By Tia Will
Since voters elected Donald J. Trump president on Tuesday, outbursts of vitriol — verbal and physical — have been widely reported in the news and on social media. Civil rights groups say their inboxes and call centers are lighting up with reports of attacks.”
I think it is important to note at the onset, that these accusations of wrong doing are coming from both sides. There are accounts such as my daughter’s detailed in a former post and there are accounts of students who supported Trump being physically assaulted as “Mexican Haters”. Any one who is willing to pretend that these kinds of actions are unique to one side or the other is simply not being accurate. We are seeing reports of such events on the local and national levels including right here in Davis.
But we are now seeing something that I have never seen before in my 50 + years of following our national politics. For the first time ever, it is our president elect, who can easily be seen on tape exhorting exactly these kinds of behaviors. Now, true, he was only exhorting them from his supporters, but did he honestly believe that susceptible individuals full of hate on both sides would not head his call ? I doubt that this was deliberate. But then I doubt that he thinks through the consequences of his actions beyond what meets his immediate personal gain in the moment.
Also as quoted from the NYT:
“While all sides of the political spectrum have reported problems, Andrew Anglin, a vocal Trump supporter and a leader of the alt-right movement, called explicitly for intimidation of “brown people” on his neo-Nazi website, The Daily Stormer.
“I am of course against any violence against these people,” he wrote. “However, I do think you should yell at them. We want them to feel that everything around them is against them. And we want them to be afraid.”
Or as another example, blatantly race based fliers are reportedly turning up on a number of college campuses.
It would typically be the role of our political leaders to disavow these kinds of statements as John McCain so clearly did when a woman at a town hall meeting asserted that then nominee Obama was a Muslin, and to provide the accurate information. Now, we have elected a new president who made spreading such lies as birtherism and that President Obama and Secretary Clinton were the “founders of ISIS “a hallmark of his political assent. Do we really believe that our president elect does not embrace hate and anger, especially that which is racist, religiously based, or misogynistic when he is on tape admitting to and promoting all three? Do we really believe that his intention is to be a president for all the people, when he has placed in a position of great power an individual, Steven Bannon, who clearly is sympathetic to racist, misogynistic and anti-semiotic points of view even if he cannot be demonstrated to have said so in his own words, by his choices for publication ?
Now in fairness, our president elect has made one plea to his followers to stop the attacks on minorities. One plea, as opposed to months and months of verbally fanning the flames of resentment, fear and anger. I wonder which is likely to have more impact on those inclined to act out of hatred ?
We will indeed reap what we have sown and the little sprouts of hatred are already proliferating on both sides of the political spectrum. This is what a minority of voters , but enough to win the Electoral College apparently wanted or at least were willing to dismiss. But I ask again, is this really what we want for our country ?
Look around you Tia, be fair, the vast majority of the hate and violence is coming from the left.
That is not provable, and based on evidence reported is probably false.
I’ve posted a video of children being beaten at school for supporting Trump and a video of a man being beaten in Chicago because he voted for Trump. The Okeefe video proved that the Democrats were hiring instigators to cause trouble at Trump rallies. In the aftermath of the election just look at the protests in many of our cities where fires, vandalism and hate were on display from the left. These are all proven and not just hearsay. You don’t see anything coming from the right that compares to the hate and violence we now see coming from left.
BP
I would also like to point out that our president elect apparently did not need to hire anyone to “cause trouble” at his rallies since his supporters were doing it for him, at his urging from the stage.
“These are all proven and not just hearsay.”
As were all of the rallies in which the president elect exhorted his followers to violent actions.
You posted a video, that is not data. That is one example or anecdote.
Once again, there’s very few incidents where Trump supporters caused problems at the rallies but a multitude of incidents where the hatred was on full display from the left as Trump supporters were entering and leaving the rallies. What you’re doing is taking a few isolated incidents and trying to compare them as equal to the multitude of hate coming from the left. The comparisons aren’t even close, the scale tips far to the left.
The issue isn’t incidents where Trump supporters caused problems at rallies, its the numerous documented incidents around the country at hate directed at Muslims, Latinos, Gays, perhaps others – shall we start listing those?
Here’s an example:
Another example, more locally: http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/11/16/roseville-high-student-accused-of-swastika-graffiti/
David posted:
> I’m tired of seeing a (sic) Ape in heels
I bet if David and I had an hour to find people on the web calling Michelle Obama (who lived in the white house for 8 years) an “ape” and former president GW Bush (who also lived in the white house for 8 years) a “monkey” I would find at least 10 times (maybe even 100x) more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qVS4hUkiyk
I think that most people will agree with me that more people are upset that Trump won than Obama winning (aka less people just saying “my candidate lost no big deal) and I’m guessing that there at least 10x (maybe even 100x) more people acting out in a negative way toward Trump supporters.
