On November 26, the Davis Islamic Center received an anonymous letter from a group purporting to be “Americans for a Better Way.”
Yolo County District Attorney Jeff Reisig called a press conference to stand united against hatred in our community. Leaders, he said, “have come together to declare our commitment to standing up and fighting against hate crimes and hate incidents.”
“We stand with our diverse communities at a time when hate crimes across the nation and the region are on the rise,” he said. “As the District Attorney I simply want the community to know that we will vigorously investigate and prosecute all crimes that we can prove in this regard.”
DA Reisig said that he and others are committed to “ensuring that our diverse community in Yolo County feels safe.”
He said, “If you see a hate incident, report it, we will act.”
Yolo County Sheriff Ed Prieto said that any complaint received by the Yolo County Sheriff’s Department “is going to be rigorously enforced and we will investigate every single complaint that we see.”
However, as Davis Police Chief Darren Pytel indicated, the letter that was sent does not represent a hate crime, as it does not have a specific and actionable threat against a group. Instead, it is classified as a hate incident.
Carlos Matos is the Chair of the Multi-Cultural Community Council (MCCC) started by DA Jeff Reisig a few years ago. He said, “This is one time when we all stand together and we all speak with one voice. So whatever that hate letter was trying to do – what it has done for us is (it) united everybody.”
Hamza El-Nakhal, former president of the Islamic Center of Davis, and member of the MCCC, called the letter “very ugly and hateful.”
He read from it, and the letter, similar to those sent across the nation, called Muslims “vile” and “filthy,” stating that “your day of reckoning has arrived.”
The handwritten letter said, “There’s a new sheriff in town, “President Donald Trump.”
The letter continued, “He’s going to cleanse America and make it shine again. And, he’s going to start with you Muslims. He’s going to do to you Muslims what Hitler did to the Jews.
“You Muslims would be wise to pack your bags and get out of Dodge,” it concluded. “This is a great time for Patriotic Americans. Long live President Trump and God bless the USA.”
He said “even before that letter, the rhetoric was really divisive.” Not just to the Muslim community, he said, “but to many other communities.” He said he was really concerned about what the next four years are going to look like.
“The letter was reported to the Davis police,” Mr. El-Nakhal said, “and ever since this letter became public, the Muslim community received an overwhelming support from faith leaders, political leaders, law enforcement leaders and the community at large.”
Hamza El-Nakhal indicated that across the country, however, Muslims have experienced a strong uptick in the number of crimes, incidents and hate speech directed against them for quite some time.
The FBI, he said, reported a 67 percent jump in hate crimes against Muslims in 2015. The last year saw 257 bias crimes against Muslims, compared to 154 crimes in 2014.
Davis Police Chief Darren Pytel said, “Words of hatred and terror such as this serve no rational or legitimate purpose.” He said that Davis is a community that celebrates its diversity, “we’re not just tolerant we embrace each other for who we each are.”
The community members, he said, “are aligning to stand up against hate and those who spread hate.” As a community, he said “we are coming together to protect each other against hateful words, messages, threats and violence. Hate is not a value that is welcome in Davis.”
Chief Pytel said that members of the Davis Police Department “serve with pride and we are proudly standing side-by-side with our community in spreading a message of inclusive. We also stand ready to protect those that are vulnerable.”
“We will turn the tide,” he said. “Those that are vulnerable now will become strong. We are surrounding ourselves with others that will stand strong next to them. They are partnering with the Davis Police Department to ensure that those that engage in hate are brought to justice.”
Davis Mayor Robb Davis said, “We are here today because of an act – written words – of hate. Indeed, they are words designed to sow fear and dread; to terrorize an entire community of people, our neighbors, friends, brothers and sisters … And what do we do with these words?
“Condemn them? Yes,” he said. “Reject them? Yes. But is that enough?”
He continued, “Someone has written of human speech (written or spoken): No one can tame the tongue (the word) – a restless evil, full of deadly poison. We use words to bless and we use words to curse. From the same place comes blessings and curses.
“The words written to the Islamic Center of Davis and sent to many other such centers and mosques around California and the nation are a curse. They are a curse on people and it is not clear what we can do,” he said. “But I believe that the most effective way to counter the curse is with a blessing – words can do either and so we counter the hate with a blessing.”
After reciting a blessing, he added, “This is a blessing to counter the curse, to put it away, to reject its premise, to counter its bile. May those who wrote it find the grace to renounce its message and turn away from their rage, lest it destroy them. Maah salaam … Go in peace having received a blessing.”
Supervisor Don Saylor thanked DA Reisig and Sheriff Prieto for bringing this together “because it illustrates that we stand together in Davis and Yolo County.”
He said, “We are here, because – it’s not in spite of or because of someone’s faith or someone’s persuasion, or any aspect of our character – it’s because every person has a right to be who they are as a part of our country. The kind of hate that is carried in the message that was delivered to the Davis Islamic Center and to dozens of Mosques around the country – we don’t stand for it.
“We don’t stand for it in this community. We don’t stand for it in this county. We cannot stand for it in this country,” he said.
Supervisor Jim Provenza said, “Hate crime or hate speech is not just a threat to those it is directed against, as terrible as it is. It is a threat to all of us. A threat to Muslims today is a threat to Jewish people tomorrow, to Catholics. A threat to Hispanics today is a threat to African Americans tomorrow, to other ethnic groups the next day.
