial exploitation.
We have experienced two of these in the southern United States. First we have the military annexation of the southern United States including Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and parts of California. Then we have the financial co-opting of many workers from Mexico and areas further south for labor so inexpensive that only those who are fleeing still more brutal conditions will accept it.
What is the US position on the treatment of refugees? Here is an excerpt from the Department of State: Appendix E Overview of US Refuge Policy:
“The United States works with other governments and international and nongovernmental organizations to protect refugees, internally displaced persons, and conflict victims, and strives to ensure that survival needs for food, health care, and shelter are met. The United States has been instrumental in mobilizing a community of nations to work through these organizations to alleviate the misery and suffering of refugees worldwide.“
From this, it would appear clear that we are, by unilaterally making the decision to repatriate the children on our border without due process, clearly abridging our own policy to “work with other governments, international and non governmental organization to protect….”
Now one may assert that these children are not refugees. But how do we know these children are not refugees without a due process investigation of each? And how can a penniless 14 year-old obtain the legal assistance needed for this due process?
Seemingly safe within our First Class car we, as a people, have been content to unquestioningly accept our luxuries as due us by our position as inhabitants of this country. Many of us have achieved our position by birth to “first class” parents, not by any effort of our own. We tsk over pictures of refugees fleeing distant wars and famines, are critical of those who will not provide aid, and ignore or condemn the same needs presenting on our own border.
My question is: Is this really the best that we can do? Shouldn’t we apply our own principles of due process and protection of refugees? Can we not as individuals, private groups, and as a nation act with even a little more compassion toward those who are fleeing danger at home? Those facing life-threatening circumstances in Coach – into which they were born and now seek, not to live off our wealth but to work for a place in our car, rather than face death at the hands of gangs, or militia, or poor nutrition or medical care – are deserving of a better fate.
What outcry do we hear? Do we hear calls for the Public Health Service or Doctors without Borders to help provide medical care for these children? Or for Bill and Melinda Gates, or Brad and Angelina, or George Soros or other billionaires to help set up assistance?
If so, I am not hearing about it. What I hear are cries to throw them back out of First Class into the back, “where they belong.” I hear cries to bring in the National Guard to shore up the border.
And what is the rationale for these cries? What I hear most often is that “we” cannot afford it. But my answer is that we can and should. The cost would be for the wealthiest of us to do three things.
1) Make the realization that human life is more important than our toys and trips (yes, mine to Hawaii included).
2) We would have to decide to promote the sharing of our wealth with those less fortunate than ourselves and as policy, not just a suggestion. We have already seen how far private charity falls short in alleviating suffering.
3) We would have to agree to put our stated principles into action instead of merely paying lip service to them at convenient moments such as the 4th of July.
If the wealthiest among us were to lead the way on establishing the more egalitarian society that we claim to be, others would over time, recognizing that their way of life was not being threatened, accept this new precept that places human life above material wealth.
I am not actually arguing for anything radical. I believe in the Christian and American principles of charity toward others and a helping hand for the less fortunate. I believe in basic human rights. I believe these rights apply to all humans regardless of location of birth or national borders.
I believe that we have the ability to live up to these principles and that what is lacking at this point is our awareness and willingness to do so. I believe that we will not be the country that we claim to be, but which we only aspire to be, until we stop turning our backs on the helpless on our borders and welcome them into our society until which time they can safely be returned to their own.
Tia wrote:
> Within each of these societies are those of greater and those of lesser wealth.
> Some have chosen to treat their population more equitably, some not so much
> so. However, there are those pesky people at the back of the train who just
> can’t seem to get their act together to overcome ruthless exploitation by the “haves”.
Here in America (just like in different “train cars” and “countries”) we also have homes with greater and lesser wealth.
Some people feel that we should teach people how to put bad people in jail (like a dad pimping out his daughter or beating his sons or crooked Mexican cop stealing more than a mobster) clean up their dirty vermin infested homes (cleaning does not cost a lot of money yet many here and in Mexico literally sleep in trash heaps) and learn a skill where the poor family (or people in a poor country) can make money. Many call these people the “teach them to fish crowd”.
Other people feel we should just let bad people do horrible things in homes and countries and tell those that want to leave that we don’t care about the rule of law. Then build new clean housing for refugees of other countries and bad homes who can’t be bothered to clean up their own countries and homes and give them (aka take from the shrinking population of taxpayers) cash, education and health care. Many call these people the “give the man an EBT card to buy fish” crowd.
Tia wrote:
> Within each of these societies are those of greater and those of lesser wealth.
> Some have chosen to treat their population more equitably, some not so much
> so. However, there are those pesky people at the back of the train who just
> can’t seem to get their act together to overcome ruthless exploitation by the “haves”.
