by Tia Will
“I told my community, there is nothing we can do now. But the church needs funds.” “We believe there is no discrimination in charity. It is the act that is rewarded. It doesn’t matter who is the recipient.”
Who said these words? Was it the pastor of a protestant church, a Catholic priest or a rabbi? There are some who post here that would probably make this assumption. They would be wrong. These are the words of Imam Hamid Slimi, of the Sayeda Khadija Centre in Mississauga who, after learning of the desecration of a nearby Catholic church, urged the members of his mosque to donate thousands of dollars to be given to the church for its restoration, as reported by Noor Javed writing for the Toronto Star.
One might reasonably wonder what an act of kindness by a single Imam and his followers in Mississauga, Ontario, has to do with us here in Davis. My answer would be a great deal. During my time here in Davis we have seen acts of vandalism against the local mosque, as well as in schools and on campus. We have seen an ethnically based murder and numerous lesser harms against individuals based on religious, ethnic, racial, nationality, gender, or gender preference discrimination. We have also seen people of faith and/or just plain good will put aside differences to help one another, regardless of group identification.
I believe that the Imam has this exactly right when he stated: “It is the act that is rewarded.” I would expand upon his comment to include the sentiment that it is only the act that matters, not who performs that act, or who benefits from the act.
People can choose where to place their faith. They can choose to place their faith in acts of kindness and charity. Or they can choose to place their faith in acts of hatred, war and terrorism. This mosque chose through their collective action to place their faith in the former. Members of ISIS and Dylann Roof, or Timothy McVeigh before him, put their faith in the latter. To excuse homegrown acts of terror as the acts of a single deranged individual is to ignore the tradition of hatred in which these philosophies are born. In the case of Mr. McVeigh, it was a hatred of the government. In the case of Mr. Roof, he expressly stated his specific hatred of blacks and the desire to start a race war. This cannot be interpreted as simply “mental illness” – as might pertain in the case of Adam Lanza. Mr. Roof was clear both in his words and his pictorial representation of himself that he saw himself as the vanguard of a righteous cause based on the hatred of a specific race.
Numerically, there is a difference. ISIS is much more successful in recruiting both locally and internationally than are the KKK, the Aryan Brotherhood or the Aryan Nation, or any of a host of neo-Nazi and other white supremacist groups. However, the message is exactly the same. It is a hate-based faith in one’s own inherent superiority and one’s inherent right to impose one’s philosophy and way of life on others – by violence if necessary. It can be dressed up in a number of ways none of which will ever obscure its basis in domination and degradation of “the other.”
There is no religion that has a monopoly on this kind of thinking or promotion of this kind of divisiveness and hatred. There is no religion that has a monopoly on acceptance and belief in love, kindness, and the acceptance of the beliefs of others as the basis for a harmonious human society. I believe that individual acts should be judged for their inherent value. Society needs to be protected from individuals whose philosophies make them dangerous to others. Equivalent acts should be judged and acted upon equally, regardless of the wealth, social connectedness, philosophy, ethnicity, race, gender or religion of the perpetrator and regardless of the same for the victim.
Imam Hamid has also made another statement that resonates for me.
“You cannot be a good Muslim until you become a good human being and you cannot become a good human being until you understand what humanity is all about…” He defines a good human being as “one who shows respect and concern for others regardless of their various backgrounds.”
When we judge others, either by an arbitrary grouping we have placed them in, or by the words and actions of others of that group, we are denying their existence as separate human beings who may or may not adhere to the beliefs of the group we are stereotyping. This applies whenever we are making a distinction between ourselves and another based on some pre-categorization we have made of them, on what others have said about them, about what we have read about their group or seen on whatever news we tend to prefer.
Iman Hamid clearly does not subscribe to the belief that all humans need be driven by hatred, disdain or intolerance. He seems to believe that placing our faith in mutual respect and caring for each other is a viable option. I share this belief and look forward to the day in which an action is judged on its own merits, not by the name, or age, or race, or gender, or religion of the person taking the action but based on whether the action engenders harmony or sows discord.
Thanks for the good read Tia.
Imam Hamid Slimi’s actions should lauded for his charity.
