By David M. Greenwald
Executive Editor
Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
Going to the candidates’ debate
Laugh about it, shout about it
When you’ve got to choose
Every way you look at this, you lose
—Simon and Garfunkel – Mrs. Robinson
I think I’m on safe ground stating this: it was bad. As one person on X put it, one guy lied, the other guy died. That and the famous line from “Mrs. Robinson” above sums it up – “every way you look at this, you lose.”
The polling after the debate showed that Trump by a 2 to 1 margin had the better performance. Certainly, as we know, debates are a visual medium, and I’m sure once people analyze the content, Trump’s performance may well plummet—but he looked and sounded better—and, more importantly, Biden looked like a person who cannot and perhaps should not be President.
Nate Silver, founder of news website FiveThirtyEight, who has been critical of Biden on the age issue for some time, called on him late last night to drop out, stating, “Denying Joe Biden’s decline has put Democrats in a terrible position.”
But the calls are growing louder than just Nate Silver. They are on the front page of the NY Times this morning—and they probably are not going anywhere.
The NY Times reported last night, “President Biden hoped to build fresh momentum for his re-election bid by agreeing to debate nearly two months before he is to be formally nominated. Instead, his halting and disjointed performance on Thursday night prompted a wave of panic among Democrats and reopened discussion of whether he should be the nominee at all.”
The Times explained, “Democrats who have defended the president for months against his doubters — including members of his own administration — traded frenzied phone calls and text messages within minutes of the start of the debate as it became clear that Mr. Biden was not at his sharpest.”
“Biden is about to face a crescendo of calls to step aside,” said a veteran Democratic strategist who has staunchly backed Mr. Biden publicly. “Joe had a deep well of affection among Democrats. It has run dry.
“Parties exist to win,” this Democrat continued. “The man on the stage with Trump cannot win. The fear of Trump stifled criticism of Biden. Now that same fear is going to fuel calls for him to step down.”
Mark Buell, a prominent donor for Mr. Biden and the Democratic Party, said after the debate that the president had to strongly consider whether he is the best person to be the nominee. “Do we have time to put somebody else in there?” Buell told the Times.
He added, as reported by the Times, that he was “not yet calling for Biden to withdraw” but that “Democratic leadership has a responsibility to go to the White House and clearly show what America’s thinking, because democracy is at stake here and we’re all nervous.”
Those were immediate reactions. Certainly Democratic leaders will watch internal and external polling as well as fundraising numbers over the next few days.
As Silver put it, “Maybe Biden can still win… But he was already behind, he’s very likely to fall further behind as a result of the debate, and — don’t neglect this — he still has four-plus months of campaigning (and one more debate) to go, and will have to survive what will be both relentless media coverage and unsparing Republican attacks against his age on every slow news day between now and November.”
The 1984 Reagan comparison probably doesn’t work here. Reagan was way ahead. He had a poor first debate against Walter Mondale, but, while in clear cognitive decline, was still able to put together the zinger that cemented the landslide that he wouldn’t use his opponent’s youth and inexperience against him.
As the NY Times put it: “Mr. Biden’s advisers have long dismissed any speculation about him dropping out, rejecting it as unjustified nervousness even as he has trailed Mr. Trump in battleground states needed for victory this fall. Biden aides and allies have repeatedly challenged the polls and pointed out that predictions of Democratic defeats in recent elections have been overblown. One reason they cited for an early debate was to make clear to the public that these are the two choices, and no one else will be nominated.”
But there is another way to look at this—they wanted the early debate to put doubts about the President’s age to rest and, instead, the issue has blown up.
Still, at this point, only the President can probably decide to step aside and let the convention coming up nominate someone else.
And that still seems unlikely to happen.
“Folks, the facts are if Joe Biden was going to step aside, he would have done so a long time ago,” said Symone Sanders, a former aide to Vice President Kamala Harris. “That’s not my opinion, that’s literally the facts. So no, he won’t be stepping aside tomorrow morning. He’s the nominee, and a number of Dems I suspect will be out defending him over the next few days.”
Perhaps. But we will have to see what transpires in the next few days.
Hell, he’s looked like that for years now. Everyone has seen it but Democrats have put their heads in the sand and ignored it. Jill Biden, a doctor, should know better but she continues propping him up and putting him out there. Some are calling it elder abuse.
I can’t stand Biden but there were times where I felt sorry for the man as he stared off into nothingness when he wasn’t talking. Even CNN and their Trump hating Jake Tapper and Dana Bash couldn’t save Biden. Biden prepped for weeks and was probably fed the questions ahead of time but still looked pathetic and lost.