Here in America (just like in different “train cars” and “countries”) we also have homes with greater and lesser wealth.
Some people feel that we should teach people how to put bad people in jail (like a dad pimping out his daughter or beating his sons or crooked Mexican cop stealing more than a mobster) clean up their dirty vermin infested homes (cleaning does not cost a lot of money yet many here and in Mexico literally sleep in trash heaps) and learn a skill where the poor family (or people in a poor country) can make money. Many call these people the “teach them to fish crowd”.
Other people feel we should just let bad people do horrible things in homes and countries and tell those that want to leave that we don’t care about the rule of law. Then build new clean housing for refugees of other countries and bad homes who can’t be bothered to clean up their own countries and homes and give them (aka take from the shrinking population of taxpayers) cash, education and health care. Many call these people the “give the man an EBT card to buy fish” crowd.
SouthofDavis
While it is true that I have, in all of the countries that I have visited ( Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Turkey, Haiti
and the United States) seen people sleeping under whatever they were able to salvage to stay warm ( what you are describing as “a pile of trash”) I have never seen anyone who did not have a mental illness doing that by choice.
Here is the critical difference. You seem to believe that people live in firth because that is their preference. What I see is people living in” filth “because it is the best that they can do.
What your argument denies is what I have seen again and again. Women maintaining their one or two room homes, often constructed from whatever building materials they can scrounge up from other people’s refuse and cobble together as clean as they possibly can by constant sweeping and scouring often with dry cloths since their access to clean water is limited. As for “vermin” any homeowner in Davis can tell you that it is very hard to keep out the various local vermin without the help of an exterminator or at least rodent poison. Now imagine that task without benefit of mouse trap, poison or professional. On one of my daughter’s outreach trips, a rat dropped from the rafters onto the netting of her bed. I naively asked her if she had told the owner. Her response was obvious.
“No, mom, what was he going to do ? Call the exterminator ? ” This was a family of five living in two rooms with no phone, no electricity, outside plumbing and with both parents working, the man outside the home, the woman inside constantly.
Unless one has gone oneself and seen, the circumstances that some of these people are born into and live with day to day are unfathomable to those of us who have never seen a scrap of soap or a sponge as a luxury beyond their means.
Tia wrote:
> While it is true that I have, in all of the countries that I have visited
> ( Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Turkey, Haiti and the United States)
> seen people sleeping under whatever they were able to salvage to stay
> warm ( what you are describing as “a pile of trash”) I have never seen
> anyone who did not have a mental illness doing that by choice.
I don’t know how you define “mental illness” but here in Davis you can find MANY kids with high IQs (and good GPAs) sleeping in roach infested rooms surrounded by pizza boxes and red cups just feet away from mold infested bathrooms that have NEVER had ANY cleaning since they moved in. I have spent a lot of time doing volunteer work in Mexico and it is a challenge to get many of the poor kids to actually put stuff in the trash (vs. just dropping it on the ground). I have never been to Haiti (or Turkey), but after the big earthquake I talked with a MD friend who went down with “Doctors without Borders” and he said that the “culture” is different down there where most (but not all) don’t seem interested in getting trash (including medical waste) in to trash containers (the volunteers brought tons of trash bags) if you Google “Haitian refugee camp trash” you get MILLIONS of hits and can spend the rest of the day looking at photos like this one:
http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/01/40/25/394588/3/628×471.jpg
> Here is the critical difference. You seem to believe that people live
> in firth because that is their preference. What I see is people living
> in” filth “because it is the best that they can do.
Do you really think that the UCD fraternity bathrooms are filthy because it is the “best they can do”? If I throw a candy wrapper on a street in Davis a neighbor will probably pick it up within the hour, while a few miles East of us in Oak Park the wrapper will probably sit for months (mixed in with lots of other trash that does not get picked up), is there something I don’t know about that prevents the residents of Oak Park from picking up trash (or pulling weeds and/or throwing down $2 of grass seed)? When I was younger I spent a lot of time camping (and surfing) in Mexico. It is common for a local (Mexican National) family to have a picnic with a piñata and leave the remnants of the piñata along with all the candy wrappers and their picnic trash. Do you think that Mexican citizens are not “able” to pick up this trash (or are they just hoping that the gringos will pick up their trash and bag it up wit their trash to take back to the US)?
