“After a summer injury, I was unavailable to continue wrestling at the collegiate level,” he said. “Instead, I was able to focus on my studies and join various student organizations on campus, such as the Muslim Student Association, Davis Judo, and the Davis Dogz.”
Mr. Matsui is not even in Davis at the moment, and had an authorized representative collect signatures and turn them in for him. Currently he is in Washington, D.C., finishing off the University of California, Washington Center (UCDC) program as an intern with Congresswoman Anna Eshoo in the 14th Congressional District in California.
He had previously worked for Congressman Mike Honda, CircleVoting.com, and the UC Davis Political Science Department as a research assistant.
“Washington D.C. is a great city, but it is very easy to get homesick for Davis, and I am eager to return,” he told the Vanguard.
He said he is running for the council because of the large student contingent in this community, and he says that “there has not been a student to serve as a council member to ensure that this majority receives fair representation.”
He added, “As I was keeping up to date on local Davis issues out here in D.C., I further noticed that there was not [one] student that had submitted their candidacy for a spot on city council. This truly upset me, especially in the wake of recent events that seemed to alienate the students of Davis and the residents of the community.”
“Picnic Day serves as the pride of Davis. it is a long withstanding tradition that everyone I have met recalls with great enthusiasm. However, there exists a stark contrast between the students’ expectation of Picnic Day festivities versus the family friendly portion of the event,” he said.
“This has caused community and university leaders to question the existence of future Picnic Days; an outcome which I feel should be avoided at all costs. Therefore, in order to bridge the gap between students and the community of Davis I have decided to submit my candidacy for Davis City Council,” he added.
If elected, he said that he would work “to foster a harmonious environment where students and residents alike can enjoy the wonderful fruits Davis has to offer.”
Other issues that he plans to run on are the preservation of open spaces and parks within Davis, securing safe and affordable housing for students, and the promotion of bike safety and accessibility.
He is against the Woodland-Davis water supply project.
“With the increasing cost of tuition for students, the last thing we need to worry about is a spike in our water bills,” he said. “Yes, we always complain that the semi-sweet taste of Davis water is disgusting, but that is what Brita filters are for. Also, preventing this project would allow us to better pass a balanced budget.”
He also said he is in support of the UC Davis Domes.
He called them “an integral part of our campus and community, and while I recognize that it is more of a university matter, any policy that would come across me in restoration of the Domes would have my full support.”
Mr. Matsui successfully turned in his papers on Friday. He becomes the sixth candidate for Davis City Council.
The Vanguard confirmed with the City Clerk’s office that Lucas Frerichs, Brett Lee, and incumbent Sue Greenwald also turned in their paperwork on Friday.
They joined incumbents Stephen Souza and Dan Wolk, who had previously submitted paperwork.
There are six candidates for three seats, including the three incumbents. The Vanguard will have additional information and coverage of the council election in the coming days and weeks.
—David M. Greenwald reporting
[quote]Also, preventing this [surface water] project would allow us to better pass a balanced budget.”[/quote]
Not necessarily, depending on any fines imposed by the state, if the city fails to come into compliance with the new water quality standards. I would strongly suggest, if Mr. Matsui wants to become a viable candidate, that he tune into the Water Advisory Committee meetings, and get himself educated on water issues. Good luck!
Now Brett Lee can be assured he won’t finish in last place.
[i]”… I was able to focus on my studies and join various student organizations on campus, such as [b]the Muslim Student Association[/b] …”[/i]
This is what a conservative website called PJ Media (it was founded by the novelist/screenwriter Roger Simon ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_L._Simon[/url])) says about the Muslim Student Associations ([url]http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-muslim-student-associations-terror-problem/[/url]): [quote]Founded in 1963 at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, and operated as an arm of the Saudi-funded, Muslim Brotherhood-controlled Muslim World League, the MSA is one of the oldest, largest, and most respected Islamic institutions in the country. They have chapters at more than 100 universities and colleges.
But despite its apparent respectability and polished public presentation, the MSA has a dark side.
Since its inception, the MSA has chronically been a vehicle of extremism, hatred, and incitement to violence. Its chapters host a wide variety of extremist speakers and have repeatedly raised funds for Islamic groups that have later been closed by the U.S. government for funding terrorism. For this reason, the MSA was identified in 2004 as one of 27 Islamic charities and groups ([url]http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2004/01/that-list-of-islamist-organizations-under-us[/url]) in the U.S. under investigation by the Senate Finance Committee for terrorist support.