I do not believe that that is true. You’re ignoring the huge amount of hate incidents against Muslims, gays, and Latinos.
David, Do you have some model for the ideal pluralistic society you would like to see?
I don’t
Barak
Tia is doing her job.
BP
With respect, I believe that we frequent different sources. As for “being fair” remember that it was you who piled on when Jerry said that the story I related about my daughter’s class was made up. If you cannot even recognize truth when you read it, how can you tell me to “be fair” ? If you are always going to believe that “your side” are the “good guys” and opponents are the “bad guys” of course it isn’t going to look “fair” to you. The president elect also said “It’s unfair” about protests of his election. But what looks “fair” through this lens of “them vs us”x frequently bears no correspondence to reality.
Pleeeaaasssse…. the point is NOT to keep score but rather to see the entire big picture and appreciate the various emotions on both sides..certainly fear is consuming some of us with loved ones in minority groups who feel threatened but also I believe the emotions of the Trump supporters, their feelings that led to their support, are still there.
How are we going to get along in this new world?
We are not going to get along. The kind of coddling of bigots that is so often advocated and illustrated by well meaning types like David and Tia has made the serpents bold. When you will not call someone hateful for fear of offending them, you are endorsing hate. The Trump supporters have called the tune, and you can let them let them call the steps or you can trip them at every opportunity and spoil their little cotillion. I choose to do the latter. I believe it is every real patriot’s duty to obstruct all efforts by the Trump supporters to destroy democracy and justice.
[moderator] edited.
“How are we going to get along in this new world?” Probably the way my children do it, fight until they are too tired or bored.
Speaking only for myself I am done with being accused of “white privilege” or being “cisgendered”.
Why do you consider “white privilege” to be a negative?
I think what quielo is saying is he’s tired of having that term thrown around.
As a fellow white person, I think it is a real thing. My underlings have asked me to speak out because they are fearful of the consequences of them doing so.
“Why do you consider “white privilege” to be a negative?” Because of the way it is used. As if I have to apologize for my ethnic background. Taller guys get more girls but I have not noticed them making amends for their “Tall Privilege” by stooping all the time to make me feel better.
The same with “cisgendered” which is a term made up by the transgendered community which is also used to define me as “the other” somewhat along the lines of “breeder” mentioned on this site a few days ago.
CF we will have to disagree as I don’t like to be described as an “underling” either even if I do have an “overlord”.
And they say liberals are PC
The problem with liberals is they’re only PC towards their chosen protected classes. Everyone else is fair game.
I don’t know why (maybe it was color of the paint) but this story reminded me a lot of this one:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/lesbian-couple-charged-with-staging-hate-crime/
And fits the “too perfect” rule (the misspelled word will get at least 1,000 more Facebook posts) found in so many of these:
http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/media/348
I’ve read a lot of articles from a variety of different sources since the election. It really depends on how you judge a hate incident. Most of “the hate” that BP is seeing is coming in these protests. Most of the concern that the left is expressing are coming in these one-on-one incidents. I think Trump has lit a fuse that he will have trouble putting out and these protests are a natural and foreseeable consequence of his over-heated rhetoric.
So was his being elected President.
Democrats got thrashed this election, not just on a national level but Republicans now control more state legislative chambers than ever before. The Democrtas need to look inward because they’re getting rejected at almost every level. The current protests just feed into their demise even further. Now they’re talking of keeping Nancy Pelosi as House minority leader. Please do, that’s great if you’re a Republican. They’re also talking of making hardcore leftist Keith Ellison as DNC chair. Once again, please, please go for it.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/after-winning-7-more-seats-gop-dominance-state-legislatures-all
Ellison is also an elected official which is also a problem given the scale of the task.
Barak
The Dems party is not the party which was 30 years ago. Today Dems party is a sanctuary for millions of communists, anarchists and left wing globalists who lost the election.Their march to take over country and have absolute power by cratering welfare state was interrupted. It would not happen with Clinton’s victory but it was the next step for their agenda to create the United States of Bolsheviks. This why we have anarchy and turmoil instigated not by Democrats but by the communists who are hiding in Democratic party.. Most Americans don’t know this because they never lived in communist political system .
They said the same thing 30 years ago. They said the same thing forty years ago. Heck they said the same thing in 1968, and that was almost 50 years ago. The truth is that the Republican party is the one that has changed. When I turned of age, I felt at home as a Republican. I voted that way based on tax issues, but the Republicans have been overrun with anti-intellectual, religious fundamentalist, right wing elements. There is no place for me in that party.
Chamber Fan wrote:
> The truth is that the Republican party is the one that has changed.