> On one of my daughter’s outreach trips, a rat dropped from the rafters onto
> the netting of her bed. I naively asked her if she had told the owner. Her
> response was obvious. “No, mom, what was he going to do ? Call the exterminator ? ”
Most (but not all) of us here in Davis know that if we walk out in our back yard with a loaf of bread and start tossing bread on the ground we will soon have a lot of birds back yard. Most of us also know that if we leave food out in our kitchen it will attract bugs. Most (but not all) of the worlds poor are not really clear that leaving food out attracts bugs and other animals (or know that putting mud and/or steel wool in cracks will keep rodents out of their “homes”)
> Unless one has gone oneself and seen, the circumstances that some of these
> people are born into and live with day to day are unfathomable to those of us
> who have never seen a scrap of soap or a sponge as a luxury beyond their means.
I’ve not only seen it I’ve been on my hands and knees helping them clean and pack mud and/or cement in to cracks that will try and bugs and rats out.
In my life it is sad to see America getting more and more like Mexico where the government (both the blue team and the red team) is getting more and more corrupt and primarily concerned with helping the rich and powerful not the poor or middle class (both red and blue team people) making it harder and harder for anyone to get a decent job (where the rich and connected pay them a decent wage) or start a business (that may compete with and cut the income of the rich and connected). The article below talks about the problems Greece has and how they are coming to America. I’m not saying that Tia wants more poor people to come to America so she has more “customers” and makes more money, but many of the people that are getting rich helping the “poor” do want more “customers” since with more people to “help” they get promoted and make more and can hire more friends and relatives to get on the “gravy train” (until they retire with their gold plated pensions and Cadillac health plans).
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/07/07/regulations-class-wealth-income-inequality-opportunity-reynolds-column/12266651/
The bottom line is if I had a dirty messy home in Oak Park with bad mean messy parents and the Davis cops did not enforce the law it would be a lot easier to “cross the border” in to Davis with my sister and break a window to illegally (aka without proper documentation) move in to Tia’s clean and nice guest room and get free food from her clean and nice kitchen and go to the nice clean Davis Schools (knowing Davis will just vote for another parcel tax to pay for me and all my friends that will come when I let them know that you will not be sent back when you break in to a Davis home and get free place to live, free food and a free education)…
SouthofDavis
“Most (but not all) of the worlds poor are not really clear that leaving food out attracts bugs and other animals (or know that putting mud and/or steel wool in cracks will keep rodents out of their “homes”)”
I would truly like to know how you have decided that “most” of the world’s poor are not really
clear…..”
What I have observed in my travel is that there is frequently a different tempo between discarding and clean up than we utilize here. An example from Haiti where the tradition in some houses is exactly as you said, to discard used items on the floor instead of into a trash receptacle. This does not make them any more or less dirty, because entirety of the floor is meticulously swept several times a day. It is not that refuse is allowed to accumulate, it is just cleared up on a schedule instead of piece meal. Also since there is no organized trash pickup in many communities, it is piled outside for the evening burn. Just because their strategy for clean up is different from ours does not mean that they do not have an effective strategy.
Maybe I’m part Haitiin and don’t know it. I like that way of doing things. My toddlers would have loved to help me sweep once an hour (they had small broms and loved them!) rather than have Mommy go around picking stuf up constantly.
This reminds me of Americans in movie theaters, the one place that many throw their trash on the sticky floor.
South of Davis–re: “In my life it is sad to see America getting more and more like Mexico where the government (both the blue team and the red team) is getting more and more corrupt and primarily concerned with helping the rich and powerful not the poor or middle class (both red and blue team people) making it harder and harder for anyone to get a decent job (where the rich and connected pay them a decent wage) or start a business (that may compete with and cut the income of the rich and connected).”
–spot on! I’m hoping that more americans are waking up to these realities and force changes to our political system to stem/reverse these trends (must start with huge reforms in campaign finance and lobbying; as I see it having election campaigns mainly publicly funded).
Re: cleanliness issues–among students, particularly young men, this is due mainly to carelessness. Among poor non-student adults in USA and other countries, I would attribute lack of cleaning of living quarters to demoralization; also secondarily to poor physical and mental/emotional health among many.
tribeUSA
‘changes to our political system to stem/reverse these trends (must start with huge reforms in campaign finance and lobbying; as I see it having election campaigns mainly publicly funded).”
Now here is a definite point of agreement.
Tia wrote:
> Now here is a definite point of agreement.
I’m wondering if Tia will support my “if you take money from someone you don’t get to vote on anything that will give them money” simple campaign finance reform idea (that will never see the light of day).
I’m fine if defense contractors (corporations that are people) want to give millions to people they like I just want to make sure those people can’t vote to give them a big fat contract down the road, same with unions, I’m fine if they give millions (or go door to door) in support of people they like. I just want to make sure those people have to recuse themselves when it comes time to vote for union pay and benefit raises…
SouthofDavis
While it is true that I have, in all of the countries that I have visited ( Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Turkey, Haiti
and the United States) seen people sleeping under whatever they were able to salvage to stay warm ( what you are describing as “a pile of trash”) I have never seen anyone who did not have a mental illness doing that by choice.