But…
Nice try attempting to attach moral equivalency of murderous Islamic fundamentalist terrorists to a couple of deranged white male mental health cases with Christian upbringings. You really have to scrape hard at the very bottom of the barrel to satiate that unending need to find those moral equivalent arguments to prop up your good-guy vs bad-guy actor narrative. But there is nothing at all equivalent to ISIS.
I applaud the Iman and his congregation. But this type of thing happens every hour within the Christian community. Why do you think this story is worthy of mention? Because it is not as common. In fact, Christian charity is so ubiquitous there is no sensationalism to be had reporting on it.
I think, in addition to the charitable reach across the aisle to this other church, the Iman should use the press opportunity to mention his disgust and rejection of all extreme elements doing their malice in the name of Islam. But, this Iman is known for his demand for reporting and government officials in Canada to stop connecting Islam to terrorism. His prescription for helping to fix the problem of violent Islamic fundamentalism is to stop talking about it as a problem with his religion.
So while I applaud him for demonstrating what we keep hearing is the REAL Islam… and charitable and loving religion… he should be continually criticized for not doing enough to fight the extreme elements within the global Islamic community.
I agree, that was really a stretch.
Appears you are a “christian jihadist”… you say that the story is ‘exceptional’… yet, can you then explain the Moslem community sheltering, providing a place of worship, for a Jewish congregation in Sacto within the last couple of years?
People of ‘true’ faith, act upon it, and the Jewish, Moslem, and christian faiths share very much.
ISIS is to Islam what the Inquisition was to Christianity. ISIS and the Inquisition (and I’m sure there were other examples) are/were PERVERSIONS of the faiths they cloaked themselves in. They are about power and control, not faith.
As to criticizing the Iman for not being more public about condemning ISIS, where are you, Christians, Jews and anyone of faith condemning gay bashing/murder, killing of health care providers, picketing of funerals of gay servicemen, etc., all in the name of God? [who I believe is really PO’d at them] Suggest you check to see if the walls of your “house” are ‘tempered’… if not, look out for shards.
You have two moral equivalency arguments: 1 – The Christian Crusades/Inquisition, and 2 – Christian gay-bashing.
For #1, if we are going Medieval then let’s roll up all of the atrocities of Muslims during that time and make the comparison. Let’s not reach back 1000 years and make modern comparisons. Because it seems like desperate Christian-bashing.
For #2, let’s add up all those Christian gay-bashing episodes and compare them to the same within the Islamic community. We don’t even have to go radical for that… and also let’s look at the treatment of women.
Every religion owns some intolerance and extremism. But this attempt to soften the criticism of the violent and murderous form of Islamic intolerance and extremism by pointing to the small number of generally non-violent acts of intolerance and extremism of modern-day Christians is… well… extreme and troubling.
Once again Frankly, you nailed it and make the other comparisons look silly.
You, frankly, don’t know an “equivalancy” when you see one… the equivalence is between individuals or groups acting badly despite the tenets of their faith, whether they be Christian, Moslem, etc. You admit yourself, “Every religion owns some intolerance and extremism.” And that also applies to atheists, agnostics, “free-thinkers”, etc.
The false equivalence you propose is faithful Moslem = Jihadist/terrorist.
ISIS falsely “cloaks” itself in Islam. Just as the KKK (literally) cloaked themselves in Protestant Christianity.
Unfortunately radical Islam grew from the Madrasa funded by so called moderate Muslim nations. And many of the so called moderate Muslim nations practice standard intolerance that far exceeds anything modern Christians are doing except for a de minimis set of examples that those craving moral equivalency comparisons revere.
I understand the difficulty here. There are truly moderate, peaceful and charitable practitioners of Islam. And most of them reject radicalism of their religion. But Islamic radicalism is much too prevalent and pervasive to conveniently sweep it away as just an aberration… especially when the so called moderate Muslims still practice intolerance far more extreme than anything we would and could accept in modernity.
And again, I am having a real hard time with the moral equivalency of the KKK and ISIS. Really? Can you not see the difference? Maybe the Nazis and ISIS. But then we are back to the historical comparison with current events. Do we give the nation of Islam a Medieval and pre-civil rights behavior pass in 2015?
