Submitted by Alan Hirsh
The riot of 1/6/21 to block certifying the election is existential for our county and democracy. If we can’t believe we can hold free and fair elections, its game over.
So there is not a non-partisan “both sides” position on this … to take a “both sides” stance it is to say, contra to courts and thousands of local election officials and even a GOP audit, that you believe the Trump “stop the steal” position has validity.
Remarks from Thursday by Supervisor Don Saylor:
There are days stamped so deeply into our national consciousness that we need only mention them and a flood of emotion and memories are conjured. December 7, 1941, November 22, 1963, September 11, 2001. These days loom far larger than numbers on a calendar page.
Sadly, January 6, 2021, is now one of those dates. This day must live on in history. It is not simply a number on a page or a leaf on a tree.
It was a day when a mass of insurrectionists defiled the altar of our democracy. A phrase I think of often in these times is from the Federalist 
Papers: “A BAD CAUSE SELDOM FAILS TO REVEAL ITSELF.”
They came to a place I walked with my children to share with my children the monuments to the great moments in our nation’s trajectory. I always walk with reverence in that place.
They came with hatchets, clubs, bear spray, tasers, guns, pikes and makeshift weapons. They came with a gallows and a hangman’s noose. Many appeared disorganized, moved by the moment and the mob mentality—though they all had been summoned. But far too many were fully equipped with tactical gear and acted with chilling and deliberate military precision.
People died. Many others at the site were injured. All those present, indeed all the nation and the world, were traumatized by the events of January 6, 2021.
All the while, the occupant of the White House sat watching as those he summoned laid waste to the people’s house. Desecrated it just as he had ripped the institutions of our democracy for four years. He and his sycophants and sponsors watched as the clockworks they set in motion played out to disrupt the ministerial counting of the election he had soundly lost.
A BAD CAUSE SELDOM FAILS TO BETRAY ITSELF.
We remember those images of people scaling the walls of that magnificent monument to our democracy. We remember the windows breaking and we remember the thugs chasing police officers through the halls, ransacking the offices assigned to the representatives of the people. We remember them milling about with blood lust in their eyes amidst the statues of the great figures of our nation’s history. I recall my visits to Statuary Hall, savoring each minute and reflecting on the contributions of so many over the past 245 years and more.
We must remember…
… and we must act.
The Senate must pass the Freedom to Vote Act to make sure we the people have access to elections. We cannot let this day be written into history as just one step along the way to the loss of this great American experiment.
We must refresh the fundamental principle of our founding documents that no person is above the law. We must support and implore the Senate to pass the Protecting our Democracy Act.
And not just for some of us but for all of us. A chief lesson of history is that we don’t learn from the lessons of history. We must implore the Senate to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act to stop the present slipping back to a time when people of color are denied the right to vote by a set of nefarious schemes.
History is not a disconnected series of random events. Each leaf on each branch of the tree is a part of a greater whole.
We do not yet know the full story of January 6, 2021, because we the people are still writing it. Let us remember that day and let us act to make that day only a cautionary memory.
There’s no comparison whatsoever between December 7, 1941, November 22, 1963, September 11, 2001and January 6, 2021. Democrats want to try to make it so for political gains, but it’s all theater.
So did BLM and Antifa when they desecrated many of those monuments and burned an historic church during the riots of 2020.
With the biggest manhunt ever instituted by the FBI as far as I know there was only one pistol found to have been present at the Jan. 6 protest. The only person who was shot and killed by a gun was a female protester by White House security. Some insurrection that was.
And here’s the crux of why the Democrats are pushing the insurrection lie.
Yes, and much of what is being written is fiction.
This was an attempt, furthered by officials around Donald Trump, to block the peaceful transfer of power after a fair and fully certified election. That is a constitutional crisis.
Don Saylor’s comment is accurate.
The behavior of this mob and those around the former president certainly meets the definition of insurrection.
Baseball bats, sprays, shields, a crowbar, fire extinguishers and flagpoles, on my…
Like I say, some insurrection that was. LOL
“An analysis by Real Clear Investigations reveals that the BLM and Antifa related riots across all of America in 2020 caused 1,300 times as much damage as the violence at the U.S. Capitol a year ago.