“Hate speech and hate crime are really a threat to freedom,” he continued. “They tell people because of who you are, you don’t have the same rights as everybody else.” It says, “you don’t have the right to be safe in the community.”
DA Jeff Reisig called this a disturbing trend and urged people to come forward so law enforcement can “vigorously investigate and prosecute these acts of hate.”
Jeff Reisig concluded that “the dialogue in the community has gotten pretty caustic,” which is why they have reached out to the community in hopes that, by addressing this hate incident, they can bring the community together to fight against hatred.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
This was the first press conference that I have ever attended in person. I found it very heartening to see so many of our public leaders in the areas of local and regional politics, police, schools and community organizations coming together to stand united against hatred in this very public way. My personal thanks to all who participated.
Tia
Don’t you think that it could be just a provocation to attack Christians and President Elect Donald Trump using today’s political atmosphere after the Hillary Clinton”s unsuccessful and humiliating to her march on the White House This was the anonymous rant. I am not quite sure why you further inflaming this provocation by stating that it was or is the “Treat to Islamic Center ” ? Did you read this letter ?
Who is the threat to Jewish people and Catholics? Christians ? I don’t think so. What a nasty and inflammatory propaganda coming from the mouth of public official. Provenza’s mentor must be the UC Davis Associate Executive Vice Chancellor Rahim Reed
http://occr.ucdavis.edu/Rahim_bio.html
– Martin Niemöller
I recall a rapper singing about killing cops. Did you protest then?
Granted that anytime this type of letter is sent to any person or organization it must be treated as authentic but there’s also a lot of speculation about the possibility that it’s a hoax perpetuated by the Muslim community or someone who’s disgruntled that Trump won the election to either garner sympathy or stir the pot.
You mean like this hoax?”
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/nypd-arrests-man-accused-harassing-muslim-police-officer-43980621
Or how about the other hundreds of “hoaxes” that have been reported – witnessed and even videotaped – around the country?
You can “speculate” anything you like. There is absolutely no motivation for the Islamic community to add some fabricated threat to the list of real threats that have erupted.
“Speculation” is how false narratives are spread. It does not require any evidence, much less preponderance of the evidence. It is as weak as conspiracy thinking and, come on, BP, be serious.
No, more like these hoaxes:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/248313/top-anti-muslim-hate-crime-hoaxes-2014-robert-spencer
Robert Spencer is a well known white-supremacist/neo-nazi/anti-muslim hateful extremist. He spews pure hate propaganda.
Are his examples of hoaxes false?
You’d have to investigate each one he cites, because he is a propagandist, as is the site you linked to. You sure do like to use some pretty outlandish sources.
Greg Brucker
Apparently Robert Spencer writing is not the hate crime and his view is protected by the First Amendment which I believe that you have nothing against as an American and patriot.Right ?
Yes, hate speech has been protected by the Supreme Court. So the rest of us have to call it hate speech when it happens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech#Supreme_Court_case_law
BP –
Someone like him doesn’t have enough credibility to ever be taken seriously, except for the fact that he and those like him (and those that support him) are dangerous people, for they promote fear, hate, and false propaganda meant to hurt others. Plain and simple.
If you want to believe him and promote him, that is your right, and your choice. But you will then be known as someone who supports and promotes the neo-nazi/white supremacist/anti-muslim agenda.
Then there are complicated hoaxes… those who “create” a hoax, then “disbunk it”… a double hoax, if you will…
I am a supporter of the first amendment.
He and you have the right to spew as much ignorant, hateful, anti-semitic, anti-muslim, neo-nazi, white supremacist based lies, propaganda, and fake news as you and he and others want.
And the rest of us have the right to call it what it is.
I wasn’t promoting him, I was using his examples of Muslim hate incidences that turned out to be hoaxes. Instead of attacking the messenger can you refute his examples?
I urge you to stop linking to hate sites. Maybe you should do the research yourself next time.
Yes, you just promoted him by promoting his propaganda.
That you defend him, reinforces that point.
Greg, I just Googled ‘Muslim hate hoaxes’ and his site came up. I can come up with several other examples if you like or maybe you can Google them yourself.
I’m not promoting anything.
Again, BP, yes you were, and still are. Stop playing me and everyone here for stupid.
As well, if you used google, you should inform yourself and read this article.
It is well known that google results can be worked to show certain things more than others. That is currently happening. Please do yourself a service and read this article.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/05/google-must-review-its-search-rankings-because-of-rightwing-manipulation
And then, stop promoting hate.
Here you go Greg, an article from Investor’s Business Daily with many more examples
Do you consider IBD a hate site?
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/muslims-fake-hate-crimes-to-serve-political-agenda/
Are you really going to deny that this type of stuff does occur?
A better question, since you are the one pushing the propaganda, is:
Do you believe that hateful, racist, and race-based attacks of a verbal and violent nature are happening right now to Muslims and others who look different?
Not propaganda, but I see you’re intent to dance around the fact that Muslim hate hoaxes have occured and do exist.
But to answer your question, yes there is hate and it comes in all forms.
That publication is also well known to have a hard-right/pro-corporate/anti-left bias, and has actively promoted false news to push its agenda.
Once again, can you dispute their examples of Muslim hate hoaxes?
BP –
I think you’re missing the point. That website/publication has no credibility based on its history of publishing fake news. To get into a discussion about the validity of that which comes from a location proven to push fake news is a waste of time, nor is it productive.