Who are you referring to as “moderate Muslims?” Saudi Arabia? They’re not moderate if by moderate you mean tolerant. In fact, the Saudi royal family bears a lot of responsibility for what’s going on in the region today.
The KKK is a very good comparison if you’re looking at the atrocities of the First KKK and the ideology with some violence of the Second KKK. I’m curious how vigorously and loudly Protestant leaders of those times condemned them.
Frankly, you are practicing hyperbole again. There is considerably more “intolerance on the part of modern Christians” than you are giving credit to …
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Don’t ask me, ask hpierce.
On the KKK and ISIS, why do we go back to 1960 and earlier to make a comparison with 2015? And when did the KKK line up and behead thousands of people… including children just because they practiced a different religion. When did the KKK take thousands of women and young girls into forced prostitution? When did the KKK stone women to death for claims of adultery. When did the KKK destroy thousand year old historical artifacts? When did the KKK push thousands of gays off the tops of buildings? When did the KKK put people in a cage and light them on fire or drown them and film it for others to watch?
I am not excusing anything the old KKK did, but it is 2015 and what the old KKK did does not come close to what ISIS does and is doing right now.
Again this attempt at equivalency is very troubling. It is like you are saying that we should not be so hard on poor ISIS because of the KKK. Troubling to say the least.
Complete crap. I’m not saying anything like that. Stop this nonsense.
The present-day terrorist group closest in practices to ISIS that has Christian ideology would be the Lord’s Resistance Army. There’s little doubt that if they had the resources, internet know-how, and opportunity, the LRA would be doing much the same things as ISIS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Resistance_Army
Meanwhile, Muslims were fleeing the Central African Republic as Christian militias slaughtered them with machetes and burned their villages. That was 2014. There are other examples.
There is always a geopolitical component to these things, of course, and that is certainly the case with ISIS. But ISIS is an apocalyptic death cult that wants, more than anything, to draw the United States and western countries into a grand battle. We would be well advised to stop playing into their propaganda, and to resist the temptation to engage that battle.
The CAR events follow on previous Muslim attacks and persecution of the Christians in that area.
Again, a weak equivalency example.
So, Christians should not defend themselves?
ISIS is an Islamic-based apocalyptic death cult that is more extreme than all the other Islamic-based apocalyptic death cults.
Tell you what: I’ll stop playing this game now. I’m not sure any more what your point is.
Here’s a connection that CNN found that might allow one to establish an equivalency between the tyranny of the gay rights movement and ISIS.
CNN spotted an ISIS flag at a Gay Pride parade
Frankly
I feel that this story is worth noting precisely because I do not believe that it is any more rare for charitable acts to be performed amongst members of the Muslim faith than amongst Christians. How would either of us know the relative frequency ?
All either of us knows is what our own media and faith leaders have chosen to share with us. Both my own Christian mother and my Muslim mother in law were kind and charitable women. Both were blind followers of their own faith whose beliefs stemmed not from any critical thought process but simply because that was how they were raised. For you to make derogatory claims about a faith of which you seem to know little based only on their most extreme element does no credit to the values of love,understanding and tolerance that are ndational to the religion to which you claim adherence.
My point had nothing at all to do with one religion being superior to another. It was about the equivalency of actions, for good or evil, regardless of the identity of those involved.
Yes, religious faith is weird that way. Sometimes not logical. Often times not justified by scientific methods. It can be frustrating for us rational and objective types that crave data and proof. God does not reveal himself in material form… at least any form that is readily apparent and measurable with our current scientific capability.
But I don’t know why you or others feel the need to provide moral equivalency comparisons with Christianity and Islam. Both have extremism, but current Islam extremism has absolutely nothing in common with current Christian extremism. Just resist the temptation to make the comparison.
It’s comforting to think that Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion. Perhaps a look at some of these opinion poll results will prove enlightening:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
Thanks Topcat. Does not appear very peaceful or tolerant to me. Also seems to be many, many more than a small minority of Muslim radical extremists and supporters of Muslim radical extremists. Too bad we don’t have a local Iman attempting to explain how we should accept Islam as a peaceful and tolerant religion with these numbers.