Here is the critical difference. You seem to believe that people live in firth because that is their preference. What I see is people living in” filth “because it is the best that they can do.
What your argument denies is what I have seen again and again. Women maintaining their one or two room homes, often constructed from whatever building materials they can scrounge up from other people’s refuse and cobble together as clean as they possibly can by constant sweeping and scouring often with dry cloths since their access to clean water is limited. As for “vermin” any homeowner in Davis can tell you that it is very hard to keep out the various local vermin without the help of an exterminator or at least rodent poison. Now imagine that task without benefit of mouse trap, poison or professional. On one of my daughter’s outreach trips, a rat dropped from the rafters onto the netting of her bed. I naively asked her if she had told the owner. Her response was obvious.
“No, mom, what was he going to do ? Call the exterminator ? ” This was a family of five living in two rooms with no phone, no electricity, outside plumbing and with both parents working, the man outside the home, the woman inside constantly.
Unless one has gone oneself and seen, the circumstances that some of these people are born into and live with day to day are unfathomable to those of us who have never seen a scrap of soap or a sponge as a luxury beyond their means.
Tia wrote:
> While it is true that I have, in all of the countries that I have visited
> ( Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Turkey, Haiti and the United States)
> seen people sleeping under whatever they were able to salvage to stay
> warm ( what you are describing as “a pile of trash”) I have never seen
> anyone who did not have a mental illness doing that by choice.
I don’t know how you define “mental illness” but here in Davis you can find MANY kids with high IQs (and good GPAs) sleeping in roach infested rooms surrounded by pizza boxes and red cups just feet away from mold infested bathrooms that have NEVER had ANY cleaning since they moved in. I have spent a lot of time doing volunteer work in Mexico and it is a challenge to get many of the poor kids to actually put stuff in the trash (vs. just dropping it on the ground). I have never been to Haiti (or Turkey), but after the big earthquake I talked with a MD friend who went down with “Doctors without Borders” and he said that the “culture” is different down there where most (but not all) don’t seem interested in getting trash (including medical waste) in to trash containers (the volunteers brought tons of trash bags) if you Google “Haitian refugee camp trash” you get MILLIONS of hits and can spend the rest of the day looking at photos like this one:
http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/01/40/25/394588/3/628×471.jpg
> Here is the critical difference. You seem to believe that people live
> in firth because that is their preference. What I see is people living
> in” filth “because it is the best that they can do.
Do you really think that the UCD fraternity bathrooms are filthy because it is the “best they can do”? If I throw a candy wrapper on a street in Davis a neighbor will probably pick it up within the hour, while a few miles East of us in Oak Park the wrapper will probably sit for months (mixed in with lots of other trash that does not get picked up), is there something I don’t know about that prevents the residents of Oak Park from picking up trash (or pulling weeds and/or throwing down $2 of grass seed)? When I was younger I spent a lot of time camping (and surfing) in Mexico. It is common for a local (Mexican National) family to have a picnic with a piñata and leave the remnants of the piñata along with all the candy wrappers and their picnic trash. Do you think that Mexican citizens are not “able” to pick up this trash (or are they just hoping that the gringos will pick up their trash and bag it up wit their trash to take back to the US)?
> On one of my daughter’s outreach trips, a rat dropped from the rafters onto
> the netting of her bed. I naively asked her if she had told the owner. Her
> response was obvious. “No, mom, what was he going to do ? Call the exterminator ? ”
Most (but not all) of us here in Davis know that if we walk out in our back yard with a loaf of bread and start tossing bread on the ground we will soon have a lot of birds back yard. Most of us also know that if we leave food out in our kitchen it will attract bugs. Most (but not all) of the worlds poor are not really clear that leaving food out attracts bugs and other animals (or know that putting mud and/or steel wool in cracks will keep rodents out of their “homes”)
> Unless one has gone oneself and seen, the circumstances that some of these
> people are born into and live with day to day are unfathomable to those of us
> who have never seen a scrap of soap or a sponge as a luxury beyond their means.
I’ve not only seen it I’ve been on my hands and knees helping them clean and pack mud and/or cement in to cracks that will try and bugs and rats out.