But if you want to keep promoting publications and web sites that post fake news as reality, please carry on. Your call.
IBD is not a fake website. Nice try but IBD is a valid site. You can’t refute the examples they discuss in the article so you have to resort to trying to discredit the publication.
Are you seriously denying that Muslim hate hoaxes never occur?
It’s amazing, all I and a few others did was point out that we really don’t know yet whether the letter is authentic or a hoax and all Hell breaks loose.
We have no way of knowing for sure unless they catch the person who wrote the letter.
Barack: I was thinking about this very issue when I was writing the article – I think what you are seeing is the opportunity to come down very hard on communication that is unequivocal and unambiguous and set the tone.
Et tu, David?
What? People are scared and they need reassurance that the community has their back. I think this was the right thing to do.
David
People are not scared . I have Pakistani friends . They don’t give a damn about stupid anonymous provocative letters . Muslims are not communists . They are very conservative folks. and no need support of the American left red wingers . Do you know why the Dearborn.Michigan has the highest concentration of Arabs and Muslims in the United States ?Could you do the interview with Muslim community members (regular folks) and ask them what they think about this anonymous letter . Public officials from the City of Davis are doing more harm than good to the Muslim community from Davis with their out of proportion propaganda by pointing finger to unknown evil forces . What the Davis cronies did is not the reassurance of anything but the calculated political game on local level at the expenses of the Muslim community.
I agree with you David and that’s exactly what’s being done by our representatives, law enforcement and the community.
Other than you, who is involved in the “lot of speculation”? Or is this another post creating ‘faux news’? Jerry’s post seems to be of the same ilk…
Trump’s supporters, and Trump himself were pretty good at creating faux news… often disseminated by Fox News… did I accidentally pun? Film at eleven…
I cannot find the link to an article I previous read from a Muslim cleric in another Islamic center in another part of the country and he said that the language in the letter was very indicative that the writer had significant knowledge about Islam and Muslim culture/values.
Sure, that sounds like a typical Trump supporter.
Given this Davis reaction example and the tendency of the lazy, tabloid, propagandized, liberal-biased, mainstream media to take this type of story and run with it… it is EXACTLY the type of thing we would see from someone or some group sympathetic with ISIS and/or Hillary Clinton.
Here is a piece of advise for liberals. If it sounds too good to be true, it likely is not.
Frankly, are you referring to this?
How many Trump supposed alt right wing supporters would use the line ‘your fathers are dogs’ ?
The article I read stated calling someone a dog is common in the Muslim culture.
breitbart news daily? That’s your source?
BP
“How many Trump supposed alt right wing supporters would use the line ‘your fathers are dogs’ ?”
Since it took me all of 30 seconds to locate this expression on Google by simply entering “What are common Muslim insults ?”, I would say that this is not unlikely at all. However,as someone who has a fairly extensive knowledge of Turkish Sunni Muslim culture through marriage, this was the second phrase that came to mind for me, the first being “pig son of a pig” which would be the ultimate insult from Eastern Turkey with “dog” or “son of a dog” being fairly weak by comparison in that region.
I do not think that this phrase can in any way be used as evidence one way or the other to attempt to ascertain the identity or intent of the author.
Obviously I cannot prove that this was not a “fake” letter or that no “fake hate acts” have occurred. However, at this point I would like to invoke Occam’s Razor.
“Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the simpler one is usually better. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is.”
I think that it is clear that the simplest explanation of this letter within the current political client is that it was authored by an individual whose intent was to demonstrate hatred and intimidate Muslims. All other opinions are of course considered even if not agreed with.
Tia
Strongly disagree with your statement :
The author of the letter is not the Google educated person. This letter is most likely provocation to point at the Christians and Trump’s supporters and label them as the oppressors and racists. This letter could even be authored by somebody from the UC Davis . To back up my disagreement with your assumption I would like to bring to your attention one UC Davis Policy .
In February 2011, Katehi, together with UC Davis Associate Vice Chancellor Rahim Reed, implemented an unconstitutional (under both the Federal and California State Constitutions) policy which was incorporated into the “Principles of Community.” This additional “UC Davis Principle of Community” labeled “CHRISTIANS AS THE OPPRESSORS.” After the protest of the Alliance Defense Fund—a Christian legal group the definition of Christian as oppressors was removed from the “Manifesto” entitled “UC Davis Principle of Community.” However, Rahim Read still maintains the unconstitutional UC Davis manifesto entitled “Principles of Community” for $173, 000.00 per year , spreading hate and intolerance in the UC Davis university. Labeling Christians as oppressors was nothing else but Linda Katehi’s and Rahim Read’s ideological invitation for religious cleansing. Rahim Reed is a very well educated person and his only job for $173,000.00 is to maintain and make sure that this UC Davis unconstitutional tool is in motion, is visible, and is inflicting fear in anybody who dares to criticize the UC Davis administration, or point to a misuse of university resources by the evil of corruption . Rahim in Arabic means “Merciful”
How you or anybody could provide the proof that the letter intent was to demonstrate intimidation of Muslim . How do you know that it is not the ISIS or Hamas supporters propaganda?
Your two statements, if put in the context of radicalized conservative bigots, could be equally “true”, if the first was modified to read,
No, that does not compute.
My interest is to save liberal progressives that control the Democrat party from continuing to step in it damaging the brand of Democrat so that we get better candidates to select from and don’t end up with politicians like Donald Trump.