As a result of the long-time institutional extremism, the MSAs have also proved to be a fertile recruiting ground for terrorist organizations, such that a 2007 report on Islamic radicalization published by the New York City Police Department identified the MSA as one of the key “radicalization incubators” for homegrown terrorists (p. 68). This dubious distinction is not without cause.
One of the darkest secrets of the MSA, certainly never advertised by the organization or mentioned in their publications, is a rather lengthy list of top MSA leaders who have been arrested and convicted on a wide array of terrorism charges, ranging from material support of terrorist groups to being actively involved in terrorist plots.
It is important to stress that these are not fringe figures in the MSA organization, but some of its top leaders.
These include an MSA national president who was al-Qaeda’s top financier in the U.S., a chapter president who was one of al-Qaeda’s co-founders, and a former MSA faculty advisor who is currently the terrorist most wanted by the U.S. government. Other MSA leaders have been recently identified in several domestic and international terror plots, and some currently are facing terrorism charges.[/quote]
Rich
I am hoping that you are not suggesting that Mr. Matsui’s candidacy for city council should be judged by membership in a group characterized by this conservative post. If we are going to judge all our candidates this way, would we not have to disqualify all of the Republican candidates because they are members of the same group as is supported by Rush Limbaugh who, not reportedly, but on national radio made repeated misogynistic and hateful statements with no consideration of the truth about a speaker before an unofficial congressional committee ? Or how about we shoot down the candidacy of President Obama because of his close association and membership in the congregation of a preacher of very questionable ideas.
I think this kind of post is not up to your usual standard. Perhaps if you actually heard what Mr. Matsui has to say about his association with this group, and his take on the group’s activity to post as a counter balance to this piece, you might have some credibility. As it is, whether you intended it or not, this appears to be an unjustifiable attack by association on a young man about which we know very little.
Hmmm, a little character assassination, guilt by association, etc. Thanks Rich for really raising the level of debate and teaching a good lesson for those who want to participate in our city’s rich electoral tradition.
Mr Matsui should not have his religious affiliations thrown in his face… there are several contributors to this blog, whose religious affiliation are somewhat easily ascertained, who would abhor others judging them re: their “credentials”, based on religious belief. I prefer a candidate who has a spiritual base than one who does not. Mr Matsui’s Achilles Heel is his apparent (as provided by David) position of ‘college student, right or wrong’… somewhat jingoistic… we need Council reps who are sensitive/willing to represent ALL segments of the community. I’m thinking he will attract students, living on UC owned property (no property tax), who will not live here three years from now, potentially deciding what other residents will have to live with for 20-30 years. Not real supportive of that.
[i]”I am hoping that you are not suggesting that Mr. Matsui’s candidacy for city council should be judged by membership in a group characterized by this conservative post.”[/i]
I think the MSA deserves to be characterized by its horrible history. I think anyone who would join such an organization shows poor judgment at best. If you don’t think PJ Media’s characterization of the MSA history is accurate, then poke holes in it.
[i]”… how about we shoot down the candidacy of President Obama because of his close association and membership in the congregation of a preacher of very questionable ideas.”[/i]
First, I did not shoot down anyone. And second, even Barack Obama had to concede that his racist and anti-Semitic and anti-American preacher was a jerk and Obama quit his church. My take is that Obama belonged to that church like most Sunday politicians–for political benefits and nothing more. And he quit when the benefits were no longer there. I understand how these things work.
[i]”Mr Matsui should not have his religious affiliations thrown in his face …”[/i]
The MSA is not a religious group. It is a political group and one with a very bad history on college campuses.
http://www.muslims.studentorgs.umich.edu/stp.html
I suggest that people investigate and judge for themselves.
I’m thinking that Rifkin would also question anyone who affiliated with a Catholic organization, given the Catholic Church’s persecution of Jews (historically), and apparent silence during the Holocaust.
Take your pick… there are many Christian/Muslim/Jewish student organizations that are basically fraternal, whose religious leaders/adherents have done some terrible/atrocious things. If Mr Rifkin has evidence that Mr Matsui promotes the idea that Iran should have the “bomb” to destroy Israel, Vatican City, Canterbury, etc., let’s get that ‘out there’.