In my life it is sad to see America getting more and more like Mexico where the government (both the blue team and the red team) is getting more and more corrupt and primarily concerned with helping the rich and powerful not the poor or middle class (both red and blue team people) making it harder and harder for anyone to get a decent job (where the rich and connected pay them a decent wage) or start a business (that may compete with and cut the income of the rich and connected). The article below talks about the problems Greece has and how they are coming to America. I’m not saying that Tia wants more poor people to come to America so she has more “customers” and makes more money, but many of the people that are getting rich helping the “poor” do want more “customers” since with more people to “help” they get promoted and make more and can hire more friends and relatives to get on the “gravy train” (until they retire with their gold plated pensions and Cadillac health plans).
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/07/07/regulations-class-wealth-income-inequality-opportunity-reynolds-column/12266651/
The bottom line is if I had a dirty messy home in Oak Park with bad mean messy parents and the Davis cops did not enforce the law it would be a lot easier to “cross the border” in to Davis with my sister and break a window to illegally (aka without proper documentation) move in to Tia’s clean and nice guest room and get free food from her clean and nice kitchen and go to the nice clean Davis Schools (knowing Davis will just vote for another parcel tax to pay for me and all my friends that will come when I let them know that you will not be sent back when you break in to a Davis home and get free place to live, free food and a free education)…
SouthofDavis
“Most (but not all) of the worlds poor are not really clear that leaving food out attracts bugs and other animals (or know that putting mud and/or steel wool in cracks will keep rodents out of their “homes”)”
I would truly like to know how you have decided that “most” of the world’s poor are not really
clear…..”
What I have observed in my travel is that there is frequently a different tempo between discarding and clean up than we utilize here. An example from Haiti where the tradition in some houses is exactly as you said, to discard used items on the floor instead of into a trash receptacle. This does not make them any more or less dirty, because entirety of the floor is meticulously swept several times a day. It is not that refuse is allowed to accumulate, it is just cleared up on a schedule instead of piece meal. Also since there is no organized trash pickup in many communities, it is piled outside for the evening burn. Just because their strategy for clean up is different from ours does not mean that they do not have an effective strategy.
Maybe I’m part Haitiin and don’t know it. I like that way of doing things. My toddlers would have loved to help me sweep once an hour (they had small broms and loved them!) rather than have Mommy go around picking stuf up constantly.
This reminds me of Americans in movie theaters, the one place that many throw their trash on the sticky floor.
South of Davis–re: “In my life it is sad to see America getting more and more like Mexico where the government (both the blue team and the red team) is getting more and more corrupt and primarily concerned with helping the rich and powerful not the poor or middle class (both red and blue team people) making it harder and harder for anyone to get a decent job (where the rich and connected pay them a decent wage) or start a business (that may compete with and cut the income of the rich and connected).”
–spot on! I’m hoping that more americans are waking up to these realities and force changes to our political system to stem/reverse these trends (must start with huge reforms in campaign finance and lobbying; as I see it having election campaigns mainly publicly funded).
Re: cleanliness issues–among students, particularly young men, this is due mainly to carelessness. Among poor non-student adults in USA and other countries, I would attribute lack of cleaning of living quarters to demoralization; also secondarily to poor physical and mental/emotional health among many.
tribeUSA
‘changes to our political system to stem/reverse these trends (must start with huge reforms in campaign finance and lobbying; as I see it having election campaigns mainly publicly funded).”
Now here is a definite point of agreement.
Tia wrote:
> Now here is a definite point of agreement.
I’m wondering if Tia will support my “if you take money from someone you don’t get to vote on anything that will give them money” simple campaign finance reform idea (that will never see the light of day).
I’m fine if defense contractors (corporations that are people) want to give millions to people they like I just want to make sure those people can’t vote to give them a big fat contract down the road, same with unions, I’m fine if they give millions (or go door to door) in support of people they like. I just want to make sure those people have to recuse themselves when it comes time to vote for union pay and benefit raises…
Tia, It sounds like you are experiencing a bad case of “liberal guilt”. Perhaps you should volunteer to work in one of the developing countries to actually try to improve the lives of the people there?
that seems pretty condescending. can’t you just have a difference of opinion as to the best way to help?
Topcat
I am surprised at this from you. In most of your posts you seem to have been making an actual point even if we are in disagreement. This is nothing but a cheap, and if you have read my posts, an inaccurate slam since I have made it clear that I have volunteered a number of times.
The point of these one day ( if locally or regionally ) or one week if out of country trips is not so much then limited amount of time that we spend with the patients. The far more important aspects are:
1) Those of us trained in the US, especially if we are experienced can serve as teachers to the doctors that accompany us who are typically natives who are repaying their training by serving in hardship areas. Our role is to pass on our knowledge and such skills as can be used in these rural settings. On my last trip to Honduras I worked closely with two of their doctors ( working at about the knowledge level in my specialty as first to second year residents ). They taught me about their society and helped with my language skills and I taught them my specialty.