Reactions like this have become like a feel good drug to the left… but like most feel good drugs there are long-term negative consequences from over-use.
Right. VERY right…
Frankly
I know it is not your usual tendency to accept or believe that conservatives should accept any responsibility for the result of the recent election. However, I would like to point out some very simple and straightforward statements for your consideration.
1) Trump was the candidate of the Republican Party
2) The responsibility for the election of Donald Trump lies primarily with those who chose to vote and or support him. It also lies less directly with any individuals who chose not to vote, to vote for a third party candidate, or who chose to write in a candidate other than either Clinton or Trump.
3) Who it does not lie with is any individual who did not support or vote for him and who voted for HRC.
hp
What you think is not true in my post about Rahim Reed and UC Davis Policy which labeled Christians as the oppressors .
http://www.davisenterprise.com/local-news/dunning/once-is-an-error-twice-is-a-pattern/
What I pretty much know is untrue is that I made any comment on that post of yours… I responded not to you… only two conclusions I can come to…
1. You did not parse the brackets of comments right… I’ll be charitable, and will assume that…
2. You are utterly paranoid and delusional…
Can’t think of a third… I looked back… I responded to comments by BP and Frankly… and frankly, did not see any response to your post(s) that I made…
Have a good evening… best…
I quoted the entire letter, perhaps you can tell me which parts showed “the writer had significant knowledge about Islam and Muslim culture/values.”
Also, Reisig is no liberal and he’s the one who called the PC.
Here’s a letter sent to some of the mosques, I don’t know if it’s the same letter as was sent to the Islamic Center.
http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/michigan/files/styles/x_large/public/201612/hate_mail_sent_to_islamic_c.jpg
BP
http://www.jta.org/1963/11/05/archive/five-jews-arrested-for-painting-swastikas-on-israel-consulate
This letter sounds like my two bosses from the UC Davis Medical Center
Anyone (except me) see the irony, or purpose, of this thread and particularly responses coming on the 75th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor?
Am thinking Goebbels… disinformation/propaganda is a powerful tool for those who have “agendas”… and/or prejudices…
As for me, might exercise my second amendment rights, espoused by the president elect, to help deal with threats to individuals/groups …
@ perpetrators of hate, there just might be another “sheriff in town”… maybe not…
Acquainted with Hamza, his wife and his daughter, Hamza would be the almost last person that could be involved in a hoax.
As of now:
Actual fact: The Davis Islamic Center received a letter containing hate speech directed at Muslims.
Totally unsubstantiated speculation: “it’s a hoax perpetuated by the Muslim community or someone who’s disgruntled that Trump won the election to either garner sympathy or stir the pot.”
How about we stick to the facts and not raise the specter of hoaxes unless or until there’s some basis.
I think the problem with this is that we are seeing a HEUGE reaction with droopy face symbolic concern that fears are warranted without actually knowing the facts and the source. This type of reaction is exactly what terrorists leverage. They can foment fear with a simple letter.
Liberals decry the fear of violence done by terrorists because they say that the odds of someone actually getting harmed are minuscule. But here we are all supposed to jump on the fear bandwagon for a simple, and highly suspect, letter.
Do you understand why this type of thing contributes to an overall general damage to the brand of liberal progressivism? It demonstrates a level of cognitive dissonance that is endemic.
Frankly, I don’t post much to you, because I don’t think your posts are worth response, but I want to state here, that you are projecting. Your continued hate against those which you paint with a very wide brush, with no substantiation, only firmly puts you on the side of those who hate, promote hate, and blame large groups of people for things which you fear, rather than looking past the hate, looking for where we agree, not blaming others, and looking inward to better yourself.
Greg – why don’t you just post your opinion and not get personal? I don’t hate but I am continually disgusted with people like you that continue to call people like me the worst possible names simple because I disagree with your views and don’t share your values. I don’t think you realize how bad this makes you look. The only thing positive is that you are in good company.
Let me ask you and Don Shor. What do you believe the probability is that this letter was a hoax or a letter sent by someone opposing Trump or sympathetic to Islamic extremists or Hillary Clinton?
It is hate speech regardless of the motives of those who sent it.
Yes, Frankly, you hate on liberals all the time here. It is obvious and well known.
And at this point, it is time to call out hateful people for what they are: hateful people. If that offends you, maybe you should consider how your years of hate against liberals and those you disagree with offends them.
I don’t hate Greg. That is all in you from your words. I disagree with many ideas, responses and behaviors of liberals and their orthodoxy. I call them out. And I do it in a direct way.
I get a great chuckle from your suggestion that I look inward. You live in a liberal bubble and probably don’t have any conservative friends that you associate with. I know this because otherwise you would be capable of having a civil discussion on this and other issues where we would differ ideologically.
Well I suppose if you set the bar that low… that anyone with any motive can write a childish letter with provocative and nasty language and get it promoted into a media “hate speech” reporting storm.
The problem is that if this is a hoax, the media and left reaction is inaccurate and paints and inaccurate picture of the REAL situation.
This gets to a fundamental truth. The politics of the left have inflated victim-group division for political gain. But, although that strategy worked for a while, as is clear the last six years, this behavior has damaged the Democrat brand.
This gets me thinking that another possible source for this letter was Trump political operatives… people that don’t believe in what they wrote, but knew that the political left and liberal media would jump on it and further anger and alienate the nation’s conservative voter base. Maybe this is part of their political strategy to make sure the Senate election in Louisiana goes to the GOP candidate.