In the meantime, I’m disinclined to support Mr Matsui for his narrow view of the community’s needs (not his affiliations).
[quote]One of the darkest secrets of the MSA, certainly never advertised by the organization or mentioned in their publications, is a rather lengthy list of top MSA leaders who have been arrested and convicted on a wide array of terrorism charges, ranging from material support of terrorist groups to being actively involved in terrorist plots.
It is important to stress that these are not fringe figures in the MSA organization, but some of its top leaders.
These include an [b]MSA national president who was al-Qaeda’s top financier in the U.S.[/b], a chapter president who was one of al-Qaeda’s co-founders, and a former [b]MSA faculty advisor who is currently the terrorist most wanted by the U.S. government[/b]. Other MSA leaders have been recently identified in several domestic and international terror plots, and some currently are facing terrorism charges.[/quote] Please cite sources so that we may judge for ourselves…
The danger of guilt by association should be noted.
First, nothing in Rich’s posts reflects on local activities by MSA and frankly anyone on the UCD campus is joining the UCD group not some national group.
Second, you have not linked any specific local conduct
Third, you have not talked to Mr. Matsui about why he joined the group, the extent of his involvement, etc.
In short, you have engaged in character assassination without talking to the guy and without exploring anything more than a link to a right wing website.
[i]”you have engaged in character assassination …”[/i]
You would only conclude that it is “character assassination” if you think the MSA is a group with a bad history. My take is that anyone who would join a group like the communist party, the John Birch Society or the MSA shows poor judgment. It would be irrelevant to me if ther person merely joined a local chapter of the Birchers or the communists or some other nefarious group.
[i]”Take your pick… there are many Christian/Muslim/Jewish student organizations that are basically fraternal, whose religious leaders/adherents have done some terrible/atrocious things.”[/i]
Name one Jewish student organization which has done atrocious things? I don’t know of any Christian collegitate organizations which have close ties with the terrible acts that MSA is associated with. However, if there is one, then I would suggest joining that kind of a group is not a good thing.
Rifkin… you ask for MY sources, yet appear to be reluctant to cite YOURS.
For another view of the UCD Muslim Student Association, I visited the UCD student association web site to obtain their mission statement which is as follows:
“”The Muslim Student Association at the University of California Davis is a student group united for the sake of God. The mission of the MSA is to create an avenue for Muslim students to meet, exchange ideas, debunk misconceptions, and work to understand and disseminate the true message of Islam as in accordance with the Quran and the life of the Prophet Muhammad. The club is open to members of all religions.” – MSA Board of Directors.
This presents quite a different view of the group than is presented in Rich’s excerpt. I do not pretend to know much about this group, nor do I know anything about the source that Rich has posted other than that he said it is conservative. I cannot help feel that posting such an inflammatory comment when you are aware that a candidate is out of town and less likely be able to present their side of the story effectively is a very cheap shot and not at all worthy of Rich’s frequently thoughtful posts.
Rich
“Name one Jewish student organization which has done atrocious things?”
Well, that would depend upon what you define as atrocious. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that some Jewish student organizations have been supportive of the development of Jewish settlements on disputed land.
This is an act that some might define as atrocious since they might see it as a force based usurpation of the ability to build on disputed territory.
And are those that join zionist college groups (such as the ZOA – which does not appear to have a chapter on UC Davis chapter) showing bad judgment because some people in zionist organizations have committed acts of violence in the past?
Wikipedia says this (among other things) about the MSA: The Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada is also known as MSA National. It is an umbrella organization for all of affiliated chapters at various campuses across the continent. Local chapters are only loosely connected with the parent institution, and often take different names, such as “Islamic Students Association”, or “Muslim Discussion Group”. Not all campus Muslim groups are necessarily affiliated with MSA National.
There is no fixed hierarchy between MSA National and local chapters; as such, the policies and views of the national organization are not necessarily shared by local chapters. The United States and Canada is divided into five zones, three in the US and two in Canada. Each zone has a zonal representative, chosen by the members of the affiliated chapters within that zone. Chapters make up regional councils.