While it is true that the Republican party has changed, it is not the only “one” that has changed since the Democrats have also changed (most Dems including Clinton and Obama didn’t have the guts to admit they were in favor of gay marriage just 8 years ago)…
If by trashed you mean got more than a 1 million votes more for the president and gained seats in both houses… objection is to the adjective “trashed” not wanting to debate electoral college.
Chamber Fan
I prefer to have right wing elements who promotes business, lower taxes , Made in America products , plenty of job , plenty of food and Merry Christmas than vision of half of country population on food stamps and welfare . Don’t take wrong I am not religious zealot or religious fundamentalist. Nothing wrong to be a Democrat but to be communist and label itself as a democrat is deceptive and is out of question for me . Democrats must represents the Middle Class instead of the communist agenda where everybody are equal but one is more equal that other one .
With all due respect, and there isn’t any, this comment discussion is base and childish.
Really people? “Your side is more hateful and has more hateful incidents than mine”, “Your side has more fake incidents than our side”, “No we don’t!” “Yes you do!”.
The Vanguard forum as a discussion on national politics for the next eight years, and this is the level of discussion we’re going to get? No thanks! Do you all, both right and left diggers in, not see that you are the problem? All of you, who continue to dig in and blame the other side.
If you have not seen this six-minute video of Brit “Jonathan Pie” commenting on the election results, it is gold. This is why Donald Trump is our President, and if this doesn’t sink in as a large hunk of truth to your ear, I pity the fool, and the country, for we are doomed.
The link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
Alan
With all due to respect where you placing yourself or what is your position in this post election turmoil ?
And with SODA’s comment from 7:15 am and Alan Miller’s comment from 2:10, we seem to have come full circle back to my initial point. I tried to make it very clear that in my opinion the lack of civility is not limited to one side or the other, but was unleashed by the campaign strategy of our president elect. The point for me is not to engage in a “tit for tat” argument, but to recognize a phenomena that I do not believe that any of us would maintain is healthy for our country.
Tia
Trump made a perfect move by unleashing what we see today. All radical elements, anarchists , bigots,fascists, communists, racists, confused and misled kids in schools and other political deviants will vent their frustration and anger which they accumulated over many years . Thereafter Trump will assume his duty in January 2017 after pressurized by the Obama’s administration bubble will burst and disappear. This is what good politicians do.
I don’t know what that means, but I think I agree with it . . .
Jerry–I think I agree also! These seething tensions that are being, at least in part, released were built up over the last few years of the Obama administration; particularly with the resurrection of identity politics; unleashed as the divide & conquer strategy of the elites as they gain a larger and larger share of the nations wealth (still actively being consolidated by a smaller and smaller number of people).
It’s true that some right-wing bigotry is being released along with the left-wing hatred and bigotry–seems to me Obama now and Trump (in the beginning of his term), thru the Attorney Generals office, should make sure any such violent or destructive politically motivated crimes (from both sides) are punished even-handedly like any other violent and destructive crime–much like there was a surge in some black-on-white hate crimes inspired by BLM, and cops murdered by those inspired by the national anti-cop rhetoric; both these surges abated after a few months; my best guess is that the emboldening of right-wing bigotry crimes by the election of Trump and tantrums of left-wing bigotry crimes as a reaction to the election and emboldening by the press and politicos, will subside within a few months of Trump stepping into office (though doubtless the MSM and some politicos will continue to try to whup up some left-wing bigotry; however the MSM continues to lose credibility with most of the population at a rapid rate). Yes, Trump made some dumb and inflammatory comments during the campaign; but he’s a smart guy and has the maturity to be more responsible (and careful) with his rhetoric now that he has won the election–you shouldn’t have any need to huddle in safe spaces from Nov. 9 forward when Trump makes a public statement or speech.
tribeUSA
Did you watch the Donald Trump with Harvey Levin ? Interesting interview . Trump said some weird stuff in primary .He labeled his opponents with funny names in primary .In the primary he was not the Trump but he was the “Tramposo ” and actor . His well programmed behavior mislead republicans and democrats so badly that everybody naively ignored him and treated him as damn , jerk and out of league. When democrats and republicans realized that he is real than it was too late to act . The brilliant election blitzkrieg .
Now we have post election trauma and hysteria which is coming from both sides and will not last very long .
I am sorry to see the ‘ignore commentor’ button. If you don’t want to read someone’s comment, why not just skip over it? It is a sorry reflection on the divisions that have been created in this country over the last few years; where apparently some people do not even want to acknowledge that other people even exist; they are effectively ‘wiped’ from the screen. I personally view this as beyond dismal; talk about building walls!(and this is within one small community).
Alan
Polish thoughts .