Thanks for proving my point about you, Frankly.
Hey Don… how about doing your job and telling Greg to stick to the topic and stop with his repeated personal attack posts?
[moderator]”how about doing your job” — Ok. Frankly, please stick to the topic and stop the personal attacks.
Someone must have been too close to the truth.
Frankly hit the “report comment” button because he was offended someone pointed out the hypocrisy in his posting.
I doubt the GOP has any worries about that seat, but you never know from the over confidence that the Democrats had about Hillary winning. We know where that went.
But that didn’t stop you and the other conservatives on this site from treating it as a hoax. Do you understand why that type of thing contributes to an overall general damage to the brand of conservatism?
Nobody is treating as a hoax, just raising the possiblility that it is.
Don’t be ridiculous.
“Do you understand why that type of thing contributes to an overall general damage to the brand of conservatism?”
Wrong, it is their trademark. It is their real agenda. Much more media friendly than the old white robes and burning crosses, but conveying the same message.
BP
Until the law enforcement will not find the author than it is a hoax. I don’t believe that law enforcement will waste any financial resourced to look into. The Chief of Police already stated that letter is not a hate crime or threat to Muslim community .
How so Don? Who has stated that it’s unequivocally a hoax? Just bringing up the possibility. Can you say for sure that it isn’t?
The problem BP is that by asking them to even consider it a hoax is taking away a feel-good and validated drug at a time when they need something to make them feel better.
But the problem with this is the risk that it is a hoax and turns out to be proved a hoax… how damn bad they all look for over-reacting.
They have made up a conspiratorial narrative that we are on a slippery slope of facism and that all Trump supporters are just a basket of racist and hate-filled deplorables… and they, the leftists and reactionary media, pop like shaken cans of soda when they see any “evidence” to back that claim.
But it is exactly this type of behavior that has turned off so much of the country to their brand of politics and tabloid reporting. It is divisive.
You and I are conservative. What would we do if there was any attacks against Muslim American in our community? We would come to their defense. We would fight to protect them. Yet because we don’t jump on this left reactionary bandwagon over a stupid suspect letter we are actually called the most hateful names they can conger up.
There is a sickness.
-Frankly, in a post above.
-Frankly, in another post just above.
Are you trying to make a point? What is your point?
That you are as hypocritical as they come.
[moderator] Please avoid direct attacks on other Vanguard participants. Thanks.
edited …[You] lack…anything useful or interesting to bring to the conservation. Why do you blog at all?
[moderator] edited. No name calling.
Wait, I thought you were against calling people names?
Thanks, again, for proving my point about you.
Really? Because you had an opportunity to do just that, but instead it looks like you and BP have dismissed their concerns as a conspiracy while citing known bigot Robert Spencer.
Indeed, there is. Physician, heal thyself.
“all Trump supporters are just a basket of racist and hate-filled deplorables”
Since that describes most of his rhetoric and his choices for cabinet positions, I’ll say , “Right.”
That’s not fair, Biddlin… only true for 97.843% of them… the rest weren’t paying attention…
Hold that thought Biddlin while your Party sinks further and further into national political obsolescence.
It’s still under investigation, we may never know for sure unless they catch the person or persons who wrote it.
I think people feel that without evidence that this is a hoax – the DA’s office has had two weeks to look into this, so if they thought it was a hoax, why call a Presser?
Chamber Fan
Nobody was paying attention to them for long time than the letter became opportunity for show off .
↓
Frankly Hold that thought Biddlin while your Party sinks further and further into national political obsolescence.
Perhaps we’ll start a new nation and, like the Spoonerists say, “Truck Fump!”
You might have the votes to do that in California and New England. Maybe you should start working on a Calexit. plan. Maybe merge with Canada or Mexico.
I have a feeling that in the next decade or two, history is going to demonstrate a demographic bubble of progressive liberalism that started with the baby boomers and ended with their offspring and will will pass through our political system like does a large kidney stone through the urinary tract.
I don’t want the hard-right nor the hard-left to rule this country. But the hard-left got their hands on the levers and switches over the last decade and almost drove the country off a cliff. And in doing so they have given the levers and switches to what MIGHT be the hard-right… although the signs are that the Trump way will be more moderate than are the vitriolic claims of the hard-left smarting from having the levers and switches taken from them.
If the Democrats shed the hard-left control and get back to moderate ideas of governance, then there is hope for the Party and for moderate rule. Otherwise the hard-right will rule.
And the victim-group-baiting-name-calling is a hard-left practice that will also ensure the hard-right will gain and retain power.
Frankly
“ But the hard-left got their hands on the levers and switches over the last decade and almost drove the country off a cliff. “
The hard left never came near the levers of power. For example, Obama never even allowed any one who favored a single party payer universal health care system to participate in the discussions. Obama governed from the center left and HRC would likely have done the same. Bernie and my current favorite Elizabeth Warren, would have represented the farther left which I would have preferred. How far right or left an individual is often depends ( as I just illustrated) on where one themselves is on the spectrum. That includes you as well as me.
” Maybe you should start working on a Calexit.”
We don’t need Mexico or Canada. We will get the signatures and and qualify the measure for the 2018 ballot, calling for a special election, in the Spring of 2019, on independence.