The article goes on to identify significant figures who have belonged to MSA who have been implicated in religious violence against the US – including Anwar al Alaki. Wikipedia lists several hundred chapters across the US and Canada.
Rich, have you ever talked to anyone who belongs to the MSA on campus? Have you ever attended any of their meetings or checked out their description on the UC website like medwoman?
“You would only conclude that it is “character assassination” if you think the MSA is a group with a bad history. My take is that anyone who would join a group like the communist party, the John Birch Society or the MSA shows poor judgment. It would be irrelevant to me if ther person merely joined a local chapter of the Birchers or the communists or some other nefarious group.”
The problem is that I’m not sure that MSA has the same kind of well known history as the other other groups. You would have to establish probably a reasonable person standard that a reasonable person would know that MSA stands for what you have purported and that every affiliated organize operates in teh way that you have characterized and that the individual in this case joined the group knowing that this was the case.
Can you produce any evidence that the local MSA has done anything that you have posted? If you can’t, I’m pulling this whole thing down.
David,
What do you mean by “pulling this whole thing down” ? If you mean that you are making a statement about the inappropriateness of the post, I am in full agreement. If you mean you are taking down the post, I would argue that it is too late for that. It has already been posted and read probably by quite a number of people and, as a candidate, Mr. Matsui has the right to see what was posted about him, in what context and given the opportunity to respond.
You’re probably right medwoman.
I am much more interested in the fact that he is in an Ultimate Frisbee club. Now [i]that[/i] is relevant to his candidacy.
hpierce–
Individuals who live on University land, such as West Village, Segundo, Tercero, Primero Grove, and the Colleges at La Rue, are not in city limits and therefore do not get to vote in city elections. Hence the push by student advocates in past years for annexation. But most students attend the university for five years, and some, like myself, choose to stay here in Davis beyond graduation because we appreciate the town and want to continue residing here.
I was curious what a google search of the Davis MSA might show.
It led me to think that reasonable people might be skeptical of the MSA.
It does not appear to be a mainstream or moderate muslim group.
See for example this Weekly Standard article from 2003 which raises some serious questions about the Davis branch of this group.
[url]http://www.hvk.org/articles/0403/4.html[/url]
Reasonable people might be skeptical of Stephen Schwartz, the author of your piece, J.R.: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Suleyman_Schwartz[/url]
I am rather surprised by these reactions to a UC Davis student who has declared as a long-shot candidate for city council. They seem very out of proportion.
I came to respect you for your research and opinions supported by them, Rich. The is the second example that surprises me and makes me wonder what’s come over you.
Your nasty characterization of Luke and David, based on a couple conversations with city staffers, seemed odd without any effort to interview them. Now, this.
How does this approach differ from McCarthy’s? Lots of decent folk joined the Communist Party in the U.S. and, as we looked back, we were a little embarrassed for the way we painted them for their association. Did you consider talking to Abe Matsui before you wrote these things?
I’m disappointed.
[quote]”If you can’t, I’m pulling this whole thing down.”[/quote]Geez, David, what have we come to? First the smears, then an attack on free speech? Nothing like a little unthinking religious bigotry to spin us into a tizzy.
I think free speech ends when it’s a smear campaign for no good reason, but as Medwoman pointed out, the cat is out of the bag so it serves no purpose. I wish I would have been on sooner.
I think free speech ends when it’s a smear campaign for no good reason, but as Medwoman pointed out, the cat is out of the bag so it serves no purpose. I wish I would have been on sooner.
sorry, but this is where liberals set aside one set of rules for themselves, and another set of rules for everyone else. The vanguard tried to launch a very similar smear against sarah palin, denied it, claimed it was “taken out of context” when confronted (which it clearly was not taken out of context) and then throws bs out about “telling the truth” …. now when one of their own faces a similar smear, it isn’t fair…. only this one appears to have some basis in fact… Rifkin sruck too close to an inconvenient truth….
not to mention repeated Judicial watch smear assaults against Jeff Reisig.
I think free speech ends when it’s a smear campaign for no good reason, but as Medwoman pointed out, the cat is out of the bag so it serves no purpose. I wish I would have been on sooner.
sorry, but this is where liberals set aside one set of rules for themselves, and another set of rules for everyone else. The vanguard tried to launch a very similar smear against sarah palin, denied it, claimed it was “taken out of context” when confronted (which it clearly was not taken out of context) and then throws bs out about “telling the truth” …. now when one of their own faces a similar smear, it isn’t fair…. only this one appears to have some basis in fact… Rifkin sruck too close to an inconvenient truth….
not to mention repeated Judicial watch smear assaults against Jeff Reisig.