2) Those who go on this trips gain a unique insight into the lives of the people there as opposed to the stereotypes that we see on our “news” programs. I learned a few new and better ways of doing a few things in my office since I didn’t have all the fancy gear that I have here and had to improvise. Going on these trips can be of great benefit to both sides. Although my experience is very small compared to those who go regularly it has taught me a great deal that I would not have previously appreciated.
Tia, It sounds like you are experiencing a bad case of “liberal guilt”. Perhaps you should volunteer to work in one of the developing countries to actually try to improve the lives of the people there?
that seems pretty condescending. can’t you just have a difference of opinion as to the best way to help?
Topcat
I am surprised at this from you. In most of your posts you seem to have been making an actual point even if we are in disagreement. This is nothing but a cheap, and if you have read my posts, an inaccurate slam since I have made it clear that I have volunteered a number of times.
The point of these one day ( if locally or regionally ) or one week if out of country trips is not so much then limited amount of time that we spend with the patients. The far more important aspects are:
1) Those of us trained in the US, especially if we are experienced can serve as teachers to the doctors that accompany us who are typically natives who are repaying their training by serving in hardship areas. Our role is to pass on our knowledge and such skills as can be used in these rural settings. On my last trip to Honduras I worked closely with two of their doctors ( working at about the knowledge level in my specialty as first to second year residents ). They taught me about their society and helped with my language skills and I taught them my specialty.
2) Those who go on this trips gain a unique insight into the lives of the people there as opposed to the stereotypes that we see on our “news” programs. I learned a few new and better ways of doing a few things in my office since I didn’t have all the fancy gear that I have here and had to improvise. Going on these trips can be of great benefit to both sides. Although my experience is very small compared to those who go regularly it has taught me a great deal that I would not have previously appreciated.
First of all. I really appreciate this piece from Tia. Unlike a lot of other people I know and can talk to, Tia is honest, clear and consistent about her liberal worldview. It is refreshing, if also sometimes very frustrating, for me to read her stuff, because it helps me understand how my friends with more left-leaning views think and process information.
Many of us have achieved our position by birth to “first class” parents, not by any effort of our own.
Now here is where Tia is largely missing the bigger picture about America.
There are no more or less “first class parents” in this country than there are in any other country. And I think if Tia thinks about this more carefully, she will probably agree with this point. In fact, I would say that hard working Americans, where both the mother and father (I can still use those terms without being accused of hate, right?) have to work and the kids are home alone after school, are not being first-class parents much of the time.
What Tia and other left-leaning people seem to be missing or are otherwise unable to accept for some reason is this thing called American exceptionalism. Tia has even argued against this concept. And she has made it clear that she does not believe in the sovereign rights of countries and states. People that don’t believe in American exceptionalism must believe that our America good life just happened by chance or luck. Or that we somehow tricked the rest of the world stealing a greater share of global resources.
Ok calm down Frankly… you are getting into the territory where you start to get steamed…
There is a very clear great big gaping hole in the understanding of people holding views like Tia’s… that hole is a lack of understanding about, first, the assessment of what we have become, and two, the understanding of the key contributing factors.
And I am leaving out the third consideration of the things preventing us from achieving the next level of greatness, because at this point we are mostly struggling with preventing the slide and spiral downward toward the typical mediocrity of others.
What has America become? This is the glass half full point of view. And frankly, I don’t have the time to make this extensive list. Suffice it to say that the USA has done more positive things for global humanity than any other country before.
But let’s just cut to the chase for the problems with Tia’s “world without borders” views.
The problem is that her desires would choke the life out of an already dying American middle class. By going forth to save the world’s poor the way she envisions we would have to take more away from those in the middle to give to those at the bottom. And in taking this approach we would destroy the careful balance of economics, prosperity and class mobility that is at the heart of why America has been so damn successful and why people all over the world want to migrate here.
Tia needs to get out the calculator to once and for all calculate the true cost of her social design. She has it in her head that there are enough wealthy people in the US to fund her massive adoption of global poor people campaign. If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion. That’s only a third of this year’s deficit. Our national debt would continue to explode.
There are just not that many wealthy people despite the myths of the left politicos and left media. The top 1% starts with families making $220,000 net income. q
Frankly
“American exceptionalism must believe that our America good life just happened by chance or luck.”
It is not true that if one does not believe in American exceptionalism that one “must believe”……anything in particular. I do not believe in American exceptionalism and I do not believe that our “American good life just happened by chance or by luck. I believe that America achieved our current status by a number of very complicated factors some involving hard work, some involving shameful treatment of other populations, some by negations that went favorably for the United States, and some by sheer military power. None of that is about chance or luck. Some of it we can be proud of, some of it should be cause for sincere regret that those who were in power chose to treat other abominably for their personal gain. Frankly, you often spend a good deal of time poking holes in arguments that I have never made and certainly do not believe but that you have heard some liberal say at sometime and therefore believe that we must all think that.