For David and the Moderators:
I hope you understand how much of a double standard it is for you to allow people to hate on other groups of people, promote that hate, defend that hate by calling it what it is not, and promote people that promote that hate, but as soon as someone calls them what they are, hateful hypocrites, that is what gets moderated.
[moderator] Hi Greg, I pulled a bunch of back and forth that included name-calling. I can’t pull one post without removing the replies. The conversation seemed to be deteriorating, so I stopped it. We’d prefer that you focus on issues and not on personalities, as they say. — Don
“but as soon as someone calls them what they are, hateful hypocrites, that is what gets moderated.”
Now you get it! Don and David bend over backwards to protect the ill-willed and benighted. The rest of us are on a short leash.
[moderator] False.
Many of the “rest of us” as you say are the ones posting the hateful, derogatory, name-calling comments.
David Greenwald
Is the Islamic Center in Davis is the Sunni Muslims or Shia Muslims Center ? Do you know ?
Thanks for the response, Don. Where I totally hear you on the basic level of conversation going downhill, I disagree with your creating an equivalency between calling out hate and hateful hypocrisy for what it is (and calling those who are hateful and hypocritical as such), and those who use hate to demean, such as in calling a person unintelligent using derogatory words or using a broad brush to paint a group of people based on one’s ill-informed beliefs.
I fully believe part of the issue on hand is the hypocrisy of the far right who defend and support those hateful individuals, while spewing their own ill-informed hate against liberals, Muslims, different people, etc. Calling a hateful person out as such is not a personal attack. It is calling a cat a cat, a dog a dog, or a hateful hypocrite, a hateful hypocrite.
Part of the reason fake news has been allowed to continue and propagates at the rate it has, is because of this exact false moral equivalency.
[moderator]
Acceptable: That statement seems hypocritical.
Unacceptable: You are a hypocrite.
“Part of the reason fake news has been allowed to continue and propagates at the rate it has, is because of this exact false moral equivalency.”
But in Davis, everyone gets the blue ribbon and all opinions are valued, even the most unprepossessing and unschooled.
Then why not connect with me to adjust my wording?
Straight up censorship seems extreme and hypocritical for a site promoting the first amendment, while allowing those who hate to hate on large groups of people in a personal way all the time here.
[moderator] FYI when the post goes into moderation I am holding it for later action, either to edit/comment on it or trash it. As you’ll see, I’ve now released some with edits and comments.
I am one of the most frequently censored, once with David falsely accusing me of making a racist statement. When asked for an retraction, he was mute, until repeating the libel. I would not count on fairness or truth from him.
Don – Thanks for the explanation and update. I appreciate your openness about the process, regardless of my agreement/disagreement with the actions.
-Greg
Biddlin
You are not a racist . You and Pierce are the two Archie Bunkers on DV
Jerry, LOL….good one
BP
Don Shor is too sensitive . He probably did not watch Archie and his son in law. It was one of my favor TV shows.
One of the great TV shows of all time. One wonders how the writers would address the current racial and ethnic tensions. It’s almost certain that there would be a recurring Muslim character on the show.
I was in high school when that show aired and I remember sitting with my friends at lunch talking over the previous night’s episodes. The show was daring for that time.
Biddlin
Well said
The UC Davis Principles of Community
Biddlin
As one of the speakers at the press conference said yesterday, paraphrased. In Davis we do not show tolerance for our differences, we embrace our differences. For the most part I believe that this is true. A minority will always persist in believing that their way is the only way, but I truly feel that the majority of us are not only accepting but warmly inviting if given a chance.
“Acceptable: That statement seems hypocritical.
Unacceptable: You are a hypocrite.”
This is the first time that Don has won my first Vanguard smile of the day award. I find it specially ironic that the difference between these two statements seems to be exactly the kind of “PC” speech that those on the right seem to loathe, right up until they perceive that something rude is being said about them.
Congratulations Don !
I want to thank our public officials both left and right for taking a stand against this kind of hateful intimidation. It is important that the popularly elected officials who represent this community make it clear that this kind of hate will be opposed.
As for the first amendment, sending anonymous threatening mail that advocates genocide against a religious group is not protected speech. While some here want to argue that such speech is okay, go ahead, the more you do it the worse you look in the eyes of the community in which you choose to live and you will be condemned in the court of public opinion.
It might be useful David, to see if you can get a scan of the actual letter, and post it… the one posted by BP was honestly acknowledged to be a different one…
It looks like the exact text that was received here
Was thinking that perhaps someone here might recognize the handwriting…
And, are you saying it is “exactly” the same as what BP found? 100% of text, same handwriting? Same ‘non-linear’ script? [not ‘staying between the lines’, like one would do on binder paper…]
I’m not looking at the two side-by-side right now, but it looks like a copy of the same letter.
I’ve got to believe that whoever wrote it disguised their writing.
David and BP… thanks for those clarifications… if it just a ‘viral’ generic letter, makes sense where PD discounted any real threat…
hpierce
I do not know if this is an identical copy to the one circulating nationally. But I do know that it looks word for word and line by line identical to one that I had seen prior to my knowledge of this mailing to the Davis mosque which was posted on line as a “hate act” which had gone to a mosque in Southern California.
These letters initially were postmarked out of Santa Clarita.
BP
Case is solved . Life goes on.
Yes, but there appears to be a “twisted” person in Santa Clarita… hope they get help…
hp
I think that by giving so much publicity for such letter is a encouragement for the monkey which wrote this letter to play again the stupid monkey’s game .