Octane: I have been reading your repeated attempts to goad David into some engagement on this. You have cited this a few times, “not to mention repeated Judicial watch smear assaults against Jeff Reisig.” I was wondering if you could specifically quote a few such “smear assaults” against Jeff Reisig. And after doing so, please also explain how these “smear assaults,” as you put it, are parallel to the smear assault against Abe based on membership to a group like the Muslim Student Association without much context as to how they operate at UCD or what Abe’s personal views are on the matter. Thanks.
“sorry, but this is where liberals set aside one set of rules for themselves, and another set of rules for everyone else. The vanguard tried to launch a very similar smear against sarah palin”
Liberas have no monopoly on attempts to limit speech or smear tactics. Recent example from the other side of the political spectrum.. Daryl Issa doesn’t allow a balanced presentation of the pros and cons of contraceptive pills, even to point out their non contraceptive benefits. This is closely followed by a viscous smear campaign against Sandra Fuke over a three day period by Rush Limbaugh calling her names that I am sure most of us would object strongly to if applied to ourself, a wife, mother or daughter.
What I would encourage is that we have a low tolerance for these kinds of tactics and call them out when seen regardless of the political persuasion of the author. One does not need to smear others to advance ones own perspective.
91Octane
“Rifkin sruck too close to an inconvenient truth…. “
I would like to see your evidence, not your opinion, that Rich’s limited excerpt from, in his own words a conservative source, has anything at all to do with the philosophy or world view of Mr. Matsui.
Until someone has some factual information about Mr. Matsui, and until Mr. Matsui has a fair opportunity to respond to negative innuendo, I would suggest people holding back on their completely uninformed comments.
“What I would encourage is that we have a low tolerance for these kinds of tactics and call them out when seen regardless of the political persuasion of the author.”
LOL, even though you would encourage fairness I didn’t see any liberals calling out Bill Maher when he called Sarah Palin a c*%t (he has never apologized) or when Ed Schultz called Laura Ingraham a wh#*e. In fact, Obama is still taking a one million dollar donation from Maher. But in contrast I did hear many conservative pundits say that Rush Limbaugh went too far for his comment which by the way he has apologized for.
rusty49
“But in contrast, I did hear many conservative pundits say that Rush Limbaugh went to far….”
And which major candidate did you hear do the same ?
Did Obama call out Maher or Schultz for their comments? Did he call Ingraham or Palin? The liberals have a double standard when it comes to fairness.
[quote]In [b]fact[/b], Obama [b]is still taking[/b] a one million dollar donation from Maher.[/quote]Actually many news sources say that this is an incorrect statement. The donation was made to a “super-pac” (whether those should exist is a question in my mind). By the laws re: super-pacs, Mr Obama can neither accept nor reject the money (again, questionable policy, but it’s the law).
Has Obama denounced the Maher money donated to his super pac? All too convenient if you ask me.
Rusty49
This looks exactly equal to me. I am unaware of Obama having called out these individuals. I am also aware that Romney, Santorum, and Gingrich have chosen not to disavow Rush’s comments in any meaningful way. Since my comment was that there is no monopoly of this kind of behavior, I fail to see what the dispute is here. Perhaps you missed my comment that I feel that these tactics are inappropriate for either side ?
[quote]Has Obama denounced the Maher money donated to his super pac? All too convenient if you ask me. [/quote]Practically, it would do no good. How about the Republican super-pacs who have received money from KKK sympathizers?
“I think free speech ends when it’s a smear campaign for no good reason, but as Medwoman pointed out, the cat is out of the bag so it serves no purpose. I wish I would have been on sooner.”
Any sentence that begins with the words, “I think free speech ends when…,” is headed down a bad road. I’m glad you weren’t able to get on this earlier because I think you’ll come to your senses after a little more reflection in spite of how disgusting the conversation has become.