And did you know that all of the major mainline Christian denominations allow gay clergy and welcome openly LGBT members?
But that won’t stop the Christian-bashing from the left.
“all of the major mainline Christian denominations allow gay clergy“. Can only come to the conclusion that you do not consider the Catholic Church “mainline”, or Pope Francis has given you an insight other Catholics have yet to be privy to. Or, perhaps just fractious, provocative hyperbole?
Topcat–opened the link; yikes thats much worse than I had thought–poor Europe, it would seem that their difficulties are only just beginning. If only we had leadership in the USA that had the wisdom to be cautious about allowing immigration from countries whose culture and traditions may not be fully, er, compatible with those of the USA, and we can keep the immigration rate from such countries very low. At the same time, we have had idiot leadership in the USA initiating bombing and killing all over the middle east for over a dozen years now, and we can’t blame much of the population for resenting everything about the west, with a growing minority ripe for radicalizing to gung-ho jihadi terrorist fanatics.
Counterpoint:
http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/07/thereligionofpeace-com-working-to-streamline-the-american-empires-war-on-terror/
TopCat
These are indeed disturbing numbers. However, what is not represented is how many who identify as Christian believe that the US has the right to invade other countries to dictate their from of government regardless of how many “collateral damage” deaths may occur amongst the completely innocent population. It does not represent how many who identify as Christian would actually support the murder of a physician who performs abortions. It does not represent how many whites actually believe in separation of the races and if they felt that there was any reasonable chance for success, would support physical as opposed to economic violence on minority groups. There is much about where we place “our faith” that is not represented in this one sided accounting.
Frankly
Do you consider my article Christian bashing ? If so , I would like you to specifically specify what I said that was in any way whatsoever anti Christian. If you do not believe that I was, then I would like you to specifically state that you were not including my article. Because after all, it was I, not “the left” who wrote this article. This was my citing of the article, with my particulate perspective its meaning. You say that you believe in personal, individual responsibility. But then you promptly deflect to what “the left ” believes and what the “left states” and how “the left is brainwashed” without any recognition whatsoever that “the left” just like “the right” is composed of individuals each of whom has their individual opinion on each issue. So do you, or do you not, believe in individual responsibility ?
Good points. We are all individuals. But as individuals we collect and filter and associate and adopt views that put us in common with others that form a group. I am of that group that you would consider on the right and conservative. I don’t agree with everything the right and conservatives believe, but much. And so I accept that label. And I am agnostic… don’t practice any religion on a regular basis. But I will protect others’ rights to practice their beliefs as long as their practice does not cause material harm to others. And I value the teachings of Christianity even as I reject some of it. And so I accept the label of Christian.
I did not say that you personally were Christian-bashing. But the political left is known for it. Just check out Bill Maher.
The motivation for my response was your connecting two individual nut jobs to the whole of radical and violent Islam apparently as a way to soften your criticism of radical and violent Islam. I was calling you out of the poor choice of examples and that tendency to find a few people in your bad actor camp (generally white Christians) and throw them under the bus in comparison to make your good actor camp (generally non-white and non-Christian) not seem so bad by comparison.
Frankly
“The motivation for my response was your connecting two individual nut jobs to the whole of radical and violent Islam apparently as a way to soften your criticism of radical and violent Islam. I was calling you out of the poor choice of examples and that tendency to find a few people in your bad actor camp (generally white Christians) and throw them under the bus in comparison to make your good actor camp (generally non-white and non-Christian) not seem so bad by comparison.”
Unfortunately you again have decided that you know my motivation better than I do. Please show me where I have ever written anything to imply that the actions of Islamic terrorists are “not so bad”. It is me that has consistently made the claim that equal acts should be judged and dealt with equally regardless of race or religion. It is at the moment that any given individual chooses to apply pressure to the trigger to kill an innocent human being that they “place their faith” in hatred. It does not matter to me whether they believe that they are doing it in the name of Allah, or doing it in the name of God, or in defense of their race or heritage. The act is the same and should be judged and treated the same if they are sane. Calling someone a “nut case or crazy” when this has not been medically determined does nothing but demonstrate your willingness to prejudge an issue before all the facts are in.
Tia,
What is the Islamic belief about gay marriage?