Frankly
“I don’t hate Greg. That is all in you from your words.”
Actually, that is not quite accurate. I quote you or your doppelganger on a post from quite a while back. “I didn’t hate Obama before, but I do now.” Your words, not made up by me. Don’t have the computer expertise to search and prove it, but if you are being honest, you will own it. The reason I remember is because it shocked me at the time. I had previously seen you as someone who had strong feelings but could respect the strongly different feelings of others. That was when I saw the side of you that can allow disagreement to turn to hate. In your own words.
Tia
The point is ?
I already owned that and apologized for my one moment where my emotions got the best of my cognitive faculty. In other words, for just that one moment I slipped into doing what liberals do.
Good memory though. Got anything else, or only that?
By the way “hate” resides in the human heart and mind, not in words. Words do not hate. They often do not even accurately convey the truth in how the writer or speaker really feels or thinks. The devil is not going to be easily recognized with red eyes and horns. The devil might very well look and sound just like Hillary Clinton… a person that was proven to have significant hate in her heart and mind even as she played someone else on TV. Thanks to WikiLeaks we know the truth.
Frankly
“You and I are conservative. What would we do if there was any attacks against Muslim American in our community? We would come to their defense. We would fight to protect them.”
From your reactions to what every public official whether on the right or left is interpreting as a “hate act” ( not a hate crime since there was no direct threat ) in the words of Chief Pytel with DA Reisig nodding beside him, I doubt that you actually would come to their defense. From your reactions here, I believe that it would be far more likely that you would rationalize the action as other than hate motivated or attempt to minimize it, or invalidate it as you have done in this case, and as you have consistently done regarding race issues for as long as we both have been posting here.
There you go again Tia somehow knowing what someone would do or how someone would act and you of all people who detests others projecting what you might do.
I’ve got news for you Tia, I too would come to the defense of someone having a hate crime perpetuated against them if I were witness to such an event. Guaranteed. I really don’t care if you believe it or not because I know what’s in my heart.
Well you doubt wrong. You are wrong about an awful lot of things Tia. I would come to help and save anyone in my community that was facing material and real threats. I would not come to pacify them over unfounded fears of words… especially when it is clear that the reaction is political.
I’m sure if you think hard enough you can grasp the demonstrated hypocrisy telling people they are wrong and haters for stating their fear from the risks of Islamists in their midst as there are actual events and evidence that there are more out there plotting the same, but that Muslims are justified in their fears of a juvenile letter that has all the markings of being a hoax.
I really don’t think most Muslims are worried about this. I think liberals, politicians and the media are just milking it for political points and money… and the public servants running frightened of what liberals, the politicians and the media will do to them if the refuse to play the same game… again to score some more political points and money.
Is there every is an attack against any peaceful Muslim in Davis I am 100% committed to come to their defense and demand that the thug that attacked him/her be persecuted to the full extent of the law. Same with anyone else. I don’t categorize people like you do.
Thanks! You gave me my laugh of the day! Funnier than hell!
I assume the joke was intended…
hpierce wrote:
> Thanks! You gave me my laugh of the
> day! Funnier than hell!
I wonder if there has been a day all year when Frankly did not make as least one negative comment about people in the liberal or slow growth category…
What I wrote was both an intended pun, and true. I categorize people but not like Tia.
Frankly
“You are wrong about an awful lot of things Tia.”
This is objectively true, but frequently not about the things that you think.
“ I would come to help and save anyone in my community that was facing material and real threats.”
Perhaps so now that you have clarified what the parameters are for which you would act. However, I have known personally one doctor who was killed in a final domestic violence episode because no one believed that the threat was “real”. I happen to agree with Chief Pytel that this was a “hate act” even if not a “hate crime”. You always seem to be a law and order type interested in personal safety. As a person with a strong interest in prevention rather than punishment after a crime has been committed, I would prefer to demonstrate that in our community there will be no acceptance of, minimization or, nor tolerance for “hate acts” as defined by our police. You can doubt me all you like, but I would trust the word of Chief Pytel over either of our opinions in this matter. This was further strengthened by the fact that DA Reisig and Sheriff Prieto were in complete agreement.
“I really don’t think most Muslims are worried about this.”
And I don’t believe that either of us have the vaguest idea what “most Muslims” think about this. I personally know some who do not seem to be at all worried, and some who are. I haven’t taken a poll and I doubt that you have either.
The rest of that paragraph is certainly consistent with your world view, but predictably enough does not correlate at all with my thoughts or motivations.
Besides words on a blog post, is there any time you would resort to violence to protect someone else? No response necessary (nor expected)… a question for you to reflect on, in your own way, whatever you choose that manner to be…
Tia wrote:
> I doubt that you actually would come to their defense
Sounds like the ESP is a little fuzzy since you just “doubt” that he would come to their defense (when in the past you have “known” what people would do)…
SOD
“Sounds like the ESP is a little fuzzy since you just “doubt” that he would come to their defense (when in the past you have “known” what people would do)…”
You do not seem to understand that there is a difference between expressing doubt based on a person’s words and actions in the past, and stating that you know what someone is thinking, which Frankly has told me repeatedly that he knows what I am thinking and intending better than I do. And I quote, “come on Tia, just admit it”. Tell me you really can’t perceive any difference !