Interesting that someone sees a parallel between the way Rich presents his case against Abe Matsui and the manner you carry on character assignation against the district attorney. I disagree. His is a one-shot deal; yours is constant and unrelenting–even if both suggest connections with little attempt to prove them.
JustSaying
“Interesting that someone sees a parallel between the way Rich presents his case against Abe Matsui and the manner you carry on character assignation against the district attorney. I disagree. His is a one-shot deal; yours is constant and unrelenting–even if both suggest connections with little attempt to prove them”
I see another difference between Rich’s post regarding Abe Matsui and David’s posts regarding the DA.
Richs’ post implied that there was some association between Mr.Matsui and the nefarious activities of the national group without any evidence that except for a very loose name association that there is any relationship between the two. David’s posts, which certainly could be seen as constant and unrelenting, are always directly related to actions taken by the DA himself, or actions under his control as a supervisor.
Richs comments struck too close to an inconvenient truth, and that inconvenient truth struck too close to home.
91 Octane
Again, I would request evidence, not opinion, for this assertion.
I’ll go further than medwoman – what is the inconvenient truth? You think Matsui is an Islamist? You think that the kids who are part of that organization at UC Davis? Is there any evidence at all to suggest that anyone locally has been part of those activities or hold their views? Because if not, then this is guilt by association and nothing more. You want to compare this to my coverage of the DA? At least my coverage holds individuals accountable for what they have done rather than some kind of guilt by association.
“I see another difference between Rich’s post regarding Abe Matsui and David’s posts regarding the DA. Rich’s post implied that there was some association between Mr.Matsui and the nefarious activities of the national group without any evidence that except for a very loose name association that there is any relationship between the two. David’s posts, which certainly could be seen as constant and unrelenting, are always directly related to actions taken by the DA himself, or actions under his control as a supervisor.”
I see your point, medwoman. Still, David doesn’t prove that his linking the district attorney to various actions (like following current laws that David don’t like) means any morething than Rich proves Mr. Matsui’s association does. (David claims bad character at work; Rich goes as far as bad judgement and leaves it to readers to close the loop at which he’s hinting.)
I’m not fond at either approach and can see how someone could have come up with the connection between the two: the character assignation technique.
” means any morething”
means anything more…
I guess this thread is too far gone any way. Can you show me recent evidence where I have linked the DA to actions? I have argued that he should not have tried Topete as a DP case and that it should have been moved to another county, but I have argued that based on costs and the fact that Topete would never be executed. You might disagree with that view, but how is that comparable to what Rich did?
An aside (but I hope not off topic)–I spent much of yesterday driving and listened to an almost unbearable amount of left and right talk radio. It astounds me how the talking points get rehashed on various shows and then appear in Vanguard discussions like this one.
Why would you do that to yourself? I suggest ipods, music, podcasts, books on tape.
David, you don’t need much more reminding about my views on how you’ve tried to make DA a bad guy using his lawful actions enforcing existing laws and I’ve tried to stop being so reactive about it. The Topete and Moses cases are just a couple examples.
Everytime you write about cash for convictions or gang enhancements or use of confessions in trials to discredit the DA and his motives, I’m left shaking my head. Anytime you see Elaine jump in early, you probably have an example of a story I find distressing for its unjustified smear on law enforcement or our judicial system.
I’ll just bet ($10,000?) Rich finds your reaction to his comments on this matter just as mystifying as you find mine on “Judicial Whatever” coverage.
“Why would you do that to yourself? I suggest ipods, music, podcasts, books on tape.”
Thank you, good ideas. I just got caught up listening, even though it can get painful after awhile. You know how I am sometimes.
You’re entitled to your view but I don’t see the parallel.
What Rich did on this thread is innuendo. Let me give another example. Some of the current candidates for council are members of the Davis Chamber of Commerce. I can find blog links from liberal sources that show that the CEO of the US Chamber of Commerce is corrupt, and that the US Chamber of Commerce money-laundered funds for campaigns from corporations.
Here ya go, for one example: [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rebecca-abrahams/document-hold-filed-again_b_675463.html[/url]
So clearly, as one example, Lucas Frerichs is supportive of corruption and money-laundering. Or, at least, of very bad judgment by joining a group known to support such venal activities. Right?
The source Rich cited is no better than HuffPo, IMO. And we have nothing to link Davis Chamber to that corruption. Nor do we have any reason to believe Lucas supports such things. But why not just throw it out there, with all that it implies? That is innuendo.