Frankly
“once and for all calculate the true cost of her social design. She has it in her head that there are enough wealthy people in the US to fund her massive adoption of global poor people campaign.”
This is yet another example of proving wrong something that I have never claimed. I have never, ever said that “there are enough wealthy people in the US to fund my massive adoption of global poor people. But you have decided that this is “in my head”. No Frankly, it is in your preconceived notion of what a liberal must think. What I have stated repeatedly is that I do believe that as a nation we do have enough wealth to support those that are trying to enter the country now as refugees. I have never, ever stated that the US alone can support all the worlds poor. But all the worlds poor are not camped out at our Southern Border. So you take your “slippery slope” fear, apply it to my limited statement and decide that what I must believe.
Frankly
“There are no more or less “first class parents” in this country than there are in any other country.”
Since I was using “first class” as it exists in the movie to apply to the wealthy, are you really going to claim that there are no more wealthy people in this country than in any other country on earth ? I surely am not understanding you correctly. Can your clarify ?
It also includes families making hundreds of millions per year.
In the U.S., the 1% accounts for about 20% of all income in the nation. The next 9% takes in about 30%, the middle 40% (“middle class”) about 30%, and the bottom 50% (“lower class”) about 20%.
Jim wrote:
> I don’t think that ANYONE (even any family) makes “hundreds of millions per year” (can you name some or even one of the families that “make” “hundreds of millions ” in a year)?
Below is a link to what taking all the money from the rich will do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1j-cCaKvdo
First, I didn’t write what you said I wrote. Please don’t attribute false quotes to me.
I think it’s safe to say that any family with a net worth north of $10B probably takes in over $100M. That would require a mere 1% average return on assets to achieve, a very conservative figure even after you discount the assets that don’t produce income (houses, cars, etc.). There are about 40 CEOs who fall into this category, and that doesn’t count their spousal incomes. Then there are the families that don’t even have income from labor — the “quiet wealthy” who collect income from capital but don’t hold a job.
My point wasn’t that there are millions of people making hundreds of millions per year, but rather the fact that earning $200K puts you into the 1% doesn’t accurately portray the nature of the 1%.
Jim wrote:
> First, I didn’t write what you said I wrote. Please don’t
> attribute false quotes to me.
Looking again it sure looks like you wrote:
“It also includes families making hundreds of millions per year.”
Is the Vanguard site putting “false quotes” under your name?
> I think it’s safe to say that any family with a net
> worth north of $10B probably takes in over $100M.
The Forbes 400 lists a total of 39 people with a net worth “north of $10B”
> My point wasn’t that there are millions of people making
> hundreds of millions per year,
There are not “millions” of people making hundreds of millions per year (there have only been a handful who EVER that made that much in a year).
Most stocks these days don’t pay a dividend and just because someone decided the million shares of Pets.com I own are worth $10mm more than last year does not mean I “made” $10mm that year (just like the average Davis family did not “make” and extra $100K since on average their home is worth $100K more than it was worth in 2011.
I’m not a defender of obscene CEO pay I just want you to get the numbers in your rant somewhere close to reality…
South of Davis
The problem with this is that no one is suggesting “taking everything away ” from anyone. What I am suggesting is that we can certainly afford due process of law for those now at the border. As Don has pointed out, our nation did not collapse from bringing in limited groups of refugees in the past and I highly suspect that we would not this time either.
So what you, and others are doing is holding up a straw man argument based on your slippery slope worse case scenario and saying “See….it won’t work.”
But of course, that is not what anyone that I am aware of is saying.
So why don’t we actually discuss the current problem without dragging in the
“supposed hell” that we must necessarily descend to if we take care of these kids.
Tia wrote:
> The problem with this is that no one is suggesting
> “taking everything away ” from anyone.
When the government prints (more) money (like the $3.9 billion for the current border situation) inflation takes a little from everyone.
Like Tia I’m doing OK and if the price of gas and food doubled I would not really notice, but that is NOT the case for most Americans.
P.S. I find it funny that most (but not all) people that talk about doing “little things” like recycling or driving a hybrid to help the environment never seem to think we also need to make a lot of “little changes” to fix the (massive) budget deficit…
We flood our nation with 50 million poor and uneducated immigrants over the last couple of decades, and then we have people putting out statistics to show how we have such growing income inequity and a growing population of poor people and how this somehow justified taking more money from the upper classes so that we can pay for even more poor people to come here.