Interesting question, as Islam does not speak with one voice. They do not have the equivalent of a Pope, and even in the Catholic Church, many members have beliefs that do not conform to ‘official church doctrine’, and yet base their beliefs on their interpretation of scripture and their own God-given conscience/spirituality.
The inter-niecene divisions within Islam, at least those who cloak themselves in it, make the historic violence between Protestants and Catholics in No Ireland looklike a (bloodly) Sunday school picnic.
ISIS has killed far more (magnitudes more) Moslems than any non-Moslem folk. But frankly, those of us in the western world tend to look at Paris, Twin Towers, etc., rather than seeing the true terror ISIS/Al Quida/etc. imposes on the mostly Moslem folk in the mid-east.
Looks to me ISIS is more about politics/power than religion.
Clem
“What is the Islamic belief about gay marriage?”
I apologize. I genuinely do not understand the relevance of this question. I am sure that there are a range of “Islamist” beliefs about gay marriage just as their are a range of Christian beliefs on the same subject. Can you clarify ?
I would certainly be reassured and encouraged that Islam is indeed overwhelmingly a religion of peace if I heard more of the Imams and other religious leaders of Islam publicly denounce acts of jihadi-related terrorism when they occur; such as the recent trio of Islam terrorist strikes in France, the Mediterranean, and Kuwait a few days ago–ocassionally you hear the odd Imam or other religious leader denounce such acts (mainly if other muslims are victims); but I don’t get a sense of unanimity from the Islamic communities on this; mainly just silence.
tribeUSA
Perhaps you are not listening or reading widely enough. I would like to call every one’s attention to another recent article. As reported to the Daily Mail, an attack on British tourists in Malaysia by an automatic weapon bearing terrorist was thwarted when as reported by eyewitnesses, a group of Muslim hotel employees formed a line making a human shield between the surviving tourists and the gunman stating “you will have to kill us first, and we are Muslims”.
This kind of selfless action is not born of a faith that is only invested in hatred. However, these aren’t the kinds of stories that tend to crop up on Fox news or CNN. These stories do not feed into the image of Muslims as universally brutal and inhumane which of course is necessary to foster our identification of them as evil and the enemy.
Tia–yes, good to see that these stories, demonstrating that there are a large number of Muslim leaders and Muslims who indeed are peaceful and don’t support enmity with the west. What is concerning is that there is a large (rather than tiny) minority of Muslims residing in western countries who tacitly or actively support violence and/or sharia, as the statistics in the polls posted by topcat above demonstrates, and having little respect for the customs and traditions of the countries they have migrated to, have effectively set up Muslim enclaves within their host countries, instead of adapting and assimilating–this is a recipe for future woes and possible balkanization of the host country (as has been occurring in France).
Unfortunately, it is the destructive war policies of the west, mainly the USA, that have led directly to the recent waves of Muslim refugees and economic migrants–it is my understanding that a large fraction of the recent Muslim migrants illegally crossing into (including many thousands by boat) Europe have been from Libya, which was idiotically and criminally destroyed by USA military action a few years back; the social and economic gains made under Gadaffi have been completely destroyed and the country is now a basket case (like Iraq, Syria, and other places where western meddling and aggression has brought disaster to the citizens).
You do realize that in the US sharia principles generally are involved in economic behavior, right?
tribeUSA
I am in agreement with your assessment about the adverse effects of US meddling in the affairs of other nations.
I am not so sure that I share your rosy view of the relative benefits of blending in, or” assimilation” since, while I know that is the favored view of US history that has been taught in our country, I see the history of the US in much more violent and adversarial terms with the dominant culture of the time frequently using violence and discrimination to force the minority groups to either “assimilate” or be segregated forcefully. I will not bother to enumerate how many groups this has applied to as we all have seen them posted here multiple times.
hp–yes, I think I follow you here–based on the faith, fanatically held by many, in the infallibility and incorruptibility of the ‘invisible hand’ of the market as it exists in the west, and the need to bomb and destroy infidel states and peoples all over the world who do not venerate and institute the same ‘invisible hand’ as ours, as mediated by the priesthood consisting of the leadership of the beneficent western corporate and financial institutions.