(ps — sorry, Lucas, you were just the first one I found who’s a member of the local Chamber)
Had I caught this before much discussion ensued, I would definitely have removed it. But like David, I agree with medwoman that it had gone too far by the time I saw it,
I would like to offer another example of how innuendo might be used to the detriment of a candidate, this time on the national level.
“The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology (ACOG) is arguably one of the most powerful and authoritative pro-abortion forces out there.” This quote from American Catholic Weekly.
Using the standard that Rich put forward, and that Octane is stating struck too close to an inconvenient truth, one could assert the following:
Ron Paul is an obstetrician gynecologist. Many people believe that obstetrician/gynecologists are committing murder when they perform abortion. Those who consider it murder would almost certainly consider it an atrocity.
Therefore without having the vaguest idea whether Dr. Paul has ever performed an abortion, or even what his personal views are with regard to abortion, can one conclude that he “at least” has poor judgement for joining a group that performs such procedures ?
“You’re entitled to your view but I don’t see the parallel.”
I know, David, and you probably never will. That’s the reason I gave up trying to help you see the light.
“What Rich did on this thread is innuendo….Had I caught this before much discussion ensued, I would definitely have removed it. But like David, I agree with medwoman that it had gone too far by the time I saw it.”
Innuendo, Don? My, oh my. The Vanguard trades on innuendo, so the crime here obviously is the TYPE of innuendo that showed up this time around. I hope you’ll come up with some standards for how you acknowledge the changes that are made–whether simple corrections or when you “think free speech ends….”–before you start pulling down innuendo, even offensive innuendo. (This is a third request.)
I understand why you and David dislike what Rich did in criticizing the Muslim Student Assn. and Abe Matsui’s decision to join the organization. I don’t see how you’ll accomplish anything positive by turning the Vanguard into the blog that censors conversation you decide oversteps your current bounds of taste. In fact, one could even decide this distasteful exchange provided some value to those who are observing it.
[i]”I hope you’ll come up with some standards for how you acknowledge the changes that are made…(This is a third request.)”[/i]
I have. If you have questions about that, you are welcome to contact me at donshor@gmail.com. One of the standards is that I don’t discuss them on the blog.
I hate to break the news to everyone, but the UC Davis Muslim student’s assocation, along with Students for Justice in Palestine, co-sponsored a speaking engagement by Ward Churchill, and anyone who is in the least familiar with his garbage knows he is no stranger to extreme radicalism…
Churchill became famous for pretty much saying the 9-11 victims deserved what they got…
see this link: http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/10/31/18457386.php
and this is very much in keeping with the quoted paragraphs rich put out….
If you even look at the title of his engagement, which itself sounds radical and provocative.
And someone who is saying he 9-11 victims deserved what they got sounds like it is coming right out of the mouth of osama bin laden to me.
A speech sponsored by an organization of which Mr. Matsui is a card-carrying member.
[quote]I’ll go further than medwoman – what is the inconvenient truth? You think Matsui is an Islamist? You think that the kids who are part of that organization at UC Davis? Is there any evidence at all to suggest that anyone locally has been part of those activities or hold their views? Because if not, then this is guilt by association and nothing more. You want to compare this to my coverage of the DA? At least my coverage holds individuals accountable for what they have done rather than some kind of guilt by association.[/quote]
I’m just curious – would you have a problem if any candidate were a member of a Ku Klux Klan group?
“I’m just curious – would you have a problem if any candidate were a member of a Ku Klux Klan group?”
You believe that the KKK and MSA are equivalents? Don’t think you it’s possible that a few more people would object to the KKK, that they are well known for their group goals, whereas if you had asked me last week, I would not have known any of what has been reported on this thread about the MSA and I think most people are in my boat on that. Now if you had said he was a Crip, then I think you would have a better argument.
Wikipedia says a moron is an adult with a mental age of between 8 and 12. What is an adult with a political outlook that matches with someone between 8 and 12 who thinks a Britta filter is the answer to our water supply and quality problems? Just asking…
I started a new discussion in the bulletin board with a new article that paints a different view of MSA – link ([url]https://davisvanguard.org/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=2&id=533&Itemid=192#533[/url])