Trump even looked like he felt sorry for Biden at times.
So who’s up next, Kamala? LMAO
Most likely I don’t think Biden will bow out. But if he does, there is a convention that has the ability to select the nominee.
But it’s my understanding that it’s already too late to change a candidate in several states, like Arizona and Georgia as of 12 midnight tonight..
Not sure how that could be given that the nomination is not official until the convention. What if the convention nominates someone else?
Yeah I thought the same thing but I read an article last night that stated what I wrote about Arizona and Georgia, two swing states.
I can’t locate the article now.
Keith, I believe the delegates chosen in primaries are obligated to vote for the candidate only in the first ballot. After that they are free of that obligation. If Biden says “I will not accept the nomination if nominated” then the nubers from the first ballot vote is recorded and they move to the second ballot because the first ballot did not result in a nominee.
Doug Burgum: LMAO
Marco Rubio: LMAO
J.D. Vance: LMAO
Tim Scott: LMAO
Any one of those four is 100 times better than Kamala. Have you seen her favorability numbers, even worse than Biden’s and I didn’t think that was possible. LMAO
If Biden does decisde to go the “I will not accept the nomination if nominated” route then in my opinion Kamala becomes “damaged goods” by association.
My personal preference would be a ticket of Gretchen Whitmer and Amy Klobuchar … with either one being the Presidential candidate and the other being the VP candidate.
The possibility of a two women ticket is very, very, very remote though.
Besides, both Whitmer and Klobuchar are from Rust Belt swing states. Picking a male VP candidate from one of the other swing-state regions would make for a more balanced and effective ticket.
Agreed, but they are the two who I have the most confidence about leading our country out of the current wilderness we are in.
Gretchen Whitmer? Seriously?
I’m the same age as Joe Biden.
Politics aside, I, and several million others of my vintage are wondering, “Is that me, now, or tomorrow?” While I may still one marble left to play, consider this scenario not yet offered:
Biden publicly steps down prior to the Democratic Convention. He also urges that all his delegates to vote for (fill in name). A Democrat immediately comes to mind and it would the GOP’s worst nightmare.
The first ballot vote–for the sake of procedure–may have to be a pro forma effort. The second ballot would select Biden’s choice as his successor. Whomever may be chosen, he/she would have to support the Biden Platform for continuity and to keep the Democratic Party unified.
Phil, I suspect this isn’t the name you have in mind, but for me that person would be Larry Hogan.
Biden said so many off the wall comments at the debate but I think this was the most disturbing:
Keith, what is off the wall about that? Domestic rape is a massive problem. Especially husbands raping their wives.
LOL Matt, brothers and sisters raping their sisters is a major problem in the U.S. and worthy of the Presidential debate said no one ever.
How does a girl who was raped by her sister need to cross state lines in order to get an abortion?
So my response here was supposed to be directed at Don Shor but it appears he deleted his comment, at least at the time of this posting.
Correct. I decided I didn’t want to engage with someone who makes jokes about rape.
What joke?
Maybe you realized that I would call you out on what you wrote so you deleted it?
Keith, the response to your “LOL Matt, brothers and sisters raping their sisters is a major problem in the U.S. and worthy of the Presidential debate said no one ever.”
was/is
“Pregnant minors presently have to leave at least a dozen states to seek abortions even when they were impregnated by rape or via incest. This is a major issue to many Americans.”
And then there’s this ditty:
Keith, there is no denying that Biden lost his train of thought at that point and flip-flopped “COVID” and “Medicare.” That was an inadvertent gaffe. On the other side of the ledger were the willful lies that Trump told.
TRUMP: “They talk about a relatively small number of people that went to the Capitol and in many cases were ushered in by the police.”
That’s false. The attack on the U.S. Capitol was the deadliest assault on the seat of American power in over 200 years. As thoroughly documented by video, photographs and people who were there, thousands of people descended on Capitol Hill in what became a brutal scene of hand-to-hand combat with police.
TRUMP, on then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s actions on Jan. 6: “Because I offered her 10,000 soldiers or National Guard and she turned them down.”
THE FACTS: Pelosi did not direct the National Guard. The Capitol Police Board makes the decision on whether to call National Guard troops to the Capitol. It is made up of the House Sergeant at Arms, the Senate Sergeant at Arms and the Architect of the Capitol. The board decided not to call the guard ahead of the insurrection but did eventually request assistance after the rioting had already begun, and the troops arrived several hours later. Further, as the Capitol came under attack, she and then-Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell called Trump for for military assistance, including from the National Guard.