Yet the attention given to each scenario is widely different – in the opposite direction.”
https://dailyangle.com/articles/blm-riots-caused-1-300-times-as-much-damage-as-jan-6-violence-analysis
insurrection, definition – Bing
Yeah, it meets the definitional criteria for “insurrection”…
The comparisons between the violent protest elsewhere, and disrupting the very nature of government/political process is a false equivalency… like comparing apples to aardvarks… plus, the instigator was clearly the then-President of the United States.
Fits more a coup d’etat attempt, than a ‘protest’, ‘rally’, or ‘demonstration’.
insurrection
noun [ C or U ]
US
/ˌɪn.sɚˈek.ʃən/ UK
/ˌɪn.sərˈek.ʃən/
an organized attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by violence
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/insurrection
No matter how biased one might be it stretches all credulity to believe that the Jan 6 protesters were trying to take control of their country armed with baseball bats, sprays, shields, a crowbar, fire extinguishers and flagpoles. So no, it wasn’t an insurrection.
What were they trying to do, Keith?
They were trying to take over the government and hold onto control and were going to beat back any counter attack with their baseball bats, fire extinguishers and flagpoles.
Does everyone get how stupid that sounds?
But I get it, I’m willing to at least admit that if a leftist group had done the same thing I too would be hollering “insurrection” for political gain and purposes.
They were trying to prevent certification of the election results and prevent the peaceful transfer of power to the elected president. Do you acknowledge that?
Baseball bats, sprays, shields, a crowbar, fire extinguishers and flagpoles, on my…
Like I say, some insurrection that was.
Don’t forget the empty bottles of Viagra those can be used as projectiles
I acknowledge that the term “insurrection”, used by some for political purposes, is a bit of hyperbole… yet you admit you would do the same… so, is it appropriate in both cases, or inappropriate in both? Think.
I prefer the terms “criminal acts, brought on by political fever, and agitation by the President of the United States” (can you really deny that?), or “attempted coup d’etat”… disruption of a legal process to achieve a different result, and retain power… fact is, the former president claims he had “won in a landslide”, that the election “was stolen”… those are flat out lies… even Biden supporters have not claimed “a landslide victory”.
“Does everyone get how stupid that sounds?”
Yes it was stupid of them for rioting in the Capitol and of Trump for sending them. Many have admitted as much at sentencing. Dan Quayle told Mike Pence to get real when asked about Trump’s coup attempt. Still it was a coup attempt and people were injured and died as a result including many police officers. A stupid one but a coup attempt nonetheless.
The biggest, most overlooked thing that gave me confidence was the open letter, signed by all the living former Secretaries of Defense, that came out shortly before the riot. It essentially amounted to a stand down order to the military if they were given orders by the acting SecDef to participate in a coup. Without military participation it is difficult to stage a coup.
1) Why did not Trump, (he was in office 4 years…buck stops here), begin an investigation of supposed Antifa to uncovering a movement and its leaders, did anything as organized an a “militia” existed? I may have missed it but never seen name of any leaders of that group…or more than handful of politicans ever making even more than one comment to stoking them by name or at an event… Not even to call them out by name to “stand down ….but stand by)” as Trump did the Proud Boys.
2) I believe the left were unsupportive of violence and those who you violenced as tactic…and certainly left hate guns unlike right and its leaders proud flourishing th;em. See this very critical article in on of the left’s flag ship publication the New Yorker as indication of this: Antifa: an intimate history: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/an-intimate-history-of-antifa
4) Where is evidence antafa was false flag behind 1/6 as alleged by Yolo county gop.
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3) Is a flag I saw in Woodland is a sign of what’s ahead from even local Trump supporters?
Trump 2024: The Revenge Tour
Clearly this captures a sense by many on right that
a) They are true victims
b) “big lie” that election was stolen is really true….and revenge is best way to frame the solution in the 2024 election contest.
c) Related coorolate to idea the election was stolen is holding a belief in “great replacement theory” of whites American’s with immigrants, And the idea the “great replacement” is a plan by the Democrats (and Soros/) endorse by Fox’s Trucker Carlson and other on the right including ma many GOP leaders.
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I am quite interested in reaction to my points a to c by others, especially those who think progressives are over-wraught re: 1/6/21 riot.
1) Why did not Trump, (he was in office 4 years…buck stops here), begin an investigation of supposed Antifa to uncovering a movement and its leaders, did anything as organized an a “militia” existed? I may have missed it but never seen name of any leaders of that group…or more than handful of politicans ever making even more than one comment to stoking them by name or at an event… Not even to call them out by name to “stand down ….but stand by)” as Trump did the Proud Boys.