Absurd does not begin to describe it.
First of all. I really appreciate this piece from Tia. Unlike a lot of other people I know and can talk to, Tia is honest, clear and consistent about her liberal worldview. It is refreshing, if also sometimes very frustrating, for me to read her stuff, because it helps me understand how my friends with more left-leaning views think and process information.
Many of us have achieved our position by birth to “first class” parents, not by any effort of our own.
Now here is where Tia is largely missing the bigger picture about America.
There are no more or less “first class parents” in this country than there are in any other country. And I think if Tia thinks about this more carefully, she will probably agree with this point. In fact, I would say that hard working Americans, where both the mother and father (I can still use those terms without being accused of hate, right?) have to work and the kids are home alone after school, are not being first-class parents much of the time.
What Tia and other left-leaning people seem to be missing or are otherwise unable to accept for some reason is this thing called American exceptionalism. Tia has even argued against this concept. And she has made it clear that she does not believe in the sovereign rights of countries and states. People that don’t believe in American exceptionalism must believe that our America good life just happened by chance or luck. Or that we somehow tricked the rest of the world stealing a greater share of global resources.
Ok calm down Frankly… you are getting into the territory where you start to get steamed…
There is a very clear great big gaping hole in the understanding of people holding views like Tia’s… that hole is a lack of understanding about, first, the assessment of what we have become, and two, the understanding of the key contributing factors.
And I am leaving out the third consideration of the things preventing us from achieving the next level of greatness, because at this point we are mostly struggling with preventing the slide and spiral downward toward the typical mediocrity of others.
What has America become? This is the glass half full point of view. And frankly, I don’t have the time to make this extensive list. Suffice it to say that the USA has done more positive things for global humanity than any other country before.
But let’s just cut to the chase for the problems with Tia’s “world without borders” views.
The problem is that her desires would choke the life out of an already dying American middle class. By going forth to save the world’s poor the way she envisions we would have to take more away from those in the middle to give to those at the bottom. And in taking this approach we would destroy the careful balance of economics, prosperity and class mobility that is at the heart of why America has been so damn successful and why people all over the world want to migrate here.
Tia needs to get out the calculator to once and for all calculate the true cost of her social design. She has it in her head that there are enough wealthy people in the US to fund her massive adoption of global poor people campaign. If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion. That’s only a third of this year’s deficit. Our national debt would continue to explode.
There are just not that many wealthy people despite the myths of the left politicos and left media. The top 1% starts with families making $220,000 net income. q
Frankly
“American exceptionalism must believe that our America good life just happened by chance or luck.”
It is not true that if one does not believe in American exceptionalism that one “must believe”……anything in particular. I do not believe in American exceptionalism and I do not believe that our “American good life just happened by chance or by luck. I believe that America achieved our current status by a number of very complicated factors some involving hard work, some involving shameful treatment of other populations, some by negations that went favorably for the United States, and some by sheer military power. None of that is about chance or luck. Some of it we can be proud of, some of it should be cause for sincere regret that those who were in power chose to treat other abominably for their personal gain. Frankly, you often spend a good deal of time poking holes in arguments that I have never made and certainly do not believe but that you have heard some liberal say at sometime and therefore believe that we must all think that.
Frankly
“once and for all calculate the true cost of her social design. She has it in her head that there are enough wealthy people in the US to fund her massive adoption of global poor people campaign.”
This is yet another example of proving wrong something that I have never claimed. I have never, ever said that “there are enough wealthy people in the US to fund my massive adoption of global poor people. But you have decided that this is “in my head”. No Frankly, it is in your preconceived notion of what a liberal must think. What I have stated repeatedly is that I do believe that as a nation we do have enough wealth to support those that are trying to enter the country now as refugees. I have never, ever stated that the US alone can support all the worlds poor. But all the worlds poor are not camped out at our Southern Border. So you take your “slippery slope” fear, apply it to my limited statement and decide that what I must believe.
Frankly
“There are no more or less “first class parents” in this country than there are in any other country.”
Since I was using “first class” as it exists in the movie to apply to the wealthy, are you really going to claim that there are no more wealthy people in this country than in any other country on earth ? I surely am not understanding you correctly. Can your clarify ?
It also includes families making hundreds of millions per year.
In the U.S., the 1% accounts for about 20% of all income in the nation. The next 9% takes in about 30%, the middle 40% (“middle class”) about 30%, and the bottom 50% (“lower class”) about 20%.
Jim wrote:
> I don’t think that ANYONE (even any family) makes “hundreds of millions per year” (can you name some or even one of the families that “make” “hundreds of millions ” in a year)?
Below is a link to what taking all the money from the rich will do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1j-cCaKvdo