TRUMP, on Biden: “He wants to raise your taxes by four times.”
That’s not accurate. It has no basis in fact. Biden has clearly stated that he wants to prevent tax increases on anyone making less than $400,000, which is the vast majority of taxpayers.
TRUMP, on taxes “On January 6th we had the lowest taxes ever. We had the lowest regulations ever on January 6th.”
Federal income taxes did not exist until 1913, so income tax rates were zero prior to 1913, and tax rates have fluctuated up and down significantly in the decades since. Rates were lower in the 1920s, just prior to the Great Depression. Trump did cut taxes during his time in the White House, but the rates weren’t the lowest in history.
Government regulations have also ebbed and flowed in the country’s history. While Trump did reduce some regulations, he didn’t take the country back to the less regulated days of its past.
TRUMP: “The problem they have is they’re radical because they will take the life of a child in the eighth month, the ninth month, and even after birth, after birth.”
Trump inaccurately referred to abortions after birth. Killing infants after birth is a crime in every state, and no state has passed a law that allows killing a baby after birth.
TRUMP: “We had the greatest economy in history.”
That’s not accurate. Trump ignores the fact that the pandemic triggered a massive recession during his presidency. The government borrowed $3.1 trillion in 2020 to stabilize the economy. Trump had the ignominy of leaving the White House with fewer jobs than when he entered.
Matt, they both told some lies as they both often do.
Biden holed up for a week and prepped with something like 16 advisors and still was a total gaffe machine. Oh, but he had a cold…cough…cough
But just judging on who had their faculties more together and who had more energy there’s no denying that Trump won hands down.
Keith, I’ve perused the fact checking reports on the Debate, and I don’t find any Biden lies identified. What lie(s) do you believe Biden told on Thursday night?
Regarding who won and who lost in this Debate, I believe the biggest losewrs were the American people. It is not unreasonable to expect the candidates to stay away from which of the two of them is the better golfer.
The following was very interesting to me. When a Republican strategist is saying that it has a certain resonance.
Boy, you didn’t “peruse” very well.
Keith, thank you for posting that. I learned a thing or two.
I didn’t hear the troop deaths comment when I was watching the Debate. It definitely was an inaccurate statement.
The Border Patrol Union one is interesting. It also seems to be a misrepresentation. I’m looking forward to hearing more about it.
The Social Security and Medicare one is also interesting. I personally have heard Trump go after Social Security and Medicare with hammer and tongs. Where Trump stands on that right now is anyone’s guess.
The income taxes one is a slice and dice issue. I am sure (but do not know for a fact) that lots of billionaires pay only 8.2% taxes, but certainly they all don’t pay that low a rate. It begs the question, what was Trump’s own tax rate over the past 10 years?
The unemployment one is correct as stated. Your NY Post link clearly confirms that “Fact: The unemployment rate was 6.4% when Trump left the White House in 2021. Unemployment rose from 4.4% in March 2020 at the beginning of the pandemic to 14.8% in April 2020.”
The immigration one is also interesting, as noted by the NY Post. Trup reportedly had 7 million in 4 years … an average of 1.75 million per year. The Biden number for the first 2 years appears to be 6 million, but the rate of 2,400 per day calculates out to less than 900,000. If that rate holds then Trup’s 4 years would have 7 million and Biden’s approximately 8 million. There isn’t a huge difference there.
I almost forgot this Trump zinger, probably the best line of the debate.
There are a few posters here who seem better capable of explaining what Biden meant to say rather than what he actually said (because most people didn’t have a f’ing clue) makes them more fit to be President than Joe himself.
There is absolutely no chance that I will vote for someone that has been found liable for sexual assault and repeatedly defaming his victim, has committed fraud, apparently as a business strategy, violated election finance laws, is a convicted felon pending sentencing, and has trials pending for theft of top secret documents, treason. He lies and lies and lies. Trump is saying that he will make cuts to Medicare and Social Security, which many seniors rely on. I will vote for Biden if he is selected as a candidate or anyone else the Democrats choose. The debate was useless, because the moderators were useless. They let Trump spew his constant lies without interruption, did not challenge him on anything, and did not insist that he answer the questions they asked, but cut off Biden. Biden was clearly not feeling well, yet went ahead with the event. Trump claims that our Country is a disaster with a failing economy and poor reputation worldwide at the same time he claims that immigration is a primary problem for the U.S. (We are a disaster, but people are clamoring to immigrate here?) Trump claims that the U.S.A. is not great and only he can make it great again. I’ll pass.
Sharla, like you were ever going to vote for Trump anyway.
He’ll do just fine without you.