2) I believe the left were unsupportive of violence and those who you violenced as tactic…and certainly left hate guns unlike right and its leaders proud flourishing th;em. See this very critical article in on of the left’s flag ship publication the New Yorker as indication of this: Antifa: an intimate history: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/an-intimate-history-of-antifa
4) Where is evidence antafa was false flag behind 1/6 as alleged by Yolo county gop.
====================
3) Is a flag I saw in Woodland is a sign of what’s ahead from even local Trump supporters?
Trump 2024: The Revenge Tour
Clearly this captures a sense by many on right that
a) They are true victims
b) “big lie” that election was stolen is really true….and revenge is best way to frame the solution in the 2024 election contest.
c) Related coorolate to idea the election was stolen is holding a belief in “great replacement theory” of white Americans with immigrants who will be quickly given the vote… And the idea the “great replacement” is a plan by the Democrats (and Soros/) endorse by Fox’s Trucker Carlson and other on the right including ma many GOP leaders.
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I am quite interested in reaction to my points a to c by others, especially those who think progressives are over-wraught re: 1/6/21 riot.
Even Alan Miller?
I don’t know what that means.
Everyone is a victim nowadays. It’s a badge of honor, and perversely a means of power.
Stolen? Doubt it. A little messed up? Probably. No one on either side will ever trust election results again and assume the other side ‘did it’ in a close election? Our future.
Revenge is not the ‘best way to frame the solution’, whatever that means. Sounds more like a Trumpism for humor and political identity.
Huh?
Was there a question there it that?
I don’t know what the question was or what that twisted conspiracy(?) train of thought was . . . so no comment, or all comments . . .
Don’t we celebrate an insurrection every July 4th? 🙂
Complete with fake bombs – in tribute to the originals?
More proof that Jan 6 was not an insurrection:
As you quoted,
Now, let’s cut to the chase… was the break in unlawful and/or criminal? You’ve already conceded it was ‘coordinated’ (aka ‘organized’)… who encouraged it, and did nothing while it was happening, and was watching it on TV?
Was that ‘organized crime’ or not?
QED
What? Were Democrat talking points issued?
From the article:
Kamala Harris:
More likely, he heard her say it, liked it, and incorporated into his remarks.
Yesterday I came across this snippet on real coups from an article by Matt Taibbi where he takes down Dick Cheney:
No one from a country where these things actually happen could mistake 1/6 for “a coup .” In the real version, the mob doesn’t take selfies and blaze doobies after seizing the palace, and the would-be dictator doesn’t spend 187 minutes snacking and watching Fox before tweeting “go home.” Instead, he works the phones nonstop to rally precinct chiefs, generals, and airport officials to the cause, because a coup is a real attempt to seize power. Britannica says the “chief prerequisite for a coup is control of all or part of the armed forces, the police, and other military elements.”
Like I said yesterday successful coups require support from the military and the SecDefs open letter was a pre-emptive strike against that happening.
I think this debate has been a bit misplaced.
Start with the goal here – it was not to militarily overthrow the government, but rather use threats and force and intimidation to convince the congressional leaders to overturn the results of the presidential election.
That’s what they were trying to do.
So now, what do you call that? What do you call overturning the results of a democratic election?
A stupid, failed, keystone cops style coup attempt.
It wasn’t a coup attempt or an insurrection. I can agree with the keystone cop analogy.
You guys keep projecting but I doubt it changes anything because the only people who agree with you are already in your camp.
As I said, it’s all political theater. So much so that Pelosi called for the theatrics of the cast of Hamilton to perform during the Democrat Jan 6 anniversary event of the protest.
The fact that the perpetrators were inept does not negate or change the fact that the attempt was made.
The flimsiest analysis presented here.
A constitutional crisis.
The real constitutional crisis is people losing faith in the integrity of voting procedures. If we were 60-40, it wouldn’t matter, but at 50-50, we all have to believe the system isn’t being f*cked with. This goes for right & left — I was DT saying the election was stolen last time, HC her complaints the time before. With all the politics surrounding this now, I only see this getting worse.
And don’t forget the hanging chads.
I’m sure if you both think really hard, you’ll see a major difference between Al Gore and Hilary Clinton on the one hand, and Donald Trump on the other, with respect to their election outcomes.