As a person who was actually faced (twice) with a serious physical threat (lethal) to another, independent of the nature (gender, race, ethnicity, religion, etc.), I’d act… but I’d probably not be as kind as Frankly, who said, “… and demand that the thug that attacked him/her be persecuted [sic] (prosecuted?) to the full extent of the law. “… to stop the attack, I’d act in such a way that I’d be the only one prosecuted.
I’d use lethal force, and if, that wasn’t necessary to complete, I’d back off and go for that prosecution thing…
And Frankly believes I’m a flaming liberal, and others would consider me a heartless right wing reactionary… so much for labels…
Don’t doubt, Tia, that many folk, particularly males, don’t put up with bullies… and won’t spend a lot of time “talking to them about it”…
Dad had to threaten to shoot Marines who wanted to have their “fun” (at least torture, possibly more) with Japanese prisoners in his custody, in the Pacific theater in WWII… he admitted to me that he wasn’t 100% sure that he would have shot those Marines (Dad was a Medic, given a rifle for that duty when they should have known he might not be able to hit the proverbial “broad side of a barn”)… am convinced Dad would have pulled the trigger, had not the bullies backed off… the bullies backed off… Dad saved many lives, never took any that he knew of, but was pretty much prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice for himself, and demand the same from bullies.
This incident (back on topic) is caused by one or more bullies. Bullies need to be confronted, and as necessary, eliminated. IMHO
It’s a bit weird that folk are looking more towards motivations toward ‘hoaxes’ rather than focussing on the “bullying”…
hpierce
“Besides words on a blog post, is there any time you would resort to violence to protect someone else? No response necessary (nor expected)… a question for you to reflect on, in your own way, whatever you choose that manner to be…
I believe the “no response is necessary” because you and I have had this conversation previously so you know very well that I have reflected on this issue on a number of occasions. But since you apparently do not recall, I will repeat. I would resort to violence only to respond to an immediate threat to an individual that I believed to be at risk.
And in response to what I perceive, but you may not have intended as snark, I also do not believe that I have ever expressed “violence” or called for it in any way in words on a blog post. If you disagree, I would love to see the quote that leads you to this conclusion.
Acknowledged… without doing a search, believe you have opined that violence should never be an option… respectfully, I don’t agree, but only when the threat is real and imminent.
And no, did not intend to be snarky… did not recall what you say were previous responses to this issue… but it is my belief that folk that would not act, even with lethal force (if necessary), to protect others faced with that [lethal threat], or rape, or serious injury are not fully human…
Apologize if you felt as if you were ‘collateral damage’ when I reacted (probably ‘lashed out’) to one of my “hot buttons” being pushed… was not my intent to single you or anyone else out…
SOD
“I wonder if there has been a day all year when Frankly did not make as least one negative comment about people in the liberal or slow growth category…”
Sure, there have been many days that meet this criteria. These happen to correspond to the days when he does not post at all.
Meow…
hpierce
It may have been catty, but there is much more than a grain of truth also.
Acknowledged…
HA!
At least half of my motivation posting on the VG in the hope of reading something so brilliantly pithy and pointedly funny.
Well done.
Meow, with sarcasm noted… brilliant… well done!
Tia gets the “Alan Miller” (aka, clever comment) award, for the day! Glad to see that Frankly took no offense and appreciates the humor, as well.
Is there any reason to suspect that letters like this are written by anybody but those on the far fringes? I understand the motive to make sure to publicly vilify letters like this, in order to help keep the fringe on the fringe (and not going mainstream); however I see no danger such fringe hate sentiments going mainstream; even if such letters are ignored.
On the contrary, perhaps it is the publicity and consequent notoriety that serves as a major motivating factor for such letter-writers; they get a perverse ‘buzz’ off of it. Also, by over-reacting to such fringe sentiments through intense vilification of such letter-writers; you run the risk of provoking those who have reactionary tendencies to sympathise with the writers of the letter; mainly because many people like to side with the underdog, which in this case might be perceived to be the letter writer, if public vilification of him is very intense. (I have some understanding of reactionary tendencies; because I have such tendencies myself–I do not sympathize with the letter writer; but I understand how it is that some people with reactionary tendencies might tend to do so).
So, what is the best public response to such letters? Keep in mind that different people have different reactive tendencies. Yes humans are crafty critters, it’s difficult to stamp out negative sentiments!
My thoughts exactly.
tribeUSA
“ however I see no danger such fringe hate sentiments going mainstream; even if such letters are ignored.”
I agree that this is a definite conundrum. When is it “just a few bad apples” that should be ignored since there is no wider risk ? When is it important to speak out before festering intolerance and hate become an accepted norm ? What is the “right” amount of attention to warn of unacceptable behavior without inadvertently promoting it ?
I did not see a risk prior to this election cycle and was willing to ignore both very far right and very far left ( yes, I do believe that there is a “left” that will use hate and violence and these tactics from either side are unacceptable). Now however, with our president-elect as a promoter of violence and oppression against those who do not share your beliefs, I believe that I was wrong. I see this as a very real threat. I see this as analogous to the the frog in the pot with the heat being turned up gradually. I do not think that we cannot see and act against what is right in front of us.
Baloney.
BP
Please just check out any of his rallies in which he comments on how similar protestors would have been “carried out on a stretcher”and makes many similar comments, presumably during his mythical time when America was “great”.
Tia
Think about 9/11 ,other events and stretchers.