How can we? A Republican Florida thingy… Bush won with less than a majority of the popular vote, nation-wide… you forgot to mention the ‘pregnant chads’… you also forgot to mention how the Courts either supported, or declined to weigh in on the controversy there… most with Republican and/or ‘conservative’ justices… Even tho’ Al was gored, HE did not claim the election was ‘stolen’, nor did HE try to foment an “incident” (I’ll cut you a LOT of slack there… undeserved, but there it is) to try to disqualify electors from the electoral college.
Someone else did, with no excuses about ‘hanging chads’… and turned down every time went to Court… in 2020.
In Yolo County, the voting equipment was banned, even though it was a ‘guillotine’ device… no possibility of a ‘hanging chad’… now we have to use ‘magic markers’/pens
I suggest you work in a polling place, learn/watch about the real election world, before you snipe, like you have.
I’m not sure if I’m capable of that.
But if you think really hard you might see a problem with an outgoing administration using a phony dossier paid for by the incoming president’s opponent to get the FBI to spy on him. Talk about a constitutional crisis.
Al Gore, December 2000:
Hilary Clinton, November 2016:
I call what Bush did in 2000 stealing an election. It showed it could be done. Bush 43 paved the way. I do find it laughable that all these Bush people like David Frum and Nicole Wallace and even Dick Cheney are now lamenting the threat to the Republic posed by Trump’s election shenanigans. Where were they back then? Were they rioting at the vote counting office down in Dade County with John Bolton?
I checked. Bolton wasn’t in Dade he was in Tallahassee where he famously said “I’m with the Bush-Cheney team and I’m here to stop the count.” Roger Stone was down in Dade along with Matt Sclapp.
The Republicans have only won the popular vote once since 1992 and that was the one after 9-11. Is it then any wonder why they want to rig the game?
The country looks pretty red to me:
http://theperilousfight.us/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2020_Trump2.jpg
thinking hard . . . yup, nope. Unless you count ones perspective and how right they are sure they are.
They both conceded.
Hilary Clinton:
Hilary Clinton conceded. Trump never has.
Are you asserting that Biden lost in a “landslide” (as the other candidate has oft asserted) of the popular vote in what should have been a ‘fair’ election? If not, je ne comprends pas your point, Keith O….
Happens when you look through rose-colored glasses… given current voting trends in states, and given that electors are disproportionately (based on population) favoring those ‘red’ states (ex.: # of electors from WY/population vs. CA), and Biden still won, your posit is fascinating.
“Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases,” said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. “Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized.”
But as you would say about those entering the country illegally what part of illegal don’t you get? If crimes were committed shouldn’t the perps face justice? You are all about law and order until its by people you are down with. So much for you supporting the cops.
Where have I said that if someone committed a crime they shouldn’t face justice? Quit projecting.
I think where people have a problem is all through the BLM and Antifa summer riots of 2020 the government for the most part stood down to the point where several politicians helped bail out the perps. Take Kamala Harris for example, she supported groups that bailed out criminal rioters. I think the Jan 6 protesters were emboldened by the government’s lack of going after the BLM rioters, thinking they would also get the same treatment. But we know now that Democrats treat conservative protesters much different than they do leftists.
So Keith O… Jan 6 2021 @ the US Capitol was not a riot? And just a justified, righteous action by conservative protesters (after all we know the lefties stole the election from Trump, who otherwise would have won “in a landslide”?) All of whom should be freed (perhaps without bail) and not prosecuted (persecuted, because they are conservative)?
K
“Quit projecting.”
I’m not projecting because to project I would need to be in support of not prosecuting crimes at protests, a position I have never taken, going back as long as I can remember commenting here.
But here is the problem with your whataboutism. Courts look at the facts of each case individually and the facts of the conduct of participants in the riot at the capitol are, in many cases, not trivial. Beating and injuring police, disrupting the electoral count for the President of the United States, threatening the life of the Vice President of the United States and the Speaker of the House of Representatives. These are serious crimes and the Justice Department and the Courts are treating them as such.
You want to complain about other crimes where you feel justice hasn’t been served, whine away all you want, there is a reason Lady Justice is blind, but don’t try to minimize the crimes committed on January 6 by pointing to other injustices. Its a dog that will not hunt.
I’ll reply with what you wrote earlier, it seems to apply here:
That’s all you got?